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Post by prestwichpotter on Jun 22, 2021 13:23:12 GMT
You've just completely avoided the question, which is fine. From what I've seen on this message board you've supported lockdowns and restrictions consistently. In fact we've had many debates over it. I'm asking a pretty reasonable question, at what point would you feel we now have to get rid of all restrictions and reclaim our lives? Of course, you don't have to answer but it's a fair question. Work may have been great for you, staying employed, in hotels, doing the things you like doing and that's great. But for many millions, they've lost everything from jobs, income, social life, family and in many cases their life - Be it by suicide, untreated illness or many others. I just find it a bit mystifying that you criticise elites, yet have been fairly supportive of the restrictions that elites have put on your life. I might have a bit of a go at answering the question with regards to why I'm listening to people who're in main idiots largely out of touch with reality. I adhere to the restrictions not for my individual benefit and there have been many times to my detriment I've adhered to them but do so in the hope it will help other people. I generally believe that fewer interactions will result in less spread of the disease which will lead to fewer deaths and end the restrictions sooner. I think I'd start considering my options if deaths remained under 20 for 4 more weeks and unlocking did not continue. I think this is the first time in the entire pandemic the government has been cautious and what we do know is that if they'd have been more cautious other times it would have saved many lives so I'm not going to feel too aggrieved at where we are now. I think back to last summer where we thought we had this sorted and then before we knew if we were in a terrible position. For all the governments faults I actually thought the 3 stage roadmap to get us to the 21st June was the correct measure with just the right amount of caution, it had dates that people and businesses could work towards to get themselves back on track. And frustratingly because of the success of the vaccine rollout it was working like a dream, and they had to go and spoil it with their reluctance to put India on the red list because of Johnson's desperate need to visit at the time. I will happily continue to wear my mask until 19th July, not because I want to particularly but for the bus/tram drivers, shop workers, waiting/bar staff who have helped keep us sane through this pandemic often for minimum wage........
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Post by chad on Jun 22, 2021 13:52:05 GMT
If you oppose the "elites" why are you listening to every word they say and living your life in accordance with their dystopian rules?What is your red line for covid restrictions? At what point would you say "this is getting creepy as fuck, I'm not doing this anymore". We are already at a point where pretty much no one in the UK is dying anymore from this virus, therefore I'm intrigued to know at what point you would stop complying, if ever. You need to think about some of the emotive language you use. I've been out working since day one, staying in hotels, working away, I got Covid, was pretty ill from it and am still suffering from it to an extent. And throughout this I've just got on with life as normally as possible, took a couple of UK breaks when they were allowed, been to theme parks, the zoo, restaurants with the family etc etc. So when you talk about "living your life in according with dystopian rules" honestly it's just amusing.......... Drama Queens the lot of em
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Post by franklin on Jun 22, 2021 13:59:25 GMT
So the government are allowing at least 60k for the semi and final of the Euros. One question how can potentially 60k fans from overseas be allowed to travel with no quarantine and we're not.
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Post by henry on Jun 22, 2021 14:20:21 GMT
So the government are allowing at least 60k for the semi and final of the Euros. One question how can potentially 60k fans from overseas be allowed to travel with no quarantine and we're not. It’s safe today, wasn’t yesterday, but it is today.
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Post by franklin on Jun 22, 2021 14:23:20 GMT
So the government are allowing at least 60k for the semi and final of the Euros. One question how can potentially 60k fans from overseas be allowed to travel with no quarantine and we're not. It’s safe today, wasn’t yesterday, but it is today. Ah thought so but it'll be unsafe the day after I bet.
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Post by henry on Jun 22, 2021 14:43:59 GMT
It’s safe today, wasn’t yesterday, but it is today. Ah thought so but it'll be unsafe the day after I bet. Goes without saying. Wembley variant imminent.
