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Post by musik on Nov 30, 2020 21:37:00 GMT
Lots of countries require certain vaccines in order to visit today. What countries, so I know what to avoid. 🤠 |
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Nov 30, 2020 21:38:11 GMT
What is it that scares you so much about taking an injection and providing proof of it so that we can get back to something like normal? I'm not even going to bother, if you think this is acceptable good for you. The craziness surrounding this virus is completely surreal. Well you seem upset about it so I want to try and alleviate your fears. Almost like free therapy. So RedandWhite90 goes to the doctors, gets his vaccination and in return I get a little brave soldier card saying I've been vaccinated. I buy a ticket to go and finally watch the football and before entering the steward says, 'have you got your vaccine card?' I says 'yes here it is' and in I go. Now personally it doesn't really fill me with dread, but it's clearly a concern so tell us why, please. |
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Post by chad on Nov 30, 2020 21:46:01 GMT
I'm not even going to bother, if you think this is acceptable good for you. The craziness surrounding this virus is completely surreal. Well you seem upset about it so I want to try and alleviate your fears. Almost like free therapy. So RedandWhite90 goes to the doctors, gets his vaccination and in return I get a little brave soldier card saying I've been vaccinated. I buy a ticket to go and finally watch the football and before entering the steward says, 'have you got your vaccine card?' I says 'yes here it is' and in I go. Now personally it doesn't really fill me with dread, but it's clearly a concern so tell us why, please. No no no. It can’t possibly be that simple 😊 |
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Post by MilanStokie on Nov 30, 2020 21:56:18 GMT
Would it help if they give you a sticker or a stamp after having the injection? You're going to get a health, or 'freedom' pass. Likely on your phone, for now. And, as I've said before, once people accept a pass for simply doing normal everyday stuff, it's the end of human freedom forever. It's a control pass. Potential for more stuff to be added, including, eventually, your social credit score. This, apparently, all for a virus with nearly 100% survival. Yeah... course it is... More decimals added, People will start rising from the dead soon. |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Nov 30, 2020 21:58:03 GMT
That simply isn't true. No age group is anywhere near herd immunity and anyway age related herd immunity isn't a thing if generations mix - which they will because any form of age apartheid would be impossible to implement. The original tier 2 restrictions didn't bring transmissions under control - tier 3 and the recent national restrictions did. The government have tightened up the rules for the new tier 2 because this is the evidence was that the original tier 2 was just a conveyor belt into tier 3.Every country in the world that has implemented a a sufficiently stringent lock down have seen infections and deaths fall and when restrictions have loosened infections and deaths have gone up in subject to the underlying seasonal variation. There are certainly other problems associated with lock downs but to argue they don't work is nonsense - providing the rules are strict enough. In many principal cities in the country their cases were already significantly reducing before they even got into tier 2. London saw no significant rise before entering or after entering tier 2. You are absolutely right however, to point out the importance of the seasonality of the virus and yes restrictions will accelerate the natural rise and (most importantly) the decline of the virus but I've yet to see the data that demonstrates by how much it accelerates the decline and any analysis that compares that acceleration against the economic affect placed upon the country as a result of the restrictions.       There are exceptions but on the whole areas in tier 2 only slowed the spread and those in tier turned it around - as did the recent national lockdown. I live in Leicester and have kept an eye on the situation in Stoke as well. While in tier 2 the cases continued to rise - if is only since the national lock down that the numbers have started to decreasing having peaked in the 400s per 100,000. Leicester is a case in point regarding the futility of half arsed lockdowns. We've been subject to restrictions sine the first lockdown and until the original tiers emerged were under the direct control of Hancock. When we got dumped into tier 2 our restrictions actually eased even though the numbers were going up and once in tier 2 the increase accelerated. An half arsed lock down has many of the disadvantages of a a tighter lockdown with non of the advantages in terms of controlling the pandemic. If you're going to lockdown at least do it properly. The government have analysed the impact of the original tier system and come to the same conclusion - hence the tightening of restrictions. Assuming you are not into conspiracy theories why would the government make such a monumentally unpopular decision and potentially knacker the economy further? I genuinely can't think of one good reason. As much as I despise this government the only logical explanation I can find is they genuinely want to save lives and are prepared to put their own popularity on the line to do the right thing. The economic issue is important but is a separate matter to the effectiveness of lock down as a preventative measure. You might argue that the government shouldn't lockdown tightly because of the economic effects but you're in danger of bending the figures on efficacy to justify the political decision you would prefer to be made. |
