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Post by Northy on Jan 15, 2021 9:32:47 GMT
Airline companies and anyone involved in large scale events (gigs, festivals etc) would be very keen on this idea as a means to be allowed to function sooner rather than later. Depends if you feel its the thin edge of the wedge or not with regards privacy/control - once the Covid vulnerable are immune, is this virus a problem? are we expected to all have a vaccine on a yearly basis and if we are, why not the flu one too to minimise winter pressures on the NHS? Or anything else the government decides is a necessity? If people choose not to have the vaccine then they’ve chosen the risk involved I don’t get the argument tbh, if you’ve had the vaccine you’ll be fine and if you’ve chosen not too then that’s your risk It’s a worrying take if it’s used as a weapon I'd assume Holiday Travel Insurance will continue to have a caveat about covid 19 in there
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jan 15, 2021 9:44:19 GMT
Paul, He's constantly posting that he doesn't agree with lockdowns and that they shouldn't be happening, in fact he's been doing it for best part of a year. He's also been saying every other week for the best part of a year that there's going to be riots and anarchy over here. He's happy to let people die as long as he can go on holiday and to the pub etc. And you've been consistently lying for the past 10 months, trying to scare the shit out of other posters and along with this guy above, have done absolutely nothing but try and shut down anyone with an alternative view. You lost credibility years ago with your transfer bollocks, and you've totally lost credibility when it comes to coronavirus. I don't agree with blanket lockdowns and what's your point? Are you going to try and censor me because I disagree? Beyond words. P.s re the riots bit... I've said time and time again there will be civil unrest when the ticking time bomb of furlough ends. It doesn't take much of a historian to know that unemployment leads to civil unrest. Anarchy is another lie of yours because id never use that word.. I think you need to giver to the States to see that. Stop making stuff up and giving people false hope. It is you who have banged on about scaremongering. At no point have I tried to scare anyone. All I - and others - have done is point out that while no-one "wants" a lockdown in the circumstances they have been necessary to save lives. It is the anti-lockdown mob who have characterised those of us who appreciate the need for lockdowns as "wanting" them in the sense of enjoying them or thinking they are a good thing. That is pretty much the biggest "straw man" argument on this entire thread. The only people I have tried to shut down are those who are using this thread to post stuff that amounted to incitement to racial hatred. I have argued long and hard with a good number of people - you included - but I haven't at any point argued that alternative voices (that don't break the law) shouldn't be heard. What I have done is point out that some of those alternative voices are spouting bollocks and will continue to do so even if it means some sensitive soul gets uppity if there arguments are exposed as either baseless, inconsistent or nonsensical. I've been wrong on occasions and have admitted it. On the occasions I've been right I've met with deflection and accusations of closing down debate - which incidentally is a great way of closing down debate. To my knowledge you have never used the term "anarchy". You have banged on about riots and revolution in a way that suggests you think it would be a good thing and on a number of occasions I've asked you where you think that would lead. The obvious answer is it would lead to anarchy but you have never actually admitted that but to fake indignation for someone drawing an obvious conclusion is disingenuous. You don't like the current political system but you haven't a clue as to what an alternative would look like. At least think it through before you bang on about insurrection - after all it's an impeachable offence. Oh and Paul - I know exactly what I'm doing. I'm dissecting arguments and challenging people to look at what they are saying. Some people don't like that and get upset when the holes in their argument are exposed. The rational response is to reconsider, reformulate and on occasion admit to being wrong. The response I get most of the time is fake outrage and accusations of suppressing debate. I'm not suppressing debate - I'm encouraging it and at times that means not agreeing, I don't go out to upset people. The people who get upset don't like having their views criticised and can't cope with losing an argument. So would you like me to shut up and stop the debate?
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Post by Northy on Jan 15, 2021 9:44:52 GMT
Nope, if its lifestyle and not a real medical reason The point he's making is, if we want to protect the NHS, then do we need to do this? Their lifestyle choice (if that's actually what it is) is irrelevant, unless of course, you're going to refuse them a bed in hospital and just let them die of Covid. We've had about 9 months now since we were told that the old, people with underlying conditions and obesity are being hit hardest by CV19, people have had the choice to lose weight and slim down and help themselves to beat it if they catch it, why should people in the NHS put themselves at risk for people who can't be arsed to help themselves ?
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Post by bgreen13 on Jan 15, 2021 9:45:55 GMT
Went in my local newsagent this morning to pick up my copy of the BHW And glanced at the papers and the headline on the mail this morning was the R rate has dropped to 0.6 in most areas Is this why the government no longer bangs on about the R rate anymore For months this was the benchmark and now doesn’t get a mention Yes. They go for the number that will cause the most alarm. Now it's hospital admissions, when they drop it'll be something else.
