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Post by GrahamHyde on Dec 20, 2020 3:09:32 GMT
You'd hope the government have said to the police that under no circumstance are they to arrest anyone leaving London. I would have said I imagine the widespread civil unrest to start in another 6 to 12 months when the economic hardship kicks in but this could really fast track it if the police play it badly. Let's hope for everyone's sake the police use common sense. You’re touching on a bigger point here. Do the public at large believe what they are being told? Because if they did, the London exodus would not happen as folk would be too concerned about the possibility of infecting vulnerable older loved ones - generally, it seems that exodus is of adult children (and their children) returning to their elderly parents (and grandparents) to stay in the same house as them for a protracted period. Back in March when this kicked off, there was both near enough universal compliance in action as well as thought. Folk accepted and respected the rules. I recall at the time Johnson saying he was concerned about how long that compliant behaviour would last. He was thinking in terms of weeks though not months. So, a mass ignoring of rules suggests something that consensus has broken. Good post. I agree, I think the longer this goes on the less compliant people have become, especially when you consider the time of year (not just being Xmas but also the darker evenings that really do have an effect on mood). I also think a lot more is known now about the actual risks involved, and people feel like they are happy to take that risk. |
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Post by GrahamHyde on Dec 20, 2020 3:14:51 GMT
On another note my Grandad went for his vaccine today and my Mum told me that there were queues of people outside the vaccination centre, because of the need to maintain social distancing coupled with the backlog.
So basically you had a stream of 80+ year olds standing and queuing up in the cold, pissing down rain outside for about half an hour.
Yes, because that's not going to make them ill is it...
Then again, if it's not Covid then who cares?
If you'd have looked at that sort of scene last year you'd have been questioning some sort of awful malpractice.
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Post by Timmypotter on Dec 20, 2020 5:37:02 GMT
On another note my Grandad went for his vaccine today and my Mum told me that there were queues of people outside the vaccination centre, because of the need to maintain social distancing coupled with the backlog. So basically you had a stream of 80+ year olds standing and queuing up in the cold, pissing down rain outside for about half an hour. Yes, because that's not going to make them ill is it... Then again, if it's not Covid then who cares? If you'd have looked at that sort of scene last year you'd have been questioning some sort of awful malpractice. It's just another example in a long list of unintended consequences that are inescapable when decisions are being made quickly and with little scrutiny. Here's another potential one Wouldn't that just be the darkest pure black irony. |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Dec 20, 2020 7:03:19 GMT
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Post by jeycov on Dec 20, 2020 7:54:51 GMT
Excellent suggestion just mentioned in morning tv
The government should announce 2 extra bank holidays in the summer
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Post by partickpotter on Dec 20, 2020 8:20:20 GMT
The same politics from the SNP, Labour and DUP/SF in the administrations they run in the UK. I was going to say this goes beyond party politics, but then I remember Sturgeons daily “look at England, how much worse they are than Scotland” show (14 mentions in her short pitch this evening). I guess though that could be termed nationalist politics. "Characteristic dithering" has created a new shambles. Most reports seem to have got that right. If you're going to play politics with which areas go into Tier 3 and ignore the southeast despite having higher numbers, then surprise surprise that might come back to bite you on the arse. Given how frequently Bluffer lies, I wouldn't be at all surprised if this "new strain" was a convenient smokescreen to deflect away from exactly what they have done. Replying to this on the Coronavirus thread. You are focussing on the actions of Johnson and, because you don’t like him, single him out for criticism (for which there is much due - except singularity). The reality is that all the leaders of the UK nations are equally as bad (or good) when it comes to actions they are taking albeit their delivery is very different. Yesterday being a case in point as one after the other fell over each other to introduce draconian measures to cancel Xmas clearly hoping for safety in numbers as well, at least in Scotland, to indulge a little showboating (the whole of Mainland Scotland put into level 4 lockdown - as a “preemptive measure” meaning the data does not support the action meaning it is political, someth8 g we saw up here before when Edinburgh was kept in level 2 despite the data saying it should be level 2 and arguably