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Post by mrcoke on Jul 5, 2024 14:33:44 GMT
The result has the hallmarks of Heath's defeat in the 70s, when he went to the public on the issue of "Who rules Britain, the government or the unions?". The decision of the public was "Well not you!" Labour defeated the Tories because huge numbers of Tory voters voted for my party at the time, the Liberals. The actually number of Labour votes went down but they got into power because splitting the other parties' votes gave them an increase in MPs. This time the victory is far bigger because firstly the record of the Tories was so bad. Cameron voted with his feet and quit, losing the referendum; the Tories elected a leader who didn't believe in Brexit and procrastinated losing time, her majority, and eventually her job. Then we got Johnson and Truss, enough said. I voted for Johnson because he made it his sole primary objective to get Brexit done, but preceeded like a bull in a China shop. Sunak has steadied the boat, but the boat had too many leaks and has sunk. Secondly Labour gained in some areas and two opposition parties split the Tory vote in other areas. It is a double whammy. I wish Starmer all the best, he has a golden opportunity now to create wealth and ensure it is distributed more fairly, but he mustn't kill the goose and damage commerce and industry the way Blair and Brown did. He must keep a tight control on the budget in the mean time and not permit a massive borrowing spree like Blair and Brown did. If he approaches matters sensibly and keeps control of his own party he could be our best PM since err... maggie ? No. I was an active member of the Liberal Party at the time working against Thatcher who did huge damage to the fabric of society. She did achieve growth but at the expense of "selling the silver". Ask Sid. Blair was the last to do most for society but he (and Brown) did it on the bowwave of healthy economic growth they inherited, which they kept riding by allowing a massive increase in public borrowing and toxic bank lending till it all came crashing down. We have actually come out of the recent recession caused by a worldwide pandemic faster than the 2008 financial crash. Maggie did curb the power of the unions who were out of control under Callaghan. Heath gave us the Barber boom and an inflation mountain that makes the recent peak in inflation due to the war in Ukraine look like a molehill. He also took us into the EEC for which we have been paying for half a century. Thatcher to her credit did swung her handbag and got the UK a rebate, but we have still spent decades paying for other countries economies to be revived and built up a massive trade deficit. Wilson gave us lots of promises followed by nationalisation, stagflation, devaluation, etc. I'm grateful to him though for teaching Cameron to hold a referendum on EU membership to resolve internal party differences. That worked well in my opinion. So we go back to Super Mac, who did give us economic growth, albeit "stop-go", improved social services, although light years behind today's demands, better housing, education etc. Buf also their share of scandal. What Macmillan did teach us if you want to provide public services, you've got to pay for them by a healthy growing economy. When I started at Wolstanton Grammar School in the 1950s, there were only two cars parked on the terrace in front of the school owned by the headmaster Morris Marples, and the deputy head. When I left there were dozens of cars parked on that terrace owned by all the teachers and support staff. That's how much the world changed in just 7 years. But you have got to have sound currency and government finances, good growth, the balance of trade in balance, inward investment, etc. Then you can afford to improve public services. But Labour came in and blew the budget on a frenzy of school and universities investment, nationalising steel, etc. and the economy ground to a halt. When I left university at the end of the 60s, mine was the first generation where graduates had to search for jobs instead of walking straight into them, another example of Labour damage to the economy. I think Starmer spoke well today, and I wish him every success. But Thatcher also gave us inspiring words outside #10 when she first walked in, and look how that turned out for millions of working people. One good result was Farage getting into parliament. I agree with very little of what he has to say apart from not being in EU, but I think he will be a very effective "one man opposition" and will keep on Starmer's case constantly, keeping Starmer "on-side ". I'm looking forward to question times; Starmer is going to have to improve his presentation skills!
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Post by Dave the Rave on Jul 5, 2024 14:46:47 GMT
He's going to be a massive breath of fresh air, as is Angela Rayner.
A prime minister and his deputy both from working class backgrounds.
Both of them got into politics to make a difference to ordinary people.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 5, 2024 14:48:07 GMT
It's official...
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Post by adri2008 on Jul 5, 2024 14:59:19 GMT
A predict a professionally run government to oversee the country's continued decline.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 5, 2024 15:25:59 GMT
Great to see big Dave Lammy getting the foreign secretary gig.
Now let’s see him kick Putin and Trumps arses.
Goaarn Dave.
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Post by thebasfordhedgehog on Jul 5, 2024 15:27:25 GMT
It's official... Charlie boy has freakishly big hands.
