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Post by crouchpotato1 on Jul 6, 2020 15:18:21 GMT
16 deaths am I reading that right? Decent is that finally the numbers are dropping off a cliff....... Yes you are and the number of positive tests is encouraging also
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 6, 2020 15:18:38 GMT
So what does our government stand to gain, by having a (perceived) greater amount of control of the public at large, in exchange for choosing (your inference) to crash it's economy? Why would they even do that (deliberately)? If this isn't about health but about control, then what does this greater amount of control give them, that makes it worth destroying their own country's economy? What makes it worth it? It's certainly hard to see what the first ministers of Scotland and Wales stand to gain by their continued draconian measures in the wake of today's announcements of 4 cases and 0 deaths in Scotland (mandatory muzzles in shops in a week or so) and 8 cases and 0 deaths in Wales? Looks pretty sinister to me. Go on then, elaborate on sinister, what's their master plan mate?
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Post by Davef on Jul 6, 2020 15:22:10 GMT
It's certainly hard to see what the first ministers of Scotland and Wales stand to gain by their continued draconian measures in the wake of today's announcements of 4 cases and 0 deaths in Scotland (mandatory muzzles in shops in a week or so) and 8 cases and 0 deaths in Wales? Looks pretty sinister to me. Go on then, elaborate on sinister, what's their master plan mate? I just explained it in my previous post Paul. Restrictions on travel, contact with family members and the mandatory wearing of masks. It's completely unjustified.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Jul 6, 2020 15:29:42 GMT
Playing politics? Being very cautious so it doesn't come back to bite us? I wouldn't call it sinister. At least not in the starkiller sense of the word. There may well be some politics behind it though, especially for Sturgeon who no doubt wants to be seen as doing her own thing in her own country. Stopping people driving more than five miles? Preventing family members from outside your own home from visiting and physical contact? Forcing people to wear masks? I'd call that sinister. I would have though Sturgeon's agenda was forcing Covid down to zero and being able to declare Scotland 'Covid Free'. If England then remains a shitshow or gets a second wave that Scotlsnd doesn't it then fits the independence narrative of 'Do you want to be governed by someone who can keep you safe or those bastards in Westminster who don't give a fuck for your health or welfare?". That may be playing politics but hardly sinister. Certainly a lot less sinister than say - the Cummings App, the uncompetitive awards of PPE contracts to almost non existant companies or the repression of the Russia Dossier down here in England.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 6, 2020 15:30:06 GMT
Any ideas where to look now for the number of hospital admissions Mutters? Cheers
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Jul 6, 2020 15:33:05 GMT
Any ideas where to look now for the number of hospital admissions Mutters? Cheers No mate I haven’t sorry
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 6, 2020 15:34:02 GMT
Go on then, elaborate on sinister, what's their master plan mate? I just explained it in my previous post Paul. Restrictions on travel, contact with family members and the mandatory wearing of masks. It's completely unjustified. That's not 'sinister' though, in the way that Starkiller was on about a conspiracy to control the public by introducing a lock down that would crash the economy. It can be argued that the measures you've listed are 'unjustified' or just plain wrong but 'sinister' implies that they have a separate agenda, over and above protecting the nation's health.
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Post by Davef on Jul 6, 2020 15:35:52 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 6, 2020 15:35:52 GMT
Any ideas where to look now for the number of hospital admissions Mutters? Cheers No mate I haven’t sorry Thanks I've had a good look around but I'm beginning to suspect that they've stopped publishing them.