level 1). I’d assess the opposition parties across the nations in a similar negative way. Mainly because none of the opposition parties have done their job which is to hold the respective Government to account. Particularly in one massively important regard - providing the evidence that supports the actions taken. It seemed, for a short while, that Starmer was heading down that road when he asked the Westminster Gvt to provide the scientific evidence to support early closure of pubs at 10 (remember that brief moment). He, sadly, abandoned that approach deciding to just go down the road of opposing action - which is understandable in normal circumstances but not now when then there was something much more useful he could be doing. Why is this important? Because people are losing trust in their Governments. You may not see this in the various polls - but it is evidenced in people’s actions like the stampede for trains at Paddington and Euston yesterday and the need, in Scotland, to put travel restrictions into law (which is a good indication folk no longer respect Gvt advice or recommendations). We need more evidence and justification from all our Governments and much more effective pressure from opposition challenging evidence and actions. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Dec 20, 2020 8:33:13 GMT
I'm glad I'm not living down there anymore. It can be a lonely place as a youngster even at the best of times. Christmas in a one windowed Bermondsey bedsit would have me thinking some pretty dark thoughts after a few shandies. There will be an armada of parents getting ready to drive down to pick up their kids this week. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Declaration was proclaimed by the United Nations General Assembly in Paris on 10 December 1948 Article 13. (1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state. (2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country. Not any more. I thought there was a vote very much opposing freedom of movement.... |
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Post by oggyoggy on Dec 20, 2020 8:36:44 GMT
It's going to be fascinating to see how tomorrow plays out. Are they seriously going to try and arrest people who are leaving London to see their families for Christmas? I love law and order but any self respecting police officer surely can't carry out such an abhorrent order. It goes without saying, it would set one of the most disturbing precedents in modern British history. If the police are going to genuinely attempt to stop people with valid tickets from boarding trains at Euston station tomorrow, then theres every chance that we won't be far away from the beginning of widespread (as you've been predicting) civil disobedience. Surely the government will back up their policy by stopping all trains going outside any tier 4 area. Otherwise they are asking for people to disregard the new lockdown |
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Post by stiggerstackle on Dec 20, 2020 8:51:36 GMT
"Characteristic dithering" has created a new shambles. Most reports seem to have got that right. If you're going to play politics with which areas go into Tier 3 and ignore the southeast despite having higher numbers, then surprise surprise that might come back to bite you on the arse. Given how frequently Bluffer lies, I wouldn't be at all surprised if this "new strain" was a convenient smokescreen to deflect away from exactly what they have done. Replying to this on the Coronavirus thread. You are focussing on the actions of Johnson and, because you don’t like him, single him out for criticism (for which there is much due - except singularity). The reality is that all the leaders of the UK nations are equally as bad (or good) when it comes to actions they are taking albeit their delivery is very different. Yesterday being a case in point as one after the other fell over each other to introduce draconian measures to cancel Xmas clearly hoping for safety in numbers as well, at least in Scotland, to indulge a little showboating (the whole of Mainland Scotland put into level 4 lockdown - as a “preemptive measure” meaning the data does not support the action meaning it is political, someth8 g we saw up here before when Edinburgh was kept in level 2 despite the data saying it should be level 2 and arguably level 1). I’d assess the opposition parties across the nations in a similar negative way. Mainly because none of the opposition parties have done their job which is to hold the respective Government to account. Particularly in one massively important regard - providing the evidence that supports the actions taken. It seemed, for a short while, that Starmer was heading down that road when he asked the Westminster Gvt to provide the scientific evidence to support early closure of pubs at 10 (remember that brief moment). He, sadly, abandoned that approach deciding to just go down the road of opposing action - which is understandable in normal circumstances but not now when then there was something much more useful he could be doing. Why is this important? Because people are losing trust in their Governments. You may not see this in the various polls - but it is evidenced in people’s actions like