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Post by musik on May 23, 2020 21:57:20 GMT
Simple question,
if a patient in England is in the need of antiobiotics, a certain operation, an amputation, insulin or whatever, just to survive - can this be forced on the patient, or do you apply passive euthanasia just like Sweden?
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Post by musik on May 28, 2020 8:31:50 GMT
Are you entitled to refuse treatment?
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Post by bathstoke on May 28, 2020 9:52:55 GMT
I guess it’s down to mental capacity. Whether one is deemed to have the faculties to decide.
I mean, there are obviously people on this board who don’t know their @&$e from their elbow🍑💪🏼
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Post by redstriper on May 28, 2020 10:06:34 GMT
If you need any form of treatment your consent is required - if you have the capacity to give it.
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Post by followyoudown on May 28, 2020 10:37:51 GMT
If you need any form of treatment your consent is required - if you have the capacity to give it. Correct and you can also leave written instructions to say what should or shouldn't be done even if you are incapacitated mostly they are just DNR orders. |
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Post by yeokel on May 28, 2020 13:51:54 GMT
If you need any form of treatment your consent is required - if you have the capacity to give it. It can be dangerous if they stick too rigidly to that ‘rule’. A couple of years ago I began developing a fever and sickness. I got worse as the day went on and got a very high temperature and a lot of disorientation. My wife kept telling me I should go to hospital or call an ambulance but me, being the man I am, told her not to be so daft and that I’d be OK by the morning. Eventually she called 111, explained the situation and requested an ambulance or a doctor visit (by this time I was fairly delirious and talking all sorts of nonsense). The 111 people insisted on talking to me (as I was still conscious) and started asking me if I thought I needed an ambulance, etc. I, of course, said no and that I’d be ok in the morning although it must have been obvious to them I was in no state to hold that conversation. Despite my wife’s pleading with them that I didn’t know what the hell I was saying, they wouldn’t send one without my consent. Eventually, my youngest daughter called 111 and, in much stronger terms than my wife would have used, explained the situation and demanded an ambulance. I was kind of slipping in and out of consciousness by now. Long story short, I got to hospital in an ambulance, was diagnosed immediately with Sepsis and my wife & daughter were told it might be 50/50 if I made it through the night or not. As it happens, after what seemed like many gallons of antibiotics being pumped in to me, I made it and am here to tell the tale that sometimes these medical folk on the end of a phone need to have the facts of life explained to them in the most Anglo-Saxon terms before they will take whatever is clearly the appropriate course of action. I'll still be out tonight at 8pm giving the NHS the clap. |
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Post by yeokel on May 28, 2020 14:43:14 GMT
It can be dangerous if they stick too rigidly to that ‘rule’. A couple of years ago I began developing a fever and sickness. I got worse as the day went on and got a very high temperature and a lot of disorientation. My wife kept telling me I should go to hospital or call an ambulance but me, being the man I am, told her not to be so daft and that I’d be OK by the morning. Eventually she called 111, explained the situation and requested an ambulance or a doctor visit (by this time I was fairly delirious and talking all sorts of nonsense). The 111 people insisted on talking to me (as I was still conscious) and started asking me if I thought I needed an ambulance, etc. I, of course, said no and that I’d be ok in the morning although it must have been obvious to them I was in no state to hold that conversation. Despite my wife’s pleading with them that I didn’t know what the hell I was saying, they wouldn’t send one without my consent. Eventually, my youngest daughter called 111 and, in much stronger terms than my wife would have used, explained the situation and demanded an ambulance. I was kind of slipping in and out of consciousness by now. Long story short, I got to hospital in an ambulance, was diagnosed immediately with Sepsis and my wife & daughter were told it might be 50/50 if I made it through the night or not. As it happens, after what seemed like many gallons of antibiotics being pumped in to me, I made it and am here to tell the tale that sometimes these medical folk on the end of a phone need to have the facts of life explained to them in the most Anglo-Saxon terms before they will take whatever is clearly the appropriate course of action. I'll still be out tonight at 8pm giving the NHS the clap. I'm very glad you made it! The story is a copy of my mother's in a way. She refused an ambulance, but I called the emergency during my visit. They found out fever 40°C, a life threatening infection, diabetes and long gone cancer! Now 12 years later. She battled and survived it all. I'm very happy for all of us  |
