|
Post by spitthedog on May 13, 2020 8:40:08 GMT
If its universally agreed that Official Enquiries (in any country) are ineffective and corrupted by establishment then why propose the idea that we wait for an official enquiry before exercising any judgement? That doesn't make any sense? I haven't proposed an enquiry? I couldn't give a flying about an enquiry as like people have said every country will cover stuff up. For a massive cost of an enquiry why have one? Lessons learned yes, a full enquiry other than the right people knowing now or will do when it's over for me is enough. I'm not on about you. I'm just making a point, and who are the right people anyway? People whose relatives have died?
|
|
|
Post by spitthedog on May 13, 2020 8:42:48 GMT
John caudwell has just been on GMB and said exactly the same as me yesterday. In a nutshell, protect the vulnerable and let the virus spread around the country in a controlled way if possible, based on hopefully the fact that once you've had it you are immune. And that the cost of what's happened and if it stayed like that would cause more deaths and problems than the virus spreading and getting immune. I'd like to know in say 2 or 5 years say, how many people in this country will have had the virus. Massive percentage if you ask me. I think the key phrase there is ‘in a controlled way if possible’ - I cant see how it can be controlled in any way. Attachment DeletedI think if this is the controlled way, we are going to have a generation who will grow up with mental health problems. This is a tricky one for any Government no doubt, needs really thorough thinking through
|
|
|
Post by sportsman on May 13, 2020 8:44:30 GMT
John caudwell has just been on GMB and said exactly the same as me yesterday. In a nutshell, protect the vulnerable and let the virus spread around the country in a controlled way if possible, based on hopefully the fact that once you've had it you are immune. And that the cost of what's happened and if it stayed like that would cause more deaths and problems than the virus spreading and getting immune. I'd like to know in say 2 or 5 years say, how many people in this country will have had the virus. Massive percentage if you ask me. I think the key phrase there is ‘in a controlled way if possible’ - I cant see how it can be controlled in any way. I don't know. Other than easing certain stuff slowly like they're are trying to do rather than saying everyone out to play, you can only do so much. If the virus is as spreadable as stated then for me, a hell of a lot of the country will get it no doubt. You yourself might have had it but not known. The bloke across the road from you might have it now and not know? Like I've said before I was as ill as I've ever been 2 weeks over Christmas and never got out or bed or seriously didn't eat for 2 weeks just drank water. Never been that bad and had a non stop terrible cough day and though the night for 2 weeks. I went up the hospital in stoke and they turned me away and said there's nothing we can do and won't be doing any tests. Obviously this was 'before the virus' was known to be over here and little news about it. It may not have been that but it was twice as bad as man flu 😉
|
|
|
Post by sportsman on May 13, 2020 8:48:52 GMT
Yes it is. I saw on tv last night that we're probably one of the few European country to record the death figures as accurately as possible. I wonder how many countries world wide can actually say the same? You have a lot of faith in what you see on TV. In other countries they see facts on TV too. Different facts, but seeing something on TV is not necessarily a basis for informed opinion anywhere in the world. I'm not saying it was wrong either, I just wonder on what basis you have to so much faith on what information we are fed? No that's my point. No country can be trusted in all this. Do you think all other countries in europe are reporting deaths properly? I bet you can nearly double Italy spain and france of truth be known. Trouble is, most European countries are now treating like a champions league table. The difference being no one wants to finish top so the truth won't come out from some countries. I think our country, even through won't be official figures are making sure the figures are more out there.
|
|
|
Post by sportsman on May 13, 2020 8:50:28 GMT
Quite on here today? Is everyone getting paid for playing golf and tennis? 😉
|
|
|
Post by Seymour Beaver on May 13, 2020 8:58:07 GMT
John caudwell has just been on GMB and said exactly the same as me yesterday. In a nutshell, protect the vulnerable and let the virus spread around the country in a controlled way if possible, based on hopefully the fact that once you've had it you are immune. And that the cost of what's happened and if it stayed like that would cause more deaths and problems than the virus spreading and getting immune. I'd like to know in say 2 or 5 years say, how many people in this country will have had the virus. Massive percentage if you ask me. I think the key phrase there is ‘in a controlled way if possible’ - I cant see how it can be controlled in any way. The other one is 'hopefully the fact' - unless you know it's a fact then risking the health of 70% of the nation on a "hope" is a bit of a gamble to say the least. Besides isn't this just a rehash of the "Herd Immunity" approach which was estimated to kill between 250k and 500k??
