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Post by knype on Mar 23, 2023 9:09:11 GMT
Out of interest, why does everyone on here seem to automatically attribute the high excess deaths to the vaccine? It seems hypocritical when they say covid wasn’t dangerous but assume the vaccine is. What about other factors: 1. Health being neglected during covid 2. Much higher poverty here after years of cuts to essential services and wage stagnation and rubbish housing. 3. Cost of living crisis 4. State of our health service and waiting lists. A combination of the above. All of the above attributed to lockdowns?
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 23, 2023 9:19:31 GMT
Out of interest, why does everyone on here seem to automatically attribute the high excess deaths to the vaccine? It seems hypocritical when they say covid wasn’t dangerous but assume the vaccine is. What about other factors: 1. Health being neglected during covid 2. Much higher poverty here after years of cuts to essential services and wage stagnation and rubbish housing. 3. Cost of living crisis 4. State of our health service and waiting lists. A combination of the above. All of the above attributed to lockdowns? 2 is down to austerity. 3 more so Ukraine 4 was terrible pre pandemic. The pandemic made all of the above worse (and obviously caused 1), but brexit has impacted 2, 3 and 4 as well. My point is, it isn’t necessarily the vaccine. People on here seem to blame the vaccine for excess deaths now, without factoring in the billions of vaccines administered and the relatively few problems caused by it in proportion. Also all of the above could be worse had there been no lockdowns at all. Or we would have had far more excess deaths during the pandemic. Admittedly generally the weak, but that wouldn’t be ideal. Also 1 and 4 would probably be worse had there been no lockdowns as the nhs would only be treating covid, just much more of it.
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Post by knype on Mar 23, 2023 10:04:19 GMT
All of the above attributed to lockdowns? 2 is down to austerity. 3 more so Ukraine 4 was terrible pre pandemic. The pandemic made all of the above worse (and obviously caused 1), but brexit has impacted 2, 3 and 4 as well. My point is, it isn’t necessarily the vaccine. People on here seem to blame the vaccine for excess deaths now, without factoring in the billions of vaccines administered and the relatively few problems caused by it in proportion. Also all of the above could be worse had there been no lockdowns at all. Or we would have had far more excess deaths during the pandemic. Admittedly generally the weak, but that wouldn’t be ideal. Also 1 and 4 would probably be worse had there been no lockdowns as the nhs would only be treating covid, just much more of it. I think people are blaming the vaccines and the ridiculous restrictions and lockdowns in equal portions?
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 23, 2023 17:16:49 GMT
2 is down to austerity. 3 more so Ukraine 4 was terrible pre pandemic. The pandemic made all of the above worse (and obviously caused 1), but brexit has impacted 2, 3 and 4 as well. My point is, it isn’t necessarily the vaccine. People on here seem to blame the vaccine for excess deaths now, without factoring in the billions of vaccines administered and the relatively few problems caused by it in proportion. Also all of the above could be worse had there been no lockdowns at all. Or we would have had far more excess deaths during the pandemic. Admittedly generally the weak, but that wouldn’t be ideal. Also 1 and 4 would probably be worse had there been no lockdowns as the nhs would only be treating covid, just much more of it. I think people are blaming the vaccines and the ridiculous restrictions and lockdowns in equal portions? Fair enough. There are very good arguments to say the alternative of no vaccine, no restrictions and no lockdowns would have been significantly worse for the nation.
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Post by knype on Mar 23, 2023 19:30:13 GMT
I think people are blaming the vaccines and the ridiculous restrictions and lockdowns in equal portions? Fair enough. There are very good arguments to say the alternative of no vaccine, no restrictions and no lockdowns would have been significantly worse for the nation. Opinions eh
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Mar 25, 2023 8:55:52 GMT
Bang on as ever from Slater.