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Post by bridgnorthstokie on Jul 5, 2024 15:27:39 GMT
Great to see big Dave Lammy getting the foreign secretary gig. Now let’s see him kick Putin and Trumps arses. Goaarn Dave. He's more likely to be sympathising with hamas and hezballeh...he's a bad un. I tell thee.
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Post by bridgnorthstokie on Jul 5, 2024 15:30:31 GMT
The honeymoons over. STARMER OUT.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 5, 2024 15:37:14 GMT
The honeymoons over. STARMER OUT. As someone who is not a fan of Starmer, I say what a load of old bollocks that is.......
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 5, 2024 15:42:14 GMT
Not really into my politics but I’d be interested to know peoples views on Rachel Reeves and Yvette Cooper.
Think they’ll do a good job.
Clearly 2 of the biggest roles in the cabinet.
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Post by bridgnorthstokie on Jul 5, 2024 15:47:42 GMT
Not really into my politics but I’d be interested to know peoples views on Rachel Reeves and Yvette Cooper. Think they’ll do a good job. Clearly 2 of the biggest roles in the cabinet. Yvette Cooper is a big hitter, survived a scandal of false accounting over the purchase of her 600+k house a few years but clung on to her career and is back at the top table... Doesn't matter whose in charge they've all got a scandal in the closet somewhere.
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Post by oggyoggy on Jul 5, 2024 15:49:29 GMT
Not really into my politics but I’d be interested to know peoples views on Rachel Reeves and Yvette Cooper. Think they’ll do a good job. Clearly 2 of the biggest roles in the cabinet. I think they are both very competent, particularly Cooper who has decimated Home Sec after Home Sec both in the Commons and as the chair of the home affairs select committee. Reeves may be too cautious but let’s see.
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Post by oggyoggy on Jul 5, 2024 15:54:09 GMT
We now have the most working class PM this country has ever had I think.
In fact, can anyone name a more working class leader of the labour party? Someone with a better memory (and a few more years on me) probably can.
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Post by mrcoke on Jul 5, 2024 15:54:10 GMT
It's official... Charlie boy has freakishly big hands. Is there anyone in the world shaken more hands?
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 5, 2024 15:55:37 GMT
We now have the most working class PM this country has ever had I think. In fact, can anyone name a more working class leader of the labour party? Someone with a better memory (and a few more years on me) probably can. Thatcher was the daughter of a greengrocer wasnt she?
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 5, 2024 15:56:18 GMT
Not really into my politics but I’d be interested to know peoples views on Rachel Reeves and Yvette Cooper. Think they’ll do a good job. Clearly 2 of the biggest roles in the cabinet. I think they are both very competent, particularly Cooper who has decimated Home Sec after Home Sec both in the Commons and as the chair of the home affairs select committee. Reeves may be too cautious but let’s see. nothing wrong with a bit of caution.
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Post by oggyoggy on Jul 5, 2024 15:59:51 GMT
We now have the most working class PM this country has ever had I think. In fact, can anyone name a more working class leader of the labour party? Someone with a better memory (and a few more years on me) probably can. Thatcher was the daughter of a greengrocer wasnt she? Good shout. Thatcher’s father was a methodist vicar wasn’t he? But Thatcher and Starmer are not from that dissimilar backgrounds.
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Post by oggyoggy on Jul 5, 2024 16:02:18 GMT
I think they are both very competent, particularly Cooper who has decimated Home Sec after Home Sec both in the Commons and as the chair of the home affairs select committee. Reeves may be too cautious but let’s see. nothing wrong with a bit of caution. Not necessarily no. Bloody accountants!
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Post by AlliG on Jul 5, 2024 16:22:12 GMT
We now have the most working class PM this country has ever had I think. In fact, can anyone name a more working class leader of the labour party? Someone with a better memory (and a few more years on me) probably can. I would have thought Jim Callaghan was a lot more "working class". Ramsay MacDonald's parents were a farm labourer and a house maid.
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Post by bridgnorthstokie on Jul 5, 2024 16:25:51 GMT
We now have the most working class PM this country has ever had I think. In fact, can anyone name a more working class leader of the labour party? Someone with a better memory (and a few more years on me) probably can. I would have thought Jim Callaghan was a lot more "working class". Ramsay MacDonald's parents were a farm labourer and a house maid. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Millionaire land owner sir keir starmer the most working class... Come on guys take the rose tinted specs off and speak some truth. Callagan, thatcher, May, Lloyd George, Major. were not multi millionaires when they became pm.
