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Post by salopstick on Feb 16, 2023 6:40:22 GMT
Yes, I think Corbyn was radical....but when he became leader, had responsibility, he changed his mind on the biggest issue in UK politics, possibly since the Second World War....who governs Britain....he went for the conformist view,( credit to Corbyn he does usually say what he believes) rather than his actual conviction of the undemocratic EU. Corbyn v Johnson on the EU....I think the working class would have backed Corbyn. Never mind. I think you and Salop missed what he was trying to do. The peoples vote was led by Starmer and the other Labour right wingers. Corbyn never stood a chance. Sadly some of you on here fell for it. I didn’t miss anything. He tried to get out of brexit to appease the plp He should have stood up in parliament and said the people have spoken. Let’s get brexit done Not helped the brexiteers thwart it. That threw his own manifesto under the bus
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Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 16, 2023 6:46:54 GMT
The stain on the Labour Party under Corbyn being put into Special Measures due to Anti Semitism will take a long time to remove The stain of the Labour Party under Starmer not actively supporting Striking Workers is equally hideous I do not believe for one second that Corbyn is Anti Semitic but he is Anti Zionist, but they are two different things entirely. His failing is that due to his Anti Zionist thinking he failed to control Anti Semites within the Labour Party. br] It’s ok the Labour Party is a perfectly safe space for Jews now, hooray for Starmer. Apart from the dozens of socialist Jews already expelled/suspended of course……
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Post by cobhamstokey on Feb 16, 2023 7:03:30 GMT
The stain on the Labour Party under Corbyn being put into Special Measures due to Anti Semitism will take a long time to remove The stain of the Labour Party under Starmer not actively supporting Striking Workers is equally hideous I do not believe for one second that Corbyn is Anti Semitic but he is Anti Zionist, but they are two different things entirely. His failing is that due to his Anti Zionist thinking he failed to control Anti Semites within the Labour Party. br] It’s ok the Labour Party is a perfectly safe space for Jews now, hooray for Starmer. Apart from the dozens of socialist Jews already expelled/suspended of course…… I don’t think stories like this ever helped Corbyn’s cases regardless of whether there was a spin put on them www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/opinion/letters/18139917.letters-jeremy-corbyn-attended-pro-ira-meetings-rallies-making-speeches-supporting-ira/
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Post by thevoid on Feb 16, 2023 7:17:32 GMT
As one of the comments in that article (from three years ago) states: "The people of the UK know that Corbyn has been seen far too many times in the company of our enemies for this to be a case of "no smoke without fire".. That is why he is now toxic and is why he was roundly rejected last month." Imagine the French electing in a PM who had expressed sympathy for Corsican terrorists who had targeted symbols of the French state, or the Spanish voting in someone caught hobnobbing at an ETA funeral? It just wouldn't happen. And no smears here- Corbyn was pally with the IRA. It's well documented. His non committal over Brexit until- what was it, a week before the Election where he abandoned his views on the matter also showed him to be weak.
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Post by thevoid on Feb 16, 2023 7:20:42 GMT
Islington? I thought he was MP for The Bogside
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Feb 16, 2023 7:30:43 GMT
The stain on the Labour Party under Corbyn being put into Special Measures due to Anti Semitism will take a long time to remove The stain of the Labour Party under Starmer not actively supporting Striking Workers is equally hideous I do not believe for one second that Corbyn is Anti Semitic but he is Anti Zionist, but they are two different things entirely. His failing is that due to his Anti Zionist thinking he failed to control Anti Semites within the Labour Party. br] It’s ok the Labour Party is a perfectly safe space for Jews now, hooray for Starmer. Apart from the dozens of socialist Jews already expelled/suspended of course…… Sadly there are many, including some on here right now who are simply too lazy to dig for the truth. It's not difficult to find the facts it really isn't.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Feb 16, 2023 7:36:17 GMT
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Feb 16, 2023 7:37:52 GMT
I think you and Salop missed what he was trying to do. The peoples vote was led by Starmer and the other Labour right wingers. Corbyn never stood a chance. Sadly some of you on here fell for it. I didn’t miss anything. He tried to get out of brexit to appease the plp He should have stood up in parliament and said the people have spoken. Let’s get brexit done Not helped the brexiteers thwart it. That threw his own manifesto under the bus I'm afraid you did mate.