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 22, 2021 15:16:46 GMT
Remember how lots of people said the same thing in March and October 2020? And then over 100k Brits died? Clearly you need to look at more things than how many people died over the last week, because the thing with viruses is that they can spread. Not this bollocks again. The entirety of the vulnerable and the majority of the UK have been vaccinated. Stop being such an anti vaxxer. Right! Two options for the logic: #1: "not many people are dying right now" --> "why are we doing anything?" #2: "how many people are vulnerable" + other things like "how infectious is this strain" --> "here's what to do". I picked on your other post for pushing thought process #1, which already went really wrong twice. Going with #2 is way better and is why we'll be able to open up even more. Hell, case & hospital numbers might even be going up when they make the call about July and I'd be pissed if they followed an argument like #1 and cancelled it because "numbers are going up now", instead of using approach #2 and seeing things will be fine.
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 22, 2021 15:23:56 GMT
Remember how lots of people said the same thing in March and October 2020? And then over 100k Brits died? Clearly you need to look at more things than how many people died over the last week, because the thing with viruses is that they can spread. Do the vaccines not work then? We've been through this - the vaccines work great. About a week after the second dose of AstraZeneca, you're ~92 % less likely to need hospital from covid. That's brilliant but withunder 60% fully vaccinated, you can't expect full protection. The way I see it is a little bit like being on a building site when we've just half finished the roof. I'm saying "we should check the forecast and put a tarp up over the hole if it's gonna rain". The response "are you saying that roofs don't work?" doesn't really make sense to me. Running the numbers makes sense though - Warwick (and others) did it and they showed how we could get a nasty third wave. Luckily the new data suggest we'll be fine and can probably safely open up sooner.
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 22, 2021 15:24:52 GMT
Thank fck I havnt had my vaccine yet, this is a bit er... worrying. A retired former police officer filing complaints to the police for the true results of vaccines www.bitchute.com/video/kHI9SOocHi9c/1300 deaths and 1 million cases, caused by the vaccine if I understood correctly. Thanks for the link, there were other interesting vids on that website as well. My mother, her cousin and my younger brother have so far refused to take the vaccine, but I got my first vaccine injection 5.5 weeks ago. The second injection is on Wednesday, but I will make them a list of my 12 side effects first and mail them in advance. Where's the 1300 deaths info coming from?
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 22, 2021 15:26:42 GMT
Enjoy yourself! Doing anything for the Euros? Where'd you get those numbers from? Here's what I got from the CDC ( 2019, 2020): 2019 - 2.85 million 2020 - 3.35 million Maybe you saw estimated non-covid deaths? NZ and Aus deaths went down so people are thinking weeks of lockdowns and other anti-covid precuations actually reduce non-covid deaths. I wouldn't be surprised if your source reckons 2.65 million non-covid in 2020*. Obviously then they'd be saying 0.7 million covid deaths. The numbers since March 2020 are in this code. 630k more than normal in the U.S.. Deaths lower than normal in Japan, S Korea, Taiwan, NZ and Australia. *200k lives "saved" by lockdowns etc doesn't seem right though. NZ only saw deaths drop by 5%, which would be ~140k in the U.S. CNN? But they're known for telling lies. Not following Euros, only international team I'm interested in will hopefully be playing the Lions later this year and of course the olympic sevens. That's the CDC, not CNN. So yeah, I'm pretty certain deaths went up from 2.85 million to 3.35 million. Whoever told you they went down was either trying to estimate non-covid deaths, or was misleading you.
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Post by franklin on Jun 22, 2021 15:28:06 GMT
The Scots will be seething 9th August holy shit.
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 22, 2021 15:29:42 GMT
Remember how lots of people said the same thing in March and October 2020? And then over 100k Brits died? Clearly you need to look at more things than how many people died over the last week, because the thing with viruses is that they can spread. Over 100k people did not all die from covid. I get the argument that you can record deaths in different ways: JFK didn't die from being shot, he died from lack of oxygen to the brain etc. How do you estimate the number of covid deaths? Why are you so certain the experts who work on this are doing it wrong? Why did UK deaths go up by 130k total? Why did those extra deaths all happen when there was shitload of covid, but deaths were normal or below when there wasn't shitload of covid? Why did death rates in New Zealand and Australia come in below normal? Seems obvious to me, we can be confident that >130k Brits died because of covid, and it would have been higher if we hadn't slowed the spread down.