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Post by mtrstudent on Jul 6, 2020 15:36:38 GMT
Arizona opened up early "to save the economy!1" and now they're closing some things down again. My girlfriend's a medical resident there and is doing 7 days in a row of waking up at 4:30 am and finishing sometime between 8:30 and 11:30 pm. It sucks. Judging by the data and some of the graphs, it looks to me that some US states actually closed too early, then became complacent and didn't expect the virus to hit them as hard as other states. They had basically no testing, the UK was the same and locked down too late. The difference is that Arizona still hasn't sorted itself out and doesn't have enough testing. I'm not sure about Arizona going too early, the surging outbreak suggests that they had a lot of community transmission going on, but they didn't lock down long enough to get numbers low enough or use the time to get testing sorted out. It's all about the R number though, I think people's attitudes matter a lot. I bet Sweden doesn't have as many "muh freedoms" people as Arizona, who refuse to pop a mask on or keep away from folks.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 6, 2020 15:38:55 GMT
You see those figures are brilliant, so why would the Government no longer publish them on their official site? You think they'd want as much good news out there as possible.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2020 15:40:33 GMT
Less than 400 new cases is also good news. They staggered at around the 1k mark not so long ago, glad to see them coming down sharply.
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Post by ColonelMustard on Jul 6, 2020 15:54:31 GMT
Honestly if you are looking for a conspiracy then money supply is right there wanting your attention. The US doesnt have to balance its books at all and the UK only within reason. The only reason the facade is maintained is to justify grotesque inequality and all the trappings and power that gives the beneficiaries. The idea that this pandemic is a vehicle for Bill Gates to make a few quid from a vaccine or for the states of the world to gain contril through lockdown (where a few of the worlds most right wing loons have opposed lockdowns) is a waste of everyones energy. Covid has just been a shit show that illustrates exactly how little overall control and organisation there really is. Imo of course. In fact its possible this situation will actually blow the lid off the money supply conspiracy, which is exactly what is not wanted by the powers that be. We shall see.
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Post by heworksardtho on Jul 6, 2020 16:03:09 GMT
Went the Brit to get tested today , we were in and out in ten mins , like a ghost town , only us and one other car , told us nobody going hardly must be costing thousands for all the staff standing around
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Post by wagsastokie on Jul 6, 2020 16:24:08 GMT
I'm more concerned if the yanks actually got bin laden They did. They had to. He knew far too much about the faked moon landings. I always thought that moon surface looked to much like the afgan desert
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 6, 2020 16:30:49 GMT
Playing politics? Being very cautious so it doesn't come back to bite us? I wouldn't call it sinister. At least not in the starkiller sense of the word. There may well be some politics behind it though, especially for Sturgeon who no doubt wants to be seen as doing her own thing in her own country. Stopping people driving more than five miles? Preventing family members from outside your own home from visiting and physical contact? Forcing people to wear masks? I'd call that sinister. I'd call it trying to stop a virus spreading as best they can, without really knowing what will work because no-one's really done anything on this scale before, so much of it will be suck it and see, which is presumably why different countries have had different amounts of success based on different approaches, but I guess that's just us coming at it from different perspectives. If it was all a sinister conspiracy you'd have thought they'd have got their ducks in a row so that each country was doing the same thing - or would that be what they'd want us to think?! I really don't subscribe to this sinister control aspect at all. But, as I said to starkiller yesterday, we'll see how much our lives have changed in a couple of years' time. If it is all about control then we'll no doubt still be experiencing it and our lives as we knew them will have changed irredeemably. My suspicion is not, but we'll see.
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Post by Davef on Jul 6, 2020 16:50:03 GMT
Stopping people driving more than five miles? Preventing family members from outside your own home from visiting and physical contact? Forcing people to wear masks? I'd call that sinister. I'd call it trying to stop a virus spreading as best they can, without really knowing what will work because no-one's really done anything on this scale before, so much of it will be suck it and see, which is presumably why different countries have had different amounts of success based on different approaches, but I guess that's just us coming at it from different perspectives. If it was all a sinister conspiracy you'd have thought they'd have got their ducks in a row so that each country was doing the same thing - or would that be what they'd want us to think?! I really don't subscribe to this sinister control aspect at all. But, as I said to starkiller yesterday, we'll see how much our lives have changed in a couple of years' time. If it is all about control then we'll no doubt still be experiencing it and our lives as we knew them will have changed irredeemably. My suspicion is not, but we'll see. Okay, I accept that 'sinister' was the wrong word to use, but we're now at a point where the virus is not spreading at all in the U.K. and three of the countries are now consistently recording no deaths. The lockdown was sold to the public (and accepted) because of the need to flatten the curve and make sure the NHS wasn't overwhelmed. We are now so far past that situation that there is absolutely no justification for many of the restrictions to still be in place, and in Scotland's case taking further draconian measures.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jul 6, 2020 16:57:16 GMT
lying bastard...