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Feb 16, 2023 7:41:36 GMT
I must be missing the connection but what does this clip have to do with the decision to de-select the biggest stain on the Labour Party in most peoples lifetime?
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Feb 16, 2023 7:41:38 GMT
The stain on the Labour Party under Corbyn being put into Special Measures due to Anti Semitism will take a long time to remove The stain of the Labour Party under Starmer not actively supporting Striking Workers is equally hideous I do not believe for one second that Corbyn is Anti Semitic but he is Anti Zionist, but they are two different things entirely. His failing is that due to his Anti Zionist thinking he failed to control Anti Semites within the Labour Party. br] It’s ok the Labour Party is a perfectly safe space for Jews now, hooray for Starmer. Apart from the dozens of socialist Jews already expelled/suspended of course……
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Feb 16, 2023 7:42:45 GMT
I must be missing the connection but what does this clip have to do with the decision to de-select the biggest stain on the Labour Party in most peoples lifetime? It's all about duplicity, and the smearing of a decent man.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 16, 2023 8:13:05 GMT
This is a Starmer thread and I’m personally not interested in revisiting the Corbyn “is he is he a terrorist sympathiser” debate, it’s all in the Corbyn thread and has been done to death if people want to look at it. The only relevance this thread has to Corbyn is around Starmer’s factionalism and duplicity not just in the way he’s treated Corbyn but many other party members including dozen of Jews. That and the continued weaponisation of antisemitism for political gain which does nothing to protect Jews in any way shape or form…….
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 16, 2023 8:25:19 GMT
Yes, I think Corbyn was radical....but when he became leader, had responsibility, he changed his mind on the biggest issue in UK politics, possibly since the Second World War....who governs Britain....he went for the conformist view,( credit to Corbyn he does usually say what he believes) rather than his actual conviction of the undemocratic EU. Corbyn v Johnson on the EU....I think the working class would have backed Corbyn. Never mind. Big John I think you are misremembering or reinventing history In the 2016 Referendum 186 of the 196 Labour MPs declared they would campaign to remain in EU. Corbyn although Leader of the Party was simply not in a position to carry his Party to enter the 2019 Election on an outright Pro Brexit Manifesto Here is what the 2019 Labour Party Manifesto actually said they would do on Brexit if Elected Labour would rip up Boris Johnson’s Brexit deal, negotiate a new one with the EU within three months, and then put the deal to a referendum within six months of coming to power. The referendum would not be advisory but “legally binding”. A deal would involve a “comprehensive” UK-wide customs arrangement with the EU; “close alignment with the single market”, and “dynamic alignment” on workers’ rights and the environment which guarantees keeping pace with any future EU protections “as a minimum”. Under Labour, the UK would also continue to participate in the EU funding programmes on science and environment and scrap Operation Yellowhammer contingency planning. Interestingly Corbyn himself refused to say if he would campaign for or against Brexit in a second Referendum The alternative The Conservative Party presented was Boris Johnson's Oven Ready Turkey Deal You can decide which would have been a better outcome Probably the most ridiculous policy I've ever heard on the major issue of the day, going into an an election ( although I admit I have not read many of Screaming Lord Sutch's policies). It was Starmer's policy, but therein lies the problem....it made Corbyn look evasive and took away from him the one thing where he could be passionate , consistent, clear and in line with Labour's traditional vote. Ridiculous, a leader who doesn't actually agree with the policy on the main issue and a policy that is out of sync with the Party's core vote. What it says is" Vote for us and we'll take you straight back into the EU"....(and obviously, in any case, this idea of Labour negotiating a deal begs many questions .....and is just a diversion).....which amounts to the Labour Party trying to deceive its core vote ( by treating them as though they are " thick"). .............. The millionaire Left wing Socialist Lady Nugee would vote against her party's own negotiated deal! “If you were to win a General Election, you would go to Europe, try and get a better deal, have a referendum where Remain is an option,” asked Bruce. “Would you then be campaigning against your own deal, to Remain against your own deal you negotiated? Or would you be actually saying, no support our deal?' The Islington South MP responded that she would campaign to remain even if a deal with Brussels was done. uk.news.yahoo.com/emily-thornberry-criticised-after-saying-labour-would-negotiate-new-brexit-deal-then-vote-against-it-133049236.htmlIt certainly did the trick at the election.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Feb 16, 2023 8:31:34 GMT
