|
Post by sportsman on May 13, 2020 10:46:58 GMT
Testing We need to get this really firing don't we? Still only testing 60k actual people per day and that counts these rather flaky tests in the post. We must believe there is now very little Covid in our towns and cities or we would not be sending people back to work. So this is the moment to get on the front foot and hunt down the fucker. But beyond the regional hospital admissions numbers we don't seem to have much of a clue where it really remains. But we need to be hunting it down at town, street and even home level. But how do we do that with so little data? Some will say this blasted App on the Isle of Wight but somehow you just know it won't work! This is exactly why many people are suggesting that we're coming out of lockdown two weeks too early. Whilst the virus has been reduced, we need to get our test, track and trace protocols in place so we can take advantage of the low number and then keep a lid on it. But if we come out of lockdown before we are able to do that, then cases will rise BEFORE we're ready with the new protocols and we'll end up being straight back where we started, rendering the first lockdown totally pointless. That's the theory anyway. But when would all this be in place? Could be ages couldn't it? Surely the scientists as well as government with all the evidence of what's 'really going on' would have called this with the knowledge they have, we don't know, and no doubt never know.
|
|
|
Post by sportsman on May 13, 2020 10:53:22 GMT
Yes it is. I saw on tv last night that we're probably one of the few European country to record the death figures as accurately as possible. I wonder how many countries world wide can actually say the same? Must be true if you saw it on TV. I wonder if anyone else knows about this source of infallible truth? That was my point on another thread. No bugger anywhere is telling the truth. Russia, second highest cases over 230k cases and 2000 deaths? Yeh right! No european country wants to be top of the champions league table of deaths. Are those countries really telling the truth? Spain is it, not recording any care home deaths? I don't know how other countries better their governments but I'm sure with all the independent bodies and Poirot's in this country you can bet ours are eventually petty damn accurate
|
|
|
Post by roylandstoke on May 13, 2020 10:57:51 GMT
Must be true if you saw it on TV. I wonder if anyone else knows about this source of infallible truth? That was my point on another thread. No bugger anywhere is telling the truth. Russia, second highest cases over 230k cases and 2000 deaths? Yeh right! No european country wants to be top of the champions league table of deaths. Are those countries really telling the truth? Spain is it, not recording any care home deaths? I don't know how other countries better their governments but I'm sure with all the independent bodies and Poirot's in this country you can bet ours are eventually petty damn accurate I couldn't have less faith in the people running our country at the moment.
|
|
|
Post by Davef on May 13, 2020 10:59:26 GMT
I've got to say, I'm slightly pissed off at the the media lauding those still working and "keeping the country going". Do they really think that the vast majority of those who can't work are happy with the situation and only receiving 80% of their salary? It's not just me pissed off at that then, Dave? For the first 5 weeks of lockdown I was able to work from home. The company I work for suffered a massive downturn in orders coming in, and also the numbers being invoiced out. We slowly furloughed staff to balance out what work we had remaining. I survived the first couple of rounds of furlough but eventually got furloughed on the third round, when the business scaled back to an extreme skeleton staff. Believe me, being furloughed isn't what I want. I'd go back tomorrow if I got the phone call. I'd imagine the vast majority of people on furlough are eager to get back. It's not as if it's some sort of holiday, given the current circumstances. And although 80% sounds a lot (and it is a generous offer from the goverment), the 20% hit is a significant one for our family and I'm sure it is for many others. I quickly realised that 80% of my wages covers what I roughly need for all outgoings, therefore the 20% was our surplus income which we used to "live" on. As things stand, if this continues longer term, the money coming in will just be enough to cover the bills, with nothing left beyond that. That's no way to live. In that scenario I either have to start struggling and getting by, or start taking out payment holidays on the mortgage etc. Being furloughed is shit in my opinion. And some of the stuff written about it in the media is absolute arse gravy. I'm just pissed off at turning on the radio and hearing dedications to the great and saintly who're working and, to quote these radio presenters "keeping the country going". It's patronising bullshit, and while we all appreciate the key, frontline workers, we all keep the country going when we're working and when this shitshow is over we'll all be playing our part in getting the country back on its feet. And make no mistake, we'll all be paying a price when that day comes.