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Post by starkiller on Jul 6, 2020 17:04:54 GMT
I just explained it in my previous post Paul. Restrictions on travel, contact with family members and the mandatory wearing of masks. It's completely unjustified. That's not 'sinister' though, in the way that Starkiller was on about a conspiracy to control the public by introducing a lock down that would crash the economy. It can be argued that the measures you've listed are 'unjustified' or just plain wrong but 'sinister' implies that they have a separate agenda, over and above protecting the nation's health. I didn't say it was specifically about the economy. I was responding to a question about crashed economies, and said that there are always folk that can benefit from such a scenario. Of course, it could be considered as one of many motives, but I didn't say it specifically was this. We are discussing possibilities here, beyond it simply being about health. It seems that some folk wish to establish a concrete motive before even considering the idea that the information they are receiving is not entirely correct. Actually, I think it would be even more diffcult to present a theory that health was the utmost priority when five million people await pretty necessary, or life changing, medical care. This situation is extremely concerning and will eventually kill more than the supposed Covid19. And the voices or representation of these individuals have been practically silenced by the media. As stated by more than just me, this lockdown will eventually kill more than the supposed Covid19.
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Post by ColonelMustard on Jul 6, 2020 17:49:30 GMT
That's not 'sinister' though, in the way that Starkiller was on about a conspiracy to control the public by introducing a lock down that would crash the economy. It can be argued that the measures you've listed are 'unjustified' or just plain wrong but 'sinister' implies that they have a separate agenda, over and above protecting the nation's health. I didn't say it was specifically about the economy. I was responding to a question about crashed economies, and said that there are always folk that can benefit from such a scenario. Of course, it could be considered as one of many motives, but I didn't say it specifically was this. We are discussing possibilities here, beyond it simply being about health. It seems that some folk wish to establish a concrete motive before even considering the idea that the information they are receiving is not entirely correct. Actually, I think it would be even more diffcult to present a theory that health was the utmost priority when five million people await pretty necessary, or life changing, medical care. This situation is extremely concerning and will eventually kill more than the supposed Covid19. And the voices or representation of these individuals have been practically silenced by the media. As stated by more than just me, this lockdown will eventually kill more than the supposed Covid19. Ok. So putting motive to one side for a second, what about the actors. Who's in on it? The worlds biggest governments have responded in different ways. A few big players in complete denial. Others totally locking down. I dont see any pattern. Maybe you do. I can only see risk for powerful interests in the unrest and change. Whether lockdown will kill more people/ do more damage/ was worth it is a decent question and worth considering.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Jul 6, 2020 19:21:26 GMT
I didn't say it was specifically about the economy. I was responding to a question about crashed economies, and said that there are always folk that can benefit from such a scenario. Of course, it could be considered as one of many motives, but I didn't say it specifically was this. We are discussing possibilities here, beyond it simply being about health. It seems that some folk wish to establish a concrete motive before even considering the idea that the information they are receiving is not entirely correct. Actually, I think it would be even more diffcult to present a theory that health was the utmost priority when five million people await pretty necessary, or life changing, medical care. This situation is extremely concerning and will eventually kill more than the supposed Covid19. And the voices or representation of these individuals have been practically silenced by the media. As stated by more than just me, this lockdown will eventually kill more than the supposed Covid19. Ok. So putting motive to one side for a second, what about the actors. Who's in on it? The worlds biggest governments have responded in different ways. A few big players in complete denial. Others totally locking down. I dont see any pattern. Maybe you do. I can only see risk for powerful interests in the unrest and change. Whether lockdown will kill more people/ do more damage/ was worth it is a decent question and worth considering. The Swedes obviously never got the global population control memo...