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Post by musik on Jan 15, 2021 9:52:38 GMT
Q: Do nurses wear protective gloves and a face mask in England when it comes to other kind of vaccines?
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Post by Gary Hackett on Jan 15, 2021 9:58:23 GMT
Paul, He's constantly posting that he doesn't agree with lockdowns and that they shouldn't be happening, in fact he's been doing it for best part of a year. He's also been saying every other week for the best part of a year that there's going to be riots and anarchy over here. He's happy to let people die as long as he can go on holiday and to the pub etc. ... I don't agree with blanket lockdowns and what's your point? That's my point and thanks for confirming.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jan 15, 2021 9:59:51 GMT
Q: Do nurses wear protective gloves and a face mask in England when it comes to other kind of vaccines? They usually wear short PVC uniforms with the nipples cut out 😉
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Post by Gary Hackett on Jan 15, 2021 10:02:13 GMT
The point he's making is, if we want to protect the NHS, then do we need to do this? Their lifestyle choice (if that's actually what it is) is irrelevant, unless of course, you're going to refuse them a bed in hospital and just let them die of Covid. We've had about 9 months now since we were told that the old, people with underlying conditions and obesity are being hit hardest by CV19, people have had the choice to lose weight and slim down and help themselves to beat it if they catch it, why should people in the NHS put themselves at risk for people who can't be arsed to help themselves ? In all fairness mate it's very hard to slim down during lockdown when the highlight of your day is ordering a mixed starter and garlic chili chicken from the curry House washed down with a few cans of craft beer from the Hopwater Cellar.
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Post by henry on Jan 15, 2021 10:02:19 GMT
Went in my local newsagent this morning to pick up my copy of the BHW And glanced at the papers and the headline on the mail this morning was the R rate has dropped to 0.6 in most areas Is this why the government no longer bangs on about the R rate anymore For months this was the benchmark and now doesn’t get a mention Yes. They go for the number that will cause the most alarm. Now it's hospital admissions, when they drop it'll be something else. It would be nice if they followed the admissions number with a discharged number.
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Post by bgreen13 on Jan 15, 2021 10:05:12 GMT
Yes. They go for the number that will cause the most alarm. Now it's hospital admissions, when they drop it'll be something else. It would be nice if they followed the admissions number with a discharged number. Wouldn't look as good on a re tweeted graph that though.
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Post by musik on Jan 15, 2021 10:05:42 GMT
Q: Do nurses wear protective gloves and a face mask in England when it comes to other kind of vaccines? They usually wear short PVC uniforms with the nipples cut out 😉 Aha. 🤪 Over here noone wears a face mask or gloves when vaccinating people. I would be surprised if they did during the Covid vaccinations. March-April for me, I guess.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 15, 2021 10:06:08 GMT
The point he's making is, if we want to protect the NHS, then do we need to do this? Their lifestyle choice (if that's actually what it is) is irrelevant, unless of course, you're going to refuse them a bed in hospital and just let them die of Covid. We've had about 9 months now since we were told that the old, people with underlying conditions and obesity are being hit hardest by CV19, people have had the choice to lose weight and slim down and help themselves to beat it if they catch it, why should people in the NHS put themselves at risk for people who can't be arsed to help themselves ? What has really been done though? You've had Boris mumbling it. Have we had a national campaign to actually promote what it can do and lead a sustained drive to a healthier populous? Have we fuck.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jan 15, 2021 10:09:09 GMT
... I don't agree with blanket lockdowns and what's your point? That's my point and thanks for confirming. Along with millions and millions of British people and many scientists around the world - most of whom have been shut out by the government.