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Post by gawa on Feb 16, 2023 10:15:15 GMT
It probably didn't help his case in the slightest. But then neither does the fact that those who know nothing about NI think IRA = bad, British Army = good. Catholics were treated as second class citizens for decades in Northern Ireland with little human rights compared to those from protestant communities. Alot of the troubles and violence started in NI after peaceful protests from catholics resulted in them being attacked by loyalists and offered no protection from the RUC, if anything the RUC joined in on the attacks. Then the British army came in, something many catholics were happy about as they believed this would help bring peace. But then the soldiers also killed innocent people and kids and this is when the violence and IRA presence really ramped up. While Thatcher added fuel to the fire and victim blamed and made matters worse. At least people like corbyn could see past the politics and see the people as humans and the impacts the devastation was causing. That doesn't make him a terrorist sympathiser. Just like him holding Israel to account for their crimes against palestine doesn't make him one either. And of course there were some bad people in the IRA too and they also committed unforgiveable crimes just like the British army did. But the world needs people willing to sit down with those being oppressed and to listen to them and to create peaceful dialogue. That's how you fix issues in all walks of life, through communication. It doesn't make you a bad person. Something which the world could do alot more with right now too. Not people pointing fingers at China and Russia while sending tanks and missiles to Ukraine as Ukrainian and Russian deaths mount up day after day. Unfortunately our current world leaders would rather add fuel to the fire and paint one side good and one side bad rather than see the humans and people impacted by their political games.
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Post by wannabee on Feb 16, 2023 11:13:02 GMT
It probably didn't help his case in the slightest. But then neither does the fact that those who know nothing about NI think IRA = bad, British Army = good. Catholics were treated as second class citizens for decades in Northern Ireland with little human rights compared to those from protestant communities. Alot of the troubles and violence started in NI after peaceful protests from catholics resulted in them being attacked by loyalists and offered no protection from the RUC, if anything the RUC joined in on the attacks. Then the British army came in, something many catholics were happy about as they believed this would help bring peace. But then the soldiers also killed innocent people and kids and this is when the violence and IRA presence really ramped up. While Thatcher added fuel to the fire and victim blamed and made matters worse. At least people like corbyn could see past the politics and see the people as humans and the impacts the devastation was causing. That doesn't make him a terrorist sympathiser. Just like him holding Israel to account for their crimes against palestine doesn't make him one either. And of course there were some bad people in the IRA too and they also committed unforgiveable crimes just like the British army did. But the world needs people willing to sit down with those being oppressed and to listen to them and to create peaceful dialogue. That's how you fix issues in all walks of life, through communication. It doesn't make you a bad person. Something which the world could do alot more with right now too. Not people pointing fingers at China and Russia while sending tanks and missiles to Ukraine as Ukrainian and Russian deaths mount up day after day. Unfortunately our current world leaders would rather add fuel to the fire and paint one side good and one side bad rather than see the humans and people impacted by their political games. About as accurate a summary of the situation as I have seen and this is from someone living in NI and coming from a Unionist background, well done.