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Post by spitthedog on Nov 30, 2020 22:00:49 GMT
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Post by adri2008 on Nov 30, 2020 22:04:43 GMT
The timing of this wave suggests that children/students going back were the trigger (and that the virus is predominantly seasonal) and its this link which has spread the disease through out households. Whilst this link is open, you could argue that the lock downs did/do bugger all/little to suppress the virus and it simply ran through the young until enough immunity was there for transmission to fall. Meanwhile the hospitality sector has been hung out to dry like some sort of sacrificial lamb. That simply isn't true. No age group is anywhere near herd immunity and anyway age related herd immunity isn't a thing if generations mix - which they will because any form of age apartheid would be impossible to implement. The original tier 2 restrictions didn't bring transmissions under control - tier 3 and the recent national restrictions did. The government have tightened up the rules for the new tier 2 because this is the evidence was that the original tier 2 was just a conveyor belt into tier 3. Every country in the world that has implemented a a sufficiently stringent lock down have seen infections and deaths fall and when restrictions have loosened infections and deaths have gone up in subject to the underlying seasonal variation. There are certainly other problems associated with lock downs but to argue they don't work is nonsense - providing the rules are strict enough. There's still no definitive information on what level is sufficient to provide 'herd immunity' for this particular disease - it's still largely speculation as is nearly everything to do with the disease and its spread. I'm not suggesting that a proper lock down isn't effective (China style) but that our half arsed attempt in the last month may have done little to halt its spread. There are lots of graphs out there showing a fall in cases well before lock downs were implemented which suggests something else was preventing exponential acceleration of cases. In this case, it seems likely or at least feasible that the virus ran rampant through student populations at the start of autumn before running out of 'easy' targets to infect. Not herd immunity but enough immunity to naturally slow the virus's spread within the demographic which was driving the wave (mainly the young at least initially). |
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Post by chigstoke on Nov 30, 2020 22:06:10 GMT
Pubs were never going to support such lunacy. |
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Post by musik on Nov 30, 2020 22:07:49 GMT
Sweden won't adapt Nadhim Zahanwi's model concerning vaccination.
I thought you were joking ...
🤣
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 30, 2020 22:08:10 GMT
In many principal cities in the country their cases were already significantly reducing before they even got into tier 2. London saw no significant rise before entering or after entering tier 2. You are absolutely right however, to point out the importance of the seasonality of the virus and yes restrictions will accelerate the natural rise and (most importantly) the decline of the virus but I've yet to see the data that demonstrates by how much it accelerates the decline and any analysis that compares that acceleration against the economic affect placed upon the country as a result of the restrictions. There are exceptions but on the whole areas in tier 2 only slowed the spread and those in tier turned it around - as did the recent national lockdown. I live in Leicester and have kept an eye on the situation in Stoke as well. While in tier 2 the cases continued to rise - if is only since the national lock down that the numbers have started to decreasing having peaked in the 400s per 100,000. Leicester is a case in point regarding the futility of half arsed lockdowns. We've been subject to restrictions sine the first lockdown and until the original tiers emerged were under the direct control of Hancock. When we got dumped into tier 2 our restrictions actually eased even though the numbers were going up and once in tier 2 the increase accelerated. An half arsed lock down has many of the disadvantages of a a tighter lockdown with non of the advantages in terms of controlling the pandemic. If you're going to lockdown at least do it properly. The government have analysed the impact of the original tier system and come to the same conclusion - hence the tightening of restrictions. Assuming you are not into conspiracy theories why would the government make such a monumentally unpopular decision and potentially knacker the economy further? I