the stampede for trains at Paddington and Euston yesterday and the need, in Scotland, to put travel restrictions into law (which is a good indication folk no longer respect Gvt advice or recommendations). We need more evidence and justification from all our Governments and much more effective pressure from opposition challenging evidence and actions. Absolutely this. There is zero respect or trust for government, I know nobody supportive of them and their version of the truth. I know people who ultimately agree with the current decisions being taken, but they have no faith that those decisions have been taken for the reasons presented. The further problem however, is that such a fundamental lack of trust will carry over a number of parliaments unless something radical happens, as there is no meaningful opposition, no holding to account. Does Starmer really think we will vote for him en masse just because he isn’t BoJo? If that’s the case, it’s a pretty sad indictment of the state of British politics. |
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Post by Timmypotter on Dec 20, 2020 9:05:06 GMT
Replying to this on the Coronavirus thread. You are focussing on the actions of Johnson and, because you don’t like him, single him out for criticism (for which there is much due - except singularity). The reality is that all the leaders of the UK nations are equally as bad (or good) when it comes to actions they are taking albeit their delivery is very different. Yesterday being a case in point as one after the other fell over each other to introduce draconian measures to cancel Xmas clearly hoping for safety in numbers as well, at least in Scotland, to indulge a little showboating (the whole of Mainland Scotland put into level 4 lockdown - as a “preemptive measure” meaning the data does not support the action meaning it is political, someth8 g we saw up here before when Edinburgh was kept in level 2 despite the data saying it should be level 2 and arguably level 1). I’d assess the opposition parties across the nations in a similar negative way. Mainly because none of the opposition parties have done their job which is to hold the respective Government to account. Particularly in one massively important regard - providing the evidence that supports the actions taken. It seemed, for a short while, that Starmer was heading down that road when he asked the Westminster Gvt to provide the scientific evidence to support early closure of pubs at 10 (remember that brief moment). He, sadly, abandoned that approach deciding to just go down the road of opposing action - which is understandable in normal circumstances but not now when then there was something much more useful he could be doing. Why is this important? Because people are losing trust in their Governments. You may not see this in the various polls - but it is evidenced in people’s actions like the stampede for trains at Paddington and Euston yesterday and the need, in Scotland, to put travel restrictions into law (which is a good indication folk no longer respect Gvt advice or recommendations). We need more evidence and justification from all our Governments and much more effective pressure from opposition challenging evidence and actions. Absolutely this. There is zero respect or trust for government, I know nobody supportive of them and their version of the truth. I know people who ultimately agree with the current decisions being taken, but they have no faith that those decisions have been taken for the reasons presented. The further problem however, is that such a fundamental lack of trust will carry over a number of parliaments unless something radical happens, as there is no meaningful opposition, no holding to account. Does Starmer really think we will vote for him en masse just because he isn’t BoJo? If that’s the case, it’s a pretty sad indictment of the state of British politics. I drew a big cock and balls on my ballot paper last time. Based on this government and parliament's performance so far, the only difference next time round is likely to be that I add a little bit of jizz coming out the end. |
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Post by stiggerstackle on Dec 20, 2020 9:07:33 GMT
Absolutely this. There is zero respect or trust for government, I know nobody supportive of them and their version of the truth. I know people who ultimately agree with the current decisions being taken, but they have no faith that those decisions have been taken for the reasons presented. The further problem however, is that such a fundamental lack of trust will carry over a number of parliaments unless something radical happens, as there is no meaningful opposition, no holding to account. Does Starmer really think we will vote for him en masse just because he isn’t BoJo? If that’s the case, it’s a pretty sad indictment of the state of British politics. I drew a big cock and balls on my ballot paper last time. Based on this government and parliament's performance so far, the only difference next time round is likely to be that I add a little bit of jizz coming out the end. The fact that you’re able to jizz about the situation says more about you Timmy... 😆 |
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Post by ravey123 on Dec 20, 2020 9:08:57 GMT