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Post by dutchstokie on Feb 16, 2023 12:05:55 GMT
It’s ok the Labour Party is a perfectly safe space for Jews now, hooray for Starmer. Apart from the dozens of socialist Jews already expelled/suspended of course…… Formerly known as "Roy Smith' by the looks of it....... 'kin state of it
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Post by wannabee on Feb 16, 2023 12:16:40 GMT
The stain on the Labour Party under Corbyn being put into Special Measures due to Anti Semitism will take a long time to remove The stain of the Labour Party under Starmer not actively supporting Striking Workers is equally hideous I do not believe for one second that Corbyn is Anti Semitic but he is Anti Zionist, but they are two different things entirely. His failing is that due to his Anti Zionist thinking he failed to control Anti Semites within the Labour Party. br] It’s ok the Labour Party is a perfectly safe space for Jews now, hooray for Starmer. Apart from the dozens of socialist Jews already expelled/suspended of course…… Just to make my position clear the EHRC found during Corbyn's tenure as Leader an unwillingness from Labour Leadership to tackle complaints of Anti Semitism effectively. I accept the findings of the EHRC do you? Anti Corbyn supporters within the Labour Party including Starmer used it as a stick to beat Corbyn although after 2019 Election his time was up anyway Starmer grandstanding commissioned the Forde Report hoping to reinforce the Anti Corbyn rhetoric. Among other things the Forde found was a depressingly factionalised Party of which both sides had weaponised Anti Semitism to suit their Agenda The Forde conclusions of course did not suit Starmer and the new Establishment so they suppressed the Report. Those Jewish Corbyn supporters within the Labour Party mostly from the Anti Zionist Jewish Voice for Labour JVL then began to leak the Forde Report This did not sit well with the new Establishment Agenda so they had to be purged from the Party Chief amongst those making allegations against members of JVL were members of rival Zionist Jewish Labour Movement. JLM The leading lights in this group are Margaret Hodge Barking MP and Ruth Smeeth who cares deeply about Minority Groups but only the ones she supports This rewriting of history and facts within Labour is quite Orwellian
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Feb 16, 2023 12:19:29 GMT
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Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 16, 2023 12:39:34 GMT
It’s ok the Labour Party is a perfectly safe space for Jews now, hooray for Starmer. Apart from the dozens of socialist Jews already expelled/suspended of course…… Just to make my position clear the EHRC found during Corbyn's tenure as Leader an unwillingness from Labour Leadership to tackle complaints of Anti Semitism effectively. I accept the findings of the EHRC do you? Anti Corbyn supporters within the Labour Party including Starmer used it as a stick to beat Corbyn although after 2019 Election his time was up anyway Starmer grandstanding commissioned the Forde Report hoping to reinforce the Anti Corbyn rhetoric. Among other things the Forde found was a depressingly factionalised Party of which both sides had weaponised Anti Semitism to suit their Agenda The Forde conclusions of course did not suit Starmer and the new Establishment so they suppressed the Report. Those Jewish Corbyn supporters within the Labour Party mostly from the Anti Zionist Jewish Voice for Labour JVL then began to leak the Forde Report This did not sit well with the new Establishment Agenda so they had to be purged from the Party Chief amongst those making allegations against members of JVL were members of rival Zionist Jewish Labour Movement. JLM The leading lights in this group are Margaret Hodge Barking MP and Ruth Smeeth who cares deeply about Minority Groups but only the ones she supports This rewriting of history and facts within Labour is quite Orwellian I think a more pertinent question is, "Is the EHRC truly independent and fit for purpose?" Very little is written about this but my answer would be "I don't think it is" When you have Islamophobe's like Trevor Phillips chairing an organisation that later refused to refer the Tories and the clear evidence of anti-Muslim behaviour within the party (ignoring the Muslim Council of Britain's presented evidence) then I question the validity of said organisation. They actually recommended that the Tory Party investigated themselves! David Isaac the former chair has himself cast serious doubts over the EHRC when it comes to Islamophobia and more recently LGBTQ issues, it's a public body funded by the state with links to individuals that have more than questionable agendas. Of course some of the revelations around antisemitism in the report were correct, I'm certainly not denying there was/is no anti-Jewish racism in the Labour Party. But I'm absolutely saying that it was a tiny tiny minority and that the scale was exaggerated to cause maximum damage to the Corbyn's leadership, I think you'd have to be naive, deaf or blind to think otherwise.......