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Post by smallthorner on Jul 6, 2020 19:34:05 GMT
Stopping people driving more than five miles? Preventing family members from outside your own home from visiting and physical contact? Forcing people to wear masks? I'd call that sinister. I'd call it trying to stop a virus spreading as best they can, without really knowing what will work because no-one's really done anything on this scale before, so much of it will be suck it and see, which is presumably why different countries have had different amounts of success based on different approaches, but I guess that's just us coming at it from different perspectives. If it was all a sinister conspiracy you'd have thought they'd have got their ducks in a row so that each country was doing the same thing - or would that be what they'd want us to think?! I really don't subscribe to this sinister control aspect at all. But, as I said to starkiller yesterday, we'll see how much our lives have changed in a couple of years' time. If it is all about control then we'll no doubt still be experiencing it and our lives as we knew them will have changed irredeemably. My suspicion is not, but we'll see. Absolutely. There is no doubt that this Government has handled this crisis abysmally.. Their communication and instructions have been crappy and ambiguous at best. But, it has to be said they have done well with the furlough and job protection schemes. To say it is some worldwide conspiracy is ludicrous. This bug hasn't died yet and it is too early to be taking liberties. The effects of this pandemic will take decades to sort and will have disastrous consequences on the nations health (outside of the virus itself) , mentally and physically. We will be in this until next spring earliest.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Jul 6, 2020 19:49:18 GMT
That's not 'sinister' though, in the way that Starkiller was on about a conspiracy to control the public by introducing a lock down that would crash the economy. It can be argued that the measures you've listed are 'unjustified' or just plain wrong but 'sinister' implies that they have a separate agenda, over and above protecting the nation's health. I didn't say it was specifically about the economy. I was responding to a question about crashed economies, and said that there are always folk that can benefit from such a scenario. Of course, it could be considered as one of many motives, but I didn't say it specifically was this. We are discussing possibilities here, beyond it simply being about health. It seems that some folk wish to establish a concrete motive before even considering the idea that the information they are receiving is not entirely correct. Actually, I think it would be even more diffcult to present a theory that health was the utmost priority when five million people await pretty necessary, or life changing, medical care. This situation is extremely concerning and will eventually kill more than the supposed Covid19. And the voices or representation of these individuals have been practically silenced by the media. As stated by more than just me, this lockdown will eventually kill more than the supposed Covid19. What do you mean by "supposed" Covid 19? That it doesn't actually exist?
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Post by thisisouryear on Jul 6, 2020 20:19:22 GMT
Stopping people driving more than five miles? Preventing family members from outside your own home from visiting and physical contact? Forcing people to wear masks? I'd call that sinister. I'd call it trying to stop a virus spreading as best they can, without really knowing what will work because no-one's really done anything on this scale before, so much of it will be suck it and see, which is presumably why different countries have had different amounts of success based on different approaches, but I guess that's just us coming at it from different perspectives. If it was all a sinister conspiracy you'd have thought they'd have got their ducks in a row so that each country was doing the same thing - or would that be what they'd want us to think?! I really don't subscribe to this sinister control aspect at all. But, as I said to starkiller yesterday, we'll see how much our lives have changed in a couple of years' time. If it is all about control then we'll no doubt still be experiencing it and our lives as we knew them will have changed irredeemably. My suspicion is not, but we'll see. You would think if the government wanted control they would pump more money into the police force rather than cutting it to the bone. 99.9% of people who have broke the law or rules won't have been caught and punished anyway. It hardly screams taking control does it.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 6, 2020 20:26:02 GMT
I'll just point out that it's well known and reported that other treatments have been put on hold while the NHS focussed on the acute crisis.
Panorama dedicated an entire programme on the effect on cancer treatments tonight. I think there has been an entirely understandable focus from the media on the coronavirus in the first instance (it's new) and now it appears to be receding the focus is rightly shifting onto other areas. I think saying the media has been silenced in that respect is not correct but does help promote a feeling of conspiracy if you're looking for it.