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Post by musik on May 28, 2020 14:44:33 GMT
If you need any form of treatment your consent is required - if you have the capacity to give it. It can be dangerous if they stick too rigidly to that ‘rule’. A couple of years ago I began developing a fever and sickness. I got worse as the day went on and got a very high temperature and a lot of disorientation. My wife kept telling me I should go to hospital or call an ambulance but me, being the man I am, told her not to be so daft and that I’d be OK by the morning. Eventually she called 111, explained the situation and requested an ambulance or a doctor visit (by this time I was fairly delirious and talking all sorts of nonsense). The 111 people insisted on talking to me (as I was still conscious) and started asking me if I thought I needed an ambulance, etc. I, of course, said no and that I’d be ok in the morning although it must have been obvious to them I was in no state to hold that conversation. Despite my wife’s pleading with them that I didn’t know what the hell I was saying, they wouldn’t send one without my consent. Eventually, my youngest daughter called 111 and, in much stronger terms than my wife would have used, explained the situation and demanded an ambulance. I was kind of slipping in and out of consciousness by now. Long story short, I got to hospital in an ambulance, was diagnosed immediately with Sepsis and my wife & daughter were told it might be 50/50 if I made it through the night or not. As it happens, after what seemed like many gallons of antibiotics being pumped in to me, I made it and am here to tell the tale that sometimes these medical folk on the end of a phone need to have the facts of life explained to them in the most Anglo-Saxon terms before they will take whatever is clearly the appropriate course of action. I'll still be out tonight at 8pm giving the NHS the clap. I'm very glad you made it! The story is a copy of my mother's in a way. She refused an ambulance, but I called the emergency during my visit. They found out fever 40°C, a life threatening infection, diabetes and long gone cancer! Now 12 years later. She battled and survived it all. |
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Post by elystokie on May 28, 2020 15:00:20 GMT
I don't know the details, I was too busy with my mum that was dying, but in the next bed to her at the hospital there was a woman that had 'given up', they had all her family around for one last visit, all were aware of her decision and they bought in a priest/vicar during her final hours.
I personally thought it somewhat insensitive to do that whilst my mum was fighting for her life in the next bed but at the time felt there was little I could do about it without upsetting people that really didn't need any further upsetting.
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Post by bathstoke on May 28, 2020 15:03:21 GMT
If you need any form of treatment your consent is required - if you have the capacity to give it. I'll still be out tonight at 8pm giving the NHS the clap. I see what you did there👏🏼 |
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Post by harryburrows on May 28, 2020 15:18:03 GMT
I sat with my dad during his remaining hours , his morphine drip was monitored constantly by the doctors . They warned me earlier he had 12 hours to live and bang on 3 am he took his last breath . I asked the question about the morphine but was told that it never happens in the NHS . I didn't believe him and to this day I think they helped him along .
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Post by elystokie on May 28, 2020 16:32:47 GMT
I sat with my dad during his remaining hours , his morphine drip was monitored constantly by the doctors . They warned me earlier he had 12 hours to live and bang on 3 am he took his last breath . I asked the question about the morphine but was told that it never happens in the NHS . I didn't believe him and to this day I think they helped him along . I sat with my mum and after assuring me less than 2 weeks earlier she wasn't in danger of dying they doped her up to the eyeballs and switched off the respirator thing, she was in so much pain I think she was glad to go tbh. What I disagreed with most and sometimes wish I'd been more insistent about is them keeping her there when she wanted to go home, their argument being she wouldn't make it, it was fairly clear by then she was dying, I'd rather she went thinking she was on her way home than knowing she'd never see the place she loved again. |
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Post by musik on May 28, 2020 21:49:17 GMT
Would you prefer a world where every treatment were forced on you?
