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Post by thehartshillbadger on Apr 4, 2023 20:47:23 GMT
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Apr 4, 2023 21:03:34 GMT
Shouldn’t the news channels change the tag line, to, “abc news bought for you by Pfizer…” 😆
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Post by Northy on Apr 5, 2023 2:39:14 GMT
I'm currently in the US, plenty of adverts from Pfizer pushing some medicine if you've got covid to help ease the symptoms etc What celebrity have they got doing the advert? Bruce Jenner or summat? Was more of a concerned mum and a child. Most of the adverts are to do with health and lawyers, one of claiming if you'd use Round up weedkiller from a few years ago, it causes cancer
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Apr 5, 2023 20:51:57 GMT
So as from March 2023 the Australian government has totally banned and withdrawn from use the AZ vax.
Do governments usually withdraw vaccines that are safe & effective…
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Apr 5, 2023 21:04:15 GMT
So as from March 2023 the Australian government has totally banned and withdrawn from use the AZ vax. Do governments usually withdraw vaccines that are safe & effective… I’ve not seen much in the media about this and similar factual information. Surely they are reporting it aren’t they? I’ve not seen anything, I don’t watch the news much though so I may have missed it
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Post by Widget123 on Apr 5, 2023 22:20:40 GMT
So as from March 2023 the Australian government has totally banned and withdrawn from use the AZ vax. Do governments usually withdraw vaccines that are safe & effective… Let's give this some context; the Australian AZ vaccine stocks have expired and they aren't ordering any more. In addition there are updated vaccines which may be clinically appropriate in specific settings and have been updated to reflect the newer strains of the virus which the AZ hasn't. I personally remain extremely grateful that the Covid19 virus has appeared to regress into a not entirely harmless but much more "run of the mill" virus since 2021 - the delta mutations which swamped the earlier forms of the virus sacrificed mortality / illness for spread vector making it closer to the common cold (rhinovirus) than it mutating the other way and becoming less frequent but being of the Ebola type of virus which could have been truly horrifying. Source: cesphn.org.au/news/immunisation-weekly-update-15-march-2023
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Post by gawa on Apr 5, 2023 22:39:43 GMT
What really boils my onions is people still wearing masks. Was in Majorca yesterday and there was a girl (chinese roughly 14 years old) dressed head to toe in a shellsuit or similar. It was the face mask that resonates. It was a full head and face job with a mouth hole for eating. And sure enough, there she was eating through the hole To be fair mate the Chinese have been wearing face masks long before covid. They wear them due to the air quality in their cities and I've seen plenty of tourists in the past wear them in the UK before covid was a thing.
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Post by henry on Apr 6, 2023 5:47:24 GMT
What really boils my onions is people still wearing masks. Was in Majorca yesterday and there was a girl (chinese roughly 14 years old) dressed head to toe in a shellsuit or similar. It was the face mask that resonates. It was a full head and face job with a mouth hole for eating. And sure enough, there she was eating through the hole To be fair mate the Chinese have been wearing face masks long before covid. They wear them due to the air quality in their cities and I've seen plenty of tourists in the past wear them in the UK before covid was a thing. Majorca’s not exactly smog laden though.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Apr 6, 2023 5:55:11 GMT
To be fair mate the Chinese have been wearing face masks long before covid. They wear them due to the air quality in their cities and I've seen plenty of tourists in the past wear them in the UK before covid was a thing. Majorca’s not exactly smog laden though. The point I was making was that there wasn’t an inch of skin on show and the “mask” covered her entire head apart from two cut outs for eyes and a flap over the mouth. This was in 25 degrees. I’m well aware Far Eastern folk regularly wear face masks, I was talking about the lengths this particular person went to. But then they knew that, they’re just trying to sound clever.
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Post by knype on Apr 6, 2023 6:27:14 GMT
Majorca’s not exactly smog laden though. The point I was making was that there wasn’t an inch of skin on show and the “mask” covered her entire head apart from two cut outs for eyes and a flap over the mouth. This was in 25 degrees. I’m well aware Far Eastern folk regularly wear face masks, I was talking about the lengths this particular person went to. But then they knew that, they’re just trying to sound clever. Sound being the key word!
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Post by riverman on Apr 6, 2023 7:03:42 GMT
Majorca’s not exactly smog laden though. The point I was making was that there wasn’t an inch of skin on show and the “mask” covered her entire head apart from two cut outs for eyes and a flap over the mouth. This was in 25 degrees. I’m well aware Far Eastern folk regularly wear face masks, I was talking about the lengths this particular person went to. But then they knew that, they’re just trying to sound clever. You mean she wasn't wearing goggles to stop the covids from getting in her eyes? Oh dear, I fear she may be dead before the years out!
