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Post by Clayton Wood on May 31, 2024 17:26:00 GMT
I think he's right and it could come back to bite Starmer on the arse, much sooner than he thinks ... He'll last 6-12 months after winning the beauty pageant then be fooked off to let Rayner run the show imo.
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Post by iancransonsknees on Jun 1, 2024 7:49:04 GMT
I think he's right and it could come back to bite Starmer on the arse, much sooner than he thinks ... www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c7220exjzvnoBit lengthy bit it explains what's been going on in some detail.
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Post by Dave the Rave on Jun 1, 2024 8:11:04 GMT
I think he's right and it could come back to bite Starmer on the arse, much sooner than he thinks ... www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c7220exjzvnoBit lengthy bit it explains what's been going on in some detail. Read that earlier and found it well balanced.
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Post by felonious on Jun 1, 2024 8:14:07 GMT
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Post by oggyoggy on Jun 1, 2024 9:24:06 GMT
You seem to think Jews/Israel overly influence policy in this country. I disagree. I asked you to name some examples. You couldn’t and can’t and then say I am weaponising anti semitism! You can’t back up your point of view with examples and have become abusive. No. You're being obtuse. You know very well how policy and bills are voted on within this country. You appear to think by focusing on "Which specific policy" that there is no influence which is completely absurd. I've given you two documentaries which discuss the influence but you refuse to watch them. Instead you claim that they're produced by Muslim's to attack jews. Here are questions asked by the JEWISH Anti-Zionist network on the foreign affairs select committee in the house of commons. Have a read at their questions (actual Jewish people) on Israel's influence on British politics - committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/79711/pdf/Or here is an article from Alan Duncan, an MP of 27 years talking about it - electronicintifada.net/blogs/asa-winstanley/high-level-israel-lobby-interference-british-politics-says-ex-ministerHaving read some of your subsequent posts since this it appears you're the person with the issue here. Whether it be the Islamophobic comments about Muslims, the weaponization of antisemitism to smear people or your complete ignorance and refusal to read or watch any of the content provided to you because in your eyes unless we have 300 zionists who voted for a policy then zionists can have no influence. You're meant to be a lawyer and educated but it seems you want to just make arguments on blissful ignorance or by manipulating what others have said to try and smear them. And given you've proven you're more than adept in the past to do your own research and reading on topics and then make informed opinions - this seems very out of character for you. Why do you refuse to actually educate yourself on the subject and instead attack the documentaries as being Muslim propaganda (you didn't say the word propaganda but I feel that is what you implied). I just feel like you're behaving incredibly intransigente on the subject with your obstinate refusual to consider any evidence or sources presented to you and instead channeling your focus on attacking the character of the people rather than the content of their arguments. If you don't agree with what's in the documentaries then provide some gusto an arguments against the points they raise. Simply saying "Oh they're all muslims just attacking jews" isn't a coherent argument. And given it is out of character for you, I can only think your refusal to acknowledge or listen to evidence is because you know you can't argue against it. So muddling the waters and smearing others is what you'd rather do than face the reality. Who said "Oh they're all muslims just attacking jews"? I didn’t. You said when talking about the labour files and influence on our politics “ That affects everything from NHS through to housing.” I don’t agree. And you say I am weaponising anti semitism and now I am apparently also islamaphobic as a result and I should be ashamed for down playing the impact of Jews and/or Israel on our politics. This is the third time I have stood up against anti Israeli or anti Jewish comments on this board. It is the third time I have been attacked by the same people and accused of these things. I absolutely one hundred percent stand by my opinion that UK Jews, and/or Israel, don’t have a huge sway over our politics. I think they certainly have some power over our policy on Israel Palestine. I will not accept your personal abuse for holding that opinion and I think you should reflect on your treatment of others and the fact when your opinion is challenged you become personally abusive rather than argue the point. You are obviously extremely triggered by any talk of Israel or Jews but do not take it out on people who hold a different opinion to you.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jun 1, 2024 9:39:47 GMT
No. You're being obtuse. You know very well how policy and bills are voted on within this country. You appear to think by focusing on "Which specific policy" that there is no influence which is completely absurd. I've given you two documentaries which discuss the influence but you refuse to watch them. Instead you claim that they're produced by Muslim's to attack jews. Here are questions asked by the JEWISH Anti-Zionist network on the foreign affairs select committee in the house of commons. Have a read at their questions (actual Jewish people) on Israel's influence on British politics - committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/79711/pdf/Or here is an article from Alan Duncan, an MP of 27 years talking about it - electronicintifada.net/blogs/asa-winstanley/high-level-israel-lobby-interference-british-politics-says-ex-ministerHaving read some of your subsequent posts since this it appears you're the person with the issue here. Whether it be the Islamophobic comments about Muslims, the weaponization of antisemitism to smear people or your complete ignorance and refusal to read or watch any of the content provided to you because in your eyes unless we have 300 zionists who voted for a policy then zionists can have no influence. You're meant to be a lawyer and educated but it seems you want to just make arguments on blissful ignorance or by manipulating what others have said to try and smear them. And given you've proven you're more than adept in the past to do your own research and reading on topics and then make informed opinions - this seems very out of character for you. Why do you refuse to actually educate yourself on the subject and instead attack the documentaries as being Muslim propaganda (you didn't say the word propaganda but I feel that is what you implied). I just feel like you're behaving incredibly intransigente on the subject with your obstinate refusual to consider any evidence or sources presented to you and instead channeling your focus on attacking the character of the people rather than the content of their arguments. If you don't agree with what's in the documentaries then provide some gusto an arguments against the points they raise. Simply saying "Oh they're all muslims just attacking jews" isn't a coherent argument. And given it is out of character for you, I can only think your refusal to acknowledge or listen to evidence is because you know you can't argue against it. So muddling the waters and smearing others is what you'd rather do than face the reality. Who said "Oh they're all muslims just attacking jews"? I didn’t. You said when talking about the labour files and influence on our politics “ That affects everything from NHS through to housing.” I don’t agree. And you say I am weaponising anti semitism and now I am apparently also islamaphobic as a result and I should be ashamed for down playing the impact of Jews and/or Israel on our politics. This is the third time I have stood up against anti Israeli or anti Jewish comments on this board. It is the third time I have been attacked by the same people and accused of these things. I absolutely one hundred percent stand by my opinion that UK Jews, and/or Israel, don’t have a huge sway over our politics. I think they certainly have some power over our policy on Israel Palestine. I will not accept your personal abuse for holding that opinion and I think you should reflect on your treatment of others and the fact when your opinion is challenged you become personally abusive rather than argue the point. You are obviously extremely triggered by any talk of Israel or Jews but do not take it out on people who hold a different opinion to you. I'm certainly not attacking you, I asked for evidence in the form of a quote(s) from gawa and you choose not to reply with any. Your prerogative, we move on. I can understand gawa's frustration though, you basically accused him of being an anti-Semite. That would piss me off as well.........
