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Post by Northy on Dec 1, 2020 14:20:56 GMT
Gove really is a waste of oxygen isn't he? As far as I can make out, politicians can just say whatever they like at the moment, without any substance or truth to it. There doesn't appear to be any repercussions for just spouting any old shit, to justify implementing yet more draconian measures. Even the scientists are getting involved, throwing wildly inaccurate graphs at the public, to scare them into accepting yet more needless lockdowns. Its all a crock of shit. Is it too much to ask to have a government which presents factual data to the people they represent? What we are seeing now isn't even "spin". Its gone beyond manipulating data or cherry picking snippets which suit their agenda. Its moved on to just blatant lies now, which have absolutely no truth to them whatsoever. And they are using these fabrications to justify and implement measures which are destroying the lives of millions. And yet there appear to be no ramifications? Staffs Moorlands are about to go into tier 3 tomorrow, despite their numbers dramatically dropping over recent days/weeks. Its now 197 cases per 100,000. It was around 400 per 100,000 a couple of weeks ago. Yet we go straight out of lockdown and into tier 3. Its all a load of bollocks. Probably used the wrong terminology but it was flying up though Attachment DeletedBJ said in the HoC earlier that they want to start to look at more granular levels at the next review |
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 1, 2020 14:22:40 GMT
Hope starmers got some tcp to treat those splinters Labour were never going to vote against this because they agree with the government on the restrictions. They abstained in protest at the lack of funding for the poorest areas in support of their constituents. It wasn't the most critical decision in our lifetime and Labour knew exactly what they were doing in abstaining - which was allowing the vote to pass. The point of the opposition is to hold the government to account - not to vote against the government for the hell of it. However I agree there is the need for a party that represents the sizable minority in this issue. Roll on PR. All hail big Nige and the boys āŗļø |
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Post by Davef on Dec 1, 2020 14:38:23 GMT
Latest from Sweden 117 new deaths yesterday. An Increase. Sweden don't have enough nurses who can give the vaccine injections. Sweden have predicted a twice as long vaccination period than the rest of Europe. Partly due to the promised delivery dates from the manufacturers. (Press conference) Worldometer reports three deaths yesterday. According to them, deaths in the hundreds have happened just three times in Sweden, all back during the spring epidemic. I see that Anders Tegnell has been sidelined by the Swedish government. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Dec 1, 2020 15:29:31 GMT
Gove really is a waste of oxygen isn't he? I can't work out whether he, Hancock and others simply think they can get away with saying whatever they like and they don't give a shit, or they're coming out with this rubbish because that's the information they've been given and they actually believe that it is true, I really hope it's the former and not the latter. "They (the rate) were doubling on average in every 15 days in the 6 weeks up to the announcement of the November measures on the 31st October". No they absolutely were not Michael, the rate had been REDUCING steadily for the five weeks prior ... 34%, 25%, 14%, 5% and 3% in the week up to the 4th of November. And the only reason there had been a massive increase six weeks prior to that, was because that was the specific week they dumped in thousands of historical cases that they had uncovered. |
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Post by duckling on Dec 1, 2020 15:38:38 GMT
Latest from Sweden 117 new deaths yesterday. An Increase. Sweden don't have enough nurses who can give the vaccine injections. Sweden have predicted a twice as long vaccination period than the rest of Europe. Partly due to the promised delivery dates from the manufacturers. (Press conference) Worldometer reports three deaths yesterday. According to them, deaths in the hundreds have happened just three times in Sweden, all back during the spring epidemic. I see that Anders Tegnell has been sidelined by the Swedish government. 117 deaths since Friday. They don't update daily over the weekend. www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-sweden-cases-idUSL8N2IH3LY |
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Post by Olgrligm on Dec 1, 2020 15:43:43 GMT