genuinely can't think of one good reason. As much as I despise this government the only logical explanation I can find is they genuinely want to save lives and are prepared to put their own popularity on the line to do the right thing. The economic issue is important but is a separate matter to the effectiveness of lock down as a preventative measure. You might argue that the government shouldn't lockdown tightly because of the economic effects but you're in danger of bending the figures on efficacy to justify the political decision you would prefer to be made. We're talking about the majority of major cities in the country. Misguided or inadequate advice? But they are intrinsically linked and of course cannot be separated in any meaningful discussion about how to proceed. Bending the figures? I'm asking to see them. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 30, 2020 22:16:51 GMT
I'm not even going to bother, if you think this is acceptable good for you. The craziness surrounding this virus is completely surreal. Well you seem upset about it so I want to try and alleviate your fears. Almost like free therapy. So RedandWhite90 goes to the doctors, gets his vaccination and in return I get a little brave soldier card saying I've been vaccinated. I buy a ticket to go and finally watch the football and before entering the steward says, 'have you got your vaccine card?' I says 'yes here it is' and in I go. Now personally it doesn't really fill me with dread, but it's clearly a concern so tell us why, please. I guess it depends whether you think that vaccinations in this country should be mandatory. The moment you say that you're fine with a system that only allows people to do certain things in this country if they have been vaccinated, then you're forcing those people who don't want to, into a form of exile unless they do. I want people to be convinced it's the right thing to do, not force them to do it because they know they'll be excluded from elements of society if they don't. What are you saying, that unless parents agree for their children to have the MRR vaccine, then those children should be excluded from school? |
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Nov 30, 2020 22:31:22 GMT
Well you seem upset about it so I want to try and alleviate your fears. Almost like free therapy. So RedandWhite90 goes to the doctors, gets his vaccination and in return I get a little brave soldier card saying I've been vaccinated. I buy a ticket to go and finally watch the football and before entering the steward says, 'have you got your vaccine card?' I says 'yes here it is' and in I go. Now personally it doesn't really fill me with dread, but it's clearly a concern so tell us why, please. I guess it depends whether you think that vaccinations in this country should be mandatory. The moment you say that you're fine with a system that only allows people to do certain things in this country if they have been vaccinated, then you're forcing those people who don't want to, into a form of exile unless they do. I want people to convinced it's the right thing to do, not force them to do it because they know they'll be excluded from elements of society if they don't. What are you saying, that unless parents agree for their children to have the MRR vaccine, then those children should be excluded from school? Great points these Paul and I think up until about 8 months ago I would be typing this verbatim. I still agree with overwhelming majority of this in full. But I don't know how much longer we can allow this nonsense that is festering away on social media, but also in the mainstream to carry on unchecked. There is nobody in my close family/friends that I am aware of from an MMR that has not been vaccinated, however of there was then I wouldn't have knowingly taken my daughter around them prior to vaccination. There is such a huge number of people following this nonsense now and the false equivalence I'm quite in favour of it. I care more about people living ajd living normal lives than I do upsetting nutters. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 30, 2020 22:39:30 GMT
I guess it depends whether you think that vaccinations in this country should be mandatory. The moment you say that you're fine with a system that only allows people to do certain things in this country if they have been vaccinated, then you're forcing those people who don't want to, into a form of exile unless they do. I want people to convinced it's the right thing to do, not force them to do it because they know they'll be excluded from elements of society if they don't. What are you saying, that unless parents agree for their children to have the MRR vaccine, then those children should be excluded from school? Great points these Paul and I think up until about 8 months ago I would be typing this verbatim. I still agree with overwhelming majority of this in full. But I don't know how much longer we can allow this nonsense that is festering away on social media, but also in the mainstream to carry on unchecked. There is nobody in my close family/friends that I am aware of from an MMR that has not been vaccinated, however of there was then I wouldn't have knowingly taken my daughter around them prior to vaccination. There is such a huge number of people following this nonsense now and the false equivalence I'm quite in favour of it. I care more about people living ajd living normal lives than I do upsetting nutters. We can't throw the baby out with the bath water though mate. For me it's not about 'upsetting nutters', it's about protecting our values as a society. Uptake of the vaccine should be encouraged though discourse, education and encouragement, not by way of threats. Nadhim Zahawi has been in the job less than 48 hours and right off the bat he's decided that the way to go, is to see people who don't want to have (or are even just unsure about) the vaccine as bad people and to suggest that they need to be treated as bad people and I think that's very, very sad. |