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Post by gawa on Jun 1, 2024 11:03:39 GMT
No. You're being obtuse. You know very well how policy and bills are voted on within this country. You appear to think by focusing on "Which specific policy" that there is no influence which is completely absurd. I've given you two documentaries which discuss the influence but you refuse to watch them. Instead you claim that they're produced by Muslim's to attack jews. Here are questions asked by the JEWISH Anti-Zionist network on the foreign affairs select committee in the house of commons. Have a read at their questions (actual Jewish people) on Israel's influence on British politics - committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/79711/pdf/Or here is an article from Alan Duncan, an MP of 27 years talking about it - electronicintifada.net/blogs/asa-winstanley/high-level-israel-lobby-interference-british-politics-says-ex-ministerHaving read some of your subsequent posts since this it appears you're the person with the issue here. Whether it be the Islamophobic comments about Muslims, the weaponization of antisemitism to smear people or your complete ignorance and refusal to read or watch any of the content provided to you because in your eyes unless we have 300 zionists who voted for a policy then zionists can have no influence. You're meant to be a lawyer and educated but it seems you want to just make arguments on blissful ignorance or by manipulating what others have said to try and smear them. And given you've proven you're more than adept in the past to do your own research and reading on topics and then make informed opinions - this seems very out of character for you. Why do you refuse to actually educate yourself on the subject and instead attack the documentaries as being Muslim propaganda (you didn't say the word propaganda but I feel that is what you implied). I just feel like you're behaving incredibly intransigente on the subject with your obstinate refusual to consider any evidence or sources presented to you and instead channeling your focus on attacking the character of the people rather than the content of their arguments. If you don't agree with what's in the documentaries then provide some gusto an arguments against the points they raise. Simply saying "Oh they're all muslims just attacking jews" isn't a coherent argument. And given it is out of character for you, I can only think your refusal to acknowledge or listen to evidence is because you know you can't argue against it. So muddling the waters and smearing others is what you'd rather do than face the reality. 1.Who said "Oh they're all muslims just attacking jews"? I didn’t. 2.You said when talking about the labour files and influence on our politics “ That affects everything from NHS through to housing.” 3. I don’t agree. And you say I am weaponising anti semitism and now I am apparently also islamaphobic as a result and I should be ashamed for down playing the impact of Jews and/or Israel on our politics. 4. This is the third time I have stood up against anti Israeli or anti Jewish comments on this board. It is the third time I have been attacked by the same people and accused of these things. 5. I absolutely one hundred percent stand by my opinion that UK Jews, and/or Israel, don’t have a huge sway over our politics. I think they certainly have some power over our policy on Israel Palestine. 6. I will not accept your personal abuse for holding that opinion and I think you should reflect on your treatment of others and the fact when your opinion is challenged you become personally abusive rather than argue the point. 7. You are obviously extremely triggered by any talk of Israel or Jews but do not take it out on people who hold a different opinion to you. 1. "I wonder what you would say if a news organisation funded by the Israeli government produced loads of broadcasts accusing Muslims of what Al Jazeera has done with Jews. I bet you wouldn’t assume it was gospel."You've literally implied above "accusing Muslims of what Al Jazeera has done with jews". You tried to draw a false equivalence basically implying it was a muslim attack on jews. The documentary is about the labour party not "jews" and it isn't an attack on "jews" either. It is a documentary on the BIGGEST leak in british politics history which examines INTERNAL DOCUMENTATION, EMAILS and SOCIAL MEDIA messages. INTERNAL. LEAKED. Not made up. Not fabricated. The only Jewish party associated to labour which requires all members to be jewish has even been promoting the documentary - www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/al-jazeera-the-labour-files/. But you still continue with your ignorance implying it's a an attack on jews. So the only jewish party associated to labour which requires all members to be jewish is... *checks notes*... attacking Jews? Explain the mental gymnastics behind that one please.2. Yes I did and I stand by that comment. But you want to behave obtusely. We've literally just had the labour party select an executive member who is a Zionist that denies white phosphorous was used by Israel, has been quoted by Israeli spies as being their friend, claims those suffering in Palestine are actors and thinks the United Nations is antisemitic. As well as heading up a group which is an Israel lobby. Do you not think this guy is going to have any influence on policies? Do you not think this NEC member who has been preventing and purging others from standing has no influence? Do you think the Labour Files which shows fabricated and overstated antisemitism claims is just made up? Have you watched it yet? Probably not. So if you are making false claims about an individual to try and force them out of office - is that not indirectly influencing policy? How do the labour policies in 2024 compare to 2017? Are they the same? I don't think they are Oggy. 3. No Oggy I literally said:"I don't believe you're islamaphobic either but the comments about the Al Jeezera documentary being produced by Muslims to attack Jews could very well be interpreted as islamaphobia. I think it was just ignorance on your part."