The pro lockdown woke middle class elites working from home posting their tik tok videos and drinking their soy lattes won't be the ones who suffer. As with all these things the poor get poorer.... We know how it goes. I'm fascinated by how you can be 'middle class' and 'elite'. Surely a contradiction in terms? I wonder where the boundary of eliteness is.  |
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Dec 1, 2020 16:07:59 GMT
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Post by musik on Dec 1, 2020 16:43:05 GMT
Latest from Sweden 117 new deaths yesterday. An Increase. Sweden don't have enough nurses who can give the vaccine injections. Sweden have predicted a twice as long vaccination period than the rest of Europe. Partly due to the promised delivery dates from the manufacturers. (Press conference) Worldometer reports three deaths yesterday. According to them, deaths in the hundreds have happened just three times in Sweden, all back during the spring epidemic. I see that Anders Tegnell has been sidelined by the Swedish government. Ok. Their reports aren't always consistent. More than half of Sweden's total ICU capacity is now used. With the peak not yet reached, it increases. Edith: I just saw Duckling's post. Thanks! I thought the "weekend reports" were given on Mondays! Pretty sure they have been. Isn't it Tuesday today? š¤ |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Dec 1, 2020 16:48:17 GMT
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Dec 1, 2020 16:52:25 GMT
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 1, 2020 16:54:24 GMT
The pro lockdown woke middle class elites working from home posting their tik tok videos and drinking their soy lattes won't be the ones who suffer. As with all these things the poor get poorer.... We know how it goes. I'm fascinated by how you can be 'middle class' and 'elite'. Surely a contradiction in terms? I wonder where the boundary of eliteness is. Not a contradiction in terms at all. The era of wokedom has been totally driven by middle class elites, combined of course with the lamestream media and your woke celebs (who admittedly aren't middle class). You do realise the entirety of Parliament statistically falls into the "middle class" salary bracket? The middle class are absolutely the elite in pretty much every sense of the word. I'm white, middle class and a corporate cunt (and a cunt). I'm literally surrounded by the woke elite! š±š±š± Jokes aside wtf is that all about? It's bizarre how the new Liberal (but not so Liberal) left (but not really left) is now the chosen stance of big corporates and big pharma. The irony is just too painful. It's like Ben and Jerry's, I just want to eat your ice cream, I don't want to hear your millionaire CEO telling us all that we need "educating". Get fucked. |
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Dec 1, 2020 16:56:56 GMT
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Post by Gods on Dec 1, 2020 16:57:28 GMT
We're going to be north of 60,000 deaths on Thursday, it was as recently as the 11th of November that we passed the 50,000 mark. A sobering reminder that even under wave 2 the virus has the capacity to kill on a significant scale (Yes I know it's mostly older folks or people with asthma, diabetes, high blood pressure etc. so it doesn't matter that much but still) |
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Post by musik on Dec 1, 2020 16:59:25 GMT
We can debate whether to continue lockdown as cases surge. But the real folly was not containing the virus early. Japan has a population of 126 million. It is the oldest population in the world. It is a very densely populated country. How many Covid deaths have there been? Around 2000. With no lockdown. How did they do it? As soon as the first cases hit, they required masks (already popular), mandatory testing, and strictly enforced quarantine for people who tested positive or were exposed. Taiwan took a similar approach. 23 million people, densely populated, 7 deaths. No lockdown. The early measures taken by Japan and Taiwan would have caused a "you're violating our freedoms!" outcry in North America and Europe. But by giving up those minor freedoms, people in Japan and Taiwan have been enjoying all the major freedoms as the rest of the world is stuck inside debating on social media. This. |
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Post by musik on Dec 1, 2020 17:08:28 GMT
Sweden Latest
FHM says small children should stay at home if someone in the household has got Corona.
Anders Tegnell says children will normally not have symptoms themselves, so they therefore can't transmit it to others.
They do this for the teachers, to ease the burden, for those who think they can get Corona.
As always, he hasn't seen any international report he's wrong ...