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on May 13, 2020 11:04:39 GMT
This is exactly why many people are suggesting that we're coming out of lockdown two weeks too early. Whilst the virus has been reduced, we need to get our test, track and trace protocols in place so we can take advantage of the low number and then keep a lid on it. But if we come out of lockdown before we are able to do that, then cases will rise BEFORE we're ready with the new protocols and we'll end up being straight back where we started, rendering the first lockdown totally pointless. That's the theory anyway. But when would all this be in place? Could be ages couldn't it? Surely the scientists as well as government with all the evidence of what's 'really going on' would have called this with the knowledge they have, we don't know, and no doubt never know. No the Government said it would be ready by the end of the month. "Further outbreaks of coronavirus and rolling lockdowns are inevitable under government plans to ease restrictions and send people back to work in England without a robust strategy to suppress Covid-19, an independent group of scientists has warned. The experts convened by Sir David King, a former chief scientific adviser, urged ministers to reconsider the “dangerous” strategy of managing the spread of Covid-19 and adopt widespread decentralised testing, tracing and isolation to tackle the epidemic across the UK. In a report published on Tuesday, the group warned that simply ensuring the NHS was not overwhelmed was counterproductive and potentially dangerous. Without strong measures to suppress the spread of infections “we shall inevitably see a more rapid return of local epidemics resulting in more deaths and potential further partial or national lockdowns”, they said."
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 13, 2020 11:11:51 GMT
I'd feel fine doing it. We'd keep more than a 2m gap at all times, so I'm not concerned of any risk. You mean your mate is faster than you and you'll be lagging behind anyway 😉 Yeah, and that 😂
|
|
|
Post by stokeson on May 13, 2020 11:12:05 GMT
Boris is getting a kicking in PMQs again. Bluff Bluster and Bollocks.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 13, 2020 11:12:20 GMT
I'd feel fine doing it. We'd keep more than a 2m gap at all times, so I'm not concerned of any risk. I think it's fine now. I'll keep an eye out for you on the BVW. BVW?
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on May 13, 2020 11:12:53 GMT
It's not just me pissed off at that then, Dave? For the first 5 weeks of lockdown I was able to work from home. The company I work for suffered a massive downturn in orders coming in, and also the numbers being invoiced out. We slowly furloughed staff to balance out what work we had remaining. I survived the first couple of rounds of furlough but eventually got furloughed on the third round, when the business scaled back to an extreme skeleton staff. Believe me, being furloughed isn't what I want. I'd go back tomorrow if I got the phone call. I'd imagine the vast majority of people on furlough are eager to get back. It's not as if it's some sort of holiday, given the current circumstances. And although 80% sounds a lot (and it is a generous offer from the goverment), the 20% hit is a significant one for our family and I'm sure it is for many others. I quickly realised that 80% of my wages covers what I roughly need for all outgoings, therefore the 20% was our surplus income which we used to "live" on. As things stand, if this continues longer term, the money coming in will just be enough to cover the bills, with nothing left beyond that. That's no way to live. In that scenario I either have to start struggling and getting by, or start taking out payment holidays on the mortgage etc. Being furloughed is shit in my opinion. And some of the stuff written about it in the media is absolute arse gravy. I'm just pissed off at turning on the radio and hearing dedications to the great and saintly who're working and, to quote these radio presenters "keeping the country going". It's patronising bullshit, and while we all appreciate the key, frontline workers, we all keep the country going when we're working and when this shitshow is over we'll all be playing our part in getting the country back on its feet. And make no mistake, we'll all be paying a price when that day comes. Tory divide and conquer language. We all need to rise above it.