And yes you are weaponizing antisemitism as many others have also called you out. You accused me of all of the below: - "I don't follow why our tory government.... has been dictated by jews"
- "You sound like the nutters who complain about global jewish conspiracy"
- "Labour policy isn't dictated by jews"
- "What have you got against jews?"
- "You seem to have an agenda"In response to me saying this about Israels influence on british politics: "Uhm have you watched the Labour files? They pretty much ran a smear campaign filled with lies and fiction against the last Labour leader.
That affects everything from NHS through to housing.
Maybe you should take the time to watch the Labour files."
Where did I say tory government is dictated by jews?
Where did I push a global jewish conspiracy? Where did I say labour policy is dictated by jews? Where did I say anything about jews? You weaponised antisemitism implying I said jews run the world and dictate tory policies, dictate labour policies and I have an agenda against jewish people. Because why... because I pointed out that Israel lobbyists have and do influence UK politics? Because I'm literally saying "Oh Oggy have you seen the biggest leak in british politics history promoted by this group where everyone is jewish - why don't you give it a watch and see if you think Israel influences politics?" Is this anti christian? bylinetimes.com/2024/05/24/prime-minister-told-to-defend-the-uks-democracy-by-leading-security-body-amid-russian-interference-warning/Or is it ok to talk about Russian interference in politics and not hate christians or think christians rule the world or that they dictate policy? Or is that just a load of muslims attacking christians and that's fake news? 4. Sounds like it's a you problem then. Or are you the victim and everyone else is wrong?
5. Cool. Your entitled to that opinion. Have you watched or read up on The Lobby or The Labour Files yet? Or do you not want to consume information which challenges your beliefs? Isn't the best way to prove it is wrong by debating the contents of it. It's a bit like denying Hamas attacked Israel on October 7th but then refusing to read any of the news articles or videos related to it. It's ignorance and burying your head in the sand while accusing those who have made an effort to be informed on the subjects of being antisemitic.
6. YOU WILL NOT ACCEPT THE PERSONAL ABUSE? YOU? Your the person that started accusing and labelling people as hating jews, not me. I put your despicable comments down to ignorance but simply said they could be interpreted as Islamophobic. Please provide evidence of me being personal abusive. And also please provide evidence of where I said jews dictate policy and had an agenda against jews. Of course I'm going to defend myself when you attempt to smear me. But I have not at all personally abused you in any way shape or form - certainly no worse than what you've done to me.
7. No oggy I am triggered by people manipulating what I said and trying to smear me and it's not only me who has noticed it and called it out either. Why did you edit the post I quoted to omit words? What was the purpose or incentive behind that?
Adri said” “ The Jewish population of the UK is tiny so why does it appear to hold such sway over decision making.” I disagreed with that, asking what sway the Uk Jewish population has had on brexit, education, nhs, housing etc. Adri backed down. Gawa said: “ Uhm have you watched the Labour files? They pretty much ran a smear campaign filled with lies and fiction against the last Labour leader. That affects everything from NHS through to housing. Maybe you should take the time to watch the Labour files.” I asked for specific examples of policy the British Jewish population has influenced. I asked whether, for example, Jews are desperate for VAT on school fees. Gawa said: “ FUCKING SHAME ON YOU OGGY. DISGUSTING WEAPONISATION OF ANTISEMITSM. Keep living in your bubble.” That's really naughty, what you've done there Oggy and as a lawyer, you should be absolutely ashamed of yourself. I've found it now (page 153) and you've omitted the word ISRAEL from the post Gawa replied to. Poor fella, extremely poor.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jun 1, 2024 13:30:56 GMT
🍿
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Post by felonious on Jun 1, 2024 13:47:49 GMT
12 pages before we get to the last leg
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Post by oggyoggy on Jun 2, 2024 9:33:08 GMT
Who said "Oh they're all muslims just attacking jews"? I didn’t. You said when talking about the labour files and influence on our politics “ That affects everything from NHS through to housing.” I don’t agree. And you say I am weaponising anti semitism and now I am apparently also islamaphobic as a result and I should be ashamed for down playing the impact of Jews and/or Israel on our politics. This is the third time I have stood up against anti Israeli or anti Jewish comments on this board. It is the third time I have been attacked by the same people and accused of these things. I absolutely one hundred percent stand by my opinion that UK Jews, and/or Israel, don’t have a huge sway over our politics. I think they certainly have some power over our policy on Israel Palestine. I will not accept your personal abuse for holding that opinion and I think you should reflect on your treatment of others and the fact when your opinion is challenged you become personally abusive rather than argue the point. You are obviously extremely triggered by any talk of Israel or Jews but do not take it out on people who hold a different opinion to you. I'm certainly not attacking you, I asked for evidence in the form of a quote(s) from gawa and you choose not to reply with any. Your prerogative, we move on. I can understand gawa's frustration though, you basically accused him of being an anti-Semite. That would piss me off as well......... I love how you have replied to my post in which I have quoted Gawa and accused me of not quoting Gawa! I didn’t accuse him of being an anti semite. I said he risks sounding like he has an issue with Jewish people given he seems to think their influence “affects everything from NHS through to housing.” (That is a direct quote of what Gawa said about the Labour files before you erroneously accuse me of not quoting him again!).