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Post by prestwichpotter on Dec 1, 2020 17:12:20 GMT
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Post by musik on Dec 1, 2020 17:14:51 GMT
And yesterday it was pointed out care homes in Sweden that hasn't allowed visits during the worst 1st wave Corona peak have committed a crime, since the law doesn't talk about Corona exactly and in detail. To be continued ... |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Dec 1, 2020 17:40:19 GMT
I'm fascinated by how you can be 'middle class' and 'elite'. Surely a contradiction in terms? I wonder where the boundary of eliteness is. Not a contradiction in terms at all. The era of wokedom has been totally driven by middle class elites, combined of course with the lamestream media and your woke celebs (who admittedly aren't middle class). You do realise the entirety of Parliament statistically falls into the "middle class" salary bracket? The middle class are absolutely the elite. You are just making stuff up. By definition an 'elite' is a small group of people at the very top of society - the middle class is a very large group of people in the middle. It's why they are called the "middle" class. According to this en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_British_Class_Survey the elite us made up of about 6% of the population and have a salary north of 89k (as of 2011). The traditional middle class make up 25% of the population, have an average salary of 47k. It is the elite who occupy the very top jobs and most influence in how the country is run - not the middle class. This survey also points out that the traditional working class now only make up 14% of the population and it identifies the technical middle class (6%), new affluent workers (15%) and service sector (19%). It also identifies the precariat - 15% of the population living on the edge, the genuine poor. As well as having a complete lack of understanding as to how society is stratified you are completely wrong in assuming each group has a monolithic set of social attitudes defined by their social class. I know plenty of middle class people who share your anti-woke/Neanderthal social attitudes (and there's plenty of examples of the elite with attitudes that stink - including utter contempt for anyone outside the elite) and I know working class/new affluent/service sector/precariat people with very progressive social attitudes. You seem to think you somehow represent the working class but I'll put money on you not even belonging to the working class in the sense it is now used. You may well represent a group of people with regressive social attitudes and you might well find in denigrating the middle class you are marginalising some of your own natural supporters |
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Post by ColonelMustard on Dec 1, 2020 17:56:14 GMT
Not a contradiction in terms at all. The era of wokedom has been totally driven by middle class elites, combined of course with the lamestream media and your woke celebs (who admittedly aren't middle class). You do realise the entirety of Parliament statistically falls into the "middle class" salary bracket? The middle class are absolutely the elite. You are just making stuff up. By definition an 'elite' is a small group of people at the very top of society - the middle class is a very large group of people in the middle. It's why they are called the "middle" class. According to this en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_British_Class_Survey the elite us made up of about 6% of the population and have a salary north of 89k (as of 2011). The traditional middle class make up 25% of the population, have an average salary of 47k. It is the elite who occupy the very top jobs and most influence in how the country is run - not the middle class. This survey also points out that the traditional working class now only make up 14% of the population and it identifies the technical middle class (6%), new affluent workers (15%) and service sector (19%). It also identifies the precariat - 15% of the population living on the edge, the genuine poor. As well as having a complete lack of understanding as to how society is stratified you are completely wrong in assuming each group has a monolithic set of social attitudes defined by their social class. I know plenty of middle class people who share your anti-woke/Neanderthal social attitudes (and there's plenty of examples of the elite with attitudes that stink - including utter contempt for anyone outside the elite) and I know working class/new affluent/service sector/precariat people with very progressive social attitudes. You seem to think you somehow represent the working class but I'll put money on you not even belonging to the working class in the sense it is now used. You may well represent a group of people with regressive social attitudes and you might well find in denigrating the middle class you are marginalising some of your own natural supporters Elite is now something to do with crushed avocado I think. |
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 1, 2020 18:00:07 GMT
