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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Jun 2, 2020 10:58:40 GMT
Positive tests, ONS estimates of actual infections, daily deaths, excess deaths over norm...everything is off peak but has been stubbornly flat lining for a few weeks now. Unlike equivalent European countries we just can't seem to nail this fucker. I'm guessing it all comes down to the 'R' number in the end. I presume ours is perilously close to 1 , One and remains so. Question remains after 10 weeks of lock down how and where and why are we still getting 8000 new infections every day according to the ONS? Is there an estimated breakdown of how many of those new 8,000 infections are ... 1. People who caught the infection in hospital 2. Hospital staff 3. People in care homes 4. Care home staff ? If we knew this figure, then we'd be able to estimate how wide the spread is in the community. The latest figures from the ONS suggest 0.24% infection in the community. When extrapolated out this is ~130k over two weeks. This has been pretty stable for several weeks now, certainly in the 3 snapshots they’ve done. It suggests low level community spread, but a persistent low level.
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Post by OldStokie on Jun 2, 2020 10:58:59 GMT
The furlough scheme was very good. Whether it continues to be as good if we have a second spike remains to be seen. As I see it, if we can bail the banks out to the tune of 500 billion then we've got loads of leeway to continue it. But who's going to pay for it when it's all over? Nothing less than a completely equitable sharing of the burden according to ability to pay will suffice for me. Regarding handling of the virus itself then I can only come to one conclusion. If the government were a private company and could be open to corporate manslaughter, those ministers and advisors running the show should go to jail. As an analogy, it's akin to the Bhopal disaster in India. OS. If the UK government and by default many others around the World are guilty of corporate manslaughter what should be the charge laid against the communist PRC government in your opinion ? If it can be proven that they deliberately misled the world initially by hiding something that should have been shared immediately then they should be treated as a pariah state and suffer the conquences of worldwide isolation. But that isn't going to happen. Even if they dropped an atomic bomb somewhere by mistake there are those in the capitalist world who would still want to trade with them so they can get their greedy snouts in the trough of a superpower who will soon be the number 1 place to invest. Don't blame the CRC for treading the capitalist path via an autocratic system. They've got where they are by doing just that. It works. But what the CRC may have or may not have done has no bearing whatsoever on the way governments throughout the world have dealt with the pandemic. There are those who have handled it brilliantly, some who have handled it well, and some, like our government, who have made a complete balls up of it. The common denominator of those who have ballsed it up - the US, the UK, and Brazil - is that they're all run by right-wing extremist governments. There are others who have not dealt with it well either, but that's mainly because they don't have the finances to build an infrastructure to do it. We can't say that. We're the 5th richest nation in the world. And we are no different than the CRC in many regards. What we see in the UK (especially England) is a methodology of lies, deceit, misinformation and government skullduggery designed to deflect/avoid blame any way they can. I've seen many governments in my long time on this earth but I can honestly say that I've never seen one so manipulative and deceitful as this lot who look upon us citizens as utter fools unworthy of their presence. Thatcher was an utter bastard, but she was an upfront bastard. When she said, "There's no such thing as society" then that was exactly what she thought, so deal with it. This lot have pretended to be the friends of the people, but they're not. And if any ordinary person cannot see through them then I pity them. They serve only one master - greed for the few... whatever the consequences. And if deaths of thousands of old people is the price they have to pay to achieve their aims, then so be it. Ferfuxache, wake up to what they're doing to you. OS.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 2, 2020 11:05:28 GMT
Is there an estimated breakdown of how many of those new 8,000 infections are ... 1. People who caught the infection in hospital 2. Hospital staff 3. People in care homes 4. Care home staff ? If we knew this figure, then we'd be able to estimate how wide the spread is in the community. The latest figures from the ONS suggest 0.24% infection in the community. When extrapolated out this is ~130k over two weeks. This has been pretty stable for several weeks now, certainly in the 3 snapshots they’ve done. It suggests low level community spread, but a persistent low level. So over 9,000 a day, not including care homes and hospitals?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 2, 2020 11:07:44 GMT