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Post by oggyoggy on Jun 2, 2024 9:41:45 GMT
1.Who said "Oh they're all muslims just attacking jews"? I didn’t. 2.You said when talking about the labour files and influence on our politics “ That affects everything from NHS through to housing.” 3. I don’t agree. And you say I am weaponising anti semitism and now I am apparently also islamaphobic as a result and I should be ashamed for down playing the impact of Jews and/or Israel on our politics. 4. This is the third time I have stood up against anti Israeli or anti Jewish comments on this board. It is the third time I have been attacked by the same people and accused of these things. 5. I absolutely one hundred percent stand by my opinion that UK Jews, and/or Israel, don’t have a huge sway over our politics. I think they certainly have some power over our policy on Israel Palestine. 6. I will not accept your personal abuse for holding that opinion and I think you should reflect on your treatment of others and the fact when your opinion is challenged you become personally abusive rather than argue the point. 7. You are obviously extremely triggered by any talk of Israel or Jews but do not take it out on people who hold a different opinion to you. 1. "I wonder what you would say if a news organisation funded by the Israeli government produced loads of broadcasts accusing Muslims of what Al Jazeera has done with Jews. I bet you wouldn’t assume it was gospel."You've literally implied above "accusing Muslims of what Al Jazeera has done with jews". You tried to draw a false equivalence basically implying it was a muslim attack on jews. The documentary is about the labour party not "jews" and it isn't an attack on "jews" either. It is a documentary on the BIGGEST leak in british politics history which examines INTERNAL DOCUMENTATION, EMAILS and SOCIAL MEDIA messages. INTERNAL. LEAKED. Not made up. Not fabricated. The only Jewish party associated to labour which requires all members to be jewish has even been promoting the documentary - www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/al-jazeera-the-labour-files/. But you still continue with your ignorance implying it's a an attack on jews. So the only jewish party associated to labour which requires all members to be jewish is... *checks notes*... attacking Jews? Explain the mental gymnastics behind that one please.2. Yes I did and I stand by that comment. But you want to behave obtusely. We've literally just had the labour party select an executive member who is a Zionist that denies white phosphorous was used by Israel, has been quoted by Israeli spies as being their friend, claims those suffering in Palestine are actors and thinks the United Nations is antisemitic. As well as heading up a group which is an Israel lobby. Do you not think this guy is going to have any influence on policies? Do you not think this NEC member who has been preventing and purging others from standing has no influence? Do you think the Labour Files which shows fabricated and overstated antisemitism claims is just made up? Have you watched it yet? Probably not. So if you are making false claims about an individual to try and force them out of office - is that not indirectly influencing policy? How do the labour policies in 2024 compare to 2017? Are they the same? I don't think they are Oggy. 3. No Oggy I literally said:"I don't believe you're islamaphobic either but the comments about the Al Jeezera documentary being produced by Muslims to attack Jews could very well be interpreted as islamaphobia. I think it was just ignorance on your part."
And yes you are weaponizing antisemitism as many others have also called you out. You accused me of all of the below: - "I don't follow why our tory government.... has been dictated by jews"
- "You sound like the nutters who complain about global jewish conspiracy"
- "Labour policy isn't dictated by jews"
- "What have you got against jews?"
- "You seem to have an agenda"In response to me saying this about Israels influence on british politics: "Uhm have you watched the Labour files? They pretty much ran a smear campaign filled with lies and fiction against the last Labour leader.
That affects everything from NHS through to housing.
Maybe you should take the time to watch the Labour files."
Where did I say tory government is dictated by jews?
Where did I push a global jewish conspiracy? Where did I say labour policy is dictated by jews? Where did I say anything about jews? You weaponised antisemitism implying I said jews run the world and dictate tory policies, dictate labour policies and I have an agenda against jewish people. Because why... because I pointed out that Israel lobbyists have and do influence UK politics? Because I'm literally saying "Oh Oggy have you seen the biggest leak in british politics history promoted by this group where everyone is jewish - why don't you give it a watch and see if you think Israel influences politics?" Is this anti christian? bylinetimes.com/2024/05/24/prime-minister-told-to-defend-the-uks-democracy-by-leading-security-body-amid-russian-interference-warning/Or is it ok to talk about Russian interference in politics and not hate christians or think christians rule the world or that they dictate policy? Or is that just a load of muslims attacking christians and that's fake news? 4. Sounds like it's a you problem then. Or are you the victim and everyone else is wrong?
5. Cool. Your entitled to that opinion. Have you watched or read up on The Lobby or The Labour Files yet? Or do you not want to consume information which challenges your beliefs? Isn't the best way to prove it is wrong by debating the contents of it. It's a bit like denying Hamas attacked Israel on October 7th but then refusing to read any of the news articles or videos related to it. It's ignorance and burying your head in the sand while accusing those who have made an effort to be informed on the subjects of being antisemitic.