You are just making stuff up. By definition an 'elite' is a small group of people at the very top of society - the middle class is a very large group of people in the middle. It's why they are called the "middle" class. According to this en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_British_Class_Survey the elite us made up of about 6% of the population and have a salary north of 89k (as of 2011). The traditional middle class make up 25% of the population, have an average salary of 47k. It is the elite who occupy the very top jobs and most influence in how the country is run - not the middle class. This survey also points out that the traditional working class now only make up 14% of the population and it identifies the technical middle class (6%), new affluent workers (15%) and service sector (19%). It also identifies the precariat - 15% of the population living on the edge, the genuine poor. As well as having a complete lack of understanding as to how society is stratified you are completely wrong in assuming each group has a monolithic set of social attitudes defined by their social class. I know plenty of middle class people who share your anti-woke/Neanderthal social attitudes (and there's plenty of examples of the elite with attitudes that stink - including utter contempt for anyone outside the elite) and I know working class/new affluent/service sector/precariat people with very progressive social attitudes. You seem to think you somehow represent the working class but I'll put money on you not even belonging to the working class in the sense it is now used. You may well represent a group of people with regressive social attitudes and you might well find in denigrating the middle class you are marginalising some of your own natural supporters Elite is now something to do with crushed avocado I think. And soy lattes! Don't forget the soy lattes! |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Dec 1, 2020 18:11:46 GMT
You are just making stuff up. By definition an 'elite' is a small group of people at the very top of society - the middle class is a very large group of people in the middle. It's why they are called the "middle" class. According to this en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_British_Class_Survey the elite us made up of about 6% of the population and have a salary north of 89k (as of 2011). The traditional middle class make up 25% of the population, have an average salary of 47k. It is the elite who occupy the very top jobs and most influence in how the country is run - not the middle class. This survey also points out that the traditional working class now only make up 14% of the population and it identifies the technical middle class (6%), new affluent workers (15%) and service sector (19%). It also identifies the precariat - 15% of the population living on the edge, the genuine poor. As well as having a complete lack of understanding as to how society is stratified you are completely wrong in assuming each group has a monolithic set of social attitudes defined by their social class. I know plenty of middle class people who share your anti-woke/Neanderthal social attitudes (and there's plenty of examples of the elite with attitudes that stink - including utter contempt for anyone outside the elite) and I know working class/new affluent/service sector/precariat people with very progressive social attitudes. You seem to think you somehow represent the working class but I'll put money on you not even belonging to the working class in the sense it is now used. You may well represent a group of people with regressive social attitudes and you might well find in denigrating the middle class you are marginalising some of your own natural supporters Elite is now something to do with crushed avocado I think. Surely someone sufficiently woke would think twice about crushing an avocado? They have feelings you know |
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Post by wagsastokie on Dec 1, 2020 18:22:45 GMT
You are just making stuff up. By definition an 'elite' is a small group of people at the very top of society - the middle class is a very large group of people in the middle. It's why they are called the "middle" class. According to this en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_British_Class_Survey the elite us made up of about 6% of the population and have a salary north of 89k (as of 2011). The traditional middle class make up 25% of the population, have an average salary of 47k. It is the elite who occupy the very top jobs and most influence in how the country is run - not the middle class. This survey also points out that the traditional working class now only make up 14% of the population and it identifies the technical middle class (6%), new affluent workers (15%) and service sector (19%). It also identifies the precariat - 15% of the population living on the edge, the genuine poor. As well as having a complete lack of understanding as to how society is stratified you are completely wrong in assuming each group has a monolithic set of social attitudes defined by their social class. I know plenty of middle class people who share your anti-woke/Neanderthal social attitudes (and there's plenty of examples of the elite with attitudes that stink - including utter contempt for anyone outside the elite) and I know working class/new affluent/service sector/precariat people with very progressive social attitudes. You seem to think you somehow represent the working class but I'll put money on you not even belonging to the working class in the sense it is now used. You may well represent a group of people with regressive social attitudes and you might well find in denigrating the middle class you are marginalising some of your own natural supporters Elite is now something to do with crushed avocado I think. As far as Iām concerned anyone who would contemplate eating avocado never mind crushing it is part of elite Avocado the new quiche |
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 1, 2020 18:24:31 GMT