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Post by essexstokey on Jul 6, 2020 20:53:18 GMT
Boris Johnson criticised over care home comments link
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Post by Davef on Jul 6, 2020 21:10:00 GMT
I'll just point out that it's well known and reported that other treatments have been put on hold while the NHS focussed on the acute crisis. Panorama dedicated an entire programme on the effect on cancer treatments tonight. I think there has been an entirely understandable focus from the media on the coronavirus in the first instance (it's new) and now it appears to be receding the focus is rightly shifting onto other areas. I think saying the media has been silenced in that respect is not correct but does help promote a feeling of conspiracy if you're looking for it. We live in an era of 24 hour rolling news. There's more than enough time in the day for media to cover the Covid 19 crisis and hold the Government to account on the scandalous treatment of patients suffering from other diseases which will ultimately cut their lives short. I lost count of the number of times Peston, Kuenssberg, Rigby and the other non-entities wasted everybody's time asking trivial questions about when the lockdown was going to end when they could have pressed the Government on why they built several Nightingale hospitals which remained empty while cancer patients were denied life-saving treatment.
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Post by smallthorner on Jul 6, 2020 21:26:00 GMT
I'll just point out that it's well known and reported that other treatments have been put on hold while the NHS focussed on the acute crisis. Panorama dedicated an entire programme on the effect on cancer treatments tonight. I think there has been an entirely understandable focus from the media on the coronavirus in the first instance (it's new) and now it appears to be receding the focus is rightly shifting onto other areas. I think saying the media has been silenced in that respect is not correct but does help promote a feeling of conspiracy if you're looking for it. We live in an era of 24 hour rolling news. There's more than enough time in the day for media to cover the Covid 19 crisis and hold the Government to account on the scandalous treatment of patients suffering from other diseases which will ultimately cut their lives short. I lost count of the number of times Peston, Kuenssberg, Rigby and the other non-entities wasted everybody's time asking trivial questions about when the lockdown was going to end when they could have pressed the Government on why they built several Nightingale hospitals which remained empty while cancer patients were denied life-saving treatment. Look.. I'm a Tory bastard hater of the most vigorous.. But fuck me mate. This has been a catastrophe of unseen proportions and can you imagine if those hospitals had not been built and we had a surge of biblical numbers. Give it a rest.
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Post by Davef on Jul 6, 2020 21:51:21 GMT
We live in an era of 24 hour rolling news. There's more than enough time in the day for media to cover the Covid 19 crisis and hold the Government to account on the scandalous treatment of patients suffering from other diseases which will ultimately cut their lives short. I lost count of the number of times Peston, Kuenssberg, Rigby and the other non-entities wasted everybody's time asking trivial questions about when the lockdown was going to end when they could have pressed the Government on why they built several Nightingale hospitals which remained empty while cancer patients were denied life-saving treatment. Look.. I'm a Tory bastard hater of the most vigorous.. But fuck me mate. This has been a catastrophe of unseen proportions and can you imagine if those hospitals had not been built and we had a surge of biblical numbers. Give it a rest. You've completely missed my point there. We all know why the Nightingale hospitals were built. But the sight of them completely empty (the first one opened in early April) while thousands of people were denied vital treatment is nothing short of a national scandal. And our witless media has singularly failed to press the Government on why that is the case.
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Post by smallthorner on Jul 6, 2020 22:00:09 GMT
Look.. I'm a Tory bastard hater of the most vigorous.. But fuck me mate. This has been a catastrophe of unseen proportions and can you imagine if those hospitals had not been built and we had a surge of biblical numbers. Give it a rest. You've completely missed my point there. We all know why the Nightingale hospitals were built. But the sight of them completely empty while thousands of people were denied vital treatment is nothing short of a national scandal. And our witless media has singularly failed to press the Government on why that is the case. The Nightingale hospitals were built for a specific purpose. A makeshift temporary hospital in the event of a national emergency.. What dont you get about that??
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