6. YOU WILL NOT ACCEPT THE PERSONAL ABUSE? YOU? Your the person that started accusing and labelling people as hating jews, not me. I put your despicable comments down to ignorance but simply said they could be interpreted as Islamophobic. Please provide evidence of me being personal abusive. And also please provide evidence of where I said jews dictate policy and had an agenda against jews. Of course I'm going to defend myself when you attempt to smear me. But I have not at all personally abused you in any way shape or form - certainly no worse than what you've done to me.
7. No oggy I am triggered by people manipulating what I said and trying to smear me and it's not only me who has noticed it and called it out either. Why did you edit the post I quoted to omit words? What was the purpose or incentive behind that?
That's really naughty, what you've done there Oggy and as a lawyer, you should be absolutely ashamed of yourself. I've found it now (page 153) and you've omitted the word ISRAEL from the post Gawa replied to. Poor fella, extremely poor.
Yet again you lie and intentionally and maliciously misrepresent what has been written and run a personal attack on me rather than enter into a debate or discussion. You say something, someone disagrees and then rather than try to justify your point you become abusive. You have rewritten history above. From above, it sounds like you are accusing me of the same. Fair enough. Going back to the original point, I don’t believe Jews (or Israel) have a huge sway over British politics. That was the point I originally made to Adri. You referred to the Labour files and saying it affects everything (from NHS to housing). I disagree. I have asked repeatedly for examples and I got called all sorts names for it I apologise for the provocative things I said. But to say Jews or Israel are “affecting everything “ does sound like a conspiracy theorist type of thing to say! I’m sorry if you disagree or are offended by me saying that but it does sound ridiculously over the top and the type of thing idiots like Tommy Robinson say about Muslims.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jun 2, 2024 9:46:24 GMT
I'm certainly not attacking you, I asked for evidence in the form of a quote(s) from gawa and you choose not to reply with any. Your prerogative, we move on. I can understand gawa's frustration though, you basically accused him of being an anti-Semite. That would piss me off as well......... I love how you have replied to my post in which I have quoted Gawa and accused me of not quoting Gawa! I didn’t accuse him of being an anti semite. I said he risks sounding like he has an issue with Jewish people given he seems to think their influence “affects everything from NHS through to housing.” (That is a direct quote of what Gawa said about the Labour files before you erroneously accuse me of not quoting him again!). You know exactly what I meant, I was referring to specific quotes of him talking about Jewish conspiracies etc. which is very much ant-Semitic and a bold claim. A direct quote of him saying what you accused him of saying could have nipped it in the bud, but it never happened. But seriously don't bother replying, you've taken your stance and we're going nowhere here............
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 2, 2024 12:13:51 GMT
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 2, 2024 13:10:54 GMT
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Post by gawa on Jun 2, 2024 16:05:55 GMT
1. "I wonder what you would say if a news organisation funded by the Israeli government produced loads of broadcasts accusing Muslims of what Al Jazeera has done with Jews. I bet you wouldn’t assume it was gospel."You've literally implied above "accusing Muslims of what Al Jazeera has done with jews". You tried to draw a false equivalence basically implying it was a muslim attack on jews. The documentary is about the labour party not "jews" and it isn't an attack on "jews" either. It is a documentary on the BIGGEST leak in british politics history which examines INTERNAL DOCUMENTATION, EMAILS and SOCIAL MEDIA messages. INTERNAL. LEAKED. Not made up. Not fabricated. The only Jewish party associated to labour which requires all members to be jewish has even been promoting the documentary - www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/al-jazeera-the-labour-files/. But you still continue with your ignorance implying it's a an attack on jews. So the only jewish party associated to labour which requires all members to be jewish is... *checks notes*... attacking Jews? Explain the mental gymnastics behind that one please.2. Yes I did and I stand by that comment. But you want to behave obtusely. We've literally just had the labour party select an executive member who is a Zionist that denies white phosphorous was used by Israel, has been quoted by Israeli spies as being their friend, claims those suffering in Palestine are actors and thinks the United Nations is antisemitic. As well as heading up a group which is an Israel lobby. Do you not think this guy is going to have any influence on policies? Do you not think this NEC member who has been preventing and purging others from standing has no influence? Do you think the Labour Files which shows fabricated and overstated antisemitism claims is just made up? Have you watched it yet? Probably not. So if you are making false claims about an individual to try and force them out of office - is that not indirectly influencing policy? How do the labour policies in 2024 compare to 2017? Are they the same? I don't think they are Oggy. 3. No Oggy I literally said:"I don't believe you're islamaphobic either but the comments about the Al Jeezera documentary being produced by Muslims to attack Jews could very well be interpreted as islamaphobia. I think it was just ignorance on your part."
And yes you are weaponizing antisemitism as many others have also called you out. You accused me of all of the below: - "I don't follow why our tory government.... has been dictated by jews"
- "You sound like the nutters who complain about global jewish conspiracy"
- "Labour policy isn't dictated by jews"
- "What have you got against jews?"
- "You seem to have an agenda"In response to me saying this about Israels influence on british politics: "Uhm have you watched the Labour files? They pretty much ran a smear campaign filled with lies and fiction against the last Labour leader.
That affects everything from NHS through to housing.
Maybe you should take the time to watch the Labour files."
Where did I say tory government is dictated by jews?
