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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 19, 2024 15:33:53 GMT
Excellent speech by Stephen Flynn. Probably my favourite Westminster MP Gawa How far should devolution go for Scotland and Northern Ireland before it becomes Independendence? Or put it another way which areas of jurisdiction ( defence?) should remain at Westminster, which totally devolved( the rest?)
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Post by Clayton Wood on Jul 19, 2024 15:50:05 GMT
Excellent speech by Stephen Flynn. Probably my favourite Westminster MP Gawa How far should devolution go for Scotland and Northern Ireland before it becomes Independendence? Or put it another way which areas of jurisdiction ( defence?) should remain at Westminster, which totally devolved( the rest?) Or should England be given the vote to jettison all or any of them?
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 19, 2024 16:11:51 GMT
Gawa How far should devolution go for Scotland and Northern Ireland before it becomes Independendence? Or put it another way which areas of jurisdiction ( defence?) should remain at Westminster, which totally devolved( the rest?) Or should England be given the vote to jettison all or any of them? Interesting question Clayton. My initial feeling was that the vote ( a debate would have to be has about WHO " in " England would be eligible to vote) would be to jettison, but now I'm not sure, what do you think?
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Post by mrcoke on Jul 19, 2024 16:45:32 GMT
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Post by gawa on Jul 19, 2024 17:13:44 GMT
Excellent speech by Stephen Flynn. Probably my favourite Westminster MP Gawa How far should devolution go for Scotland and Northern Ireland before it becomes Independendence? Or put it another way which areas of jurisdiction ( defence?) should remain at Westminster, which totally devolved( the rest?) I don't think I'm informed enough to answer that as I'm conflicted on devolution. On one hand I think it removes accountability from government as they use an outdated formula to decide how much money you get and that's it. So if its not enough money it doesn't matter because "labour run wales" or "snp run scotland" automatically get blamed for everything like what happened with the tories. Same goes for the councils of which many times they don't have the budget for the demands and does the government take accountability? Nah its "labour run x council" who bankrupt it. So when you see the same lines played out by government time and time again its an issue as people believe it even though many times the issue is more with centralised government. With that said... my feelings on the tories and Tory lite are well documented and the thought of them having more power is concerning. However at the minute we seem to be at a point where the funding for devolved governments and councils with devolved powers isn't enough. But the blame for all the problems from the media and government is going to those with devolved powers. So they're effectively controlling the purse strings but taking none of the blame. And like Stephen said when it comes to welfare 70% of the powers aren't devolved. But thr government will still blame the devolved parties like in the above instance. "Well why haven't snp scrapped the 2 child benefit cap".... "because we can't, it's not a devolved power" But yeah I'm not informed enough on this to really give an honest opinion on what I personally think is the right amount of devolved powers.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 19, 2024 17:18:13 GMT
Gawa How far should devolution go for Scotland and Northern Ireland before it becomes Independendence? Or put it another way which areas of jurisdiction ( defence?) should remain at Westminster, which totally devolved( the rest?) I don't think I'm informed enough to answer that as I'm conflicted on devolution. On one hand I think it removes accountability from government as they use an outdated formula to decide how much money you get and that's it. So if its not enough money it doesn't matter because "labour run wales" or "snp run scotland" automatically get blamed for everything like what happened with the tories. Same goes for the councils of which many times they don't have the budget for the demands and does the government take accountability? Nah its "labour run x council" who bankrupt it. So when you see the same lines played out by government time and time again its an issue as people believe it even though many times the issue is more with centralised government. With that said... my feelings on the tories and Tory lite are well documented and the thought of them having more power is concerning. However at the minute we seem to be at a point where the funding for devolved governments and councils with devolved powers isn't enough. But the blame for all the problems from the media and government is going to those with devolved powers. So they're effectively controlling the purse strings but taking none of the blame. And like Stephen said when it comes to welfare 70% of the powers aren't devolved. But thr government will still blame the devolved parties like in the above instance. "Well why haven't snp scrapped the 2 child benefit cap".... "because we can't, it's not a devolved power" But yeah I'm not informed enough on this to really give an honest opinion on what I personally think is the right amount of devolved powers. Thanks for that Gawa.....you are probably more informed and thoughtful than most ( by far) imo