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Feb 16, 2023 13:02:02 GMT
Just to make my position clear the EHRC found during Corbyn's tenure as Leader an unwillingness from Labour Leadership to tackle complaints of Anti Semitism effectively. I accept the findings of the EHRC do you? Anti Corbyn supporters within the Labour Party including Starmer used it as a stick to beat Corbyn although after 2019 Election his time was up anyway Starmer grandstanding commissioned the Forde Report hoping to reinforce the Anti Corbyn rhetoric. Among other things the Forde found was a depressingly factionalised Party of which both sides had weaponised Anti Semitism to suit their Agenda The Forde conclusions of course did not suit Starmer and the new Establishment so they suppressed the Report. Those Jewish Corbyn supporters within the Labour Party mostly from the Anti Zionist Jewish Voice for Labour JVL then began to leak the Forde Report This did not sit well with the new Establishment Agenda so they had to be purged from the Party Chief amongst those making allegations against members of JVL were members of rival Zionist Jewish Labour Movement. JLM The leading lights in this group are Margaret Hodge Barking MP and Ruth Smeeth who cares deeply about Minority Groups but only the ones she supports This rewriting of history and facts within Labour is quite Orwellian I think a pertinent question is, "Is the EHRC truly independent and fit for purpose?" Very little is written about this but my answer would be "I don't think it is" When you have Islamophobe's like Trevor Phillips chairing an organisation that later refused to refer the Tories and the clear evidence of anti-Muslim behaviour within the party (ignoring the Muslim Council of Britain's presented evidence) then I question the validity of said organisation. They actually recommended that the Tory Party investigated themselves! David Isaac the former chair has himself cast serious doubts over the EHRC when it comes to Islamophobia and more recently LGBTQ issues, it's a public body funded by the state with links to individuals that have more than questionable agendas. Of course some of the revelations around antisemitism in the report were correct, I'm certainly not denying there was/is no anti-Jewish racism in the Labour Party. But I'm absolutely saying that it was a tiny tiny minority and that the scale was exaggerated to cause maximum damage to the Corbyn's leadership, I think you'd have to be naive, deaf or blind to think otherwise....... Whilst that's probably all accurate, this level of navel-gazing doesn't really matter when it comes to your average voter in the street and the electability or otherwise of potential PMs and the party they represent. No-one was ever going to elect Corbyn to No 10 for all the reasons that have been gone over numerous times. He was seen as not PM material, had a whole load of historical baggage and the anti-semitism thing basically made the Labour Party look unpleasant. The Brexit argument is nonsense too. Approximately two thirds of Labour supporters voted Remain; he could never lead a party with a different position to the majority of its supporters! It doesn't matter that a lot of what Corbyn said has since proven to be fairly accurate, or that the social democratic policies he wanted to put in place may well have helped avoid much of the mess the country is currently in, that doesn't alter the point about his unelectability at the time, sadly. More of a reflection of the electorate and the press influence on it but that's the reality. Starmer's job is to get Labour electable first and foremost, and then to get them elected. If that means 'offing' the people who did the opposite (however 'unfair' that conclusion might seem in retrospect) then he's doing his job. What he does in power, if he ever gets there, is another matter.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 16, 2023 13:20:08 GMT
I think a pertinent question is, "Is the EHRC truly independent and fit for purpose?" Very little is written about this but my answer would be "I don't think it is" When you have Islamophobe's like Trevor Phillips chairing an organisation that later refused to refer the Tories and the clear evidence of anti-Muslim behaviour within the party (ignoring the Muslim Council of Britain's presented evidence) then I question the validity of said organisation. They actually recommended that the Tory Party investigated themselves! David Isaac the former chair has himself cast serious doubts over the EHRC when it comes to Islamophobia and more recently LGBTQ issues, it's a public body funded by the state with links to individuals that have more than questionable agendas. Of course some of the revelations around antisemitism in the report were correct, I'm certainly not denying there was/is no anti-Jewish racism in the Labour Party. But I'm absolutely saying that it was a tiny tiny minority and that the scale was exaggerated to cause maximum damage to the Corbyn's leadership, I think you'd have to be naive, deaf or blind to think otherwise....... Whilst that's probably all accurate, this level of navel-gazing doesn't really matter when it comes to your average voter in the street and the electability or otherwise of potential PMs and the party they represent. No-one was ever going to elect Corbyn to No 10 for all the reasons that have been gone over numerous times. He was seen as not PM material, had a whole load of historical baggage and the anti-semitism thing basically made the Labour Party look unpleasant. The Brexit argument is nonsense too. Approximately two thirds of Labour supporters voted Remain; he could never lead a party with a different position to the majority of its supporters! It doesn't matter that a lot of what Corbyn said has since proven to be fairly accurate, or that the social democratic policies he wanted to put in place may well have helped avoid much of the mess the country is currently in, that doesn't alter the point about his unelectability at the time, sadly. More of a reflection of the electorate and the press influence on it but that's the reality. Starmer's job is to get Labour electable first and foremost, and then to get them elected. If that means 'offing' the people who did the opposite (however 'unfair' that conclusion might seem in retrospect) then he's doing his job. What he does in power, if he ever gets there, is another matter. I wasn't talking about the average voter on the street I was speaking for myself on a message board. It will be interesting to see if that average voter on the street puts an x in a box for Labour come the election once they see Starmer under scrutiny when all the Corbyn shite is ramped up and levelled at him day after day. Time will tell..........