Where did I push a global jewish conspiracy? Where did I say labour policy is dictated by jews? Where did I say anything about jews? You weaponised antisemitism implying I said jews run the world and dictate tory policies, dictate labour policies and I have an agenda against jewish people. Because why... because I pointed out that Israel lobbyists have and do influence UK politics? Because I'm literally saying "Oh Oggy have you seen the biggest leak in british politics history promoted by this group where everyone is jewish - why don't you give it a watch and see if you think Israel influences politics?" Is this anti christian? bylinetimes.com/2024/05/24/prime-minister-told-to-defend-the-uks-democracy-by-leading-security-body-amid-russian-interference-warning/Or is it ok to talk about Russian interference in politics and not hate christians or think christians rule the world or that they dictate policy? Or is that just a load of muslims attacking christians and that's fake news? 4. Sounds like it's a you problem then. Or are you the victim and everyone else is wrong?
5. Cool. Your entitled to that opinion. Have you watched or read up on The Lobby or The Labour Files yet? Or do you not want to consume information which challenges your beliefs? Isn't the best way to prove it is wrong by debating the contents of it. It's a bit like denying Hamas attacked Israel on October 7th but then refusing to read any of the news articles or videos related to it. It's ignorance and burying your head in the sand while accusing those who have made an effort to be informed on the subjects of being antisemitic.
6. YOU WILL NOT ACCEPT THE PERSONAL ABUSE? YOU? Your the person that started accusing and labelling people as hating jews, not me. I put your despicable comments down to ignorance but simply said they could be interpreted as Islamophobic. Please provide evidence of me being personal abusive. And also please provide evidence of where I said jews dictate policy and had an agenda against jews. Of course I'm going to defend myself when you attempt to smear me. But I have not at all personally abused you in any way shape or form - certainly no worse than what you've done to me.
7. No oggy I am triggered by people manipulating what I said and trying to smear me and it's not only me who has noticed it and called it out either. Why did you edit the post I quoted to omit words? What was the purpose or incentive behind that?
Yet again you lie and intentionally and maliciously misrepresent what has been written and run a personal attack on me rather than enter into a debate or discussion. You say something, someone disagrees and then rather than try to justify your point you become abusive. You have rewritten history above. From above, it sounds like you are accusing me of the same. Fair enough. Going back to the original point, I don’t believe Jews (or Israel) have a huge sway over British politics. That was the point I originally made to Adri. You referred to the Labour files and saying it affects everything (from NHS to housing). I disagree. I have asked repeatedly for examples and I got called all sorts names for it I apologise for the provocative things I said. But to say Jews or Israel are “affecting everything “ does sound like a conspiracy theorist type of thing to say! I’m sorry if you disagree or are offended by me saying that but it does sound ridiculously over the top and the type of thing idiots like Tommy Robinson say about Muslims. I think it's quite unfair of you to accuse me of misrepresenting you and rewriting history considering you've been challenged multiple times on editing the message I replied to, to make it look worse. When challenged you continually just ignore that - and now I'm the person rewriting history. You antagonised the situation. I don't agree on the Al Jazeera bit but better to just draw a line under it all. I think the USA also has alot of influence on uk politics. And if you were to disagree with that then religion wouldnt come onto it. Israel is accountable for its actions, having a state religion of Judaism has no bearing on that. In terms of Tommy Robinson - I believe he is paid to stir up hate. There have been leaks of him receiving large sums from powerful people and considering he never works... Laurence Fox is another one. A failed actor starting his own political party and getting 5 million in donations from Crystal Palace owner. Guys not worked for ages and is constantly getting fines in court for various offenses but seems to live a comfortable lifestyle stirring stuff on twitter. Gideon Falter another one who has been caught out purposely stirring up trouble and lives a cushy life. I'm sorry for arguing and reacting badly but personally I think antisemitism gets weaponised and it's quite convenient that suddenly everyone is an antisemite when Israel commits war crimes. Religion has no bearing on my opinions.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 2, 2024 16:26:17 GMT
Yet again you lie and intentionally and maliciously misrepresent what has been written and run a personal attack on me rather than enter into a debate or discussion. You say something, someone disagrees and then rather than try to justify your point you become abusive. You have rewritten history above. From above, it sounds like you are accusing me of the same. Fair enough. Going back to the original point, I don’t believe Jews (or Israel) have a huge sway over British politics. That was the point I originally made to Adri. You referred to the Labour files and saying it affects everything (from NHS to housing). I disagree. I have asked repeatedly for examples and I got called all sorts names for it I apologise for the provocative things I said. But to say Jews or Israel are “affecting everything “ does sound like a conspiracy theorist type of thing to say! I’m sorry if you disagree or are offended by me saying that but it does sound ridiculously over the top and the type of thing idiots like Tommy Robinson say about Muslims. I think it's quite unfair of you to accuse me of misrepresenting you and rewriting history considering you've been challenged multiple times on editing the message I replied to, to make it look worse. When challenged you continually just ignore that - and now I'm the person rewriting history. You antagonised the situation. I don't agree on the Al Jazeera bit but better to just draw a line under it all. I think the USA also has alot of influence on uk politics. And if you were to disagree with that then religion wouldnt come onto it. Israel is accountable for its actions, having a state religion of Judaism has no bearing on that. In terms of Tommy Robinson - I believe he is paid to stir up hate. There have been leaks of him receiving large sums from powerful people and considering he never works... Laurence Fox is another one. A failed actor starting his own political party and getting 5 million in donations from Crystal Palace owner. Guys not worked for ages and is constantly getting fines in court for various offenses but seems to live a comfortable lifestyle stirring stuff on twitter. Gideon Falter another one who has been caught out purposely stirring up trouble and lives a cushy life. I'm sorry for arguing and reacting badly but personally I think antisemitism gets weaponised and it's quite convenient that suddenly everyone is an antisemite when Israel commits war crimes. Religion has no bearing on my opinions. FWIW, I don't think he remotely deserves a reply with such good grace from yourself. Astonishing that you felt the need to apologise to him, when it is actually you that has been consistently wronged throughout the entire exchange. Fair play.