|
|
|
Post by Olgrligm on May 13, 2020 9:02:11 GMT
MD in Private Eye seems to think that Germany and South Korea are going to take an absolute battering compared to us when the second wave comes around. Personally, I'm doubtful of that. Firstly because it doesn't look like nearly enough of the population have had the illness to build up any proper kind of immunity, and secondly because I don't see why South Korea and Germany wouldn't just revert back to their successful-as-of-yet approaches as soon as a second wave began to show any signs of hitting.
|
|
|
Post by thisisouryear on May 13, 2020 9:05:40 GMT
It feels like the government have given up on the virus. If I didn't know better I would say there is no way to control or stop the virus going by the reactions of the UK and US the past few weeks. That was my whole point yesterday. Slowly get out there, quite a lot may get it, most will either show no or little symptoms, unfortunately some will die. The other option is stay in lockdown indefinitely and bankrupt the country and cause deaths in other ways. Didn't someone say on that cruise ship that they found traces on surfaces weeks after? If that's the case, seriously, other than sticking to the basic guidelines of washing hands and 2 metres and face masks when needed then what chance have you got of not getting it at some point and hopefully you don't suffer. I think that is what its come down to in a lot of countries in Europe now. There will be a shit storm if we are found to be opening up the economy on Trump's orders. Trump wants trade and business as usual ASAP and no doubt he will be having words with Boris and could certainly influence him.
|
|
|
Post by Pugsley on May 13, 2020 9:09:11 GMT
Quite on here today? Is everyone getting paid for playing golf and tennis? 😉 Furloughed workers already being demonised in the media... ... we live in a shit country populated by and run by utter vermin.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 13, 2020 9:09:48 GMT
John caudwell has just been on GMB and said exactly the same as me yesterday. In a nutshell, protect the vulnerable and let the virus spread around the country in a controlled way if possible, based on hopefully the fact that once you've had it you are immune. And that the cost of what's happened and if it stayed like that would cause more deaths and problems than the virus spreading and getting immune. I'd like to know in say 2 or 5 years say, how many people in this country will have had the virus. Massive percentage if you ask me. John Caudwell, the man who has been bellyaching about Lymes disease in his family for the last 5 years or so? That John Caudwell? The same John Caudwell who will no doubt be isolating his entire family and paying people to go out and do his shopping, come back, disinfect the packaging and cook the food for him, until they can get a vaccine? It's like that infamous novel... 'Jump off a Cliff by Ugo First'
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 13, 2020 9:11:14 GMT
MD in Private Eye seems to think that Germany and South Korea are going to take an absolute battering compared to us when the second wave comes around. Personally, I'm doubtful of that. Firstly because it doesn't look like nearly enough of the population have had the illness to build up any proper kind of immunity, and secondly because I don't see why South Korea and Germany wouldn't just revert back to their successful-as-of-yet approaches as soon as a second wave began to show any signs of hitting. Cant see it myself. You can't use our disastrous handling of the situation thus far as reasoning as why we may (or may not) handle a second wave better. "We'll have lower figures next time round because our massive ineptitude first time round, loads of already died and many others have already had it. It was all part of our masterplan." The fact is, nobody knows the full extent of what a second wave may look like. And if it does come back as some people expect, the measures that Germany and S.K. took first time around will enable them to keep it at bay for the second time round too. And the third. The bottom line is, we took our eye off the ball and got complacent. The goverment keep saying this is unprecedented (which it is) as some sort of "get out of jail card" however we did have the benefit of seeing how the virus affected other countries first, so we had the benefit of that information to better tackle it. All other countries were telling us to lockdown as soon as possible. The WHO were screaming "TEST, TEST, TEST." from day 1. We just ignored all advice given to us and all the available data to hand, and sleep walked into fucking oblivion. Hopefully we are now better prepared for any potential second wave, but that doesn't excuse the gross negligence of what has happened over the past couple of months. If a second wave does come in a few months time, I know which country of the 3 I'd rather be living in, and the answer isnt "Great" Britain.
