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Post by Gary Hackett on Oct 27, 2020 1:35:07 GMT
This bit stood out: But the impact of Covid is felt in the hospital way beyond the ICU. The more Covid there is, the greater the impact on other non-emergency care - hip replacements, eye operations, myriad other conditions. In March, there was concern that hospitals would be overwhelmed, so all non-urgent surgery was cancelled. This time, the aim is to ensure that non-Covid patients don't lose out. But every bed allocated to Covid care requires specialist nurses. Already, the Royal Victoria Infirmary (RVI) has had to close four of its 50 operating theatres to reallocate the nurses to intensive care.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 27, 2020 1:40:03 GMT
This bit stood out: But the impact of Covid is felt in the hospital way beyond the ICU. The more Covid there is, the greater the impact on other non-emergency care - hip replacements, eye operations, myriad other conditions. In March, there was concern that hospitals would be overwhelmed, so all non-urgent surgery was cancelled. This time, the aim is to ensure that non-Covid patients don't lose out. But every bed allocated to Covid care requires specialist nurses. Already, the Royal Victoria Infirmary (RVI) has had to close four of its 50 operating theatres to reallocate the nurses to intensive care. Here was me thinking it was the rest of it that is actually really positive. 😂🤦♂️
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Post by Gary Hackett on Oct 27, 2020 1:45:57 GMT
This bit stood out: But the impact of Covid is felt in the hospital way beyond the ICU. The more Covid there is, the greater the impact on other non-emergency care - hip replacements, eye operations, myriad other conditions. In March, there was concern that hospitals would be overwhelmed, so all non-urgent surgery was cancelled. This time, the aim is to ensure that non-Covid patients don't lose out. But every bed allocated to Covid care requires specialist nurses. Already, the Royal Victoria Infirmary (RVI) has had to close four of its 50 operating theatres to reallocate the nurses to intensive care. Here was me thinking it was the rest of it that is actually really positive. 😂🤦♂️ Also kind of explains why the Nightingale hospitals have limited use as covid care beds require specialist nurses not ones you can recruit and fully train up in 6 months.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2020 4:11:49 GMT
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Post by adri2008 on Oct 27, 2020 7:14:58 GMT
The headline for this is highly misleading. Antibody levels drop as is expected over time and the article then goes on to say they have no idea what the immune system would do if it was reinfected and/or how big a part T cells would play. The headline may as well say 'herd immunity confirmed!'.
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Post by greenhoff on Oct 27, 2020 7:50:46 GMT
The headline for this is highly misleading. Antibody levels drop as is expected over time and the article then goes on to say they have no idea what the immune system would do if it was reinfected and/or how big a part T cells would play. The headline may as well say 'herd immunity confirmed!'. Spot on. Misleading headline. Funny it's the Imperial College funded by Gates again. Dr Yeadon one again gets it spot on. If I want advice on the heart I ask a Cardiologist not an Orthopaedic surgeon. This is essentially what is happening with the so called experts. Hilary Jones passing all this off a fact to a huge audience. It's so wrong.
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Post by thisisouryear on Oct 27, 2020 7:59:28 GMT
The headline for this is highly misleading. Antibody levels drop as is expected over time and the article then goes on to say they have no idea what the immune system would do if it was reinfected and/or how big a part T cells would play. The headline may as well say 'herd immunity confirmed!'. Spot on. Misleading headline. Funny it's the Imperial College funded by Gates again. Dr Yeadon one again gets it spot on. If I want advice on the heart I ask a Cardiologist not an Orthopaedic surgeon. This is essentially what is happening with the so called experts. Hilary Jones passing all this off a fact to a huge audience. It's so wrong. Gets what spot on? Imperial college who have been doing a large study for months release their results? So you falling for the Bill Gates crap too hey? He's a good person who spends a fortune trying to help those less fortunate. If you can't tell a good person from a twat there is no helping you.