Not a contradiction in terms at all. The era of wokedom has been totally driven by middle class elites, combined of course with the lamestream media and your woke celebs (who admittedly aren't middle class). You do realise the entirety of Parliament statistically falls into the "middle class" salary bracket? The middle class are absolutely the elite. You are just making stuff up. By definition an 'elite' is a small group of people at the very top of society - the middle class is a very large group of people in the middle. It's why they are called the "middle" class. According to this en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_British_Class_Survey the elite us made up of about 6% of the population and have a salary north of 89k (as of 2011). The traditional middle class make up 25% of the population, have an average salary of 47k. It is the elite who occupy the very top jobs and most influence in how the country is run - not the middle class. This survey also points out that the traditional working class now only make up 14% of the population and it identifies the technical middle class (6%), new affluent workers (15%) and service sector (19%). It also identifies the precariat - 15% of the population living on the edge, the genuine poor. As well as having a complete lack of understanding as to how society is stratified you are completely wrong in assuming each group has a monolithic set of social attitudes defined by their social class. I know plenty of middle class people who share your anti-woke/Neanderthal social attitudes (and there's plenty of examples of the elite with attitudes that stink - including utter contempt for anyone outside the elite) and I know working class/new affluent/service sector/precariat people with very progressive social attitudes. You seem to think you somehow represent the working class but I'll put money on you not even belonging to the working class in the sense it is now used. You may well represent a group of people with regressive social attitudes and you might well find in denigrating the middle class you are marginalising some of your own natural supporters Without going over every line of this shit (your Wikipedia references aren't great for your already woeful credibility ratings with the oatcake faithful š) and giving us as you always do, dumb advice on how us "neanderlithic" peasants should live, I'm keen to ask you something. Are you saying you don't see the government as elites? You seem confused over the definition of elite. Modern elitism is about power, attitude, education and influence and not solely someone's salary. By default, elites tend to earn well but extreme wealth is not the sole definition - sometimes it is but not always. You must have heard of the expression "Islington Elite"? That's not because they all earn over 500k a year. Im also in agreement that the woke elite is a minority. I've been telling you that for months!! I think we are seeing some amazing changes in our social make up which in part, Brexit contributed to. Just look at the pro lockdown vs anti lockdown sentiment. Right and left and rich and poor are intertwined like never before and its great to see. Who would have thought middle England and the North East had so much in common. Meanwhile big corporates, big pharma, lamestream media and almost the entirety of the celeb world have made a sizeable shift to the new Liberal (but not so Liberal) left. Its fascinating and bizarre times. P.s I absolutely don't profess to stand for the working class but thanks again for that compliment. |
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Post by Cast no shadow on Dec 1, 2020 18:33:30 GMT
No staffs lads & dads till next year
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Post by andystokey on Dec 1, 2020 18:38:23 GMT
This woke word is getting right on my tits.
When you can be bothered to understand where it came from this new version which is meant as a sleight hides a multitude of sins.
I wish people would just say what they mean. If it's a dig at anyone interested in issues concerning social justice and racial justice then count me in.
When it's used these days as a detrimental term it can mask some pretty ugly thoughts. My personal view is just say what you mean and don't hide behind the foggy definition, otherwise I'll probably assume it's peddling some pretty unsavoury trope.
It feels like the same shite people peddled with the word "chav" a few years ago, some self righteous holier than though bollocks.
I'm sure I'm not the only one, just speak English instead of some culturally appropriated slang that most people aren't part of. š¤®
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Post by chad on Dec 1, 2020 18:43:29 GMT
This woke word is getting right on my tits. When you can be bothered to understand where it came from this new version which is meant as a sleight hides a multitude of sins. I wish people would just say what they mean. If it's a dig at anyone interested in issues concerning social justice and racial justice then count me in. When it's used these days as a detrimental term it can mask some pretty ugly thoughts. My personal view is just say what you mean and don't hide behind the foggy definition, otherwise I'll probably assume it's peddling some pretty unsavoury trope. It feels like the same shite people peddled with the word "chav" a few years ago, some self righteous holier than though bollocks. I'm sure I'm not the only one, just speak English instead of some culturally appropriated slang that most people aren't part of. š¤® As far as Iām concerned woke is what I did at about 7.30 this morning |
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Post by smallthorner on Dec 1, 2020 18:44:13 GMT
Worldometer reports three deaths yesterday. According to them, deaths in the hundreds have happened just three times in Sweden, all back during the spring epidemic. I see that Anders Tegnell has been sidelined by the Swedish government. Ok. Their reports aren't always consistent. More than half of Sweden's total ICU capacity is now used. With the peak not yet reached, it increases. Edith: I just saw Duckling's post. Thanks! I thought the "weekend reports" were given on Mondays! Pretty sure they have been. Isn't it Tuesday today? š¤ Who's "Edith" ? New poster?? š |