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Post by gawa on Jun 2, 2024 16:31:53 GMT
I think it's quite unfair of you to accuse me of misrepresenting you and rewriting history considering you've been challenged multiple times on editing the message I replied to, to make it look worse. When challenged you continually just ignore that - and now I'm the person rewriting history. You antagonised the situation. I don't agree on the Al Jazeera bit but better to just draw a line under it all. I think the USA also has alot of influence on uk politics. And if you were to disagree with that then religion wouldnt come onto it. Israel is accountable for its actions, having a state religion of Judaism has no bearing on that. In terms of Tommy Robinson - I believe he is paid to stir up hate. There have been leaks of him receiving large sums from powerful people and considering he never works... Laurence Fox is another one. A failed actor starting his own political party and getting 5 million in donations from Crystal Palace owner. Guys not worked for ages and is constantly getting fines in court for various offenses but seems to live a comfortable lifestyle stirring stuff on twitter. Gideon Falter another one who has been caught out purposely stirring up trouble and lives a cushy life. I'm sorry for arguing and reacting badly but personally I think antisemitism gets weaponised and it's quite convenient that suddenly everyone is an antisemite when Israel commits war crimes. Religion has no bearing on my opinions. FWIW, I don't think he remotely deserves a reply with such good grace from yourself. Astonishing that you felt the need to apologise to him, when it is actually you that has been consistently wronged throughout the entire exchange. Fair play. The only thing we can control is our own actions. Can always reflect on ourselves and do things better in my opinion. It's nice to be nice as we'd say over here.
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Post by atillathehoneybee on Jun 2, 2024 17:06:44 GMT
So Sir Kier. What are you going to do about net migration.. " I'm bringing it down" And how are you going to do that. " By reducing it"
Any indication by how many. "A few"
Can you be more specific.
" Several "
And this twat is going to be PM in about 6 weeks
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Post by mrcoke on Jun 2, 2024 17:10:08 GMT
Back to policy, is anyone else confused by what the Labour GB Energy proposal is? I'm sure there's smarter people than me on here that can explain but am I right in saying it's an "investment vehicle" for the private sector with no physical assests? I doubt I'm smarter but this is what I posted a few weeks ago in response to a similar question Regarding Great British Energy GBE it will be modeled on France’s EDF, Germany’s EnBW and Sweden’s Vattenfall It is not a Nationalisation of existing Energy Companies but would be a Government owned Company with operational independence, but with a mandate to invest in clean energy, wind, solar, tidal, nuclear and other emerging technologies. Labour's strategy for GBE is clever in my mind a) they plan to invest in renewable technologies that are already proven and can start making a difference right now, and b) they will invest in emerging, innovative energy technologies. This dual approach aims to balance immediate needs with future advancements. b) is obviously a riskier investment but with risks come rewards but is less likely to happen in the Private Sector although it doesn't preclude Private Investment/Partnership The overall aim is fourfold a) insulate UK from Market Shocks we saw recently but not in other Countries who have Public Energy Companies b) provide UK Energy Security c) meet UK 2030 Climate Change commitments and d) in the future sell excess Energy to return Profits to Treasury For far too long successive Governments have made short term populists decisions to get re-elected. As any household will tell you it may have ambitious plans to increase its wealth and security but it is restrained by its available Budget and it's ability to Borrow and finance that borrowing. Households also know that for long term gain you have to make short term choices of how you spend your Budget. Until UK Inc breaks the cycle of low growth and productivity to create additional headroom to invest in Public Services we will be trapped in a vortex of doing the same thing over and over with predictable results and it doesn't take an Einstein to understand that GBE will certainly own Pysical Assests either 100% or in Partnership with Private Investors and/or Energy Technology Companies France's EDF is nationalised: www.neimagazine.com/news/french-government-wins-court-approval-for-edf-nationalisation-10830185/#:~:text=In%202022%2C%20President%20Emmanuel%20Macron,government%20cap%20on%20electricity%20prices. The company also has massive debts and apart from leaving that debt to future French generations there is little matter of cleaning away scores of nuclear power stations. God help them. I agree that the UK needs to break out of decades of low growth and productivity. The best chance of that is being out of the EU and not funding and investing in other countries economies, and building trade with the faster growing >80% of the world economy that is not in the EU. Since Brexit investment has increased to levels not seen since the last century as a % GDP; the low unemployment not seen since the 1970s, high wage increases and job vacancies will drive investment in automation/robotics/AI to boost productivity now that freedom of movement has stopped. I'm listening to the news on TV saying migration is at record levels. Why? Because there are loads of vacant jobs that need doing, loads of foreign students, and their dependants. So who are we going to stop migrating to this country? We can't stop the illegal ones, never mind the legal ones.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 2, 2024 17:21:11 GMT
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Post by knype on Jun 2, 2024 17:24:13 GMT
Same old, same old
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 2, 2024 17:28:22 GMT
I wonder if this has ever happened before? 😂
He has been chased out of his own campaign launch by his own CLP.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2024 17:55:59 GMT
I wonder if this has ever happened before? 😂 He has been chased out of his own campaign launch by his own CLP. To be fair, the “protestors blocking his car” amount to about 12 people. It’s hardly a major revolt.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 2, 2024 18:15:32 GMT