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Post by greenhoff on Nov 30, 2020 22:52:15 GMT
Great points these Paul and I think up until about 8 months ago I would be typing this verbatim. I still agree with overwhelming majority of this in full. But I don't know how much longer we can allow this nonsense that is festering away on social media, but also in the mainstream to carry on unchecked. There is nobody in my close family/friends that I am aware of from an MMR that has not been vaccinated, however of there was then I wouldn't have knowingly taken my daughter around them prior to vaccination. There is such a huge number of people following this nonsense now and the false equivalence I'm quite in favour of it. I care more about people living ajd living normal lives than I do upsetting nutters. We can't throw the baby out with the bath water though mate. For me it's not about 'upsetting nutters', it's about protecting our values as a society. Uptake of the vaccine should be encouraged though discourse, education and encouragement, not by way of threats. Nadhim Zahawi has been in the job less than 48 hours and right off the bat he's decided that the way to go, is to see people who don't want to have (or are even just unsure about) the vaccine as bad people and to suggest that they need to be treated as bad people and I think that's very, very sad. I couldn't agree more Paul. I'm very pro vaccination. My three children have had absolutely everything available. I have seen first hand the damage things like measles and meningitis have done to kids and adults. However I have serious reservations about the up and coming vaccines. IMO the time scale of testing is just not long enough. However under the current Twitter, Facebook courts that makes me an anti vaxxer. Vaccination should never be mandatory also it should never be made mandatory by using the strings attached approach advocated by many. We are embarking on a very slippery slope at the moment. I'm very worried about the direction of travel of this country and the willingness of many of the population to take us in that direction. |
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Post by adri2008 on Nov 30, 2020 23:10:59 GMT
We can't throw the baby out with the bath water though mate. For me it's not about 'upsetting nutters', it's about protecting our values as a society. Uptake of the vaccine should be encouraged though discourse, education and encouragement, not by way of threats. Nadhim Zahawi has been in the job less than 48 hours and right off the bat he's decided that the way to go, is to see people who don't want to have (or are even just unsure about) the vaccine as bad people and to suggest that they need to be treated as bad people and I think that's very, very sad. I couldn't agree more Paul. I'm very pro vaccination. My three children have had absolutely everything available. I have seen first hand the damage things like measles and meningitis have done to kids and adults. However I have serious reservations about the up and coming vaccines. IMO the time scale of testing is just not long enough. However under the current Twitter, Facebook courts that makes me an anti vaxxer. Vaccination should never be mandatory also it should never be made mandatory by using the strings attached approach advocated by many. We are embarking on a very slippery slope at the moment. I'm very worried about the direction of travel of this country and the willingness of many of the population to take us in that direction. I've no problem at all with vaccines that have been proved effective over many years. I am however far more cautious about these Covid ones simply because I'm assuming the usual long timescale rules are in place for a reason (if they aren't necessary, why the hell aren't we rolling out cancer drugs etc far quicker). The fact that the pharmaceutical companies involved have insisted on not being liable if any long term problems occur hardly fills you with confidence either. Is the drug safe or isn't it? - sounds very much like a 'probably/maybe' to me. |
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Nov 30, 2020 23:19:14 GMT