|
|
|
Post by sportsman on May 13, 2020 9:12:44 GMT
I think the key phrase there is ‘in a controlled way if possible’ - I cant see how it can be controlled in any way. The other one is 'hopefully the fact' - unless you know it's a fact then risking the health of 70% of the nation on a "hope" is a bit of a gamble to say the least. Besides isn't this just a rehash of the "Herd Immunity" approach which was estimated to kill between 250k and 500k?? That's pretty much what it is. Let me ask you this? If you got tested in two years time, do you think the test is likely to say you've had it? I'd guess the answer will be yes. Would you know you've had it, probably and hopefully not. Then we've got to hope we are then immune from getting it again, at least until there's a vaccine or drug of some sort. Do i think there is more to this than what we know? Yes i do. A hell of lot is my guess. Money and control is probably the driving factor, but I'm sure there's more to this than us puppets out there waving a union jack flag and singing somewhere over the rainbow. Matt hancock said he knew about this way back before the start of the year. I said back then and I still say now I would have shut the borders down and not let any bugger in since December. That may have knackered up the economy so I don't know. For me and i said it back at the start, every leader of countries accepted this way too easy for me.
|
|
|
Post by sportsman on May 13, 2020 9:16:28 GMT
MD in Private Eye seems to think that Germany and South Korea are going to take an absolute battering compared to us when the second wave comes around. Personally, I'm doubtful of that. Firstly because it doesn't look like nearly enough of the population have had the illness to build up any proper kind of immunity, and secondly because I don't see why South Korea and Germany wouldn't just revert back to their successful-as-of-yet approaches as soon as a second wave began to show any signs of hitting. That's it thought isn't it? If you lock down too early then there won't be enough people affected to build up the immunity. Germany were on the brink of going bust before all this if I remember correctly, their R rate is now above one, they haven't locked down again, and unless it gets way out of control I don't think they will.
|
|
|
Post by Davef on May 13, 2020 9:19:44 GMT
Quite on here today? Is everyone getting paid for playing golf and tennis? 😉 Furloughed workers already being demonised in the media... ... we live in a shit country populated by and run by utter vermin. I've got to say, I'm slightly pissed off at the the media lauding those still working and "keeping the country going". Do they really think that the vast majority of those who can't work are happy with the situation and only receiving 80% of their salary?
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on May 13, 2020 9:20:09 GMT
MD in Private Eye seems to think that Germany and South Korea are going to take an absolute battering compared to us when the second wave comes around. Personally, I'm doubtful of that. Firstly because it doesn't look like nearly enough of the population have had the illness to build up any proper kind of immunity, and secondly because I don't see why South Korea and Germany wouldn't just revert back to their successful-as-of-yet approaches as soon as a second wave began to show any signs of hitting. That's it thought isn't it? If you lock down too early then there won't be enough people affected to build up the immunity. Germany were on the brink of going bust before all this if I remember correctly, their R rate is now above one, they haven't locked down again, and unless it gets way out of control I don't think they will. Still spouting this shite? Have a day off.
