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Post by musik on Nov 29, 2020 11:58:51 GMT
There's no point with a lockdown that's going on for ages if people won't follow it - and if they did, it wouldn't have to continue that long. Not long at all actually! The virus can't live by itself, it "lives" in contact with living creatures. Only. Actually it's dead matter and can only exist 7-10 days under normal conditions. In an ordinary freezer a few weeks apparently. And if it's really cold: noone knows how long. That's partly why it's dangerous with the melting ices. They have found bacteria shit there that doesn't exist anywhere else. So my view is: no point with an half hearted lockdown that goes on "forever".
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Post by musik on Nov 29, 2020 12:15:09 GMT
More chance of him being their poster boy. What a plum. Yes he looks like a fraudster - but it's a bit rich coming from the bloke who put forward stuff from the AIER and has quoted virtually every other poster boy from the self promoting anti lockdown brigade as gospel. Having become enlightened to the dubious reliability of social media for information about something as complex as a pandemic are you going to be more circumspect about posting stuff that happens to coincide with what you have already decided to be true? When I read the linked article it reminded me of the depressive FMH (People Health Agency), responsible for managing the pandemic strategies, we have here in Sweden. A tall grey guy (not Tegnell) said this week, we can't put all our trust into a vaccine. That's only part of the solution. We have to live something like this for years to come. Corona is part of our society now. We don't know how effective a vaccine will be, and how long the effect lasts and how many will have it. (Studies in Sweden show 45%.) I'm a bit more optimistic myself.
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Post by starkiller on Nov 29, 2020 12:23:29 GMT
Check out the story on the far right ( not a pun) The 77th brigade have been tasked with rooting out anti Vax messages. They are recruiting reservists ahead of the vaccine rollout. "Ministers will then launch a huge public campaign to encourage people to get a jab. "The campaign will be reinforced by counter-disinformation efforts led by the Cabinet Office, with support from the army and GCHQ. "Last night, army Brig (Retd) Ben Barry of the International Institute for Strategic Studies said the army would probably become increasingly important in countering Covid-19 disinformation. A core part of its work was analysing how messages flowed around the world, who was viewing messages, reacting and then spreading them to other people. A job for some on here. I used to tell people that there are bodies employed to fill comments sections with state propaganda, and bodies that control what people are allowed to read and discuss. Of course, I was told I was crazy. 77th Brigade trolls have overzealous support for government measures, ridicule for anyone questioning, using labels and insults to keep people in line, and attempts to shame public as selfish idiots. Methods also part of the Behavioural Insights Team. The same operations in force in Communist China. This is Britain 2020.
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Post by Gods on Nov 29, 2020 12:34:33 GMT
I honestly think the challenge will more be to manage people trying to jump the queue to get a vaccine rather than any noise the anti vacc brigade can throw in. Most people just want their lives back.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Nov 29, 2020 12:36:14 GMT
Check out the story on the far right ( not a pun) The 77th brigade have been tasked with rooting out anti Vax messages. They are recruiting reservists ahead of the vaccine rollout. "Ministers will then launch a huge public campaign to encourage people to get a jab. "The campaign will be reinforced by counter-disinformation efforts led by the Cabinet Office, with support from the army and GCHQ. "Last night, army Brig (Retd) Ben Barry of the International Institute for Strategic Studies said the army would probably become increasingly important in countering Covid-19 disinformation. A core part of its work was analysing how messages flowed around the world, who was viewing messages, reacting and then spreading them to other people. A job for some on here. I used to tell people that there are bodies employed to fill comments sections with state propaganda, and bodies that control what people are allowed to read and discuss. Of course, I was told I was crazy. 77th Brigade trolls have overzealous support for government measures, ridicule for anyone questioning, using labels and insults to keep people in line, and attempts to shame public as selfish idiots. Methods also part of the Behavioural Insights Team. The same operations in force in Communist China. This is Britain 2020. How did you vote last December?