I wonder if this has ever happened before? 😂 He has been chased out of his own campaign launch by his own CLP. To be fair, the “protestors blocking his car” amount to about 12 people. It’s hardly a major revolt. What would you consider to be a 'major revolt' in your opinion, at a Community Cente hosting somebody's campaign launch, that was actually supposed to be hosting a child's birthday party today, until Akehurst cancelled it?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2024 18:26:42 GMT
To be fair, the “protestors blocking his car” amount to about 12 people. It’s hardly a major revolt. What would you consider to be a 'major revolt' in your opinion, at a Community Cente hosting somebody's campaign launch, that was actually supposed to be hosting a child's birthday party today, until Akehurst cancelled it? I would probably say that a “major revolt” would occur if: 1) half the town came out and trashed his campaign 2) hundreds of people turned up with banners saying “piss off you war-mongering turd”. There’s 25,000 people in Chester-le-Street, and 12 people stood around a car with flags. It just doesn’t look like that many people care, one way or the other.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 2, 2024 18:33:32 GMT
What would you consider to be a 'major revolt' in your opinion, at a Community Cente hosting somebody's campaign launch, that was actually supposed to be hosting a child's birthday party today, until Akehurst cancelled it? I would probably say that a “major revolt” would occur if: 1) half the town came out and trashed his campaign 2) hundreds of people turned up with banners saying “piss off you war-mongering turd”. There’s 25,000 people in Chester-le-Street, and 12 people stood around a car with flags. It just doesn’t look like that many people care, one way or the other. But that isn't what the tweet was about was it? It's only YOU who has introduced a notion of a major revolt by the town, isn't it? The tweet was about the reaction of his CLP. If he had been an ELECTED local candidate, there would have been dozens in support of him and I know that one of these is his wife and it has been suggested that some of the others are Labour councillors, although I obviously can't confirm that but still ...
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Post by henry on Jun 2, 2024 18:39:34 GMT
So Sir Kier. What are you going to do about net migration.. " I'm bringing it down" And how are you going to do that. " By reducing it" Any indication by how many. "A few" Can you be more specific. " Several " And this twat is going to be PM in about 6 weeks It's beyond scary.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2024 18:39:42 GMT
I would probably say that a “major revolt” would occur if: 1) half the town came out and trashed his campaign 2) hundreds of people turned up with banners saying “piss off you war-mongering turd”. There’s 25,000 people in Chester-le-Street, and 12 people stood around a car with flags. It just doesn’t look like that many people care, one way or the other. But that isn't what the tweet was about was it? It's only YOU who has introduced a notion of a major revolt by the town, isn't it? The tweet was about the reaction of his CLP. If he had been an ELECTED local candidate, there would have been dozens in support of him and I know that one of these is his wife and it has been suggested that some of the others are Labour councillors, although I obviously can't confirm that but still ... The guy in the tweet was saying that he was “chased out” because he was so offensive. I agree, he is offensive. I hope that Labour use someone else, but 12 people standing around a car waving Palestinian flags isn’t that telling of anything. You asked me what a major revolt would look like. I answered. If people in the area were so angered about the person who may well represent them, I’d just expect it to be a little more visible to be honest. It’s almost as if few people really give a shit. I know nothing about him barring what has been put on here. He seems to have been thrown into a bit of a safe seat and has used his own position on the NEC to do so. Despite all of the inflammatory comments he’s made and tried to hide, I still think that if he ran, he’d win. Do you think differently?
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Post by atillathehoneybee on Jun 2, 2024 18:44:32 GMT
Fair play to him. His plan to cut the time people are on a NHS waiting list is to only count working days. So a 70 day wait actually become 50.. Genius.
And to cut the actual length of queues of ambulances waiting to get into A & E Is brilliant.
3 patients per ambulance..
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 2, 2024 18:47:18 GMT
But that isn't what the tweet was about was it? It's only YOU who has introduced a notion of a major revolt by the town, isn't it? The tweet was about the reaction of his CLP. If he had been an ELECTED local candidate, there would have been dozens in support of him and I know that one of these is his wife and it has been suggested that some of the others are Labour councillors, although I obviously can't confirm that but still ... The guy in the tweet was saying that he was “chased out” because he was so offensive. I agree, he is offensive. I hope that Labour use someone else, but 12 people standing around a car waving Palestinian flags isn’t that telling of anything. You asked me what a major revolt would look like. I answered. If people in the area were so angered about the person who may well represent them, I’d just expect it to be a little more visible to be honest. It’s almost as if few people really give a shit. I know nothing about him barring what has been put on here. He seems to have been thrown into a bit of a safe seat and has used his own position on the NEC to do so. Despite all of the inflammatory comments he’s made and tried to hide, I still think that if he ran, he’d win. Do you think differently? No, I asked you what you thought a major revolt would look like in a COMMUNITY CENTRE that was being hosted by the local CLP and you went off on a massive tangent, which was nothing to do with the original tweet. Do I think he'd win? I sincerely hope not but he has parachuted himself into the safest of safest seats, so you would expect him to. Having said that, his campaign launch has clearly not gone anything like that he was hoping for.
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