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 19, 2024 17:19:55 GMT
Gawa How far should devolution go for Scotland and Northern Ireland before it becomes Independendence? Or put it another way which areas of jurisdiction ( defence?) should remain at Westminster, which totally devolved( the rest?) I don't think I'm informed enough to answer that as I'm conflicted on devolution. On one hand I think it removes accountability from government as they use an outdated formula to decide how much money you get and that's it. So if its not enough money it doesn't matter because "labour run wales" or "snp run scotland" automatically get blamed for everything like what happened with the tories. Same goes for the councils of which many times they don't have the budget for the demands and does the government take accountability? Nah its "labour run x council" who bankrupt it. So when you see the same lines played out by government time and time again its an issue as people believe it even though many times the issue is more with centralised government. With that said... my feelings on the tories and Tory lite are well documented and the thought of them having more power is concerning. However at the minute we seem to be at a point where the funding for devolved governments and councils with devolved powers isn't enough. But the blame for all the problems from the media and government is going to those with devolved powers. So they're effectively controlling the purse strings but taking none of the blame. And like Stephen said when it comes to welfare 70% of the powers aren't devolved. But thr government will still blame the devolved parties like in the above instance. "Well why haven't snp scrapped the 2 child benefit cap".... "because we can't, it's not a devolved power" But yeah I'm not informed enough on this to really give an honest opinion on what I personally think is the right amount of devolved powers. It just seems to me a perennial issue.....if central government doesn't give the regions, different coloured constituencies or devolved governments the resources, they are set up for failure and easy targets to take the blame
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Post by Clayton Wood on Jul 19, 2024 17:59:36 GMT
Or should England be given the vote to jettison all or any of them? Interesting question Clayton. My initial feeling was that the vote ( a debate would have to be has about WHO " in " England would be eligible to vote) would be to jettison, but now I'm not sure, what do you think? Somewhat a tongue in cheek response BJR but becoming less so but still light years away. Salmond said, at the time, that $100 per barrel of Brent Crude, would secure Scotland's future. But times move on and basing your strategy on an oil based economy now looks abhorrent. A whisky and haggis future wouldn't put food on the table. New green technologies are hamstrung by lack of infrastructure investment (it takes up 15 years to connect new wind farms/nuclear to the network). The thinking before the 2024 GE was that Labour needed to win over Scotland (they did, but would have still been handsomely positioned without) to win. The balance of power has shifted. Starmer lauded the Welsh model as one to follow. Since then the wheels came off Welsh Labour with 20mph speed limits and Gethin's dodgy dealings. Plaid know their place and didn't fill the vacuum at the last GE. Fielded 32 candidates and doubled their seats to 4. Imo Wales plays the devolution game to a T. The balance of power remains the same with Wales asking little more and getting it. NI I can't comment on and Gawa has already spoken eloquently on that. Overall the Conservative and Unionist Party is like a dog that has gone off it's hind legs, still barking but dragging it's arse as nobody takes any notice anymore. The rest (LD, Green & Reform) are just noise (unless Labour change the FPTP system - and I'll bear my arse in Burton's window if they advocate PR in any form) The days of whinging Jocks are hopefully put to bed now for a while and the Welsh are well, the Welsh. NI - best leave well alone. The key is the BoE, bank of last resort. Only England have that luxury, plus the FTSE etc. Will the Westminster bubble give us the option, nah, they did that once with Brexit
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 19, 2024 18:13:20 GMT
"Gawa has already spoken eloquently on that" .......are you sure? there's a first for everything I suppose.
I sometimes wonder if , when we are looking for a good " quality of life", " standard of living ", it would actually be better to be a small , self contained nation , at peace with itself, instead of continuing to try to be big boys on the world stage. Are the Nordic countries at the top of the "happiness and contentment " scales , because they are at peace with their size , influence and position in the world.....in other words would Scotland be better off divorcing itself from the UK colonial history?