Can I ask another question which was completely ignored today but might be significant? Shame journalist don't ask useful questions. Has anyone said if you can catch one variant and then also catch the other or does your previous antibody or T cell response make this unlikely? Because regardless of the vaccine most of the unvaccinated waiting their turn will have a whole new ball game to deal with. @estrangedsonoffaye The journo's at the conference are a bloody disgrace. Every single question they ask starts with a quote or statement then leads into a question to try to trip the presenters up or to try to get them to say they were wrong/didn't do enough/did too much or are making a U turn. They never actually ask any questions that might gain more useful information. The questions from the public are more realistic and sometimes gain useful information. The media in this whole COVID pandemic have been an embarrassment - seems like they only have 2 agenda's 1 - frighten the shit out of the public 2 - persistently mock/criticise the government and belittle their efforts - I think the media are a massive part of the problem/confusion with lack of guidance following There is no perfect way of dealing with this pandemic. I think the Tories (who I have never voted for) are doing about as well as possible in this impossible situation. I dread to think what it would be like if the splinter arsed Starmer was overlooking this - we would be absolutely stuffed |
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Post by franklin on Dec 20, 2020 9:16:10 GMT
It's going to be fascinating to see how tomorrow plays out. Are they seriously going to try and arrest people who are leaving London to see their families for Christmas? I love law and order but any self respecting police officer surely can't carry out such an abhorrent order. It goes without saying, it would set one of the most disturbing precedents in modern British history. I'd certainly like to see how the police react if it happens. It won't be pretty either way. |
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Post by andystokey on Dec 20, 2020 9:17:35 GMT
If the police are going to genuinely attempt to stop people with valid tickets from boarding trains at Euston station tomorrow, then theres every chance that we won't be far away from the beginning of widespread (as you've been predicting) civil disobedience. Surely the government will back up their policy by stopping all trains going outside any tier 4 area. Otherwise they are asking for people to disregard the new lockdown Business is exempt, including abroad. I'm more interested in the thousands of lorry drivers going through Kent and Dover to Calais queued up for the next few weeks. If the disruption wasn't going to be bad enough before. |
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Post by ravey123 on Dec 20, 2020 9:18:40 GMT
On another note my Grandad went for his vaccine today and my Mum told me that there were queues of people outside the vaccination centre, because of the need to maintain social distancing coupled with the backlog. So basically you had a stream of 80+ year olds standing and queuing up in the cold, pissing down rain outside for about half an hour. Yes, because that's not going to make them ill is it... Then again, if it's not Covid then who cares? If you'd have looked at that sort of scene last year you'd have been questioning some sort of awful malpractice. Were the queues because people were turning up too early though - how can you blame the organisation for that. They can't exactly let people queue up INSIDE the centre. Perhaps they should tell people to turn up 5 minutes before their appointment (or wait in their cars until just before their appointment (if the carpark is close by) - they my already do this - I don't know what it says on their invite though. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2020 9:24:58 GMT
Can I ask another question which was completely ignored today but might be significant? Shame journalist don't ask useful questions. Has anyone said if you can catch one variant and then also catch the other or does your previous antibody or T cell response make this unlikely? Because regardless of the vaccine most of the unvaccinated waiting their turn will have a whole new ball game to deal with. @estrangedsonoffaye When your body makes antibodies against an infection, it typically does it against lots of different parts of the virus (or bacteria). So relatively small changes to the virus are unlikely to mean your immune system won't attack it. the different vaccines that are being developed may be better or worse at preparing there immune system against the mutating virus. Some of the vaccines such as the Pfizer one produce an immune response against specific parts of the virus which is they mutate in this area may mean they can evade the immune system. Traditional vaccines produce an immune response against more parts of the virus do can be better at targeting mutated virus |
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Post by oggyoggy on Dec 20, 2020 9:28:07 GMT
