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Post by adri2008 on Jan 23, 2024 11:30:41 GMT
I think there are times when the Labour party is led too heavily into nostalgia. It would be the easiest thing in the world to go into the next general election just saying ‘worst crisis in NHS history’, ‘you can’t trust the Tories on the NHS’, ‘you’ve got 24 hours to save the NHS’ and, by the way, here’s a nice sepia film of Nye Bevan
You can’t just keep on pouring ever-increasing amounts of money into a leaky bucket, you’ve got to deal with the bucket itself.
Wes Streeting going off message. He'll have core supporters frothing at the mouth with the audacity of suggesting any sort of reform but I actually respect his dose of realism when it comes to the NHS.
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Post by wannabee on Jan 23, 2024 12:07:26 GMT
I think there are times when the Labour party is led too heavily into nostalgia. It would be the easiest thing in the world to go into the next general election just saying ‘worst crisis in NHS history’, ‘you can’t trust the Tories on the NHS’, ‘you’ve got 24 hours to save the NHS’ and, by the way, here’s a nice sepia film of Nye Bevan
You can’t just keep on pouring ever-increasing amounts of money into a leaky bucket, you’ve got to deal with the bucket itself.Wes Streeting going off message. He'll have core supporters frothing at the mouth with the audacity of suggesting any sort of reform but I actually respect his dose of realism when it comes to the NHS. It would be foolish for any Organisation, Company, Football Team etc that it was operating at optimum efficiency We can see in Football terms the Teams with the biggest Budget are usually,not always, the most successful. After that it comes down to competent management Per Capita UK spends 18% less than it's EU Peer Group so you'd expect a mid to lower ranking of outcome www.health.org.uk/news-and-comment/charts-and-infographics/how-does-uk-health-spending-compare-across-europe-over-the-past-decadeThis provides a dichotomy as people want lower taxes and better Public Services of which we have neither That being the case the available pot of money is being used elsewhere in a Political Choice Streeting saying NHS needs reform is a truism and appeals to soft Tory Voters If Streeting had said Labour would raise taxes to close the per capita health spend it would be Political Suicide Labours message is they will implement policies to increase productivity leading to greater wealth to be distributed but not increase taxes. Whether they can pull it off remains to be seen if/when they get an opportunity.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jan 23, 2024 12:23:17 GMT
I think there are times when the Labour party is led too heavily into nostalgia. It would be the easiest thing in the world to go into the next general election just saying ‘worst crisis in NHS history’, ‘you can’t trust the Tories on the NHS’, ‘you’ve got 24 hours to save the NHS’ and, by the way, here’s a nice sepia film of Nye Bevan
You can’t just keep on pouring ever-increasing amounts of money into a leaky bucket, you’ve got to deal with the bucket itself.Wes Streeting going off message. He'll have core supporters frothing at the mouth with the audacity of suggesting any sort of reform but I actually respect his dose of realism when it comes to the NHS. I'm always cynical when that "healthy dose of realism" comes around the same time he's taken nearly £200k worth donations from people with links to the private health care industry though.........
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Post by adri2008 on Jan 23, 2024 13:27:28 GMT
I think there are times when the Labour party is led too heavily into nostalgia. It would be the easiest thing in the world to go into the next general election just saying ‘worst crisis in NHS history’, ‘you can’t trust the Tories on the NHS’, ‘you’ve got 24 hours to save the NHS’ and, by the way, here’s a nice sepia film of Nye Bevan
You can’t just keep on pouring ever-increasing amounts of money into a leaky bucket, you’ve got to deal with the bucket itself.Wes Streeting going off message. He'll have core supporters frothing at the mouth with the audacity of suggesting any sort of reform but I actually respect his dose of realism when it comes to the NHS. Always makes me cynical when that "healthy dose of realism" comes around the same time he's taken nearly £200k worth donations from people with links to the private health care industry......... True of course, I just feel that increased investment needs to go hand in hand with a rethink on how the NHS delivers its care - particularly in how the elderly are cared for as these pressures will only increase in future. Only Labour can deliver such reforms as they have the in-built trust on the issue and are more likely to get cooperation rather than immediate loggerheads.