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Post by wagsastokie on Jul 19, 2024 18:15:36 GMT
"Gawa has already spoken eloquently on that" .......are you sure? there's a first for everything I suppose. I sometimes wonder if , when we are looking for a good " quality of life", " standard of living ", it would actually be better to be a small , self contained nation , at peace with itself, instead of continuing to try to be big boys on the world stage. Are the Nordic countries at the top of the "happiness and contentment " scales , because they are at peace with their size , influence and position in the world.....in other words would Scotland be better off divorcing itself from the UK colonial history? I’m pretty sure England would
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 19, 2024 18:21:00 GMT
Interesting question Clayton. My initial feeling was that the vote ( a debate would have to be has about WHO " in " England would be eligible to vote) would be to jettison, but now I'm not sure, what do you think? Somewhat a tongue in cheek response BJR but becoming less so but still light years away. Salmond said, at the time, that $100 per barrel of Brent Crude, would secure Scotland's future. But times move on and basing your strategy on an oil based economy now looks abhorrent. A whisky and haggis future wouldn't put food on the table. New green technologies are hamstrung by lack of infrastructure investment (it takes up 15 years to connect new wind farms/nuclear to the network). The thinking before the 2024 GE was that Labour needed to win over Scotland (they did, but would have still been handsomely positioned without) to win. The balance of power has shifted. Starmer lauded the Welsh model as one to follow. Since then the wheels came off Welsh Labour with 20mph speed limits and Gethin's dodgy dealings. Plaid know their place and didn't fill the vacuum at the last GE. Fielded 32 candidates and doubled their seats to 4. Imo Wales plays the devolution game to a T. The balance of power remains the same with Wales asking little more and getting it. NI I can't comment on and Gawa has already spoken eloquently on that. Overall the Conservative and Unionist Party is like a dog that has gone off it's hind legs, still barking but dragging it's arse as nobody takes any notice anymore. The rest (LD, Green & Reform) are just noise (unless Labour change the FPTP system - and I'll bear my arse in Burton's window if they advocate PR in any form) The days of whinging Jocks are hopefully put to bed now for a while and the Welsh are well, the Welsh. NI - best leave well alone. The key is the BoE, bank of last resort. Only England have that luxury, plus the FTSE etc. Will the Westminster bubble give us the option, nah, they did that once with Brexit Excellent summary imo
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Post by Clayton Wood on Jul 19, 2024 18:21:05 GMT
"Gawa has already spoken eloquently on that" .......are you sure? there's a first for everything I suppose. I sometimes wonder if , when we are looking for a good " quality of life", " standard of living ", it would actually be better to be a small , self contained nation , at peace with itself, instead of continuing to try to be big boys on the world stage. Are the Nordic countries at the top of the "happiness and contentment " scales , because they are at peace with their size , influence and position in the world.....in other words would Scotland be better off divorcing itself from the UK colonial history? The panacea for Scotland before the 2024 GE was to leave the UK and somehow re-join the EU on it's own terms. The EU, imo, would want to know how much of their tiger oil economy they could afford to pay in. But as I said before times change. Swapping the Barnett formula for some unknown arrangement may not appeal now. Starmer has bigger fish to fry than placating a withered SNP.