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Post by starkiller on Mar 25, 2023 10:51:56 GMT
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Post by mutters on Mar 27, 2023 21:32:51 GMT
While we were enjoying the England V Italy victory hangover, the Coronavirus Act was being extended for another 6 months, very quietly, swept under the carpet
All in the public interest, of course
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Post by starkiller on Mar 28, 2023 9:08:52 GMT
While we were enjoying the England V Italy victory hangover, the Coronavirus Act was being extended for another 6 months, very quietly, swept under the carpet All in the public interest, of course And no public says. Exactly how tyranny becomes permanent. Having looked at the small print of some of this (conveniently ready in 2020) Act, it is the most sinister Act ever introduced in the entire history of the British Isles. With almost full cross-party support and lack of resistance, except for an honourable few. Powers that go to the extreme under the premise of 'perceived threat'. This Act also allows continued experimental trial injections to be given, with no threat of prosecution under 'emergency' legislation, when there is no emergency.Publicly funded, extreme corporate profiteering. And if there are meagre payouts, despite the deliberate difficulty of proving vaccine damage, the taxpayer also covers those as well. Expect continued misuse of the words 'emergency' and 'crisis' to impose more totalitarian legislation. The Carbon Hoax, being the prime one.
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Post by questionable on Mar 30, 2023 10:18:03 GMT
Somehow managed to dodge it “until” now...
Can’t recall ever having an headache so bad, literally felt as if my head was going to explode and the pain behind my eyes was agonising. Slept the worst of it off I hope as slept for a solid 20 hours, it’s just the lethargic feeling now and the utterly insane experience of reading my works emails over and over again and for the life of me I can’t grasp the content of them, weird feeling
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Apr 1, 2023 21:48:31 GMT
Seems like the WHO is about 6 months your standard conspiracy theorist
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Post by henry on Apr 2, 2023 10:32:54 GMT
Seems like the WHO is about 6 months your standard conspiracy theorist Pregnant Persons
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Post by mtrstudent on Apr 2, 2023 20:17:33 GMT
Long COVID associated with huge increase in deaths within 12 months of infection. "as 2.8% of individuals with PCC [people with long COVID] vs 1.2% of controls [people without long COVID] died". Seems very convincing that COVID infection can cause serious long-term heart & circulation problems so could be to blame for some of the excess deaths we were seeing. So far for vaccines I've seen lots of studies showing it's far safer than infection in the short term (<72 days), nothing showing any long-term risks. I see plenty of YouTubers disagreeing though.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Apr 2, 2023 20:56:31 GMT
Long COVID associated with huge increase in deaths within 12 months of infection. "as 2.8% of individuals with PCC [people with long COVID] vs 1.2% of controls [people without long COVID] died". Seems very convincing that COVID infection can cause serious long-term heart & circulation problems so could be to blame for some of the excess deaths we were seeing. So far for vaccines I've seen lots of studies showing it's far safer than infection in the short term (<72 days), nothing showing any long-term risks. I see plenty of YouTubers disagreeing though. Can you show a study that shows the deaths from long covid in people who were unvaccinated It doesn’t seem very convincing at all, seems like people are desperate to avoid the most logical conclusion but let’s add this one to climate change, diet, too much exercise, computer games etc etc
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Apr 2, 2023 20:59:40 GMT
And they at least had the decency to highlight the study limitations that frankly render it meaningless:
There are limitations to the initial studies assessing PCC rates and outcomes. Estimates were often based on hospitalized patients who had a higher severity of illness.11-15 Many reports were based on patient surveys that did not include comparison groups of similar individuals. Follow-up on individuals with milder cases has been difficult, given that individuals often self-manage. In addition, early reports were often research letters or field reports not subject to peer review.16,17 Finally, individuals at risk for PCC tend to have higher baseline risks due to preexisting conditions, resulting in selection bias for the exposure cohort.18-20
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Apr 2, 2023 21:15:29 GMT
What really boils my onions is people still wearing masks. Was in Majorca yesterday and there was a girl (chinese roughly 14 years old) dressed head to toe in a shellsuit or similar. It was the face mask that resonates. It was a full head and face job with a mouth hole for eating. And sure enough, there she was eating through the hole
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Post by mtrstudent on Apr 2, 2023 22:51:20 GMT
Long COVID associated with huge increase in deaths within 12 months of infection. "as 2.8% of individuals with PCC [people with long COVID] vs 1.2% of controls [people without long COVID] died". Seems very convincing that COVID infection can cause serious long-term heart & circulation problems so could be to blame for some of the excess deaths we were seeing. So far for vaccines I've seen lots of studies showing it's far safer than infection in the short term (<72 days), nothing showing any long-term risks. I see plenty of YouTubers disagreeing though. Can you show a study that shows the deaths from long covid in people who were unvaccinated It doesn’t seem very convincing at all, seems like people are desperate to avoid the most logical conclusion but let’s add this one to climate change, diet, too much exercise, computer games etc etc The death rate differences are huge before the first COVID vaccine was even approved (Fig 2), so those death differences are all in unvaccinated people.