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Post by gawa on Apr 6, 2023 7:16:40 GMT
Majorca’s not exactly smog laden though. The point I was making was that there wasn’t an inch of skin on show and the “mask” covered her entire head apart from two cut outs for eyes and a flap over the mouth. This was in 25 degrees. I’m well aware Far Eastern folk regularly wear face masks, I was talking about the lengths this particular person went to. But then they knew that, they’re just trying to sound clever. The point you made was "What really boils my onions is people still wearing masks" and then referenced a Chinese person. It's not about trying to sound clever lol. It's pointing out that wearing masks outside of China has been a thing Chinese people have done for over a decade and likely has nout to do with coronavirus
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Post by gawa on Apr 6, 2023 7:24:24 GMT
To be fair mate the Chinese have been wearing face masks long before covid. They wear them due to the air quality in their cities and I've seen plenty of tourists in the past wear them in the UK before covid was a thing. Majorca’s not exactly smog laden though. Agree but neithers Northern Ireland and you always see them coming off their coaches with masks at the giants causeway or game of thrones stuff.
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Post by gawa on Apr 6, 2023 7:26:45 GMT
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Post by felonious on Apr 6, 2023 7:29:06 GMT
Majorca’s not exactly smog laden though. The point I was making was that there wasn’t an inch of skin on show and the “mask” covered her entire head apart from two cut outs for eyes and a flap over the mouth. This was in 25 degrees. I’m well aware Far Eastern folk regularly wear face masks, I was talking about the lengths this particular person went to. But then they knew that, they’re just trying to sound clever. I take it the hole was big enough to shove vitamin D supplements through....
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Apr 6, 2023 8:42:54 GMT
So as from March 2023 the Australian government has totally banned and withdrawn from use the AZ vax. Do governments usually withdraw vaccines that are safe & effective… Let's give this some context; the Australian AZ vaccine stocks have expired and they aren't ordering any more. In addition there are updated vaccines which may be clinically appropriate in specific settings and have been updated to reflect the newer strains of the virus which the AZ hasn't. I personally remain extremely grateful that the Covid19 virus has appeared to regress into a not entirely harmless but much more "run of the mill" virus since 2021 - the delta mutations which swamped the earlier forms of the virus sacrificed mortality / illness for spread vector making it closer to the common cold (rhinovirus) than it mutating the other way and becoming less frequent but being of the Ebola type of virus which could have been truly horrifying. Source: cesphn.org.au/news/immunisation-weekly-update-15-march-2023Let’s give some further context, the Oz government became concerned about the safety of the AZ vx in 2021… Stocks expiring or not is irrelevant, it’s BANNED for use in humans It’s another argument whether or not they acted quickly enough Edit: further context, they banned it because of concerns around TTS, not because it hadn’t evolved.
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Post by mtrstudent on Apr 7, 2023 19:21:35 GMT
Aren't surprised some people say they have long-COVID when they probably don't. We all tend to glob onto things on the news. The study I posted used a COVID test as the first requirement to be counted as long-COVID. They showed higher death rates out to at least a year, with about 100% more chance of dying compared with someone like you who didn't get a positive test... so I think it's pretty convincing that damage from COVID infection can push some people over the edge. It's part of the excess deaths but is it a big part? I'm not sure the numbers confirm either way yet?
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Post by mtrstudent on Apr 7, 2023 19:30:59 GMT
I’ll read that study in detail again but did it say if the participants were vaccinated subsequently? The last person they included was in July 31, 2020 so there's at least six months of "vaccine free" there*. The people enrolled in August would be 9 months. The death rates in long-COVID sufferers were already way higher within 6 months The obvious thing though is that given vaccination doesn’t stop transmission then at best we would have to accept these heart complications as something we’d have to live with, but and this is the big but, the excess deaths are closely correlated with the countries with the highest prevalence of vaccination. I'm not sure that it's true that deaths correlate with the prevalence of vaccination unless you carefully try different combinations of countries and time periods to try and squeeze out the answer you want. I know that's what a lot of bloggers and YouTubers have done but I don't buy it. If areas with higher vaccination are seeing more excess deaths, then how confident are you that it's because of the vaccine? What about other differences in things like long-COVID or "harvesting"? If somewhere had a lot of COVID deaths that took out the oldest and sickest, then shouldn't deaths go down in that region after? *maybe some of them were in vaccine trials, I dunno. Even at the end of the trial though, would we expect one group to get vaccinated more than the other? So long as vaccination rates are similar, differences from even the last month of the trial should be explained by long-COVID.