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Post by wannabee on Jul 19, 2024 19:52:18 GMT
I don't think I'm informed enough to answer that as I'm conflicted on devolution. On one hand I think it removes accountability from government as they use an outdated formula to decide how much money you get and that's it. So if its not enough money it doesn't matter because "labour run wales" or "snp run scotland" automatically get blamed for everything like what happened with the tories. Same goes for the councils of which many times they don't have the budget for the demands and does the government take accountability? Nah its "labour run x council" who bankrupt it. So when you see the same lines played out by government time and time again its an issue as people believe it even though many times the issue is more with centralised government. With that said... my feelings on the tories and Tory lite are well documented and the thought of them having more power is concerning. However at the minute we seem to be at a point where the funding for devolved governments and councils with devolved powers isn't enough. But the blame for all the problems from the media and government is going to those with devolved powers. So they're effectively controlling the purse strings but taking none of the blame. And like Stephen said when it comes to welfare 70% of the powers aren't devolved. But thr government will still blame the devolved parties like in the above instance. "Well why haven't snp scrapped the 2 child benefit cap".... "because we can't, it's not a devolved power" But yeah I'm not informed enough on this to really give an honest opinion on what I personally think is the right amount of devolved powers. It just seems to me a perennial issue.....if central government doesn't give the regions, different coloured constituencies or devolved governments the resources, they are set up for failure and easy targets to take the blame It is quite a complex issue and certainly not straightforward I agree with Gawa that the Barnett Formula should be reviewed even Barnett said so and it was only ever meant to be temporary when introduced back in the 1970s The problem with Barnett is that it is based on population size not need Having said that it's not true to say that the devolved Governments don't get to decide how it spends the money it receives, Political Choice And of course Treasury doesn't have a bottomless pit of money Wales pretty much follows England in all areas of Tax and spend Scotland diverges considerably as it provides Free University Tuition, Prescriptions, Travel for U22s, a New Baby Box and Free Tampons There is a misconception that these are Free, they aren't because the quantum is deducted from the Barnett amount Scotland also has different Tax Bands it is estimated it will raise £1.5Bn this fiscal year more than if it applied England Tax Bands and this is extra money above it can use on Public Services above Barnett Northern Ireland follows England it almost all areas except for one. It doesn't charge Domestic Water Rates. This also comes out of Barnett. NI Publically owned Water could raise about £300/400M if it introduced Water Rates like Scotland - publically owned, Wales - not for profit company or England - Private Ownership Scotland runs an annual Budget Deficit of about £20Bn that is to say is spends £20Bn more per year than it raises in Taxes for Treasury. Wales runs a Budget Deficit of about£15Bn and NI about £10Bn The latter NI Budget Deficit is often put forward as a reason against Reunification but a recent analysis by UCD put the figure more in the £2/3Bn cost which is a pittance for the thriving ROI Economy A better example is the reunification of Germany, rather than lowering the standard of living in the West it raised the standard of living in the East. The same goal would be to raise the standard of living in NI to match that in ROI
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 19, 2024 20:08:17 GMT
It just seems to me a perennial issue.....if central government doesn't give the regions, different coloured constituencies or devolved governments the resources, they are set up for failure and easy targets to take the blame It is quite a complex issue and certainly not straightforward I agree with Gawa that the Barnett Formula should be reviewed even Barnett said so and it was only ever meant to be temporary when introduced back in the 1970s The problem with Barnett is that it is based on population size not need Having said that it's not true to say that the devolved Governments don't get to decide how it spends the money it receives, Political Choice And of course Treasury doesn't have a bottomless pit of money Wales pretty much follows England in all areas of Tax and spend Scotland diverges considerably as it provides Free University Tuition, Prescriptions, Travel for U22s, a New Baby Box and Free Tampons There is a misconception that these are Free, they aren't because the quantum is deducted from the Barnett amount Scotland also has different Tax Bands it is estimated it will raise £1.5Bn this fiscal year more than if it applied England Tax Bands and this is extra money above it can use on Public Services above Barnett Northern Ireland follows England it almost all areas except for one. It doesn't charge Domestic Water Rates. This also comes out of Barnett. NI Publically owned Water could raise about £300/400M if it introduced Water Rates like Scotland - publically owned, Wales - not for profit company or England - Private Ownership Scotland runs an annual Budget Deficit of about £20Bn that is to say is spends £20Bn more per year than it raises in Taxes for Treasury. Wales runs a Budget Deficit of about£15Bn and NI about £10Bn The latter NI Budget Deficit is often put forward as a reason against Reunification but a recent analysis by UCD put the figure more in the £2/3Bn cost which is a pittance for the thriving ROI Economy A better example is the reunification of Germany, rather than lowering the standard of living in the West it raised the standard of living in the East. The same goal would be to raise the standard of living in NI to match that in ROI I think there are also other issues Wannabee, other than economics, trade and standard of living, such as identity, independence and Sovereignty. I'm sure there are many Irish and Scottish who simply want to be separate from the English....whatever the cost. Then no one can predict the future.