|
|
|
Post by sportsman on May 13, 2020 11:12:54 GMT
But when would all this be in place? Could be ages couldn't it? Surely the scientists as well as government with all the evidence of what's 'really going on' would have called this with the knowledge they have, we don't know, and no doubt never know. No the Government said it would be ready by the end of the month. "Further outbreaks of coronavirus and rolling lockdowns are inevitable under government plans to ease restrictions and send people back to work in England without a robust strategy to suppress Covid-19, an independent group of scientists has warned. The experts convened by Sir David King, a former chief scientific adviser, urged ministers to reconsider the “dangerous” strategy of managing the spread of Covid-19 and adopt widespread decentralised testing, tracing and isolation to tackle the epidemic across the UK. In a report published on Tuesday, the group warned that simply ensuring the NHS was not overwhelmed was counterproductive and potentially dangerous. Without strong measures to suppress the spread of infections “we shall inevitably see a more rapid return of local epidemics resulting in more deaths and potential further partial or national lockdowns”, they said." I wonder whether it's to try keep up economy wise with the rest of europe now they're doing the same? Surely our scientists have ok'd it with all the knowledge and evidence they have because the government keep saying they're led by the science and it's our scientists that would carry the can and fingers pointed if they were way wrong? So the risks must have been accounted for?
|
|
|
Post by theincontinents on May 13, 2020 11:15:25 GMT
Must be true if you saw it on TV. I wonder if anyone else knows about this source of infallible truth? That was my point on another thread. No bugger anywhere is telling the truth. Russia, second highest cases over 230k cases and 2000 deaths? Yeh right! No european country wants to be top of the champions league table of deaths. Are those countries really telling the truth? Spain is it, not recording any care home deaths? I don't know how other countries better their governments but I'm sure with all the independent bodies and Poirot's in this country you can bet ours are eventually petty damn accurate Not picking an argument here, just taking the most relevant post to once again provide a very good piece on comparing international Covid data. www.health.org.uk/news-and-comment/charts-and-infographics/understanding-excess-mortality-the-fairest-way-to-make-international-comparisons
|
|
|
Post by sportsman on May 13, 2020 11:15:33 GMT
Boris is getting a kicking in PMQs again. Bluff Bluster and Bollocks. Is he? The last one I watched people said the same? I didn't see it? Or is it what you want to see? 😁
|
|
|
Post by werrington on May 13, 2020 11:16:28 GMT
|
|
|
Post by stokeson on May 13, 2020 11:17:29 GMT
Boris is getting a kicking in PMQs again. Bluff Bluster and Bollocks. Is he? The last one I watched people said the same? I didn't see it? Or is it what you want to see? 😁 Youve got that right.You see only what you want to see.........
|
|
|
Post by sportsman on May 13, 2020 11:19:08 GMT
That was my point on another thread. No bugger anywhere is telling the truth. Russia, second highest cases over 230k cases and 2000 deaths? Yeh right! No european country wants to be top of the champions league table of deaths. Are those countries really telling the truth? Spain is it, not recording any care home deaths? I don't know how other countries better their governments but I'm sure with all the independent bodies and Poirot's in this country you can bet ours are eventually petty damn accurate Not picking an argument here, just taking the most relevant post to once again provide a very good piece on comparing international Covid data. www.health.org.uk/news-and-comment/charts-and-infographics/understanding-excess-mortality-the-fairest-way-to-make-international-comparisonsMay be right mate. Just saying I don't trust any government figures including our own worldwide. I don't even trust WHO. Things come out about them. I dont know much about them, but with trump stopping 400m? Payment to them and the things you hear I look at them like FIFA. I always think where there's money there's corruption.
|
|
|
Post by thisisouryear on May 13, 2020 11:22:16 GMT
Boris is getting a kicking in PMQs again. Bluff Bluster and Bollocks. Is he? The last one I watched people said the same? I didn't see it? Or is it what you want to see? 😁 He didn't answer most questions. Kept saying "the people understand" every question like he is trying to rally the troops. Talks about people using common sense, which all has nothing to do with the questions asked.
|
|
|
Post by stokeson on May 13, 2020 11:24:33 GMT
Is he? The last one I watched people said the same? I didn't see it? Or is it what you want to see? 😁 He didn't answer most questions. Kept saying "the people understand" every question like he is trying to rally the troops. Talks about people using common sense, which all has nothing to do with the questions asked. So funny how he turns round all the time waiting for cheers from his fans only to see empty benches......