|
|
|
Post by sportsman on May 13, 2020 9:21:05 GMT
MD in Private Eye seems to think that Germany and South Korea are going to take an absolute battering compared to us when the second wave comes around. Personally, I'm doubtful of that. Firstly because it doesn't look like nearly enough of the population have had the illness to build up any proper kind of immunity, and secondly because I don't see why South Korea and Germany wouldn't just revert back to their successful-as-of-yet approaches as soon as a second wave began to show any signs of hitting. Cant see it myself. You can't use our disastrous handling of the situation thus far as reasoning as why we may (or may not) handle a second wave better. "We'll have lower figures next time round because our massive ineptitude first time round, loads of already died and many others have already had it. It was all part of our masterplan." The fact is, nobody knows the full extent of what a second wave may look like. And if it does come back as some people expect, the measures that Germany and S.K. took first time around will enable them to keep it at bay for the second time round too. And the third. The bottom line is, we took our eye off the ball and got complacent. The goverment keep saying this is unprecedented (which it is) as some sort of "get out of jail card" however we did have the benefit of seeing how the virus affected other countries first, so we had the benefit of that information to better tackle it. All other countries were telling us to lockdown as soon as possible. The WHO were screaming "TEST, TEST, TEST." from day 1. We just ignored all advice given to us and all the available data to hand, and sleep walked into fucking oblivion. Hopefully we are now better prepared for any potential second wave, but that doesn't excuse the gross negligence of what has happened over the past couple of months. If a second wave does come in a few months time, I know which country of the 3 I'd rather be living in, and the answer isnt "Great" Britain. So say the numbers. Do you think Germany have reported correctly? Do you think if a second wave comes in both our countries where one locked down quickly so a lot of people haven't had the virus maybe, where as the country may have initially allowed it to spread a bit to try get a certain amount of infections to build up an immunity to it, wonder how that will play out and their second spike may be a lot worse than ours. Who knows the answers? Only time will tell and until then who knows who was right and who is wrong.
|
|
|
Post by numpty40 on May 13, 2020 9:21:08 GMT
Like you say shocking. This paragraph summed it up really: "Public Health England (PHE), the Care Quality Commission (CQC) and the Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC) have repeatedly passed the buck about who should carry out the tests, according to correspondence with care homes seen by the Guardian."
Who knows, maybe the government or someone has to seriously look at how effective the NHS is? A poisoned chalice but someone is going to have to grab the bull by the horns.... That's what the governments job is mate, grabbing the bull by the horns and working out how the testing is done. Not sure why you've attacked the nhs there. You and the other boris johnson fanciers are a bunch of utter lunatics I've not attacked the NHS and the suggestion that I have is one that is made to shut down any criticism of the NHS. The link you posted was critical of the DHSC, PHE and CQC who all come from the same budget as the NHS, are you suggesting I should have only read about the criticism of the government and not the health departments? The health sector needs to be discussed but no government of any colour has the bollocks to confront this issue. I think after this pandemic people will demand further funding for the "NHS", a further few billion will be thrown at it, a further layer of departments will be created leading to more executives and managers employed. Their task will then be to save the NHS some money and we will see further village surgeries closing, less community nurses, less porters etc etc and the whole cycle starts again....
|
|
|
Post by Pugsley on May 13, 2020 9:23:13 GMT
Furloughed workers already being demonised in the media... ... we live in a shit country populated by and run by utter vermin. I've got to say, I'm slightly pissed off at the the media lauding those still working and "keeping the country going". Do they really think that the vast majority of those who can't work are happy with the situation and only receiving 80% of their salary? Yes they do, with the aim to turn everyone on each other instead of looking where the real issues are.
|
|
|
Post by wagsastokie on May 13, 2020 9:23:49 GMT
That was my whole point yesterday. Slowly get out there, quite a lot may get it, most will either show no or little symptoms, unfortunately some will die. The other option is stay in lockdown indefinitely and bankrupt the country and cause deaths in other ways. Didn't someone say on that cruise ship that they found traces on surfaces weeks after? If that's the case, seriously, other than sticking to the basic guidelines of washing hands and 2 metres and face masks when needed then what chance have you got of not getting it at some point and hopefully you don't suffer. I think that is what its come down to in a lot of countries in Europe now. There will be a shit storm if we are found to be opening up the economy on Trump's orders. Trump wants trade and business as usual ASAP and no doubt he will be having words with Boris and could certainly influence him. Unfortunately for you it's fuck all to do with trump We all want trade and business up as quick as possible in the safest manner possible If the economy doesn't reatart soon it will not matter if a million people die We're all screwed
|
|
|
Post by sportsman on May 13, 2020 9:25:31 GMT
Furloughed workers already being demonised in the media... ... we live in a shit country populated by and run by utter vermin. I've got to say, I'm slightly pissed off at the the media lauding those still working and "keeping the country going". Do they really think that the vast majority of those who can't work are happy with the situation and only receiving 80% of their salary? No I agree. I was being a bit tongue in cheek with my comment as I do know quite a few who are happy to sit at home on 80% than go back work. Now some can play golf and tennis as well every day for some is fanstic they've told me. No travel costs for going work and back and other costs so for some without massive debt I think they will be loving this. I do know however that for the majority of people they can't wait to go back safely and on full pay.