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Post by phileetin on Jan 23, 2024 15:27:44 GMT
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Post by cvillestokie on Jan 23, 2024 18:47:03 GMT
Unfortunately, with healthcare, you have to do both. You have to pay more (even just because of inflation) and you have to look for as many ways of reducing waste as possible. Without the NHS, I can’t see everyday people affording healthcare at the point of care. In the US, you can expect to pay around $15-25k for labour and delivery. With health insurance, that falls substantially. However, the average household will still be stumped with about $2-3k out of pocket. Median UK salary is around £35k and I see absolutely no reason to expect that a UK govt would deliver a good deal for privatization of healthcare.
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Post by iancransonsknees on Jan 23, 2024 18:53:20 GMT
I think there are times when the Labour party is led too heavily into nostalgia. It would be the easiest thing in the world to go into the next general election just saying ‘worst crisis in NHS history’, ‘you can’t trust the Tories on the NHS’, ‘you’ve got 24 hours to save the NHS’ and, by the way, here’s a nice sepia film of Nye Bevan
You can’t just keep on pouring ever-increasing amounts of money into a leaky bucket, you’ve got to deal with the bucket itself.Wes Streeting going off message. He'll have core supporters frothing at the mouth with the audacity of suggesting any sort of reform but I actually respect his dose of realism when it comes to the NHS. I have to agree, the anecdotal stories I hear from people working for it all end up with the summary that it's too top heavy, a jobs for the girls culture at certain levels and massive amounts of waste.
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Post by iancransonsknees on Jan 23, 2024 18:57:12 GMT
Unfortunately, with healthcare, you have to do both. You have to pay more (even just because of inflation) and you have to look for as many ways of reducing waste as possible. Without the NHS, I can’t see everyday people affording healthcare at the point of care. In the US, you can expect to pay around $15-25k for labour and delivery. With health insurance, that falls substantially. However, the average household will still be stumped with about $2-3k out of pocket. Median UK salary is around £35k and I see absolutely no reason to expect that a UK govt would deliver a good deal for privatization of healthcare. How many people actually pay sufficient NI to substitute that amount for private health cover? There would appear to be a lot of people falling through the net if that were the case. The net needs to be there but it needs significant scrutiny and reform. I think I've said before that I'm lucky enough to have private health cover but the GPs and receptionists even are loathe to even make an appointment or provide a referral when you try to take advantage of it.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 31, 2024 0:05:39 GMT
He's so out of touch, it's frightening ...
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Post by wannabee on Jan 31, 2024 1:23:16 GMT
He's so out of touch, it's frightening ... Labour Party Policy dictated by Focus Group and Outreach Polling not Conviction, Good Grief I doubt Starmer would lose any sleep if Rayner lost her seat as long as he was installed in No 10 after GE
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 31, 2024 13:43:21 GMT
Believe you me, this sentiment is being expressed all over the country.
Starmer needs to be very, very careful ...
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Post by cvillestokie on Jan 31, 2024 14:03:27 GMT
Believe you me, this sentiment is being expressed all over the country. Starmer needs to be very, very careful ... MP’s simply should not be allowed to abstain on a vote. At the end of the year, their salary should be measured against the full number of votes taken that legislative year (100%). They should then be docked salary for every vote that they decide to abstain or not bother to attend. Abstaining on a vote shows a weak politician too scared to go with their beliefs or those of their constituency. They are a disgrace.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jan 31, 2024 15:34:50 GMT
He's so out of touch, it's frightening ... Labour Party Policy dictated by Focus Group and Outreach Polling not Conviction, Good Grief I doubt Starmer would lose any sleep if Rayner lost her seat as long as he was installed in No 10 after GE He would have dumped Rayner by now if she hadn't been elected by the party as the Deputy Leader.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jan 31, 2024 15:36:00 GMT
Believe you me, this sentiment is being expressed all over the country. Starmer needs to be very, very careful ... He makes it increasingly difficult for me (despite the desperate need to get the Tories out) to vote Labour in the next GE.
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Post by gawa on Jan 31, 2024 17:31:41 GMT
Believe you me, this sentiment is being expressed all over the country. Starmer needs to be very, very careful ... The biggest reason to vote Labour right now is to keep the tories out. That's there selling point nothing else.
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Post by gawa on Jan 31, 2024 17:56:16 GMT
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Post by cvillestokie on Jan 31, 2024 19:03:18 GMT
I wonder if Cameron will continue his unelected post in the cabinet under Starmer?