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Post by chad on Jan 15, 2021 10:13:03 GMT
Q: Do nurses wear protective gloves and a face mask in England when it comes to other kind of vaccines? They usually wear short PVC uniforms with the nipples cut out 😉 I’m transferring to your surgery 😊
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Post by Gary Hackett on Jan 15, 2021 10:13:56 GMT
If people choose not to gave the vaccine then they’ve chosen the risk involved I don’t get the argument tbh, if you’ve had the vaccine you’ll be fine and if you’ve chosen not too then that’s your risk It’s a worrying take if it’s used as a weapon It's very worrying if used for our day to day activity. I get the travel element but ONLY when the whole population has been given and/or offered the vaccine. Let's say for example I've got a holiday booked for the summer and travel is permitted. My Mrs has had her vaccine as in NHS but I am nowhere near getting it and likely to be almost last on the list and get it by October if the government can be trusted. If the airlines do what is being reported by then, where do I stand just because I haven't had my chance to be vaccinated because of my age and health? Even though I want the vaccine and even would happily pay private if that ever became available. Will I get my money back? Can I be given other options to travel? Testing etc etc? Doing something like that before the masses have had vaccines is dangerous ground indeed. They can't do it based on if you've had the vaccine, if they're going to do something it'll be that you'll have to prove you've had a test and are negative. LFT tests will be commonplace for flights and festivals, gigs etc by the summer.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 15, 2021 10:25:14 GMT
Oh and Paul - I know exactly what I'm doing. I'm dissecting arguments and challenging people to look at what they are saying. Some people don't like that and get upset when the holes in their argument are exposed. The rational response is to reconsider, reformulate and on occasion admit to being wrong. The response I get most of the time is fake outrage and accusations of suppressing debate. I'm not suppressing debate - I'm encouraging it and at times that means not agreeing, I don't go out to upset people. The people who get upset don't like having their views criticised and can't cope with losing an argument. So would you like me to shut up and stop the debate?You really can't help yourself can you? ... you're doing it again. I didn't suggest you go out of your way to upset people and if I thought you should shut up because you were trying to stop the debate, then I would have accused you of doing that but I didn't. I accused you of using straw man replies to people and you've just done it, again. And as for losing arguments and people admitting they were wrong ... it's not some bloomin' competition. There isn't a set of right and wrong answers sitting in some examiners desk somewhere, where we get to find out what 'wrong' actually was/is. The debate is multi-faceted and hugely nuanced and we won't ultimately get to find out who was 'wrong' for probably another 5 or 10 years and even then, medical academics will probably go on to debate it for the rest of the century and no doubt there will be people who will have got it 'wrong' on both sides of the debate. There are curently over 30 peer reviewed papers which suggest that lockdowns don't have any positive effect on mortality rates, they can of course slow the spread but in terms of bringing down the actual death toll that is yet to be proven. Will ultimately these papers prove to be correct, I have no idea but for absolutely certain, the debate is far from over on who was right or wrong and I think most moderate people wouldn't characterise it in those terms anyway, why would you even want to?
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Post by musik on Jan 15, 2021 10:27:17 GMT
Q: How are the vaccinations in England organized? What happens if a 35 year old with no underlying disease, not in a risk group, tomorrow comes into a health clinic and says he wants to have a vaccine injection immediately?
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Post by Northy on Jan 15, 2021 10:32:34 GMT
Q: How are the vaccinations in England organized? What happens if a 35 year old with no underlying disease, not in a risk group, tomorrow comes into a health clinic and says he wants to have a vaccine injection immediately? He/she doesn't get one. It is being organised I think by your first point contact who has all your details and what risk group you have been put in to.
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Post by stokeuk474 on Jan 15, 2021 10:36:52 GMT
It's very worrying if used for our day to day activity. I get the travel element but ONLY when the whole population has been given and/or offered the vaccine. Let's say for example I've got a holiday booked for the summer and travel is permitted. My Mrs has had her vaccine as in NHS but I am nowhere near getting it and likely to be almost last on the list and get it by October if the government can be trusted. If the airlines do what is being reported by then, where do I stand just because I haven't had my chance to be vaccinated because of my age and health? Even though I want the vaccine and even would happily pay private if that ever became available. Will I get my money back? Can I be given other options to travel? Testing etc etc? Doing something like that before the masses have had vaccines is dangerous ground indeed. They can't do it based on if you've had the vaccine, if they're going to do something it'll be that you'll have to prove you've had a test and are negative. LFT tests will be commonplace for flights and festivals, gigs etc by the summer. Will they? Where have you had this confirmed?
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Post by Gods on Jan 15, 2021 10:37:29 GMT
Q: How are the vaccinations in England organized? What happens if a 35 year old with no underlying disease, not in a risk group, tomorrow comes into a health clinic and says he wants to have a vaccine injection immediately? It's 'don't call us, we'll call you'! Basically you need an appointment.