|
|
|
Post by wagsastokie on May 13, 2020 9:26:20 GMT
That's what the governments job is mate, grabbing the bull by the horns and working out how the testing is done. Not sure why you've attacked the nhs there. You and the other boris johnson fanciers are a bunch of utter lunatics I've not attacked the NHS and the suggestion that I have is one that is made to shut down any criticism of the NHS. The link you posted was critical of the DHSC, PHE and CQC who all come from the same budget as the NHS, are you suggesting I should have only read about the criticism of the government and not the health departments? The health sector needs to be discussed but no government of any colour has the bollocks to confront this issue. I think after this pandemic people will demand further funding for the "NHS", a further few billion will be thrown at it, a further layer of departments will be created leading to more executives and managers employed. Their task will then be to save the NHS some money and we will see further village surgeries closing, less community nurses, less porters etc etc and the whole cycle starts again.... Spot on you could probably get rid of a hundred thousand NHS employees and not notice at all on the front line
|
|
|
Post by estrangedsonoffaye on May 13, 2020 9:27:00 GMT
The biggest myth out there is that the UK didn’t have testing capacity early or enough to contain an outbreak. Single Unis with expert staff were donating 25k’s worth of capacity. Diagnostic labs who contacted PHE and the government about converting went ignored. It’s a complete fallacy, we centralised testing and showed not even the slightest hint of innovation displayed in Korea and Germany by not disseminating testing. As I’ve said many times, testing 250k at this point is nowhere near as effective as testing less than 10% of that with some contact tracing. I concede our contact tracing wouldn’t have been Korea levels but it would not have been ineffective. Instead we literally stopped trying to contain it and here we are. The talk now simply has to be about that contact tracing ability, the testing capacity numbers now are more than adequate. It’s the information directing those tests that are key now. ESOF, just been thinking about what Jeremy Hunt said. Can you tell a simpleton, what the differences are between pandemic flu and pandemic corona and the differences between the preparation? Thanks.
He seems to say that, that caused the major mistake, but when I look at the WHO guidelines, what they say are clear and we simply didn't follow them. And surely, as soon as the virus arrived in Italy in January, it would have been known what type of pandemic we were talking about.
The main difference probably from the outset is simply the level of behind the scenes preparation that is ready for flu all year round. We already have advanced vaccine development all year round for seasonal flu so as soon as we identify a pandemic strain of flu (which we are constantly looking at because of surveillance) we can step up vaccine production pretty much on the spot. Despite the fact Covid was identified extremely quickly relatively to how long it took to identify SARS1, there was still a big delay compared to how quickly we’d identify a rampant flu strain. There may also be some cross coverage from seasonal flu vaccines against the pandemic too. We also have fully validated and rolled out testing in most diagnostic labs in the UK already for Flu, we wouldn’t have this sort of back and forth with validating crap tests like we’ve seen for Covid. We have decent knowledge of the mortality rates of even pandemic flu, for Covid it’s still so unclear. But I think we can safely say that the clinical manifestations are much more severe and on that topic only became apparent after serious numbers of cases. We are still struggling now to plan for what clinical symptoms Covid has (happy hypoxia can’t be treated with ventilators for instance). So it’s much harder to prep doctors on what to expect. Also it may sound counterintuitive but older people are much less at risk of pandemic flu compared to a novel virus because of years of exposure to similar strains. 