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 22, 2021 15:31:47 GMT
I agree that if there are incentives for ventilators then that's risky. Your conspiracy that my gf's hospital was trying to ram 500% more people than normal onto vents doesn't make sense because they gave everyone dexamethasone, which unlike HCQ was shown to reduce need for vents. Also I bet they could get sued for malpractice for needless venting. And it doesn't explain why Italy and the NHS also needed a shitload of vents. Maybe some patients were needlessly vented. But clearly covid has killed millions worldwide, and the conspiracy that it hasn't is obviously very silly. Oh Come on! No one is saying that 3,784,517 people haven't died or that Covid doesn't exist. The criticism is about the over-the-top response. The constant fudging of facts, the misreporting of did they die with or from covid. And I work with hospital administrations - believe me, people WITH COVID were put on the vent whether they needed it or not, and hospitals were paid handsomely to do so (USA). Don't tell me that a hospital under financial pressure is not going to fill their pockets given the chance. They already do so with ER diagnostic testing and "observation admissions". I wasn't responding to you mate, I was answering this: There never was a pandemic That doesn't look like someone who's accepted that covid has killed millions. Starkiller could prove me wrong by just making it clear he accepts reality & that covid has killed millions.
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Post by GoBoks on Jun 22, 2021 16:05:48 GMT
So is abstaining from sex with casual partners, but that is a choice that is yours to make not something that some totalitarian government forces on you. Tell me, would you be happy if the government decides to continue lockdown through the winter to prevent flu? No. With a fully vaccinated adult population with vulnerable people being given a booster jab why would they? A Covid "vaccination" does not protect against the flu.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jun 22, 2021 16:11:13 GMT
No. With a fully vaccinated adult population with vulnerable people being given a booster jab why would they? A Covid "vaccination" does not protect against the flu. And we won't or never have go into lockdown because of flu.....
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Post by franklin on Jun 22, 2021 16:27:47 GMT
A Covid "vaccination" does not protect against the flu. And we won't or never have go into lockdown because of flu..... I dunno this year could be the first to save the NHS 🙂
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Post by andystokey on Jun 22, 2021 17:18:05 GMT
I have to scrunch up my eyes and press my ears between a vice when I see the headlines today.
The cases are below last summer
No they are not! you tested no one last summer, you're testing nearly 1m people every day now
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Post by chigstoke on Jun 22, 2021 17:36:48 GMT
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Post by chigstoke on Jun 22, 2021 18:00:04 GMT
How long then folks till it shows up in Blighty?
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Post by riverman on Jun 22, 2021 18:43:45 GMT
Over 100k people did not all die from covid. I get the argument that you can record deaths in different ways: JFK didn't die from being shot, he died from lack of oxygen to the brain etc. How do you estimate the number of covid deaths? Why are you so certain the experts who work on this are doing it wrong? Why did UK deaths go up by 130k total? Why did those extra deaths all happen when there was shitload of covid, but deaths were normal or below when there wasn't shitload of covid? Why did death rates in New Zealand and Australia come in below normal? Seems obvious to me, we can be confident that >130k Brits died because of covid, and it would have been higher if we hadn't slowed the spread down. Take your argument to public health England then. They admitted that nearly 25% of the death rate wasn't covid related. Then there's all the bollocks about " within 28 days" of a positive test. While I'm at it. My mum died in January. Not from covid, she never had it but it was mentioned on her death certificate. Absolute proof of manipulation of the numbers.