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Post by mtrstudent on Apr 2, 2023 22:53:38 GMT
And they at least had the decency to highlight the study limitations that frankly render it meaningless: There are limitations to the initial studies assessing PCC rates and outcomes. Estimates were often based on hospitalized patients who had a higher severity of illness.11-15 Many reports were based on patient surveys that did not include comparison groups of similar individuals. Follow-up on individuals with milder cases has been difficult, given that individuals often self-manage. In addition, early reports were often research letters or field reports not subject to peer review.16,17 Finally, individuals at risk for PCC tend to have higher baseline risks due to preexisting conditions, resulting in selection bias for the exposure cohort.18-20 That's the new study's intro talking about past studies. Not the new one.
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Post by henry on Apr 3, 2023 5:52:42 GMT
Long COVID associated with huge increase in deaths within 12 months of infection. "as 2.8% of individuals with PCC [people with long COVID] vs 1.2% of controls [people without long COVID] died". Seems very convincing that COVID infection can cause serious long-term heart & circulation problems so could be to blame for some of the excess deaths we were seeing. So far for vaccines I've seen lots of studies showing it's far safer than infection in the short term (<72 days), nothing showing any long-term risks. I see plenty of YouTubers disagreeing though. Deaths within 12 months of infection, the new within 28 days of a positive test.
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Post by wannabee on Apr 3, 2023 7:38:36 GMT
What really boils my onions is people still wearing masks. Was in Majorca yesterday and there was a girl (chinese roughly 14 years old) dressed head to toe in a shellsuit or similar. It was the face mask that resonates. It was a full head and face job with a mouth hole for eating. And sure enough, there she was eating through the hole I'm genuinely curious, why would a 14 year old Oriental Girl wearing a face mask bother you? Was in HK recently and the law on wearing masks had only just been lifted after 3 years and I'd say 95+% people still wore them
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Post by elystokie on Apr 3, 2023 8:06:29 GMT
What really boils my onions is people still wearing masks. Was in Majorca yesterday and there was a girl (chinese roughly 14 years old) dressed head to toe in a shellsuit or similar. It was the face mask that resonates. It was a full head and face job with a mouth hole for eating. And sure enough, there she was eating through the hole I'm genuinely curious, why would a 14 year old Oriental Girl wearing a face mask bother you? Was in HK recently and the law on wearing masks had only just been lifted after 3 years and I'd say 95+% people still wore them On the public transport systems in Thailand last year the mandatory wearing of masks on buses, trains, ferries, BTS and underground systems was lifted but the government's chief health advisor recommended people carry on wearing them. There was still pretty much 100% compliance from what I saw, initially I didn't bother personally but I soon felt quite rude to be honest.