Respirator for years to come when you were half brain dead?
Why not?
And what's your opinion on Cryonics? Be put to -196°C after you're dead.
🤔
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Post by musik on Jun 10, 2020 22:09:08 GMT
My Grandad died of passive Euthanasia.
He stopped eating and drinking and noone forced him.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jun 10, 2020 22:11:42 GMT
My Grandad died of passive Euthanasia. He stopped eating and drinking and noone forced him. Same here Musik. |
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Post by NassauDave on Jun 11, 2020 22:43:54 GMT
Otherwise known as a Port Vale season ticket.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2020 22:52:58 GMT
Would you prefer a world where every treatment were forced on you? Respirator for years to come when you were half brain dead? Why not? And what's your opinion on Cryonics? Be put to -196°C after you're dead. 🤔 Cryonics? Be put to -196°C after you're dead.. Yes, that would be good... |
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Post by musik on Jun 11, 2020 22:58:08 GMT
Would you prefer a world where every treatment were forced on you? Respirator for years to come when you were half brain dead? Why not? And what's your opinion on Cryonics? Be put to -196°C after you're dead. 🤔 Cryonics? Be put to -196°C after you're dead.. Yes, that would be good... It costs a lot. Question is: if there's a soul, where does it go? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2020 23:04:38 GMT
Cryonics? Be put to -196°C after you're dead.. Yes, that would be good... It costs a lot. Question is: if there's a soul, where does it go? Who know's, but if i could wake up many moons from now it would be good, with my iphone 6s in hand of course. |
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Post by musik on Jun 12, 2020 11:59:07 GMT
It costs a lot. Question is: if there's a soul, where does it go? Who know's, but if i could wake up many moons from now it would be good, with my iphone 6s in hand of course. How will the Earth be like in 2200? |
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Post by Orbs on Jun 12, 2020 12:30:52 GMT
Who know's, but if i could wake up many moons from now it would be good, with my iphone 6s in hand of course. How will the Earth be like in 2200? How much do you pay for your acid in Sweden Musik? Is it as expensive as the beer?  |
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Post by vokeswagen on Jun 12, 2020 16:42:56 GMT
Saw the thread title and assumed this was about season ticket renewal. Where do I go for that?  |
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Post by musik on Jun 12, 2020 16:55:29 GMT
How will the Earth be like in 2200? How much do you pay for your acid in Sweden Musik? Is it as expensive as the beer? No user, no idea. Much more expensive than beer, I'd reckon. |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jun 12, 2020 16:58:55 GMT
Musik I worked in Jankopping a year or two back, I was astonished at the price of beer. There’s no way acid is that much 🤣
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Post by desman2 on Jun 13, 2020 19:14:41 GMT
If you need any form of treatment your consent is required - if you have the capacity to give it. Not quite true. A person who is unconcious but treatable cant give consent. They maybe admitted alone and unless they have a Do Not resuscitate form the medics have an obligation to treat. It's part of my job on an ambulance. It's illegal to resuscitate a person with a DNAR form just as its negligent not to treat someone who dosnt have one. Consent has to be given for invasive treatment and can under certain circumstances be given by NOK. |
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Post by musik on Jun 22, 2020 4:03:51 GMT
Now I know. In Sweden it's allowed to refuse treatment according to our first law of Health and sickness. It could be wise to have your wish written down.
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Post by musik on Jun 22, 2020 4:43:13 GMT
I will have the paper to refuse life suffering extending treatment with me all the time.
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Post by musik on Jun 22, 2020 5:27:15 GMT
Yana Litinska made a doctoral thesis called "Assessing capacity to decide on medical treatment: on human rights and the use of medical knowledge in the laws of Russia, England and Sweden".
In Sweden every person has a total right to refuse treatment EVEN if the patient due to physical or mental disabilities doesn't have an understanding of what the treatment would mean.
Totally different from England and Russia.
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