Great points these Paul and I think up until about 8 months ago I would be typing this verbatim. I still agree with overwhelming majority of this in full. But I don't know how much longer we can allow this nonsense that is festering away on social media, but also in the mainstream to carry on unchecked. There is nobody in my close family/friends that I am aware of from an MMR that has not been vaccinated, however of there was then I wouldn't have knowingly taken my daughter around them prior to vaccination. There is such a huge number of people following this nonsense now and the false equivalence I'm quite in favour of it. I care more about people living ajd living normal lives than I do upsetting nutters. We can't throw the baby out with the bath water though mate. For me it's not about 'upsetting nutters', it's about protecting our values as a society. Uptake of the vaccine should be encouraged though discourse, education and encouragement, not by way of threats. Nadhim Zahawi has been in the job less than 48 hours and right off the bat he's decided that the way to go, is to see people who don't want to have (or are even just unsure about) the vaccine as bad people and to suggest that they need to be treated as bad people and I think that's very, very sad. It's about keeping people alive. It isn't toys out of the bath water, this is widespread, being fuelled for dark room lurkers to celebrities and is one of the saddest things to become prevalent through the pandemic. I'm no fan of Nadhim but for me, he's got this right and I would continue to push it. We have vaccine, it needs to be used. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 30, 2020 23:30:55 GMT
We can't throw the baby out with the bath water though mate. For me it's not about 'upsetting nutters', it's about protecting our values as a society. Uptake of the vaccine should be encouraged though discourse, education and encouragement, not by way of threats. Nadhim Zahawi has been in the job less than 48 hours and right off the bat he's decided that the way to go, is to see people who don't want to have (or are even just unsure about) the vaccine as bad people and to suggest that they need to be treated as bad people and I think that's very, very sad. It's about keeping people alive. It isn't toys out of the bath water, this is widespread, being fuelled for dark room lurkers to celebrities and is one of the saddest things to become prevalent through the pandemic. I'm no fan of Nadhim but for me, he's got this right and I would continue to push it. We have vaccine, it needs to be used.So what do we do with the kids whose parents don't want them to have the MMR vaccine? No school until they have it, or do we get the state to take them away and force the needle into them? |
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 30, 2020 23:34:15 GMT
It seems strange to me that some people get very upset with our Westminster MPs' decisions, MPs we have voted in and can vote out, like the Stoke and Newcastle MPs, but are quite prepared to have Brussels make all the decisions in years to come. You do know that we voted them in and out as well right? If you are referring to MEPs, of course, yes. But the MEPs have no power, they only vote on legislation drafted by the European Commission, so they can delay the march towards a single state by delaying legislation, such as a European army, but they cannot reverse the policy. They are a disparate bunch of politicians where no particular point of view holds sway and they are unable to propose any legislation. The Commission also runs rings round the individual nations civil servants and the European Council is effectively "bossed" by Germany. Irony of irony, it is the European parliament, through proportional representation, gave the Brexit Party its platform and credibility as a threat to the other major UK parties; and it was in order to silence that threat that Cameron held a referendum. So at least the European Parliament has served one useful purpose. Our UK government has been pretty poor managing the pandemic with 859 deaths per million population, but I fail to see that any other British political party or an EU "government" would have done anything significantly different. Germany, as always, have been the best organized with 201 deaths pm. Italy (920 deaths per million population) and Spain (964 d/m) have been basket cases like ourselves, and the Belgians (1,425 d/m) the usual laughing stock of the French (807 d/m). Of course there is no common European system of measuring, but then if there had been half the nations would have ignored the directive as usual! |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 30, 2020 23:40:03 GMT
The inconsistency is staggering ...
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Dec 1, 2020 0:21:08 GMT
The inconsistency is staggering ... It's an absolute shitshow Paul. |
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Post by duckling on Dec 1, 2020 0:35:20 GMT
So what do we do with the kids whose parents don't want them to have the MMR vaccine? No school until they have it, or do we get the state to take them away and force the needle into them? In most of the United States, kids need the MMR vaccine to attend school unless they have a medical or religious exemption. If you don't want to vaccinate, you have to home school. It is also required in nine European countries including France and Italy. Ontario, Canada and New South Wales, Australia require them too to go to school. |
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Post by musik on Dec 1, 2020 0:50:39 GMT
... I wonder how the poor 40 year old bastard's immune system looks like in my new thread "A loathsome beldam kept her son locked up"?