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Post by wannabee on Apr 3, 2023 9:12:52 GMT
I'm genuinely curious, why would a 14 year old Oriental Girl wearing a face mask bother you? Was in HK recently and the law on wearing masks had only just been lifted after 3 years and I'd say 95+% people still wore them On the public transport systems in Thailand last year the mandatory wearing of masks on buses, trains, ferries, BTS and underground systems was lifted but the government's chief health advisor recommended people carry on wearing them. There was still pretty much 100% compliance from what I saw, initially I didn't bother personally but I soon felt quite rude to be honest. It also helps to cut down on that awful f'kin spitting in China
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Apr 3, 2023 9:33:58 GMT
What really boils my onions is people still wearing masks. Was in Majorca yesterday and there was a girl (chinese roughly 14 years old) dressed head to toe in a shellsuit or similar. It was the face mask that resonates. It was a full head and face job with a mouth hole for eating. And sure enough, there she was eating through the hole I'm genuinely curious, why would a 14 year old Oriental Girl wearing a face mask bother you? Was in HK recently and the law on wearing masks had only just been lifted after 3 years and I'd say 95+% people still wore them Read my post
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Post by wannabee on Apr 3, 2023 9:48:55 GMT
I'm genuinely curious, why would a 14 year old Oriental Girl wearing a face mask bother you? Was in HK recently and the law on wearing masks had only just been lifted after 3 years and I'd say 95+% people still wore them Read my post The colour of the mask didn't match the shellsuit?
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Post by mtrstudent on Apr 3, 2023 14:34:42 GMT
Long COVID associated with huge increase in deaths within 12 months of infection. "as 2.8% of individuals with PCC [people with long COVID] vs 1.2% of controls [people without long COVID] died". Seems very convincing that COVID infection can cause serious long-term heart & circulation problems so could be to blame for some of the excess deaths we were seeing. So far for vaccines I've seen lots of studies showing it's far safer than infection in the short term (<72 days), nothing showing any long-term risks. I see plenty of YouTubers disagreeing though. Deaths within 12 months of infection, the new within 28 days of a positive test. It was a *controlled* study comparing two groups: 1. People who had a positive test followed within months by multiple long-COVID symptoms reported to doctors 2. People with no positive test but matched in age, income, pre-existing conditions etc. So the loads of extra heart failures, strokes, deaths etc were associated with long COVID specifically.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Apr 3, 2023 17:58:00 GMT
Deaths within 12 months of infection, the new within 28 days of a positive test. It was a *controlled* study comparing two groups: 1. People who had a positive test followed within months by multiple long-COVID symptoms reported to doctors 2. People with no positive test but matched in age, income, pre-existing conditions etc. So the loads of extra heart failures, strokes, deaths etc were associated with long COVID specifically. I’ll read that study in detail again but did it say if the participants were vaccinated subsequently? The obvious thing though is that given vaccination doesn’t stop transmission then at best we would have to accept these heart complications as something we’d have to live with, but and this is the big but, the excess deaths are closely correlated with the countries with the highest prevalence of vaccination. You seem like a reasonably intelligent person and this is what surprised me the most in the last year, people who strongly advocated for vaccination seem to be intractable in their belief that the vax is good and the downside is limited when with every passing day more data comes to light to show that that’s clearly not the case. However no one seems to want to look at the obvious culprit for excess deaths. Wouldn’t it be easy to put this to bed by looking at the excess deaths in vaxxed versus unvaxxed? Why are people reluctant to countenance the possibility that the vax may have done more harm than good? I’ve gone from pro covid vax to now completely regretting having it and believing that it will cause more damage than good. People are afraid because of what might come out of the can if they open the lid. It behoves the scientific community to investigate this and stop coming out with a plethora of nonsensical reasons for excess deaths. -Initial trial & safety data is seriously underwhelming -AZ vax quietly mothballed -Moderna vax banned in some countries -Some countries now require a doctors reason to be vaxxed in certain circumstances -WHO now not recommending vax for healthy kids Like I said the MSM narrative seems to be about 6 months behind you standard conspiracy theorist. The whole think stinks
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Post by Davef on Apr 3, 2023 21:54:27 GMT
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Post by Northy on Apr 4, 2023 18:15:09 GMT
I'm currently in the US, plenty of adverts from Pfizer pushing some medicine if you've got covid to help ease the symptoms etc
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Apr 4, 2023 18:25:04 GMT
I'm currently in the US, plenty of adverts from Pfizer pushing some medicine if you've got covid to help ease the symptoms etc What celebrity have they got doing the advert? Bruce Jenner or summat?
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Post by Davef on Apr 4, 2023 20:44:51 GMT
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