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Post by starkiller on Nov 29, 2020 13:35:13 GMT
A job for some on here. I used to tell people that there are bodies employed to fill comments sections with state propaganda, and bodies that control what people are allowed to read and discuss. Of course, I was told I was crazy. 77th Brigade trolls have overzealous support for government measures, ridicule for anyone questioning, using labels and insults to keep people in line, and attempts to shame public as selfish idiots. Methods also part of the Behavioural Insights Team. The same operations in force in Communist China. This is Britain 2020. How did you vote last December? I didn't. And I haven't voted for any party for years. Fluctuating between spoilt ballots, random independents if available, and not voting at all.
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Post by starkiller on Nov 29, 2020 14:03:17 GMT
After Portugal, some lawyers are gathering the case here.
I said lawyers could clean up. Lawsuit against the government for losses.
The state will simply not be able to demonstrate that a PCR test shows a person is infected, and everything is based on this. Lockdowns, quarantines, rules, lack of medical treatment, businesses gone, etc.
Sue for losses and damages. Against the government and against all those making billions from this scam.
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Post by andystokey on Nov 29, 2020 14:26:55 GMT
After Portugal, some lawyers are gathering the case here. I said lawyers could clean up. Lawsuit against the government for losses. The state will simply not be able to demonstrate that a PCR test shows a person is infected, and everything is based on this. Lockdowns, quarantines, rules, lack of medical treatment, businesses gone, etc. Sue for losses and damages. Against the government and against all those making billions from this scam. It won't happen in the UK the Coronavirus Act 2020 gives the government power to do anything. Schedule 21 doesn't even require you to be carrying Covid-19 in order to be detained. The wording is very carefully in the government's favour. It talks about "reasonable grounds to suspect" and "potentially infectious" They can pretty much do whatever they like.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Nov 29, 2020 14:35:49 GMT
Check out the story on the far right ( not a pun) The 77th brigade have been tasked with rooting out anti Vax messages. They are recruiting reservists ahead of the vaccine rollout. "Ministers will then launch a huge public campaign to encourage people to get a jab. "The campaign will be reinforced by counter-disinformation efforts led by the Cabinet Office, with support from the army and GCHQ. "Last night, army Brig (Retd) Ben Barry of the International Institute for Strategic Studies said the army would probably become increasingly important in countering Covid-19 disinformation. A core part of its work was analysing how messages flowed around the world, who was viewing messages, reacting and then spreading them to other people. A job for some on here. I used to tell people that there are bodies employed to fill comments sections with state propaganda, and bodies that control what people are allowed to read and discuss. Of course, I was told I was crazy. 77th Brigade trolls have overzealous support for government measures, ridicule for anyone questioning, using labels and insults to keep people in line, and attempts to shame public as selfish idiots. Methods also part of the Behavioural Insights Team. The same operations in force in Communist China. This is Britain 2020. The one massive difference you fail to point out is that in Britain in 2020 a national newspaper can happily print this story without fear of being closed down or the reporters being thrown in jail. Don't you believe the government have the right to counter what they consider misinformation about vaccines? How is that different from you telling everyone to mistrust the mainstream media (ironically one of the functioning institutions that keeps us free from tyranny) and exclusively trust in your conspiracy approved websites?
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Post by Gary Hackett on Nov 29, 2020 15:25:23 GMT
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Post by wagsastokie on Nov 29, 2020 15:38:26 GMT
So if I have read that right Stoke’s hospital figures are actually skewed by Wales and the north west when it comes to one of the criteria in the tier levels
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Nov 29, 2020 16:54:26 GMT
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Post by Gods on Nov 29, 2020 17:17:24 GMT
Interesting they were saying on the radio that while 25% of people in Liverpool have volunteered for these city wide covid tests that number is only 4% in the poorer areas.
Am thinking if there is a similar challenge with the vaccine it will continue to be less well off people doing most of the dying as it is today which would be a tragedy.