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Feb 16, 2023 13:32:57 GMT
I must be missing the connection but what does this clip have to do with the decision to de-select the biggest stain on the Labour Party in most peoples lifetime? It's all about duplicity, and the smearing of a decent man. Righto. I would argue that a decent man wouldn't have imposed his own version of political leadership that results in his party being placed under special measures. A decent man wouldn't write a forward describing a well documented, anti-semtic book as being 'a great tome'. Nor would a decent man look at a deeply anti-semitic mural and query why it would need to be removed. The arrogance of the man which he 'sincerely regrets' is only matched by his own completely blinkered approach in blaming everyone but himself and making it all about him. He was a complete stain on the party and on British politics; he is now free of his 'duplicitous and smearing' successor to pursue his own unique path as an independent. Interestingly, disgusting and disgraceful are the two words I would be happy to describe him as. As someone who technically voted for him twice as the lesser of two evils (although 2019 was based more on his commitment to a confirmatory Brexit vote) the relief that this man never held the keys to No.10 serves as a great relief even with what we have had to live through. There are plenty of his ex shadow front bench within the Labour Party, of which, one is doing her utmost to sow division with every interview she does. I'm assuming she's just as duplicitous, or does it only work one way? How he, Johnson and ever Farage have this cult like hold over so many never fails to amaze. Fortunately the electorate as a populous will be presented with a much improved offering at the next election.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Feb 16, 2023 13:37:57 GMT
It's all about duplicity, and the smearing of a decent man. Righto. I would argue that a decent man wouldn't have imposed his own version of political leadership that results in his party being placed under special measures. A decent man wouldn't write a forward describing a well documented, anti-semtic book as being 'a great tome'. Nor would a decent man look at a deeply anti-semitic mural and query why it would need to be removed. The arrogance of the man which he 'sincerely regrets' is only matched by his own completely blinkered approach in blaming everyone but himself and making it all about him. He was a complete stain on the party and on British politics; he is now free of his 'duplicitous and smearing' successor to pursue his own unique path as an independent. Interestingly, disgusting and disgraceful are the two words I would be happy to describe him as. As someone who technically voted for him twice as the lesser of two evils (although 2019 was based more on his commitment to a confirmatory Brexit vote) the relief that this man never held the keys to No.10 serves as a great relief even with what we have had to live through. There are plenty of his ex shadow front bench within the Labour Party, of which, one is doing her utmost to sow division with every interview she does. I'm assuming she's just as duplicitous, or does it only work one way? How he, Johnson and ever Farage have this cult like hold over so many never fails to amaze. Fortunately the electorate as a populous will be presented with a much improved offering at the next election. I'd suggest you do your research and you will discover it was all a scam. I'd suggest you also avoid the whatabouttery as the Centrists destroyed him from within.
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Post by thevoid on Feb 16, 2023 14:08:33 GMT
Whilst that's probably all accurate, this level of navel-gazing doesn't really matter when it comes to your average voter in the street and the electability or otherwise of potential PMs and the party they represent. No-one was ever going to elect Corbyn to No 10 for all the reasons that have been gone over numerous times. He was seen as not PM material, had a whole load of historical baggage and the anti-semitism thing basically made the Labour Party look unpleasant. The Brexit argument is nonsense too. Approximately two thirds of Labour supporters voted Remain; he could never lead a party with a different position to the majority of its supporters! It doesn't matter that a lot of what Corbyn said has since proven to be fairly accurate, or that the social democratic policies he wanted to put in place may well have helped avoid much of the mess the country is currently in, that doesn't alter the point about his unelectability at the time, sadly. More of a reflection of the electorate and the press influence on it but that's the reality. Starmer's job is to get Labour electable first and foremost, and then to get them elected. If that means 'offing' the people who did the opposite (however 'unfair' that conclusion might seem in retrospect) then he's doing his job. What he does in power, if he ever gets there, is another matter. I wasn't talking about the average voter on the street I was speaking for myself on a message board. It will be interesting to see if that average voter on the street puts an x in a box for Labour come the election once they see Starmer under scrutiny when all the Corbyn shite is ramped up and levelled at him day after day. Time will tell.......... Do you want Labour to win the next election or not?