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Post by wannabee on Jul 19, 2024 21:50:33 GMT
It is quite a complex issue and certainly not straightforward I agree with Gawa that the Barnett Formula should be reviewed even Barnett said so and it was only ever meant to be temporary when introduced back in the 1970s The problem with Barnett is that it is based on population size not need Having said that it's not true to say that the devolved Governments don't get to decide how it spends the money it receives, Political Choice And of course Treasury doesn't have a bottomless pit of money Wales pretty much follows England in all areas of Tax and spend Scotland diverges considerably as it provides Free University Tuition, Prescriptions, Travel for U22s, a New Baby Box and Free Tampons There is a misconception that these are Free, they aren't because the quantum is deducted from the Barnett amount Scotland also has different Tax Bands it is estimated it will raise £1.5Bn this fiscal year more than if it applied England Tax Bands and this is extra money above it can use on Public Services above Barnett Northern Ireland follows England it almost all areas except for one. It doesn't charge Domestic Water Rates. This also comes out of Barnett. NI Publically owned Water could raise about £300/400M if it introduced Water Rates like Scotland - publically owned, Wales - not for profit company or England - Private Ownership Scotland runs an annual Budget Deficit of about £20Bn that is to say is spends £20Bn more per year than it raises in Taxes for Treasury. Wales runs a Budget Deficit of about£15Bn and NI about £10Bn The latter NI Budget Deficit is often put forward as a reason against Reunification but a recent analysis by UCD put the figure more in the £2/3Bn cost which is a pittance for the thriving ROI Economy A better example is the reunification of Germany, rather than lowering the standard of living in the West it raised the standard of living in the East. The same goal would be to raise the standard of living in NI to match that in ROI I think there are also other issues Wannabee, other than economics, trade and standard of living, such as identity, independence and Sovereignty. I'm sure there are many Irish and Scottish who simply want to be separate from the English....whatever the cost. Then no one can predict the future. 100% agree with you BJR, it's probably even more complex than the pure Economic question, but that was the question posed which I tried to give some perspective on.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 20, 2024 9:53:28 GMT
A fairly depressing read.....
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 21, 2024 23:50:31 GMT
As somebody who was a bit of a sceptic, I have to say, I thought this was a pretty impressive set of responses from Reeves ...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2024 0:30:10 GMT
As somebody who was a bit of a sceptic, I have to say, I thought this was a pretty impressive set of responses from Reeves ... I agree. She spoke very well.
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Post by gawa on Jul 22, 2024 10:47:29 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c72vjlgl4j8oFear mongering politics playing out well. Expect more of this over the next 5 years Labour votes 2015 - 9.3 million Tory votes 2015 - 11.3 million UKIP votes 2015 - 3.8 million Lib Dem votes 2015 - 2.4 million Green/Independent votes 2015 - 1.1 million Labour votes 2024 - 9.7 million (+4.3%)Tory votes 2024 - 6.8 million (-39.8%)Reform votes 2024 - 4.1 million (+7.9%)Lib Dem votes 2024 - 3.5 million (+45.8%)Green/Independent votes 2024 - 2.4 million (+118.2%)* So despite the Greens/Independents more than doubling the vote share in 10 years. Despite the Lib Dems nearly getting 50% vote share increase in 10 years. What we all need to fear is a "right wing populist" government. Because UKIP/Reform have managed a 8% vote share increase in 10 years. This is despite a 27.8% decrease in votes for Tory/Reform over the last 10 years. So even the majority of tory voters haven't moved to Reform either. Guess Labour must know something we don't and all these Lib Dem/Green/Independent voters are all going to start voting Reform Good old fearmongering politics doing what fearmongering politics do best. VOTE CENTRIST to keep away the scary populists. And lets not talk too much about the actual rise of the left wing because we don't want anyone thinking they have a better alternative. Centrism is the only way to stop "populism" and "far right" and don't let anyone believe there are alternatives. So lets just ignore the fact right wing votes have collapsed by 27.8%, lets also ignore the rise in votes for left wing politics and lets just use our state media or right wing owned media to pretend that it's centrism (which keeps moving to the right) or right wing populism which are the only two choices here. * All calculations done after rounding up votes to nearest 100k.