How you reach out to these communities I don't know but it needs serious attention.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Nov 29, 2020 17:21:17 GMT
Running a legitimate business, so legitimate it got struck off without ever submitting any accounts Massive own goal for our Benji here. Why I didn’t say he was right i posted ifwithout comment or endorsement it as an example of contrary argument it’s not influenced me either way I’ve been a advocate of hard long lockdown since day one but accept others feel differently
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Nov 29, 2020 17:39:58 GMT
Interesting they were saying on the radio that while 25% of people in Liverpool have volunteered for these city wide covid tests that number is only 4% in the poorer areas. Am thinking if there is a similar challenge with the vaccine it will continue to be less well off people doing most of the dying as it is today which would be a tragedy. How you reach out to these communities I don't know but it needs serious attention. They're most probably too busy stacking the shelves in Tesco & delivering your Amazon order to your door for a dogshit wage so they can keep a roof over their head & food on the table to be worrying about taking some test.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Nov 29, 2020 17:40:29 GMT
Running a legitimate business, so legitimate it got struck off without ever submitting any accounts Massive own goal for our Benji here. Why I didn’t say he was right i posted ifwithout comment or endorsement it as an example of contrary argument it’s not influenced me either way I’ve been a advocate of hard long lockdown since day one but accept others feel differently Feel sorry for you on this one Benji - all you've done is post a link to a dodgy website on the wrong side of the arguement. Had it been a dodgy website supporting the other side of the arguement you'd be feeling the love.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 29, 2020 17:41:14 GMT
Interesting they were saying on the radio that while 25% of people in Liverpool have volunteered for these city wide covid tests that number is only 4% in the poorer areas. Am thinking if there is a similar challenge with the vaccine it will continue to be less well off people doing most of the dying as it is today which would be a tragedy. How you reach out to these communities I don't know but it needs serious attention. The reason it's only 4% in the poorer areas is because they can't afford to be told they've got to go into quarantine for two weeks. If you were living from each pay cheque to the next and felt perfectly healthy, why on earth would you go and do something that could result in you losing a fortnight's pay? You make it sound like "these communities" are ignorant or just can't be arsed. There will be a much bigger take-up for the vaccine.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Nov 29, 2020 17:51:27 GMT
Why I didn’t say he was right i posted ifwithout comment or endorsement it as an example of contrary argument it’s not influenced me either way I’ve been a advocate of hard long lockdown since day one but accept others feel differently Feel sorry for you on this one Benji - all you've done is post a link to a dodgy website on the wrong side of the arguement. Had it been a dodgy website supporting the other side of the arguement you'd be feeling the love. I’m not fussed more than happy to see both sides I’ve made my view clear and seen nothing to change or Amend it as yet
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Post by Gods on Nov 29, 2020 18:27:57 GMT
Interesting they were saying on the radio that while 25% of people in Liverpool have volunteered for these city wide covid tests that number is only 4% in the poorer areas. Am thinking if there is a similar challenge with the vaccine it will continue to be less well off people doing most of the dying as it is today which would be a tragedy. How you reach out to these communities I don't know but it needs serious attention. The reason it's only 4% in the poorer areas is because they can't afford to be told they've got to go into quarantine for two weeks. If you were living from each pay cheque to the next and felt perfectly healthy, why on earth would you go and do something that could result in you losing a fortnight's pay? You make it sound like "these communities" are ignorant or just can't be arsed. There will be a much bigger take-up for the vaccine. I didn't even speculate as to the reason, merely pointed it out. I hope you are right that the vaccine will enjoy a strong take up everywhere, it's our only way out of this purgatory, but my guess it will be a challenge to reach some communities. ** Have bookmarked this for when the issue arises!
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Post by OldStokie on Nov 29, 2020 18:37:15 GMT
Interesting they were saying on the radio that while 25% of people in Liverpool have volunteered for these city wide covid tests that number is only 4% in the poorer areas. Am thinking if there is a similar challenge with the vaccine it will continue to be less well off people doing most of the dying as it is today which would be a tragedy. How you reach out to these communities I don't know but it needs serious attention. The reason it's only 4% in the poorer areas is because they can't afford to be told they've got to go into quarantine for two weeks. If you were living from each pay cheque to the next and felt perfectly healthy, why on earth would you go and do something that could result in you losing a fortnight's pay? You make it sound like "these communities" are ignorant or just can't be arsed. There will be a much bigger take-up for the vaccine. And that, Paul, has hit the nail on the head. Many poorer people, if they get the virus and the symptoms are manageable, will still go to work because they simply can't afford not to. This is also part of why the virus is spreading. Without a support package to sustain them properly while they're self-isolating, I honestly can't blame them. M.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 29, 2020 18:39:00 GMT
I bet SAGE/Government aren't aware of this fact, or have even bothered to find out ...