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 22, 2021 19:02:39 GMT
I get the argument that you can record deaths in different ways: JFK didn't die from being shot, he died from lack of oxygen to the brain etc. How do you estimate the number of covid deaths? Why are you so certain the experts who work on this are doing it wrong? Why did UK deaths go up by 130k total? Why did those extra deaths all happen when there was shitload of covid, but deaths were normal or below when there wasn't shitload of covid? Why did death rates in New Zealand and Australia come in below normal? Seems obvious to me, we can be confident that >130k Brits died because of covid, and it would have been higher if we hadn't slowed the spread down. Take your argument to public health England then. They admitted that nearly 25% of the death rate wasn't covid related. Then there's all the bollocks about " within 28 days" of a positive test. While I'm at it. My mum died in January. Not from covid, she never had it but it was mentioned on her death certificate. Absolute proof of manipulation of the numbers. How do you estimate the number of covid deaths? Can you tell me exactly how many PHE said there were? I can't find their numbers. There's a big difference between individuals and the overall number. You're going to get some non-covid counted as covid and some covid counted as non-covid, so excess deaths makes sense. I checked myself and got over 100k. You can see the code here that gives 110k excess deaths. Seems sensible to me to say that since anti-covid actions make deaths go down when there isn't much covid (Australia, NZ, Japan, S Korea, Taiwan), that UK covid-caused deaths are at least 110k.
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Post by riverman on Jun 22, 2021 20:02:58 GMT
Take your argument to public health England then. They admitted that nearly 25% of the death rate wasn't covid related. Then there's all the bollocks about " within 28 days" of a positive test. While I'm at it. My mum died in January. Not from covid, she never had it but it was mentioned on her death certificate. Absolute proof of manipulation of the numbers. How do you estimate the number of covid deaths? Can you tell me exactly how many PHE said there were? I can't find their numbers. There's a big difference between individuals and the overall number. You're going to get some non-covid counted as covid and some covid counted as non-covid, so excess deaths makes sense. I checked myself and got over 100k. You can see the code here that gives 110k excess deaths. Seems sensible to me to say that since anti-covid actions make deaths go down when there isn't much covid (Australia, NZ, Japan, S Korea, Taiwan), that UK covid-caused deaths are at least 110k. Don't what the fuck that gobbledegook code is supposed to show, it could be anything. Just the sort of thing that could be used to confuse and convince the general populace.The fact of the matter is numbers have been manipulated. The falsification of my mums death certificate is one of thousands. Has to be. I don't believe for one minute they would be cancelled out by the reverse when they were desperate for numbers to justify restrictions. When they can convince people that positive tests are "cases" they can get away with anything.
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Post by superjw on Jun 22, 2021 20:36:39 GMT
How long then folks till it shows up in Blighty? Do you have to pay extra for the Plus variant? 😂
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Post by bgreen13 on Jun 22, 2021 21:06:57 GMT
Back from a weeks holiday in Norfolk, did anything we wanted, ate out just about every lunch and evening, pubs in the sunshine, watching the footy inside, train to Norwich 1 day, steam train ride, etc etc you wouldn't know there was restrictions anywhere apart from wearing a mask to your seat. I bet you couldn’t enjoy a second of it though with you being stripped of all your civil liberties having to follow such draconian measures...... He holidayed in fricking Norfolk!
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jun 22, 2021 21:07:41 GMT
I bet you couldn’t enjoy a second of it though with you being stripped of all your civil liberties having to follow such draconian measures...... He holidayed in fricking Norfolk! Norfolk is lovely......
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Post by bgreen13 on Jun 22, 2021 21:11:03 GMT
Sooo.
After the positive result the wife has had 7 emails, 4 text messages and 3 phone calls off track and trace.
Glad to know they're spending the money wisely.
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Post by bgreen13 on Jun 22, 2021 21:11:55 GMT
He holidayed in fricking Norfolk! Norfolk is lovely...... I must try it when life gets dull enough, although I haven't been to Skegness yet either.
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Post by chigstoke on Jun 22, 2021 21:12:02 GMT
How long then folks till it shows up in Blighty? Do you have to pay extra for the Plus variant? 😂 It's like buying DLC for Call of Duty
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Post by mrmojorisin on Jun 22, 2021 21:53:23 GMT
Just back from my local. No masks, distancing etc. It was beautiful. Fuck off bed wetters 😍
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Post by GoBoks on Jun 22, 2021 22:24:21 GMT
A Covid "vaccination" does not protect against the flu. And we won't or never have go into lockdown because of flu..... Let's wait and see.
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