95% of the deaths in the spanish flu were sub 65 years and 80% for the 2009 H1N1 strain. So prep levels for shielding the elderly are much different, Covid appears to be a disease of the elderly so prepping for a flu setting with low elderly mortality is potentially disastrous. Transmission is much higher with Covid (R value of 2.5-8.1) predicted in natural settings) compared to seasonal and pandemic flus. Thus the speed of any spread is much higher than anything we’ve seen for flu. So the planning for flu is centred around controlling that spread which is easier as it’s travelling through populations much slower which means case isolation alone has a big effect on timeframes. This is why there was such a concern (in the end) about overwhelming the health service, because over the same time your Covid cases would be way higher than a pandemic flu. This is why you have to be looking for Covid actively, with flu you can keep it steadyish, unless you are actively scouring the community you will not be able to keep a handle on Covid as we have seen. Hence why Korea have been so successful compared to Western nations in curtailing it. Additionally, “herd immunity” is easier to achieve for flu because of the slow rate, they R of H1N1 was around 1.4-1.6. So if 25% have it the “attack population” drops and transmission slows considerably as 1 in 4 can no longer be infected so that initial 1.4 drops too below 1 and transmission reverses. With Covid being much higher than that you need a lot of infected people before transmission slows, one person infects 3-4 others so the amount of people getting this before R goes sub 1 is much higher. I think there was a lot of bone headed behaviour going on, as soon as this was declared a coronavirus we should have adapted our planning and looked at what nations with previous coronavirus exposure be it SARS1/MERS or even the time Korean had with Covid and planned accordingly. But for whatever reason we (and other European nations bar those that did adapt to more East Asia models) failed to. On a final point, immunity for flu exists. We know it, we’ve seen it. It’s only when the flu mutates between seasons you have a problem. We have no concept of the immunity levels conferred by a Covid infection. It it’s a couple of years like SARS and MERS, great. If it’s a few months then it’s a bigger problem. Relying on herd immunity, before any immunity is actually fully researched was totally irresponsible IMO. You’re relying on an assumption of protection which as of yet is not fully proven.
|
|
|
Post by sportsman on May 13, 2020 9:28:37 GMT
That's it thought isn't it? If you lock down too early then there won't be enough people affected to build up the immunity. Germany were on the brink of going bust before all this if I remember correctly, their R rate is now above one, they haven't locked down again, and unless it gets way out of control I don't think they will. Still spouting this shite? Have a day off. Ey up. Two week Bayern is back 😁. Why is it no one can give their opinions on here about this without you trying shut them down? I've said many times I may be way wrong and it's my opinion and when in time we'll see if it was right or not. I haven't got a problem with that, but you seem to like every other topic on this board with people. I think you need to have the day off for your own sake.
|
|
|
Post by sportsman on May 13, 2020 9:33:15 GMT
I've got to say, I'm slightly pissed off at the the media lauding those still working and "keeping the country going". Do they really think that the vast majority of those who can't work are happy with the situation and only receiving 80% of their salary? Yes they do, with the aim to turn everyone on each other instead of looking where the real issues are. I'm not turning on anyone. I'll happily put my opinion out there for discussion and then further down the line see if it was correct or not. I'll also point the finger at the government on certain stuff. I just think this whole thing is way bigger and more hidden politically with every nation playing their part in hiding a lot and we're just puppets having to put up with it. But hey, that's Just my opinion again.
|
|
|
Post by Seymour Beaver on May 13, 2020 9:34:52 GMT
MD in Private Eye seems to think that Germany and South Korea are going to take an absolute battering compared to us when the second wave comes around. Personally, I'm doubtful of that. Firstly because it doesn't look like nearly enough of the population have had the illness to build up any proper kind of immunity, and secondly because I don't see why South Korea and Germany wouldn't just revert back to their successful-as-of-yet approaches as soon as a second wave began to show any signs of hitting. I'm not sure that is what he is saying. In the rest of the article he's full of praise for South Korea in particular. What he says is that IF there is a second wave then we (UK) may have a higher level of herd immunity because of early uncontrolled infection. That is not the same as them getting 'an absolute battering" - which he neither says nor implies. The point he is however making is that without a vaccine death tolls over - say - a five year period may be more averaged out than they are currently appear. There are lot of 'if's' 'but's' and'maybe's' in all that though.