|
|
|
Post by sportsman on May 13, 2020 11:31:47 GMT
He didn't answer most questions. Kept saying "the people understand" every question like he is trying to rally the troops. Talks about people using common sense, which all has nothing to do with the questions asked. So funny how he turns round all the time waiting for cheers from his fans only to see empty benches...... It's the loud applause he can here outside 😉
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 13, 2020 11:37:40 GMT
Boris is getting a kicking in PMQs again. Bluff Bluster and Bollocks. Is he? The last one I watched people said the same? I didn't see it? Or is it what you want to see? 😁 Starmer has utterly dissected and destroyed how the government has managed this, you'd have to fancy boris Johnson, only read the right wing press, and not want to know the truth not to see that. We will need another awful damaging full-on lockdown soon because we started the first lockdown too late, don't have testing and tracing in place properly, and have essentially ended this lockdown too soon. Not to mention a lot more will get infected and die during the next few weeks
|
|
|
Post by wagsastokie on May 13, 2020 11:53:38 GMT
Is he? The last one I watched people said the same? I didn't see it? Or is it what you want to see? 😁 Starmer has utterly dissected and destroyed how the government has managed this, you'd have to fancy boris Johnson, only read the right wing press, and not want to know the truth not to see that. We will need another awful damaging full-on lockdown soon because we started the first lockdown too late, don't have testing and tracing in place properly, and have essentially ended this lockdown too soon. Not to mention a lot more will get infected and die during the next few weeks And if we don't will you come on here and admit the government got the relaxing of lockdown right Because if they reintroduce a strict lockdown I'll be the first to criticise
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on May 13, 2020 12:03:15 GMT
One exchange in PMQ's proved that Johnson is a complete liar and his Government completely negligent on care homes
Guidance shows Starmer right and PM wrong about government claiming care home deaths 'very unlikely' until 12 March
At PMQs Boris Johnson claimed that Sir Keir Starmer was wrong to say that government advice was saying until 12 March that people in care homes were at little risk of coronavirus. Here is the document. As you can see at the top, it says it was withdrawn on 13 March. And here is the key quote.
This guidance is intended for the current position in the UK where there is currently no transmission of Covid-19 in the community. It is therefore very unlikely that anyone receiving care in a care home or the community will become infected.
For reference, this is what Starmer asked: Until 12 March, the government’s own official advice was - and I’m quoting from it: “It remains very unlikely that people receiving care in a care home will become infected.” Does the prime minister accept that the government was too slow to protect people in care homes? And Johnson replied: No, Mr Speaker. And it wasn’t true the advice said that.
|
|
|
Post by 828492 on May 13, 2020 12:11:11 GMT
One exchange in PMQ's proved that Johnson is a complete liar and his Government completely negligent on care homes Guidance shows Starmer right and PM wrong about government claiming care home deaths 'very unlikely' until 12 MarchAt PMQs Boris Johnson claimed that Sir Keir Starmer was wrong to say that government advice was saying until 12 March that people in care homes were at little risk of coronavirus. Here is the document. As you can see at the top, it says it was withdrawn on 13 March. And here is the key quote. This guidance is intended for the current position in the UK where there is currently no transmission of Covid-19 in the community. It is therefore very unlikely that anyone receiving care in a care home or the community will become infected. For reference, this is what Starmer asked: Until 12 March, the government’s own official advice was - and I’m quoting from it: “It remains very unlikely that people receiving care in a care home will become infected.” Does the prime minister accept that the government was too slow to protect people in care homes? And Johnson replied: No, Mr Speaker. And it wasn’t true the advice said that.Starmer has written to Johnson to request that he returns to the House to correct the record about this.
|
|
|
Post by southstand1 on May 13, 2020 12:11:52 GMT
Is he? The last one I watched people said the same? I didn't see it? Or is it what you want to see? 😁 Starmer has utterly dissected and destroyed how the government has managed this, you'd have to fancy boris Johnson, only read the right wing press, and not want to know the truth not to see that. We will need another awful damaging full-on lockdown soon because we started the first lockdown too late, don't have testing and tracing in place properly, and have essentially ended this lockdown too soon. Not to mention a lot more will get infected and die during the next few weeks Haven't germany, us and others said they'll all see how easing lockdown goes and if needed apply the brakes?