If the UK government and by default many others around the World are guilty of corporate manslaughter what should be the charge laid against the communist PRC government in your opinion ? If it can be proven that they deliberately misled the world initially by hiding something that should have been shared immediately then they should be treated as a pariah state and suffer the conquences of worldwide isolation. But that isn't going to happen. Even if they dropped an atomic bomb somewhere by mistake there are those in the capitalist world who would still want to trade with them so they can get their greedy snouts in the trough of a superpower who will soon be the number 1 place to invest. Don't blame the CRC for treading the capitalist path via an autocratic system. They've got where they are by doing just that. It works. But what the CRC may have or may not have done has no bearing whatsoever on the way governments throughout the world have dealt with the pandemic. There are those who have handled it brilliantly, some who have handled it well, and some, like our government, who have made a complete balls up of it. The common denominator of those who have ballsed it up - the US, the UK, and Brazil - is that they're all run by right-wing extremist governments. There are others who have not dealt with it well either, but that's mainly because they don't have the finances to build an infrastructure to do it. We can't say that. We're the 5th richest nation in the world. And we are no different than the CRC in many regards. What we see in the UK (especially England) is a methodology of lies, deceit, misinformation and government skullduggery designed to deflect/avoid blame any way they can. I've seen many governments in my long time on this earth but I can honestly say that I've never seen one so manipulative and deceitful as this lot who look upon us citizens as utter fools unworthy of their presence. Thatcher was an utter bastard, but she was an upfront bastard. When she said, "There's no such thing as society" then that was exactly what she thought, so deal with it. This lot have pretended to be the friends of the people, but they're not. And if any ordinary person cannot see through them then I pity them. They serve only one master - greed for the few... whatever the consequences. And if deaths of thousands of old people is the price they have to pay to achieve their aims, then so be it. Ferfuxache, wake up to what they're doing to you. OS. Absolutely scathing letter today Mick, from Sir David Norgrove, chairman of the UK Statistics Authority, to Matt Hancock ...
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Jun 2, 2020 11:08:59 GMT
The latest figures from the ONS suggest 0.24% infection in the community. When extrapolated out this is ~130k over two weeks. This has been pretty stable for several weeks now, certainly in the 3 snapshots they’ve done. It suggests low level community spread, but a persistent low level. So over 9,000 a day, not including care homes and hospitals? Yeah ONS say their data is excluding those settings:
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 2, 2020 11:14:54 GMT
So over 9,000 a day, not including care homes and hospitals? Yeah ONS say their data is excluding those settings: Blimey, so in reality, we're well into five figures each day, when community, care home and hospital figures are all combined then?
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Jun 2, 2020 11:25:07 GMT
Yeah ONS say their data is excluding those settings: Blimey, so in reality, we're well into five figures each day, when community, care home and hospital figures are all combined then? This exactly why Sir David Norgrove of ONS has asked to Government to try and break down the Daily Testing figures from Department of Health into setting, employment, location etc rather than just one big homogenous number, which is actually misleading. (Going back to the old counting posted tests among completed ones) It’s an impressive letter.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 2, 2020 11:32:34 GMT
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Post by Olgrligm on Jun 2, 2020 12:04:56 GMT
Cheers! Interesting but Andrew Neil normally doesn’t get these things wrong. Andrew Neil is a complete enigma. He has created this political bulldog persona which has been heavily adopted by the BBC but when you dig a little deeper he is purely a puppet to his real paymasters over at The Spectator. Who, sort of interestingly, have just announced that they are returning their furlough money to the government because it turns out that they didn't need it after all. Obviously Neil has his own political opinions - as do all journalists - but I think that, on the whole, he doesn't let them get in the way of his job when he's on the BBC. I find him to be a good host and a pretty good interviewer. I've criticised journalists quite a bit on this thread, but I think we generally have higher standards amongst our political journalists than the US. Could you imagine a Fox News host going on a prime time slot and calling out Donald Trump for chickening out of an interview? Could you imagine an American politician of either party actually chickening out of an interview with their pet broadcaster, be it Fox or NBC or whoever? I can still recall that American bloke (Ben Shapiro) going on Neil's show and having a hissy fit because he was asked challenging questions, which meant that Neil must have been a left wing extremist. It was quite funny.