Surely the government will back up their policy by stopping all trains going outside any tier 4 area. Otherwise they are asking for people to disregard the new lockdown Business is exempt, including abroad. I'm more interested in the thousands of lorry drivers going through Kent and Dover to Calais queued up for the next few weeks. If the disruption wasn't going to be bad enough before. I doubt there are many legitimate business trips on the sunday before Christmas though. Have one train for the handful who are travelling for business then. Or have rules that cover business trips. I agree with your point about the lorry drivers. I really would not want to be in that queue. I expect the French will start asking for negative covid tests before letting then in to prevent the spread of the new strain into France. Good job those queues aren’t about to get many times worse! |
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Post by dutchstokie on Dec 20, 2020 9:34:13 GMT
The very notion that some shit haired drunk scarecrow is going to tell me what to do what at Christmas  What a fucking bell end. You’d prefer a smooth operator giving the same message. I’m sure you’d love life under Nicola Sturgeon because of her greater sartorial elegance. But then again, with Keir Starmer as the next Labour PM you should be happy with him. But no, you preferred Jeremy “Worzel Gummidge” Corbyn. Seems your concerns over appearance are not consistent. Go easy on him..... his g-string is beginning to chaife against his fanny He doesn’t realize it would have been exactly the same fuck up whichever party was in charge...... ( but let him have his say anyway, it keeps him happy) 😁 |
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Post by wagsastokie on Dec 20, 2020 9:34:42 GMT
If the police are going to genuinely attempt to stop people with valid tickets from boarding trains at Euston station tomorrow, then theres every chance that we won't be far away from the beginning of widespread (as you've been predicting) civil disobedience. You'd hope the government have said to the police that under no circumstance are they to arrest anyone leaving London. I would have said I imagine the widespread civil unrest to start in another 6 to 12 months when the economic hardship kicks in but this could really fast track it if the police play it badly. Let's hope for everyone's sake the police use common sense. Police won’t need to use common sense not that there blessed with a lot All people have to say is we’re off to pull down a statue of some evil oppressor somewhere and the local plod will probably offer them a free lift |
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Post by Davef on Dec 20, 2020 9:43:10 GMT
This "new strain" was detected on September 20th.
We're having our pants pulled down.
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Post by yeswilko on Dec 20, 2020 9:47:15 GMT
Can I ask another question which was completely ignored today but might be significant? Shame journalist don't ask useful questions. Has anyone said if you can catch one variant and then also catch the other or does your previous antibody or T cell response make this unlikely? Because regardless of the vaccine most of the unvaccinated waiting their turn will have a whole new ball game to deal with. @estrangedsonoffaye The journo's at the conference are a bloody disgrace. Every single question they ask starts with a quote or statement then leads into a question to try to trip the presenters up or to try to get them to say they were wrong/didn't do enough/did too much or are making a U turn. They never actually ask any questions that might gain more useful information. The questions from the public are more realistic and sometimes gain useful information. The media in this whole COVID pandemic have been an embarrassment - seems like they only have 2 agenda's 1 - frighten the shit out of the public 2 - persistently mock/criticise the government and belittle their efforts - I think the media are a massive part of the problem/confusion with lack of guidance following There is no perfect way of dealing with this pandemic. I think the Tories (who I have never voted for) are doing about as well as possible in this impossible situation. I dread to think what it would be like if the splinter arsed Starmer was overlooking this - we would be absolutely stuffed Hahaha yeah right pal |
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Post by andystokey on Dec 20, 2020 9:48:09 GMT
The Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Declaration was proclaimed by the United Nations General Assembly in Paris on 10 December 1948 Article 13. (1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state. (2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country. Not any more. I thought there was a vote very much opposing freedom of movement.... Did we? I must have missed the day we voted to leave the UN. The Coronavirus Act 2020 is sovereignty enacted. |
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Post by andystokey on Dec 20, 2020 9:52:05 GMT