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Post by danceswithclams on Dec 1, 2020 18:54:53 GMT
This woke word is getting right on my tits. When you can be bothered to understand where it came from this new version which is meant as a sleight hides a multitude of sins. I wish people would just say what they mean. If it's a dig at anyone interested in issues concerning social justice and racial justice then count me in. When it's used these days as a detrimental term it can mask some pretty ugly thoughts. My personal view is just say what you mean and don't hide behind the foggy definition, otherwise I'll probably assume it's peddling some pretty unsavoury trope. It feels like the same shite people peddled with the word "chav" a few years ago, some self righteous holier than though bollocks. I'm sure I'm not the only one, just speak English instead of some culturally appropriated slang that most people aren't part of. š¤® It's also heard quite a lot when people from Stoke are doing The Proclaimers on the karaoke. |
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Post by carruthers1on1 on Dec 1, 2020 18:56:18 GMT
This woke word is getting right on my tits. When you can be bothered to understand where it came from this new version which is meant as a sleight hides a multitude of sins. I wish people would just say what they mean. If it's a dig at anyone interested in issues concerning social justice and racial justice then count me in. When it's used these days as a detrimental term it can mask some pretty ugly thoughts. My personal view is just say what you mean and don't hide behind the foggy definition, otherwise I'll probably assume it's peddling some pretty unsavoury trope. It feels like the same shite people peddled with the word "chav" a few years ago, some self righteous holier than though bollocks. I'm sure I'm not the only one, just speak English instead of some culturally appropriated slang that most people aren't part of. š¤® As far as Iām concerned woke is what I did at about 7.30 this morning 7.30?! Were you on noons? š |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Dec 1, 2020 19:00:16 GMT
In part I see as this a generational problem and the newness of the technology - we are all behaving like children with a toy nobody really understands. I think the answer lies in education and given the web is such an important resource and isn't going away I can see the skills involved in critically assessing information and understanding agendas becoming a key part of the school curriculum. As a generation we've missed that boat - hopefully the generation who have grown up with this new toy will understand it better. The thing that worries me most is the lack of respect for genuine expertise and the belief that at the end of the day everything is an opinion. There are people on this thread who genuinely believe that some random post from a bloke with an irrelevant degree flogging a diet book has as valid an opinion on epidemiology as someone who has spent their professional life studying epidemiology and is recognised as such within that academic community. There has been an erosion of trust in arbitrary authority associated with the class system - which is great and is nowhere near complete (only in the UK could two of the last three Prime Ministers been at the same school and an upper middle class public school educated stock broker be considered a man of the people) but that has spilled over into a lack of trust in people and institutions who actually know what they are talking about. Unfortunately a post on a QAnon website is considered by some as valid as a scholarly article in Nature. I'm all for political democracy (which hasn't happened) but at the moment rather than address that pressing need the internet appears to have focused on democratising access to bullshit without even offering a scratch and sniff option. Do you mean like Carl Heneghan, Tom Jefferson, Sinatra Gupta et. al. ? Heneghan, Jefferson and Gupta have credibility as scientists but they are not conducting a credible academic debate about the actual science on the internet - they are using the internet to promote an alternative political response to the situation. They are speaking on decisions outside their area of expertise. It's perfectly valid for them to point out that there is a legitimate debate about the science but that does not mean they can tell the government what to do. Again it goes back to how you use information gleaned from the internet. People aren't choosing to believe Heneghan, Jefferson or Gupta because they've analysed the science - they are choosing to believe them because they prefer what they are saying about the decisions governments should make. And that goes beyond their actual expertise. To be fair these 3 aren't charlatans - but I do have reservations about their motives and why they are using social media the way they are using it - do they really expect a scientific debate to be resolved by likes on Twitter? However some posters have provided links to some blatantly obvious snake oil salesmen - including a bloke who gets his information from an hypnotherapist and a failed eye doctor with a hedge fund with interests in quinine. What I'm saying is that people need to refine their skills in understanding the value of the information available on the internet and check for vested interests and motivation. The only people I can see having a problem with that are those who would rather their audience believe rather than think. |
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