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Post by stokeson on Jun 2, 2020 12:11:51 GMT
It would appear that our "world beating " track and trace (run by Dido harding wife of tory MP John (expenses) Penrose and former head of Talk Talk when they lost the data of 144,000 customers) is running way behind schedule and may not be up to speed till the end of June.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 2, 2020 12:17:37 GMT
Andrew Neil is a complete enigma. He has created this political bulldog persona which has been heavily adopted by the BBC but when you dig a little deeper he is purely a puppet to his real paymasters over at The Spectator. Who, sort of interestingly, have just announced that they are returning their furlough money to the government because it turns out that they didn't need it after all. Obviously Neil has his own political opinions - as do all journalists - but I think that, on the whole, he doesn't let them get in the way of his job when he's on the BBC. I find him to be a good host and a pretty good interviewer. I've criticised journalists quite a bit on this thread, but I think we generally have higher standards amongst our political journalists than the US. Could you imagine a Fox News host going on a prime time slot and calling out Donald Trump for chickening out of an interview? Could you imagine an American politician of either party actually chickening out of an interview with their pet broadcaster, be it Fox or NBC or whoever? I can still recall that American bloke (Ben Shapiro) going on Neil's show and having a hissy fit because he was asked challenging questions, which meant that Neil must have been a left wing extremist. It was quite funny. I still want to know about the Fairytales of Durham his mag published though from Cummings' wife. Suspiciously quiet about all of that. And this picture will never not be weird.
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Post by crapslinger on Jun 2, 2020 12:55:26 GMT
If the UK government and by default many others around the World are guilty of corporate manslaughter what should be the charge laid against the communist PRC government in your opinion ? If it can be proven that they deliberately misled the world initially by hiding something that should have been shared immediately then they should be treated as a pariah state and suffer the conquences of worldwide isolation. But that isn't going to happen. Even if they dropped an atomic bomb somewhere by mistake there are those in the capitalist world who would still want to trade with them so they can get their greedy snouts in the trough of a superpower who will soon be the number 1 place to invest. Don't blame the CRC for treading the capitalist path via an autocratic system. They've got where they are by doing just that. It works. But what the CRC may have or may not have done has no bearing whatsoever on the way governments throughout the world have dealt with the pandemic. There are those who have handled it brilliantly, some who have handled it well, and some, like our government, who have made a complete balls up of it. The common denominator of those who have ballsed it up - the US, the UK, and Brazil - is that they're all run by right-wing extremist governments. There are others who have not dealt with it well either, but that's mainly because they don't have the finances to build an infrastructure to do it. We can't say that. We're the 5th richest nation in the world. And we are no different than the CRC in many regards. What we see in the UK (especially England) is a methodology of lies, deceit, misinformation and government skullduggery designed to deflect/avoid blame any way they can. I've seen many governments in my long time on this earth but I can honestly say that I've never seen one so manipulative and deceitful as this lot who look upon us citizens as utter fools unworthy of their presence. Thatcher was an utter bastard, but she was an upfront bastard. When she said, "There's no such thing as society" then that was exactly what she thought, so deal with it. This lot have pretended to be the friends of the people, but they're not. And if any ordinary person cannot see through them then I pity them. They serve only one master - greed for the few... whatever the consequences. And if deaths of thousands of old people is the price they have to pay to achieve their aims, then so be it. Ferfuxache, wake up to what they're doing to you. OS. When do we start building religious correction camps FFS what a load of deflection bollocks, the UK extreme right wing government grow up man, if our government is as you claim guilty of corporate manslaughter the PRC regime has to be guilty of mass murder, I need to wake up take those left wing blinkers off you are condoning possibly the most oppressive government in the World.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 2, 2020 12:58:42 GMT
I've used this link because The Times article that broke the story is behind a pay wall ... www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/chris-whitty-blocked-boris-johnson-from-downgrading-alert-level-1-6680660Boris Johnson’s attempts to downgrade the coronavirus alert level was blocked by England’s chief medical officer Chris Whitty. The prime minister wanted to announce the five-stage alert level was being reduced from four to three as new measures were introduced as a partial relaxation of the lockdown. On May 11 the PM had said that a relaxation of social-distancing measures “must be warranted by the alert level”. But The Times reports Johnson could only claim that the level was “moving towards 3” and spoke about “transitioning” after Whitty insisted it remains at the second-highest level. It has raised questions about the system after Downing Street were unable to explain the criteria after measures were relaxed without the level moving.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 2, 2020 13:00:54 GMT