Can I ask another question which was completely ignored today but might be significant? Shame journalist don't ask useful questions. Has anyone said if you can catch one variant and then also catch the other or does your previous antibody or T cell response make this unlikely? Because regardless of the vaccine most of the unvaccinated waiting their turn will have a whole new ball game to deal with. @estrangedsonoffaye When your body makes antibodies against an infection, it typically does it against lots of different parts of the virus (or bacteria). So relatively small changes to the virus are unlikely to mean your immune system won't attack it. the different vaccines that are being developed may be better or worse at preparing there immune system against the mutating virus. Some of the vaccines such as the Pfizer one produce an immune response against specific parts of the virus which is they mutate in this area may mean they can evade the immune system. Traditional vaccines produce an immune response against more parts of the virus do can be better at targeting mutated virus I understand the immune system but with respect unless you are a virologist. My question stands, can I shed viral load if I’m exposed to a series of variants over and over and become infectious and have symptoms. Any credible data??. |
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Post by andystokey on Dec 20, 2020 9:55:40 GMT
Business is exempt, including abroad. I'm more interested in the thousands of lorry drivers going through Kent and Dover to Calais queued up for the next few weeks. If the disruption wasn't going to be bad enough before. I doubt there are many legitimate business trips on the sunday before Christmas though. Have one train for the handful who are travelling for business then. Or have rules that cover business trips. I agree with your point about the lorry drivers. I really would not want to be in that queue. I expect the French will start asking for negative covid tests before letting then in to prevent the spread of the new strain into France. Good job those queues aren’t about to get many times worse! Are you saying no one should travel home today if they don’t live in London ? |
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Post by werrington on Dec 20, 2020 10:03:26 GMT
I doubt there are many legitimate business trips on the sunday before Christmas though. Have one train for the handful who are travelling for business then. Or have rules that cover business trips. I agree with your point about the lorry drivers. I really would not want to be in that queue. I expect the French will start asking for negative covid tests before letting then in to prevent the spread of the new strain into France. Good job those queues aren’t about to get many times worse! Are you saying no one should travel home today if they don’t live in London ? It’s unbelievable that people are thinking like that isn’t it Divide and conquer is alive and well |
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Post by thisisouryear on Dec 20, 2020 10:03:29 GMT
This "new strain" was detected on September 20th. We're having our pants pulled down. Is it the one that came from the Mink in Denmark then? I see Hancock is playing dumb |
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Dec 20, 2020 10:06:28 GMT
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Post by Davef on Dec 20, 2020 10:06:43 GMT
This "new strain" was detected on September 20th. We're having our pants pulled down. Is it the one that came from the Mink in Denmark then? I see Hancock is playing dumb I don't know about, but here's Matt Hancock lying. Again. |
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Post by GrahamHyde on Dec 20, 2020 10:06:52 GMT
On another note my Grandad went for his vaccine today and my Mum told me that there were queues of people outside the vaccination centre, because of the need to maintain social distancing coupled with the backlog. So basically you had a stream of 80+ year olds standing and queuing up in the cold, pissing down rain outside for about half an hour. Yes, because that's not going to make them ill is it... Then again, if it's not Covid then who cares? If you'd have looked at that sort of scene last year you'd have been questioning some sort of awful malpractice. Were the queues because people were turning up too early though - how can you blame the organisation for that. They can't exactly let people queue up INSIDE the centre. Perhaps they should tell people to turn up 5 minutes before their appointment (or wait in their cars until just before their appointment (if the carpark is close by) - they my already do this - I don't know what it says on their invite though. I think they were vaccinating people in blocks 20 minutes apart but because it's an elderly population and they've got a lot to get through, there was a backlog. I'm not specifically criticising the healthcare staff who do an exemplary job and are absolute heroes. It's more the shift in ideology that elevates Covid above everything else to the point that it becomes utterly illogical and counter productive. |
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Post by thisisouryear on Dec 20, 2020 10:10:09 GMT
Is it the one that came from the Mink in Denmark then? I see Hancock is playing dumb I don't know about, but here's Matt Hancock lying. Again. He's a cunt, I don't like to use the word but it was designed for cunts like him. |
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