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Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 16, 2023 14:10:32 GMT
I wasn't talking about the average voter on the street I was speaking for myself on a message board. It will be interesting to see if that average voter on the street puts an x in a box for Labour come the election once they see Starmer under scrutiny when all the Corbyn shite is ramped up and levelled at him day after day. Time will tell.......... Do you want Labour to win the next election or not? If you mean who will I cast my vote for I haven't decided yet, I don't need to either in fairness.........
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Post by wannabee on Feb 16, 2023 14:12:32 GMT
Just to make my position clear the EHRC found during Corbyn's tenure as Leader an unwillingness from Labour Leadership to tackle complaints of Anti Semitism effectively. I accept the findings of the EHRC do you? Anti Corbyn supporters within the Labour Party including Starmer used it as a stick to beat Corbyn although after 2019 Election his time was up anyway Starmer grandstanding commissioned the Forde Report hoping to reinforce the Anti Corbyn rhetoric. Among other things the Forde found was a depressingly factionalised Party of which both sides had weaponised Anti Semitism to suit their Agenda The Forde conclusions of course did not suit Starmer and the new Establishment so they suppressed the Report. Those Jewish Corbyn supporters within the Labour Party mostly from the Anti Zionist Jewish Voice for Labour JVL then began to leak the Forde Report This did not sit well with the new Establishment Agenda so they had to be purged from the Party Chief amongst those making allegations against members of JVL were members of rival Zionist Jewish Labour Movement. JLM The leading lights in this group are Margaret Hodge Barking MP and Ruth Smeeth who cares deeply about Minority Groups but only the ones she supports This rewriting of history and facts within Labour is quite Orwellian I think a more pertinent question is, "Is the EHRC truly independent and fit for purpose?" Very little is written about this but my answer would be "I don't think it is" When you have Islamophobe's like Trevor Phillips chairing an organisation that later refused to refer the Tories and the clear evidence of anti-Muslim behaviour within the party (ignoring the Muslim Council of Britain's presented evidence) then I question the validity of said organisation. They actually recommended that the Tory Party investigated themselves! David Isaac the former chair has himself cast serious doubts over the EHRC when it comes to Islamophobia and more recently LGBTQ issues, it's a public body funded by the state with links to individuals that have more than questionable agendas. Of course some of the revelations around antisemitism in the report were correct, I'm certainly not denying there was/is no anti-Jewish racism in the Labour Party. But I'm absolutely saying that it was a tiny tiny minority and that the scale was exaggerated to cause maximum damage to the Corbyn's leadership, I think you'd have to be naive, deaf or blind to think otherwise....... Is any organisation truly independent of thought or you or I Are you not following the same Trope as Ruth Smeeth or indeed Jeremy Corbyn by saying its a tiny minority? You can't be a little bit pregnant you either are or your not There is certainly merit in your assertion that the EHRC investigation may not have been truly independent when the Chair of the EHRC Rebecca Hilsenrath had to recuse herself from the investigation when it was found her public comments may give the impression she had reached a conclusion before the investigation had even began. But if you dismiss the EHRC Report you must also dismiss the Forde Report surely? There were/are two things in play simultaneously but with different agendas The Zionist JLM whose submissions heavily influenced the EHRC Report and the Anti Zionist JVL in their battle for supremacy Sadly the former seem to have won out There has been a push for many years both here and in US to equate Anti Zionist's as being Anti Semitic which of course is bullshit Then on the other hand you had the Anti Corbyn faction who weaponised the undoubted Anti Semitism in the Labour Party, to what degree is open to question, to undermine his Leadership But as Red says Corbyn was unelectable as PM too much shit had been flung in his direction, justifiable or not and I accept that is not the point of your argument
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Post by thevoid on Feb 16, 2023 14:14:22 GMT
Righto. I would argue that a decent man wouldn't have imposed his own version of political leadership that results in his party being placed under special measures. A decent man wouldn't write a forward describing a well documented, anti-semtic book as being 'a great tome'. Nor would a decent man look at a deeply anti-semitic mural and query why it would need to be removed. The arrogance of the man which he 'sincerely regrets' is only matched by his own completely blinkered approach in blaming everyone but himself and making it all about him. He was a complete stain on the party and on British politics; he is now free of his 'duplicitous and smearing' successor to pursue his own unique path as an independent. Interestingly, disgusting and disgraceful are the two words I would be happy to describe him as. As someone who technically voted for him twice as the lesser of two evils (although 2019 was based more on his commitment to a confirmatory Brexit vote) the relief that this man never held the keys to No.10 serves as a great relief even with what we have had to live through. There are plenty of his ex shadow front bench within the Labour Party, of which, one is doing her utmost to sow division with every interview she does. I'm assuming she's just as duplicitous, or does it only work one way? How he, Johnson and ever Farage have this cult like hold over so many never fails to amaze. Fortunately the electorate as a populous will be presented with a much improved offering at the next election. I'd suggest you do your research and you will discover it was all a scam. I'd suggest you also avoid the whatabouttery as the Centrists destroyed him from within. Interesting that you've liked Prestwich's earlier post about the EHRC which was whataboutery from start to finish...