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Post by mtrstudent on Apr 7, 2023 19:59:35 GMT
Risk of death following COVID-19 vaccination or positive SARS-CoV-2 test in young people in England. Excess deaths in the 12 weeks after infection or vaccination in 12-29 year olds. I don't know the control method they used so I'm not sure I'm interpreting it right, but the headlines: - unvaccinated + covid infection = +83 deaths per million - vaccinated + covid infection = +17 deaths per million - non-mRNA vaccine in females 12-29 = +60 deaths per million. - no other significant changes from vaccination, so males got off lucky. Even though almost everyone gets infected at some point, AZ to girls & young women seems a bad idea. It's more likely than not going to result in fewer deaths, but by a tiny margin compared with mRNA. No significant increase in death following mRNA vaccination, but a big decrease in the likelihood of dying after you get COVID if you're vaccinated first. It's kinda shitty to say because any death is a tragedy, but for 12-29 year olds the number of deaths within 12 weeks isn't huge even from infection. Things could have been a lot worse if the virus had evolved differently!
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Apr 7, 2023 20:14:56 GMT
I’ll read that study in detail again but did it say if the participants were vaccinated subsequently? The last person they included was in July 31, 2020 so there's at least six months of "vaccine free" there*. The people enrolled in August would be 9 months. The death rates in long-COVID sufferers were already way higher within 6 months The obvious thing though is that given vaccination doesn’t stop transmission then at best we would have to accept these heart complications as something we’d have to live with, but and this is the big but, the excess deaths are closely correlated with the countries with the highest prevalence of vaccination. I'm not sure that it's true that deaths correlate with the prevalence of vaccination unless you carefully try different combinations of countries and time periods to try and squeeze out the answer you want. I know that's what a lot of bloggers and YouTubers have done but I don't buy it. If areas with higher vaccination are seeing more excess deaths, then how confident are you that it's because of the vaccine? What about other differences in things like long-COVID or "harvesting"? If somewhere had a lot of COVID deaths that took out the oldest and sickest, then shouldn't deaths go down in that region after? *maybe some of them were in vaccine trials, I dunno. Even at the end of the trial though, would we expect one group to get vaccinated more than the other? So long as vaccination rates are similar, differences from even the last month of the trial should be explained by long-COVID. You’re a data guy, are you genuinely saying that we shouldn’t correlate countries with high vax rates with excess deaths, I think you’re clutching at straws and have a bias in that you don’t want to contemplate your long held viewpoint on covid vaccine advocacy. What about Africa, are they being impacted by these “long covid” deaths. You can’t have it both ways. As a data guy you will know that the first thing you should do in problem solving is situational analysis and looking for catalysts for deviation from expected behaviour. It’s a dereliction of duty that people haven’t ruled in/out the most likely cause of excess deaths. Every passing days shows this vaccine is far from safe and effective What did you think of the original safety data?
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Apr 7, 2023 21:17:30 GMT
And now masks are little to no use even in health care settings…
Bit by bit the “science” is slowly starting to unravel, but it’s ok the greatest wealth transfer the world has ever seen has been completed and the (poorer) plebs can get back to something approaching normal
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Post by mtrstudent on Apr 7, 2023 22:30:24 GMT
[snip] You’re a data guy, are you genuinely saying that we shouldn’t correlate countries with high vax rates with excess deaths, I think you’re clutching at straws and have a bias in that you don’t want to contemplate your long held viewpoint on covid vaccine advocacy. What about Africa, are they being impacted by these “long covid” deaths. You can’t have it both ways. As a data guy you will know that the first thing you should do in problem solving is situational analysis and looking for catalysts for deviation from expected behaviour. It’s a dereliction of duty that people haven’t ruled in/out the most likely cause of excess deaths. Every passing days shows this vaccine is far from safe and effective What did you think of the original safety data? I think correlations are useful but I agree with your post from the other day when you thought the quoted long-COVID study wasn't properly controlled so you didn't seem to believe the results. Definitely use correlations as a starting point, but don't be too hasty. It seems like loads of groups are trying to rule out different causes of deaths. It's just really hard to do controlled tests for a lot of cases, it takes time for the data to come in etc. Across US states (and DC) there's a negative correlation between vaccination and excess deaths that's significant in 2021 but not significant from Jan 2022-Feb 2023. So the data there show more vaccine doses = fewer excess deaths. If you're advocating using correlations, then does that switch your opinion to thinking vaccines can't be blamed for extra deaths?