I've used this link because The Times article that broke the story is behind a pay wall ... www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/chris-whitty-blocked-boris-johnson-from-downgrading-alert-level-1-6680660Boris Johnson’s attempts to downgrade the coronavirus alert level was blocked by England’s chief medical officer Chris Whitty. The prime minister wanted to announce the five-stage alert level was being reduced from four to three as new measures were introduced as a partial relaxation of the lockdown. On May 11 the PM had said that a relaxation of social-distancing measures “must be warranted by the alert level”. But The Times reports Johnson could only claim that the level was “moving towards 3” and spoke about “transitioning” after Whitty insisted it remains at the second-highest level. It has raised questions about the system after Downing Street were unable to explain the criteria after measures were relaxed without the level moving. Do you remember when I said in March I feared for Whitty? I really do.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 2, 2020 13:02:53 GMT
I've used this link because The Times article that broke the story is behind a pay wall ... www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/chris-whitty-blocked-boris-johnson-from-downgrading-alert-level-1-6680660Boris Johnson’s attempts to downgrade the coronavirus alert level was blocked by England’s chief medical officer Chris Whitty. The prime minister wanted to announce the five-stage alert level was being reduced from four to three as new measures were introduced as a partial relaxation of the lockdown. On May 11 the PM had said that a relaxation of social-distancing measures “must be warranted by the alert level”. But The Times reports Johnson could only claim that the level was “moving towards 3” and spoke about “transitioning” after Whitty insisted it remains at the second-highest level. It has raised questions about the system after Downing Street were unable to explain the criteria after measures were relaxed without the level moving. Do you remember when I said in March I feared for Whitty? I really do. At least he's prepared to put his foot down. Oh to be a fly on the wall, when he gets home from work ...
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 2, 2020 13:06:02 GMT
Do you remember when I said in March I feared for Whitty? I really do. At least he's prepared to put his foot down. Oh to be a fly on the wall, when he gets home from work ... Indeed. He's the only one in this saga I like. He seems a right loner and so dedicated to his job.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 2, 2020 13:11:48 GMT
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Post by theincontinents on Jun 2, 2020 13:34:58 GMT
It would appear that our "world beating " track and trace (run by Dido harding wife of tory MP John (expenses) Penrose and former head of Talk Talk when they lost the data of 144,000 customers) is running way behind schedule and may not be up to speed till the end of June. I think you’ll find that’s Baroness Harding (Tory life peer) to the likes of you and I. I’ve no idea how she earned that peerage, maybe it was due to her sustained cover up of that lost data? 🤷♂️
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Post by jimmygscfc1234 on Jun 2, 2020 13:57:55 GMT
If it can be proven that they deliberately misled the world initially by hiding something that should have been shared immediately then they should be treated as a pariah state and suffer the conquences of worldwide isolation. But that isn't going to happen. Even if they dropped an atomic bomb somewhere by mistake there are those in the capitalist world who would still want to trade with them so they can get their greedy snouts in the trough of a superpower who will soon be the number 1 place to invest. Don't blame the CRC for treading the capitalist path via an autocratic system. They've got where they are by doing just that. It works. But what the CRC may have or may not have done has no bearing whatsoever on the way governments throughout the world have dealt with the pandemic. There are those who have handled it brilliantly, some who have handled it well, and some, like our government, who have made a complete balls up of it. The common denominator of those who have ballsed it up - the US, the UK, and Brazil - is that they're all run by right-wing extremist governments. There are others who have not dealt with it well either, but that's mainly because they don't have the finances to build an infrastructure to do it. We can't say that. We're the 5th richest nation in the world. And we are no different than the CRC in many regards. What we see in the UK (especially England) is a methodology of lies, deceit, misinformation and government skullduggery designed to deflect/avoid blame any way they can. I've seen many governments in my long time on this earth but I can honestly say that I've never seen one so manipulative and deceitful as this lot who look upon us citizens as utter fools unworthy of their presence. Thatcher was an utter bastard, but she was an upfront bastard. When she said, "There's no such thing as society" then that was exactly what she thought, so deal with it. This lot have pretended to be the friends of the people, but they're not. And if any ordinary person cannot see through them then I pity them. They serve only one master - greed for the few... whatever the consequences. And if deaths of thousands of old people is the price they have to pay to achieve their aims, then so be it. Ferfuxache, wake up to what they're doing to you. OS. When do we start building religious correction camps FFS what a load of deflection bollocks, the UK extreme right wing government grow up man, if our government is as you claim guilty of corporate manslaughter the PRC regime has to be guilty of mass murder, I need to wake up take those left wing blinkers off you are condoning possibly the most oppressive government in the World. You're such a one trick pony. Let's have your take on the crisis here and how the government is handling things, instead of this constant harping on about the Chinese. Blame is one thing that may be apportioned further down the line, but let's focus on ourselves for now.