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Post by Northy on Jan 15, 2021 10:38:36 GMT
We've had about 9 months now since we were told that the old, people with underlying conditions and obesity are being hit hardest by CV19, people have had the choice to lose weight and slim down and help themselves to beat it if they catch it, why should people in the NHS put themselves at risk for people who can't be arsed to help themselves ? What has really been done though? You've had Boris mumbling it. Have we had a national campaign to actually promote what it can do and lead a sustained drive to a healthier populous? Have we fuck. Should we need a national campaign to tell you you are a fat fucker and being fat isn't good for your health, when it's been in the news and in papers and how much it costs the NHS etc. for many many years. Surely it's common sense and self responsibility ?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 15, 2021 10:45:03 GMT
What has really been done though? You've had Boris mumbling it. Have we had a national campaign to actually promote what it can do and lead a sustained drive to a healthier populous? Have we fuck. Should we need a national campaign to tell you you are a fat fucker and being fat isn't good for your health, when it's been in the news and in papers and how much it costs the NHS etc. for many many years. Surely it's common sense and self responsibility ? Yes clearly! It would save the NHS so much money but there's never been a concerted effort around it. And it should start around government policy for sports in education and sustainable transport.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 15, 2021 10:48:18 GMT
The point he's making is, if we want to protect the NHS, then do we need to do this? Their lifestyle choice (if that's actually what it is) is irrelevant, unless of course, you're going to refuse them a bed in hospital and just let them die of Covid. We've had about 9 months now since we were told that the old, people with underlying conditions and obesity are being hit hardest by CV19, people have had the choice to lose weight and slim down and help themselves to beat it if they catch it, why should people in the NHS put themselves at risk for people who can't be arsed to help themselves ? I think you're missing the point mate. There's two discussions to be had here, an ethical one (the one you're making) and a practical one. That being, that the ethical one, right now is irrelevant if we are attempting to protect the NHS. Many people are suggesting that lockdowns are ethically wrong but the counter argument is that they must happen in order to stop our health services from becoming overwhelmed, so surely if we are going to take every measure possible to prevent this from happening, then equally we need to vaccinate obese people as quickly as possible because if we don't do then they're right up there with people who are most likely to end up filling our hospital beds if they catch Covid.
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Post by Veritas on Jan 15, 2021 10:50:51 GMT
Should we need a national campaign to tell you you are a fat fucker and being fat isn't good for your health, when it's been in the news and in papers and how much it costs the NHS etc. for many many years. Surely it's common sense and self responsibility ? Yes clearly! It would save the NHS so much money but there's never been a concerted effort around it. And it should start around government policy for sports in education and sustainable transport. The misguided obsession with elite sport and funding based on winning Olympic golds rather than mass participation and particularly school sports and exercise. The promised London 2012 legacy that never materialised.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jan 15, 2021 11:15:04 GMT
What has really been done though? You've had Boris mumbling it. Have we had a national campaign to actually promote what it can do and lead a sustained drive to a healthier populous? Have we fuck. Should we need a national campaign to tell you you are a fat fucker and being fat isn't good for your health, when it's been in the news and in papers and how much it costs the NHS etc. for many many years. Surely it's common sense and self responsibility ? Using the same logic should we put pictures of cancerous lungs on fag packets, or warn people that excess drinking/gambling is bad for you in advertising campaigns. It's all just common sense surely?
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Post by Northy on Jan 15, 2021 11:25:54 GMT
Should we need a national campaign to tell you you are a fat fucker and being fat isn't good for your health, when it's been in the news and in papers and how much it costs the NHS etc. for many many years. Surely it's common sense and self responsibility ? Using the same logic should we put pictures of cancerous lungs on fag packets, or warn people that excess drinking/gambling is bad for you in advertising campaigns. It's all just common sense surely? Yep, let's waste more tax payers money on the lack of common sense, or tax the fook out of fast food to pay it back ?
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jan 15, 2021 11:28:21 GMT
Using the same logic should we put pictures of cancerous lungs on fag packets, or warn people that excess drinking/gambling is bad for you in advertising campaigns. It's all just common sense surely? Yep, let's waste more tax payers money on the lack of common sense, or tax the fook out of fast food to pay it back ? This government loves wasting tax payers money, one more project won't hurt. At least the cost of this one won't go to Tory lobbyists.......
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Post by wagsastokie on Jan 15, 2021 11:33:40 GMT
The point he's making is, if we want to protect the NHS, then do we need to do this? Their lifestyle choice (if that's actually what it is) is irrelevant, unless of course, you're going to refuse them a bed in hospital and just let them die of Covid. We've had about 9 months now since we were told that the old, people with underlying conditions and obesity are being hit hardest by CV19, people have had the choice to lose weight and slim down and help themselves to beat it if they catch it, why should people in the NHS put themselves at risk for people who can't be arsed to help themselves ? Could we use the term some people I could go on a diet and have a bmi of a elite athlete And my lungs would still sound like darth Vader with a heavy cold
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 15, 2021 11:46:26 GMT
Using the same logic should we put pictures of cancerous lungs on fag packets, or warn people that excess drinking/gambling is bad for you in advertising campaigns. It's all just common sense surely? Yep, let's waste more tax payers money on the lack of common sense, or tax the fook out of fast food to pay it back ? It's not wasting money is it? Indeed I'd love to know how much money those adverts have saved the country!
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Post by salopstick on Jan 15, 2021 11:49:22 GMT
So the coronavirus has mutated like things do. But was never a story
Hancock brings it up in parliment to justify locking down London. The next thing the world quarantines uk. the lie is now bout the box and every new strain becomes a major story
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