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Apr 8, 2023 12:08:21 GMT
[snip] You’re a data guy, are you genuinely saying that we shouldn’t correlate countries with high vax rates with excess deaths, I think you’re clutching at straws and have a bias in that you don’t want to contemplate your long held viewpoint on covid vaccine advocacy. What about Africa, are they being impacted by these “long covid” deaths. You can’t have it both ways. As a data guy you will know that the first thing you should do in problem solving is situational analysis and looking for catalysts for deviation from expected behaviour. It’s a dereliction of duty that people haven’t ruled in/out the most likely cause of excess deaths. Every passing days shows this vaccine is far from safe and effective What did you think of the original safety data? I think correlations are useful but I agree with your post from the other day when you thought the quoted long-COVID study wasn't properly controlled so you didn't seem to believe the results. Definitely use correlations as a starting point, but don't be too hasty. It seems like loads of groups are trying to rule out different causes of deaths. It's just really hard to do controlled tests for a lot of cases, it takes time for the data to come in etc. Across US states (and DC) there's a negative correlation between vaccination and excess deaths that's significant in 2021 but not significant from Jan 2022-Feb 2023. So the data there show more vaccine doses = fewer excess deaths. If you're advocating using correlations, then does that switch your opinion to thinking vaccines can't be blamed for extra deaths? I just want to see a proper unbiased review to ascertain the most likely cause. A simple and effective method would be to measure excess deaths in the unvaxxed cohort versus the vaxxed. I really can’t understand why this can be easily and quickly done? We then won’t need to get into intellectual hypothesising we should have a good empirical rational for cause. I have a bias now in that given lie after lie regarding this vaccine I’m extremely skeptical of any government study unless its authors declare no conflict of interest. By the way, what did you make of AZ being banned in Oz?
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Post by mtrstudent on Apr 8, 2023 17:27:26 GMT
I just want to see a proper unbiased review to ascertain the most likely cause. A simple and effective method would be to measure excess deaths in the unvaxxed cohort versus the vaxxed. I really can’t understand why this can be easily and quickly done? We then won’t need to get into intellectual hypothesising we should have a good empirical rational for cause. I have a bias now in that given lie after lie regarding this vaccine I’m extremely skeptical of any government study unless its authors declare no conflict of interest. By the way, what did you make of AZ being banned in Oz? Vaccinated and un-vaccinated people are statistically quite different so I'd only rely heavily on studies with a careful control method. I'm reading up about the method in the new English young people one I posted above and it seems like it just takes time to get enough data. Vaccinated people tend to be older and higher risk, plus there are other correlations with income, education, race, living arrangements etc. You previously mentioned correlating vaccination rate versus excess deaths, and in the US it seems like higher vaccination rate means fewer excess deaths. Did that affect your beliefs at all? I didn't read the analysis behind the Australian AZ decision. Based on other work it makes sense to prefer mRNA vaccines to AZ, and to avoid giving AZ to girls & young women.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Apr 8, 2023 17:30:04 GMT
Narrative continues to crumble. I’ve been told by a Swiss colleague (I’ll post a link when I can find it in the media!) that the Swiss health authorities have pulled the jab for general use. A doctor can now prescribe it for anyone over 16 BUT the doctor will then bear responsibility for harms caused. There doesn’t appear to be exceptions for the “at risk” groups. If this is substantiated this is incredibly concerning Edit: not sure if this is a credible source report24.news/paukenschlag-schweiz-zieht-saemtliche-covid-impfempfehlungen-zurueck/?feed_id=29350
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Post by mtrstudent on Apr 8, 2023 19:22:47 GMT
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Apr 8, 2023 19:32:12 GMT
No surprise surely? The whole thing is a sham
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Post by mtrstudent on Apr 8, 2023 20:29:55 GMT
No surprise surely? The whole thing is a sham Sadly I'm not surprised. At least there is still a free press there who can uncover political games like this.
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Post by mtrstudent on Apr 9, 2023 17:30:16 GMT
It looks like the government deleted analysis showing no significant risk following vaccination and hid the data showing huge risks from COVID-19 infection. This is the biggest scandal I remember seeing. The Florida government fiddled the results to lie to the public and scare them about vaccines, and they must have known that's what they were doing. I think trying to trick the public about health risks is just awful, this needs investigating for fraud.
*I could easily be wrong about medical stuff, but the newspaper asked four experts who all said the same thing.
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Post by mtrstudent on Apr 9, 2023 17:54:45 GMT
IMO there are hints of vaccine risks in the Florida data but "not significant" could just mean that risks aren't big enough to be noticeable.
E.g.: if you shoot 10 people in the head you'd notice quickly that "shooting heads causes death". But what if you're testing something way slower or less lethal? You'd need loads more than 10 people.
The Florida data show COVID infection is way more dangerous than vaccination. If the vaccines increase risk, it's small enough that it can't be reliably detected in the Florida data. You'd need more people to be sure.
The new UK data also showed an insignificant increase in risk of cardiac death among 12-29 year old males following mRNA vaccination. If you combined that with Florida we might be able to get a significant result somewhere around 3 cardiac deaths per million vaccinated males. That's a lot of lives saved versus getting infected without a vaccine, but it's still real.
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