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Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 1, 2024 8:41:36 GMT
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Post by wagsastokie on Feb 1, 2024 14:04:43 GMT
Anyway nice to starmer and his lickspittles have decided to keep bankers bonuses And not increase corporation tax
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 1, 2024 18:52:46 GMT
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Post by felonious on Feb 1, 2024 19:06:24 GMT
Anyway nice to starmer and his lickspittles have decided to keep bankers bonuses And not increase corporation tax The Treasury gets far more from paying bonuses to bankers rather than keeping the profits and paying Corporation tax. If Labour had any sense which they seem to have they will keep bankers bonuses and increase the rate of income tax and/or NI employer and employees on them. It's a no brainer. Whether individuals should earn such high levels of pay is a different question.
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Post by gawa on Feb 1, 2024 19:15:05 GMT
Anyway nice to starmer and his lickspittles have decided to keep bankers bonuses And not increase corporation tax The Treasury gets far more from paying bonuses to bankers rather than keeping the profits and paying Corporation tax. If Labour had any sense which they seem to have they will keep bankers bonuses and increase the rate of income tax and/or NI employer and employees on them. It's a no brainer. Whether individuals should earn such high levels of pay is a different question. The level of tax received is dependant on what the bankers do with it? Given these are knowledgeable people in the banking I imagine they'll be using whatever tricks are possible to pay as little tax as possible. So I imagine they'd be salary sacrificing the bonus and putting it into pensions and stuff tax free, or whatever other tricks to lower the tax they pay on it. With that taken into consideration, can we be sure it brings in more tax to the treasury? There's nothing preventing the banks from spreading the bonuses across more staff either. Just because there's a cap, I highly doubt the less senior non executive staff are getting comparable bonuses.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 1, 2024 19:16:03 GMT
Anyway nice to starmer and his lickspittles have decided to keep bankers bonuses And not increase corporation tax The Treasury gets far more from paying bonuses to bankers rather than keeping the profits and paying Corporation tax. If Labour had any sense which they seem to have they will keep bankers bonuses and increase the rate of income tax and/or NI employer and employees on them. It's a no brainer. Whether individuals should earn such high levels of pay is a different question. Agree with all of that but it shouldn't be forgotten, that one of the reasons a cap on banker's bonuses was originally introduced was in an attempt to curb over zealous speculation by traders.
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Post by adri2008 on Feb 2, 2024 10:47:26 GMT
Sounds like bugger all is actually going to change policy wise. We'll just have a more professional government which isn't bogged down by the various scandals/infighting that all governments eventually pick up over time.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 2, 2024 10:54:08 GMT
The Treasury gets far more from paying bonuses to bankers rather than keeping the profits and paying Corporation tax. If Labour had any sense which they seem to have they will keep bankers bonuses and increase the rate of income tax and/or NI employer and employees on them. It's a no brainer. Whether individuals should earn such high levels of pay is a different question. The level of tax received is dependant on what the bankers do with it? Given these are knowledgeable people in the banking I imagine they'll be using whatever tricks are possible to pay as little tax as possible. So I imagine they'd be salary sacrificing the bonus and putting it into pensions and stuff tax free, or whatever other tricks to lower the tax they pay on it. With that taken into consideration, can we be sure it brings in more tax to the treasury? There's nothing preventing the banks from spreading the bonuses across more staff either. Just because there's a cap, I highly doubt the less senior non executive staff are getting comparable bonuses. Why the cynicism? These bankers have never done anything underhand previously.......
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Post by oggyoggy on Feb 2, 2024 11:55:53 GMT
Sounds like bugger all is actually going to change policy wise. We'll just have a more professional government which isn't bogged down by the various scandals/infighting that all governments eventually pick up over time. Which would certainly be an improvement, but that isn’t saying much at all. Electoral reform is needed!
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Post by redstriper on Feb 2, 2024 13:04:58 GMT
Anybody know what Starmers thoughts are on this ? Is he going to help the working man, as opposed the disincentivised/idle one ? better off on benefits
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Post by OldStokie on Feb 2, 2024 14:09:54 GMT
Starmer should keep his gob shut. This crazy lot potentially have a main budget and an Autumn Statement before they're kicked out and I'm pretty sure they'll do everything they can to derail anything Starmer has planned. I don't think he's very clever. He's had to abandon most of the pledges he made when he became leader, and even now he's having to draw back on some of the things he's said since. He's most certainly not an intellectual.
OS.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 3, 2024 11:09:27 GMT
This is genuinely just plain wrong ...
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Post by wagsastokie on Feb 3, 2024 12:13:38 GMT
This is genuinely just plain wrong ... It’s getting a tad to George Orwell Worrying times
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