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Post by salopstick on Jul 22, 2024 10:55:34 GMT
Excellent speech by Stephen Flynn. Probably my favourite Westminster MP Gawa How far should devolution go for Scotland and Northern Ireland before it becomes Independendence? Or put it another way which areas of jurisdiction ( defence?) should remain at Westminster, which totally devolved( the rest?) I dont believe in devolution the various scottish/welsh/ni parliments cost billions to run money that could be siphoned off my MPs and their cronies spent better elsewhere. surely the mayoral system could do the bits that need to be run independant of government
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Post by Veritas on Jul 22, 2024 11:32:39 GMT
Gawa How far should devolution go for Scotland and Northern Ireland before it becomes Independendence? Or put it another way which areas of jurisdiction ( defence?) should remain at Westminster, which totally devolved( the rest?) I dont believe in devolution the various scottish/welsh/ni parliments cost billions to run money that could be siphoned off my MPs and their cronies spent better elsewhere. surely the mayoral system could do the bits that need to be run independant of government For me devolution always comes back to the "West Lothian Question" raised by Tam Dalyell. Basically how can it be fair and democratic for a Scottish MP in Westminster to be able for instance to vote on issues relating to Education in England & Wales while education in Scotland is outside the control of Westminster. For me MP's from Scotland, or any other part of the UK, should not be allowed to debate or vote on any issue that falls within the control of a devolved parliament. Ultimately this would mean a UK parliament only dealing with issues affecting all areas of the UK and national parliments for issues affecting just that country. This would be better in terms of democratic legitimacy but would almost certainly cost a lot more.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 22, 2024 11:41:14 GMT
Gawa How far should devolution go for Scotland and Northern Ireland before it becomes Independendence? Or put it another way which areas of jurisdiction ( defence?) should remain at Westminster, which totally devolved( the rest?) I dont believe in devolution the various scottish/welsh/ni parliments cost billions to run money that could be siphoned off my MPs and their cronies spent better elsewhere. surely the mayoral system could do the bits that need to be run independant of government Good point. I just believe that since we've gone down the devolution road , eventual independence is likely
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Post by gawa on Jul 22, 2024 11:51:09 GMT
I dont believe in devolution the various scottish/welsh/ni parliments cost billions to run money that could be siphoned off my MPs and their cronies spent better elsewhere. surely the mayoral system could do the bits that need to be run independant of government Basically how can it be fair and democratic for a Scottish MP in Westminster to be able for instance to vote on issues relating to Education in England & Wales while education in Scotland is outside the control of Westminster. Reserved policies are voted on at Westminster, devolved policies at local parliament. If every non-english MP voted together on a reserved policy they'd have 16.5% of the vote in Westminster. i.e. little to no say. How is it fair and democratic that reserved policies affecting NI/Wales/Scotland are voted on by 83.5% of people who don't even live in these areas or represent our communities? The problem is when it comes to devolved policies, England/Westminster can still overule them as they wish. They have a "sewell convention" whereby they are required to consult devolved governments on any policies they intend to enforce which should be devolved, but even if the local government is against said policies it makes no difference. The UK government can still impose what they wish and have done many times. There are many recent examples of this such as numerous brexit bills and also the gender bill in Scotland which Westminster overturned. There are many other examples too. So you are right it isn't fair and democratic but not for England - for the devolved nations. England/Westminster can overpower the local devolved governments and do as they wish despite holding no seats in the devolved governments. Find me a bill in Westminster however where all the Irish/Welsh/Scotland MPs enforced something which a majority of English representing MPs didn't vote for and was specific to England.