😱
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Post by Paul Spencer on Dec 1, 2020 1:02:26 GMT
So what do we do with the kids whose parents don't want them to have the MMR vaccine? No school until they have it, or do we get the state to take them away and force the needle into them? In most of the United States, kids need the MMR vaccine to attend school unless they have a medical or religious exemption. If you don't want to vaccinate, you have to home school. It is also required in nine European countries including France and Italy. Ontario, Canada and New South Wales, Australia require them too to go to school. This doc's letter sums it up pretty much for me ... |
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Dec 1, 2020 1:43:28 GMT
I’ve said before I’m not an advocate of mandatory vaccination for various reasons. That said, the debate has become and is becoming even more totally asymmetrical.
Papers worth of published evidence from responses taken from thousands of people are refuted by a single post on social media that then gets circulated far more than the published evidence. The Wakefield fiasco, which was far more sophisticated than that example is still having effects to this day on measles outbreaks. But with the nature of social media these days that level of sophistication isn’t needed. It’s difficult to see a resolution to it that works and doesn’t stray into something like authoritarianism on one side and ulterior motives/misinformation on the other, and I’m not just talking about Covid here.
There is a major disconnect emerging between science and public engagement, a good example is public perception of how much your average postdoctoral research scientists get paid or are just one homogenous group all working on Covid. A guy on this thread for example accused me in April of sitting in an ivory tower as my job was made “more secure” by the pandemic. Despite the fact my funders are dropping millions from their research portfolio which will affect thousands of my peers as well as myself. Conversely, you will see legitimate concerns laughed at or lumped into a “loony” category which alienates people further and entrenches both sides of the divide.
It’s a very concerning situation, and to be honest I can only see it getting worse.
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Post by musik on Dec 1, 2020 2:44:29 GMT
In most of the United States, kids need the MMR vaccine to attend school unless they have a medical or religious exemption. If you don't want to vaccinate, you have to home school. It is also required in nine European countries including France and Italy. Ontario, Canada and New South Wales, Australia require them too to go to school. This doc's letter sums it up pretty much for me ... In other words, the Swedish model, Paul. |
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Post by andystokey on Dec 1, 2020 7:43:22 GMT
Great points these Paul and I think up until about 8 months ago I would be typing this verbatim. I still agree with overwhelming majority of this in full. But I don't know how much longer we can allow this nonsense that is festering away on social media, but also in the mainstream to carry on unchecked. There is nobody in my close family/friends that I am aware of from an MMR that has not been vaccinated, however of there was then I wouldn't have knowingly taken my daughter around them prior to vaccination. There is such a huge number of people following this nonsense now and the false equivalence I'm quite in favour of it. I care more about people living ajd living normal lives than I do upsetting nutters. We can't throw the baby out with the bath water though mate. For me it's not about 'upsetting nutters', it's about protecting our values as a society. Uptake of the vaccine should be encouraged though discourse, education and encouragement, not by way of threats. Nadhim Zahawi has been in the job less than 48 hours and right off the bat he's decided that the way to go, is to see people who don't want to have (or are even just unsure about) the vaccine as bad people and to suggest that they need to be treated as bad people and I think that's very, very sad. Conflating a "freedom passport" and the vaccine is my biggest issue and has been since April. I don't want or need a "freedom passport". That's that dealt with. As for vaccine take up the Government needs more carrot less stick. On newsnight last night the debate centred around trust. The various posts in here show trust in HMG and the authorities at an all time low. Unless that improves they have a job on their hands. This isn't bacofoil stuff and some of the replies on here are frankly condescending in the extreme. All most of us want is transparency. I volunteered my restrictions for a cause. Now that is being taken advantage of in the name of the cause. The Welsh have prohibition and I need a "freedom pass" I don't think so. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 1, 2020 8:20:03 GMT
It's about keeping people alive. It isn't toys out of the bath water, this is widespread, being fuelled for dark room lurkers to celebrities and is one of the saddest things to become prevalent through the pandemic. I'm no fan of Nadhim but for me, he's got this right and I would continue to push it. We have vaccine, it needs to be used.So what do we do with the kids whose parents don't want them to have the MMR vaccine? No school until they have it, or do we get the state to take them away and force the needle into them? Yes quite frankly. Selfish fuckers. |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Dec 1, 2020 8:28:07 GMT