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Nov 29, 2020 18:39:43 GMT
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Post by andystokey on Nov 29, 2020 18:43:30 GMT
I bet SAGE/Government aren't aware of this fact, or have even bothered to find out ... Since SAGE admitted recently after lockdown 1.0 they had no idea that agency staff worked in multiple care homes I doubt anyone has even done anything so rudimentary as understand the demographic of the UK.
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Post by Timmypotter on Nov 29, 2020 19:12:41 GMT
Why I didn’t say he was right i posted ifwithout comment or endorsement it as an example of contrary argument it’s not influenced me either way I’ve been a advocate of hard long lockdown since day one but accept others feel differently Feel sorry for you on this one Benji - all you've done is post a link to a dodgy website on the wrong side of the arguement. Had it been a dodgy website supporting the other side of the arguement you'd be feeling the love. Except it wasn't a dodgy website. It was the Mirror. Giving a national platform to a confidence trickster on something he knows nothing about. Incredible scenes.
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Post by Timmypotter on Nov 29, 2020 19:29:22 GMT
I bet SAGE/Government aren't aware of this fact, or have even bothered to find out ... Since SAGE admitted recently after lockdown 1.0 they had no idea that agency staff worked in multiple care homes I doubt anyone has even done anything so rudimentary as understand the demographic of the UK. The die is cast. We're now in too deep for there to be any contemplation that there might be other approaches. This data is just a potential source of embarrassment. It'd be interesting to see if there's a control for this metric in the Imperial modelling.
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Post by hcstokie on Nov 29, 2020 20:08:15 GMT
I bet SAGE/Government aren't aware of this fact, or have even bothered to find out ... Since SAGE admitted recently after lockdown 1.0 they had no idea that agency staff worked in multiple care homes I doubt anyone has even done anything so rudimentary as understand the demographic of the UK. I’m assuming that a fair proportion of that 96% have over 65s providing them childcare though?
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Nov 29, 2020 20:37:27 GMT
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Post by ColonelMustard on Nov 29, 2020 20:49:23 GMT
Interesting they were saying on the radio that while 25% of people in Liverpool have volunteered for these city wide covid tests that number is only 4% in the poorer areas. Am thinking if there is a similar challenge with the vaccine it will continue to be less well off people doing most of the dying as it is today which would be a tragedy. How you reach out to these communities I don't know but it needs serious attention. The reason it's only 4% in the poorer areas is because they can't afford to be told they've got to go into quarantine for two weeks. If you were living from each pay cheque to the next and felt perfectly healthy, why on earth would you go and do something that could result in you losing a fortnight's pay? You make it sound like "these communities" are ignorant or just can't be arsed. There will be a much bigger take-up for the vaccine. Read the other day that 40% of the UK doesnt have enough savings to last a month.
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Post by Davef on Nov 29, 2020 21:37:03 GMT
It's extremely sad and heartbreaking for the families involved, but that's a pretty strange article given that the seven day average for deaths in the UHNM is just under 10 and last Thursday 16 deaths were reported. On reflection though, it's probably because the number of deaths has exceeded 600. As ever though, there's not much context to the article. The Royal Stoke is one of the largest hospitals in the country and it's been established that it's accepting patients from the south of the county as well as North Wales. And of the 215 reported deaths in England today, all but 12 were in the 60-79 and 80+ age groups, with over half in the latter group. Is the author of the article aware of the ages of the deceased at the Royal Stoke, any co morbidities they may have had or whether they have died from other causes having tested positive within 28 days?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 29, 2020 22:25:06 GMT
Since SAGE admitted recently after lockdown 1.0 they had no idea that agency staff worked in multiple care homes I doubt anyone has even done anything so rudimentary as understand the demographic of the UK. I’m assuming that a fair proportion of that 96% have over 65s providing them childcare though? If people over 65 want to look after their grandkids, that's great, they have the choice to do so, however if other people in that age group want financial (or any other kind of) assistance to shield, then make sure it is available (it will cost a damn site less than destroying the economy and mortgaging our kids futures) but don't deny the young their rights too.
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