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on May 13, 2020 9:38:57 GMT
Yes they do, with the aim to turn everyone on each other instead of looking where the real issues are. I'm not turning on anyone. I'll happily put my opinion out there for discussion and then further down the line see if it was correct or not. I'll also point the finger at the government on certain stuff. I just think this whole thing is way bigger and more hidden politically with every nation playing their part in hiding a lot and we're just puppets having to put up with it. But hey, that's Just my opinion again. Of course the reality is that in some circumstances, more vulnerable and lower paid workers are actually being abused in furlough by unscrupulous and fraudulent employers.
|
|
|
Post by Gods on May 13, 2020 9:39:04 GMT
We've had a 'mare handling this virus, be in no doubt about that. I suppose when the dust settles there will be an enquiry 5 years in the making by which time everything and everyone will have moved on. Official Enquiries into everything Wars, Paedophilia, Fraud, Corruption, Hacking they always fizzle out and disappear into space with no conclusion. They are useless and always get corrupted by the establishment in this country. They are past masters ay making sure everyone in power gets off the hook. Yes, the only winners are the lawyers paid to write them!
|
|
|
Post by sportsman on May 13, 2020 9:40:20 GMT
MD in Private Eye seems to think that Germany and South Korea are going to take an absolute battering compared to us when the second wave comes around. Personally, I'm doubtful of that. Firstly because it doesn't look like nearly enough of the population have had the illness to build up any proper kind of immunity, and secondly because I don't see why South Korea and Germany wouldn't just revert back to their successful-as-of-yet approaches as soon as a second wave began to show any signs of hitting. I'm not sure that is what he is saying. In the rest of the article he's full of praise for South Korea in particular. What he says is that IF there is a second wave then we (UK) may have a higher level of herd immunity because of early uncontrolled infection. That is not the same as them getting 'an absolute battering" - which he neither says nor implies. The point he is however making is that without a vaccine death tolls over - say - a five year period may be more averaged out than they are currently appear. There are lot of 'if's' 'but's' and'maybe's' in all that though. Yes, and it's the ifs and maybe that we and other countries seem as though we have to go with at the moment or risk many other deaths and problems due to countries going bust. It's a tough call for anyone which is why, as many things as I can pick them up on, I'm trusting our government and our scientists along with using my own common sense to do the best I can at the moment and hope a lot of the country have had it in some form and are getting immune from getting it again, fingers crossed if that is the case.
|
|
|
Post by Seymour Beaver on May 13, 2020 9:42:02 GMT
The other one is 'hopefully the fact' - unless you know it's a fact then risking the health of 70% of the nation on a "hope" is a bit of a gamble to say the least. Besides isn't this just a rehash of the "Herd Immunity" approach which was estimated to kill between 250k and 500k?? That's pretty much what it is. Let me ask you this? If you got tested in two years time, do you think the test is likely to say you've had it? I'd guess the answer will be yes. Would you know you've had it, probably and hopefully not. Then we've got to hope we are then immune from getting it again, at least until there's a vaccine or drug of some sort. Do i think there is more to this than what we know? Yes i do. A hell of lot is my guess. Money and control is probably the driving factor, but I'm sure there's more to this than us puppets out there waving a union jack flag and singing somewhere over the rainbow. Matt hancock said he knew about this way back before the start of the year. I said back then and I still say now I would have shut the borders down and not let any bugger in since December. That may have knackered up the economy so I don't know. For me and i said it back at the start, every leader of countries accepted this way too easy for me. Well rather than making guesses you should be lobbying the govt for antivaral testing. If you have that you can make meaningful extrapolations of who's had it and who hasn't. If 50% have already had it and show a high level of immunity you might be on to something - if it's only 2% then staying at home might be your best bet. In the meantime you and a carphone salesman are recommending we all risk our lives based on your own fever dream of a global conspiracy.
|
|
|
Post by sportsman on May 13, 2020 9:43:34 GMT
I'm not turning on anyone. I'll happily put my opinion out there for discussion and then further down the line see if it was correct or not. I'll also point the finger at the government on certain stuff. I just think this whole thing is way bigger and more hidden politically with every nation playing their part in hiding a lot and we're just puppets having to put up with it. But hey, that's Just my opinion again. Of course the reality is that in some circumstances, more vulnerable and lower paid workers are actually being abused in furlough by unscrupulous and fraudulent employers. Yes I agree. And like I said yesterday, I hope those companies get hauled down the right channels and dealt with. If a company puts everything into place safety wise as much as possible and that employee doesn't want go back when 99% of his her colleagues have, how does he stand then? Bit like footballers being told you've got to play soon I suppose? Don't know?
|
|