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on May 13, 2020 12:18:51 GMT
No the Government said it would be ready by the end of the month. "Further outbreaks of coronavirus and rolling lockdowns are inevitable under government plans to ease restrictions and send people back to work in England without a robust strategy to suppress Covid-19, an independent group of scientists has warned. The experts convened by Sir David King, a former chief scientific adviser, urged ministers to reconsider the “dangerous” strategy of managing the spread of Covid-19 and adopt widespread decentralised testing, tracing and isolation to tackle the epidemic across the UK. In a report published on Tuesday, the group warned that simply ensuring the NHS was not overwhelmed was counterproductive and potentially dangerous. Without strong measures to suppress the spread of infections “we shall inevitably see a more rapid return of local epidemics resulting in more deaths and potential further partial or national lockdowns”, they said." I wonder whether it's to try keep up economy wise with the rest of europe now they're doing the same? Surely our scientists have ok'd it with all the knowledge and evidence they have because the government keep saying they're led by the science and it's our scientists that would carry the can and fingers pointed if they were way wrong? So the risks must have been accounted for? No, since the start we've been several weeks behind Italy and Spain and just because they're now coming out of lockdown doesn't then mean we have to match them, we've still got a way to go yet. And the sciencetists just advise, they don't dictate policy. If Boris has got the 1922 Committee on his back to reopen the economy, then he has to do a balancing trick on what he needs to do. That's why I posted the link of the statement made by the scientists on the alternative SAGE group, they think it's bonkers lifting the lockdown until test, track and trace is in place and ultimately the decision could be WORSE for the economy.
|
|
|
Post by chad on May 13, 2020 12:24:17 GMT
Boris is getting a kicking in PMQs again. Bluff Bluster and Bollocks. Is he bollocks.
|
|
|
Post by richardparker on May 13, 2020 12:26:30 GMT
Boris is getting a kicking in PMQs again. Bluff Bluster and Bollocks. But for how much longer can he get away with it? Apparantly Gove, Raab and Hancock have their daggers ready!
|
|
|
Post by sportsman on May 13, 2020 12:27:00 GMT
No, since the start we've been several weeks behind Italy and Spain and just because they're now coming out of lockdown doesn't then mean we have to match them, we've still got a way to go yet. And the sciencetists just advise, they don't dictate policy. If Boris has got the 1922 Committee on his back to reopen the economy, then he has to do a balancing trick on what he needs to do. That's why I posted the link of the statement made by the scientists on the alternative SAGE group, they think it's bonkers lifting the lockdown until test, track and trace is in place and ultimately the decision could be WORSE for the economy. But don't you think if you're standing next to whoever from government on the daily briefing live to the nation and you're the chief scientific officer you'd say hang on a min, I did advise against it but the economy says we have to move now. At the end of the day everyone knows these people now and if scientific advice says don't then surely he'd say that rather than agreeing live on tele?
|
|
|
Post by sportsman on May 13, 2020 12:27:40 GMT
Boris is getting a kicking in PMQs again. Bluff Bluster and Bollocks. But for how much longer can he get away with it? Apparantly Gove, Raab and Hancock have their daggers ready! Who says that Poirot?
|
|
|
Post by Scrotnig on May 13, 2020 12:28:50 GMT
It's all very well scientists saying we should keep the economy shut down and lock everyone in their houses 24/7 until there's a vaccine. It isn't practical and a balance has to be struck.
These same scientists have guaranteed jobs with index linked pensions.
Take away their salary and pension and say you can't have it unless we have a functioning economy. You'd soon see their advice change.
It's easy for them to condemn everyone except themselves to poverty, destitution and house arrest.
|
|
|
Post by Timmypotter on May 13, 2020 12:33:45 GMT
I think it's fine now. I'll keep an eye out for you on the BVW. BVW? Sorry 😁 Biddulph Valley Way.
|
|