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Post by stokeson on Jun 2, 2020 14:01:57 GMT
At least he's prepared to put his foot down. Oh to be a fly on the wall, when he gets home from work ... Indeed. He's the only one in this saga I like. He seems a right loner and so dedicated to his job. I think they might be preparing a spot in "Cummings Wood" before we can get into an enquiry of the "follow the science".
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Post by 828492 on Jun 2, 2020 14:06:16 GMT
It would appear that our "world beating " track and trace (run by Dido harding wife of tory MP John (expenses) Penrose and former head of Talk Talk when they lost the data of 144,000 customers) is running way behind schedule and may not be up to speed till the end of June. I think you’ll find that’s Baroness Harding (Tory life peer) to the likes of you and I. I’ve no idea how she earned that peerage, maybe it was due to her sustained cover up of that lost data? 🤷♂️ That’s the gal. Baroness Dido Harding. I have been saying for a few days that she is just the sort of person to head the inquiry in to the excellent job done by all, especially Cummings, Johnson, and Handjob. She is the sort of person that can be trusted to come up with the right (geddit?) answers.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 2, 2020 14:21:19 GMT
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Post by Cast no shadow on Jun 2, 2020 14:46:41 GMT
Piers Morgan + Channel 4......
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Post by elystokie on Jun 2, 2020 14:52:12 GMT
I think you’ll find that’s Baroness Harding (Tory life peer) to the likes of you and I. I’ve no idea how she earned that peerage, maybe it was due to her sustained cover up of that lost data? 🤷♂️ That’s the gal. Baroness Dido Harding. I have been saying for a few days that she is just the sort of person to head the inquiry in to the excellent job done by all, especially Cummings, Johnson, and Handjob. She is the sort of person that can be trusted to come up with the right (geddit?) answers. Busy girl, also on the board that deals with the Cheltenham Festival seemingly, that'll be the Cheltenham Festival that went ahead, presumably with Dom's blessing, on the very same weekend (10-13th March) that Spain were beginning to enforce a pretty rigid lock down, the roads were deserted there - cafes, bars and restaurants all closed, shops full of folk panic buying. Perhaps they thought the Guinness would provide immunity at the races
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Post by thebet365 on Jun 2, 2020 15:04:31 GMT
Wasn't it said in the daily briefing on 13th March that we're looking for Herd Immunity ? Something we quickly backtracked from on the Monday when they realised their sums were wrong ? If I'm right with the dates how's that "the truth dripping out" when it was broadcast to the nation on the same day
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 2, 2020 15:09:27 GMT
Wasn't it said in the daily briefing on 13th March that we're looking for Herd Immunity ? Something we quickly backtracked from on the Monday when they realised their sums were wrong ? If I'm right with the dates how's that "the truth dripping out" when it was broadcast to the nation on the same day It was but a lot of Tory boys are denying it for some reason.
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Post by thebet365 on Jun 2, 2020 15:16:11 GMT
Wasn't it said in the daily briefing on 13th March that we're looking for Herd Immunity ? Something we quickly backtracked from on the Monday when they realised their sums were wrong ? If I'm right with the dates how's that "the truth dripping out" when it was broadcast to the nation on the same day It was but a lot of Tory boys are denying it for some reason. That's not the point tho, we all heard it (No pun intended) If that phone call was after the backtrack fine have a pop but it was the same day, we all know Herd immuninty was the original plan, it's been discussed enough on here at the time. That tweet is just meaningless.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 2, 2020 15:19:16 GMT
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Post by dexta on Jun 2, 2020 15:25:02 GMT
Wasn't it said in the daily briefing on 13th March that we're looking for Herd Immunity ? Something we quickly backtracked from on the Monday when they realised their sums were wrong ? If I'm right with the dates how's that "the truth dripping out" when it was broadcast to the nation on the same day It was but a lot of Tory boys are denying it for some reason. a bit like the government said 20000 deaths would be a good result. You couldn't make this shit up.. They have let us down on so many things... Just a bunch of gypos on the waltzers they have given it that much spin
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 2, 2020 15:25:07 GMT
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