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Post by salopstick on Jul 22, 2024 11:55:54 GMT
I dont believe in devolution the various scottish/welsh/ni parliments cost billions to run money that could be siphoned off my MPs and their cronies spent better elsewhere. surely the mayoral system could do the bits that need to be run independant of government For me devolution always comes back to the "West Lothian Question" raised by Tam Dalyell. Basically how can it be fair and democratic for a Scottish MP in Westminster to be able for instance to vote on issues relating to Education in England & Wales while education in Scotland is outside the control of Westminster. For me MP's from Scotland, or any other part of the UK, should not be allowed to debate or vote on any issue that falls within the control of a devolved parliament. Ultimately this would mean a UK parliament only dealing with issues affecting all areas of the UK and national parliments for issues affecting just that country. This would be better in terms of democratic legitimacy but would almost certainly cost a lot more. hence i believe uk law should apply uk wide not separate countries. but im happy to have a mayor of north scotland, mid wales etc like england do. to have some sort of region governance I think devolution creates division instead of enhancing unity
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Post by gawa on Jul 22, 2024 12:08:38 GMT
For me devolution always comes back to the "West Lothian Question" raised by Tam Dalyell. Basically how can it be fair and democratic for a Scottish MP in Westminster to be able for instance to vote on issues relating to Education in England & Wales while education in Scotland is outside the control of Westminster. For me MP's from Scotland, or any other part of the UK, should not be allowed to debate or vote on any issue that falls within the control of a devolved parliament. Ultimately this would mean a UK parliament only dealing with issues affecting all areas of the UK and national parliments for issues affecting just that country. This would be better in terms of democratic legitimacy but would almost certainly cost a lot more. hence i believe uk law should apply uk wide not separate countries. but im happy to have a mayor of north scotland, mid wales etc like england do. to have some sort of region governance I think devolution creates division instead of enhancing unity Unity means 83.5% of MPs from England imposing the law on the other countries. That's a dictatorship. However if each country was to get a fair share of representatives and an equal vote then I fully support your suggestion. 25% of the MPs from each country to vote on things affecting whole of UK. Then a mayor for the different regions to handle more devolved stuff too.
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Post by salopstick on Jul 22, 2024 12:20:08 GMT
hence i believe uk law should apply uk wide not separate countries. but im happy to have a mayor of north scotland, mid wales etc like england do. to have some sort of region governance I think devolution creates division instead of enhancing unity Unity means 83.5% of MPs from England imposing the law on the other countries. That's a dictatorship. However if each country was to get a fair share of representatives and an equal vote then I fully support your suggestion. 25% of the MPs from each country to vote on things affecting whole of UK. Then a mayor for the different regions to handle more devolved stuff too. england has a larger area and more people, the number of MP's reflect that. A single UK policy for most things voted on by parliment is not a dictatorship. Manifestos should be UK wide and scots, welsh and irish can vote how they want knowing the government will be representative of that vote (PR is a different subject) You will always have legislation that is more supported in different regions, that cannot be solved but laws should equal uk wide different regions have different local needs that is what the mayoral system is for The total operating cost budget for the Scottish Government in 2022-23 is £670.0 million. This represents 1.2% of the overall Scottish Budget (as measured by Total Managed Expenditure). That was also a 10% increase on £599 million for 21/22 and could be spent on improving the life for the scots
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jul 22, 2024 13:41:37 GMT
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Post by Dave the Rave on Jul 22, 2024 15:04:31 GMT
He's going to be a fantastic prime minister because he genuinely believes in public service being an honour.
He has instilled that into the Labour party and they will govern with the country and it's citizens best interests at heart.
He'll make mistakes, but he's not in No. 10 to help the aristocracy to bleed the country dry.
He's also highly intelligent and understands that change will take time within a system and economy where so much power and influence lies in the hands of so few.
For me, he's the first prime minister in 15 years who comes across as genuinely giving a shit. He's more relatable than Boris, Liz or Rishi could ever hope to be.
A decent man, trying to undo years of cronyism, corruption and looting of the public purse to return government back to the service of working people.
I see good times ahead for the UK over the next decade.
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Post by gawa on Jul 22, 2024 15:33:53 GMT
No surprises here
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Post by gawa on Jul 22, 2024 21:03:59 GMT
I have to say it's quite the mind fuck seeing the Duopoly swap sides.
We no longer have Rayner and Starmer telling us how bad the 2 child benefit cap is and the amount of kids in poverty while the tories do nothing.
Now we have Suella taking up the opposition role where she tells us how bad the cap is while labour do nothing.
Got to love the Duopoly. They're very good at acting out their roles. Just a shame neither of them fight for the working man when in power. At least they always have the other cheek to blame for that though.
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