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Post by mrcoke on Jul 5, 2024 16:33:45 GMT
We now have the most working class PM this country has ever had I think. In fact, can anyone name a more working class leader of the labour party? Someone with a better memory (and a few more years on me) probably can. I would have thought Jim Callaghan was a lot more "working class". Ramsay MacDonald's parents were a farm labourer and a house maid. Interesting point: Starmer takes the top job in UK politics with no experience in government, I hope he's up to it. Callaghan was the only person ever to hold the other top jobs of Chancellor of Exchequer, Foreign Secretary, and Home Secretary before becoming PM and he was useless.
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Post by AlliG on Jul 5, 2024 16:36:36 GMT
I would have thought Jim Callaghan was a lot more "working class". Ramsay MacDonald's parents were a farm labourer and a house maid. Interesting point: Starmer takes the top job in UK politics with no experience in government, I hope he's up to it. Callaghan was the only person ever to hold the other top jobs of Chancellor of Exchequer, Foreign Secretary, and Home Secretary before becoming PM and he was useless. It is, but there again there can hardly have been a member of Tony Blair's cabinet to have had government experience seeing as they had been in opposition for about 18 years.
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Post by oggyoggy on Jul 5, 2024 16:43:57 GMT
I would have thought Jim Callaghan was a lot more "working class". Ramsay MacDonald's parents were a farm labourer and a house maid. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Millionaire land owner sir keir starmer the most working class... Come on guys take the rose tinted specs off and speak some truth. Callagan, thatcher, May, Lloyd George, Major. were not multi millionaires when they became pm. Starmer is from a poor family and was state educated and the first from his family to go to university. He did very well for himself. But is certainly from a working class background.
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Post by thebasfordhedgehog on Jul 5, 2024 16:46:16 GMT
I would have thought Jim Callaghan was a lot more "working class". Ramsay MacDonald's parents were a farm labourer and a house maid. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Millionaire land owner sir keir starmer the most working class... Come on guys take the rose tinted specs off and speak some truth. Callagan, thatcher, May, Lloyd George, Major. were not multi millionaires when they became pm. Starmer’s dad was a toolmaker.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 5, 2024 16:54:26 GMT
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Millionaire land owner sir keir starmer the most working class... Come on guys take the rose tinted specs off and speak some truth. Callagan, thatcher, May, Lloyd George, Major. were not multi millionaires when they became pm. Starmer is from a poor family and was state educated and the first from his family to go to university. He did very well for himself. But is certainly from a working class background. Starmer has done really well for himself but no one believes he grew up poor do they? It's absolutely fine to come from a modest background there's no need for the stories of how they had broken windows they couldn't fix and how their electricity kept getting cut off. I'm just glad it wasn't a winter election or he'd have been wearing bin bags and drinking his own piss................
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Post by bridgnorthstokie on Jul 5, 2024 16:55:17 GMT
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Millionaire land owner sir keir starmer the most working class... Come on guys take the rose tinted specs off and speak some truth. Callagan, thatcher, May, Lloyd George, Major. were not multi millionaires when they became pm. Starmer’s dad was a toolmaker. The original thread was that keir starmer is the most working class PM.... He may have started his life in a working class family. He's worked hard and done well for himself. But to call him working class now is incorrect he is who the left like to hate and socialists detest. A Millionaire land owner. He will finish work tonight at 6 and return to his million pound working class farm house on his working class land estate..
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 5, 2024 16:55:51 GMT
Charlie boy has freakishly big hands. Is there anyone in the world with such huge hands? The hands are fine it's his massive sausage fingers that are the problem......
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Post by oggyoggy on Jul 5, 2024 17:02:24 GMT
Starmer is from a poor family and was state educated and the first from his family to go to university. He did very well for himself. But is certainly from a working class background. Starmer has done really well for himself but no one believes he grew up poor do they? It's absolutely fine to come from a modest background there's no need for the stories of how they had broken windows they couldn't fix and how their electricity kept getting cut off. I'm just glad it wasn't a winter election or he'd have been wearing bin bags and drinking his own piss................ Poor may be the wrong word.
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Post by oggyoggy on Jul 5, 2024 17:03:11 GMT
Starmer’s dad was a toolmaker. The original thread was that keir starmer is the most working class PM.... He may have started his life in a working class family. He's worked hard and done well for himself. But to call him working class now is incorrect he is who the left like to hate and socialists detest. A Millionaire land owner. He will finish work tonight at 6 and return to his million pound working class farm house on his working class land estate.. So there are no working class successful people? Is Angela Rayner working class?
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 5, 2024 17:03:47 GMT
Good to see that Philip Normal the Labour councillor and local election candidate who had to resign over his offensive and Islamophobic tweets was part of the delegation with Starmer outside number 10 this afternoon. Hierarchy of racism anybody?
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