I couldn't agree more Paul. I'm very pro vaccination. My three children have had absolutely everything available. I have seen first hand the damage things like measles and meningitis have done to kids and adults. However I have serious reservations about the up and coming vaccines. IMO the time scale of testing is just not long enough. However under the current Twitter, Facebook courts that makes me an anti vaxxer. Vaccination should never be mandatory also it should never be made mandatory by using the strings attached approach advocated by many. We are embarking on a very slippery slope at the moment. I'm very worried about the direction of travel of this country and the willingness of many of the population to take us in that direction. I've no problem at all with vaccines that have been proved effective over many years. I am however far more cautious about these Covid ones simply because I'm assuming the usual long timescale rules are in place for a reason (if they aren't necessary, why the hell aren't we rolling out cancer drugs etc far quicker). The fact that the pharmaceutical companies involved have insisted on not being liable if any long term problems occur hardly fills you with confidence either. Is the drug safe or isn't it? - sounds very much like a 'probably/maybe' to me. The length of time for vaccine approval in normal times is because of administrative and production delays - writing and processing grant applications, recruitment, bureaucracy, competition for research equipment and manufacturing facilities etc. Most of the elapsed time is actually dead time - nothing happens. For the coronavirus vaccine much of that dead time has been eliminated - in particular researchers have just been given the money to get on with it and the pharmaceutical industry have made their facilities available early (AstraZeneca have produced the vaccine in large quantities before the results were produced knowing that they might have to pour the stuff down the drain if the results weren't positive which they wouldn't normally do). Where they haven't cut corners is safety - the vaccines have gone through the same rigorous testing regime any other vaccine would have done and are as safe as any other vaccine at this stage of testing - and the testing has to pass the usual standards by the relevant independent authorities in order to get approval. It seems that the very people most set against lock downs are the same people who are anti vaccination or at least the most nervous about taking it. I don't get it - is having the ability to infect and kill others part of the definition of individual liberty? Is it every Englishman's god given right to incubate and spread disease? The very people accusing those reluctantly going along with the government's cack handed attempts to save lives as being fearful are the one's most afraid of a pin prick. It's weird. |
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Dec 1, 2020 8:31:16 GMT
It seems that the very people most set against lock downs are the same people who are anti vaccination or at least the most nervous about taking it. I don't get it - is having the ability to infect and kill others part of the definition of individual liberty? Is it every Englishman's god given right to incubate and spread disease? The very people accusing those reluctantly going along with the government's cack handed attempts to save lives as being fearful are the one's most afraid of a pin prick. It's weird. How many people have you killed so far this year? |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Dec 1, 2020 8:45:48 GMT
So what do we do with the kids whose parents don't want them to have the MMR vaccine? No school until they have it, or do we get the state to take them away and force the needle into them? Yes quite frankly. Selfish fuckers. I don't think anyone should have a needle stuck in them. However the selfish fuckers should stop bleating about being called selfish fuckers on the grounds that they are as a matter of fact being selfish fuckers. Also I really don't see the problem if while covid is an issue people who refuse the vaccine without a medical reason are refused entry to things like football matches. If someone is unfortunate to have a medical condition and not able to take the vaccine why should they risk infection by being sat next to a selfish fucker who refuses to take it? Should the unfortunate person with the medical condition be refused entry in order to allow the selfish fucker to exercise their inalienable right to infect others? If anyone actually wants to go abroad they will more than likely have to have a vaccination certificate anyway. Most countries are going to do this - and we'll do the same, at least if we had any sense - which would mean if someone did go to a country that wasn't asking for a certificate they wouldn't be let back in the country. PLIBT. So in summary - selfish fuckers should be allowed to refuse the vaccine but those of us who do take the vaccine for the public good should retain the right to point out the selfish fuckers are being selfish fuckers. Which just goes to show - one man's freedom fighter is another man's selfish fucker. |
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