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Post by OldStokie on Feb 16, 2023 14:16:00 GMT
Never underestimate the Zionists. They're one of the most powerful institutions in the Western World and their tentacles reach into the highest of places. They can be brutal and ruthless and don't give a damn about anything or anyone to achieve their aims... that of preserving their influence in the world. The Zionists in power in Israel now are an abomination of corrupt right-wing extremists and fanatics. But NEVER confuse the Zionists with all those who follow the Jewish faith. The Zionists are the same as IS who have hijacked the Muslim faith to achieve their warped ideological religious fanaticism.
Like myself, Corbyn is anti-Zionist and not anti-Semitic. Starmer and his cronies have weaponised this issue to gain power here in the UK. Which provides food for thought... are he and his cronies part of the Zionist influence?
Having said all that, although I share Corbyn's ideology, I don't think he would have made a good Prime Minister. He has one major, major fault... he's a pacifist and there's no place in today's world for pacifism.
OS.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 16, 2023 14:20:04 GMT
I think a more pertinent question is, "Is the EHRC truly independent and fit for purpose?" Very little is written about this but my answer would be "I don't think it is" When you have Islamophobe's like Trevor Phillips chairing an organisation that later refused to refer the Tories and the clear evidence of anti-Muslim behaviour within the party (ignoring the Muslim Council of Britain's presented evidence) then I question the validity of said organisation. They actually recommended that the Tory Party investigated themselves! David Isaac the former chair has himself cast serious doubts over the EHRC when it comes to Islamophobia and more recently LGBTQ issues, it's a public body funded by the state with links to individuals that have more than questionable agendas. Of course some of the revelations around antisemitism in the report were correct, I'm certainly not denying there was/is no anti-Jewish racism in the Labour Party. But I'm absolutely saying that it was a tiny tiny minority and that the scale was exaggerated to cause maximum damage to the Corbyn's leadership, I think you'd have to be naive, deaf or blind to think otherwise....... Is any organisation truly independent of thought or you or I Are you not following the same Trope as Ruth Smeeth or indeed Jeremy Corbyn by saying its a tiny minority?You can't be a little bit pregnant you either are or your not There is certainly merit in your assertion that the EHRC investigation may not have been truly independent when the Chair of the EHRC Rebecca Hilsenrath had to recuse herself from the investigation when it was found her public comments may give the impression she had reached a conclusion before the investigation had even began. But if you dismiss the EHRC Report you must also dismiss the Forde Report surely? There were/are two things in play simultaneously but with different agendas The Zionist JLM whose submissions heavily influenced the EHRC Report and the Anti Zionist JVL in their battle for supremacy Sadly the former seem to have won out There has been a push for many years both here and in US to equate Anti Zionist's as being Anti Semitic which of course is bullshit Then on the other hand you had the Anti Corbyn faction who weaponised the undoubted Anti Semitism in the Labour Party, to what degree is open to question, to undermine his Leadership But as Red says Corbyn was unelectable as PM too much shit had been flung in his direction, justifiable or not and I accept that is not the point of your argument No I'm following the data.............
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