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Post by andystokey on Oct 27, 2020 8:01:50 GMT
The headline for this is highly misleading. Antibody levels drop as is expected over time and the article then goes on to say they have no idea what the immune system would do if it was reinfected and/or how big a part T cells would play. The headline may as well say 'herd immunity confirmed!'. Spot on. Misleading headline. Funny it's the Imperial College funded by Gates again. Dr Yeadon one again gets it spot on. If I want advice on the heart I ask a Cardiologist not an Orthopaedic surgeon. This is essentially what is happening with the so called experts. Hilary Jones passing all this off a fact to a huge audience. It's so wrong. How on earth does the phrase "herd immunity" even get into these headlines? I guess "Covid antibody decay curve experimental results published" doesn't make news. A contrary headline might read "Vaccine unlikely to provide lengthy immunity" but I suspect that would leave the public stuck with little or no hope and the current system for longer.
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Post by Northy on Oct 27, 2020 8:06:19 GMT
Weakness And lack of resilience masquerading as champions of freedoms it’s this very weakness and lack of fortitude which has allowed the virus to take off Anyone who sees the next story about virus overload i Europe can see lockdown was and is inevitable it’s hair now about how many we kill and Maine before we have the guts to do it and enforce it properly . You're going to America for a haircut ?
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Post by westlandstokie on Oct 27, 2020 8:13:18 GMT
I had a text from my Doctors yesterday saying that I needed to have a blood test and have my blood pressure checked..usually not a problem..walk into the surgery, put my arm into the machine in the waiting room and give the result to the Receptionist Blood test normally done at Bradwell Hospital..do I really want to go there at the moment..no..why can't this be done at my Doctors surgery ? Patients are receiving terrible service at the moment Text says that I have to do my own blood pressure measurement as it can't be done at the surgery at present..if I went to the trouble of buying something to do my own test how can I be sure I've done it correctly? As many have said it's storing lots of problems for later years. Thankfully I feel great so I'm not going to get the tests this time..wrong I know..but I just can't play their silly games any more..I've just about had enough of it all now.
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Post by salopstick on Oct 27, 2020 8:18:22 GMT
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Post by davejohnno1 on Oct 27, 2020 8:36:48 GMT
Just reading an article suggesting that anti bodies last only a few months so building immunity isn't possible with reinfections likely as per the common cold.
If true, it begs the question again of what the hell is point in all these measures. Somehow, we need to learn to live with it.
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Post by andystokey on Oct 27, 2020 8:39:41 GMT
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Post by bgreen13 on Oct 27, 2020 8:39:56 GMT
It’d be best if she was taken off our screens.
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Post by salopstick on Oct 27, 2020 8:42:19 GMT
Her original statement was what everyone is thinking the country over
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Post by greenhoff on Oct 27, 2020 8:49:59 GMT
Spot on. Misleading headline. Funny it's the Imperial College funded by Gates again. Dr Yeadon one again gets it spot on. If I want advice on the heart I ask a Cardiologist not an Orthopaedic surgeon. This is essentially what is happening with the so called experts. Hilary Jones passing all this off a fact to a huge audience. It's so wrong. Gets what spot on? Imperial college who have been doing a large study for months release their results? So you falling for the Bill Gates crap too hey? He's a good person who spends a fortune trying to help those less fortunate. If you can't tell a good person from a twat there is no helping you. It's all about opinions fella. Perhaps you should consider a different one. He funds Ferguson who has consistently got things massively wrong. Things are not always what they seem. I can tell a twat from a good person sometimes by what they post on here. Have a good day.
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Post by greenhoff on Oct 27, 2020 8:51:45 GMT
Just reading an article suggesting that anti bodies last only a few months so building immunity isn't possible with reinfections likely as per the common cold. If true, it begs the question again of what the hell is point in all these measures. Somehow, we need to learn to live with it. I was actually accused of disrespecting the dead for a similar opinion on Twitter. The world has gone stark raving bonkers.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Oct 27, 2020 8:52:33 GMT
Weakness And lack of resilience masquerading as champions of freedoms it’s this very weakness and lack of fortitude which has allowed the virus to take off Anyone who sees the next story about virus overload i Europe can see lockdown was and is inevitable it’s hair now about how many we kill and Maine before we have the guts to do it and enforce it properly . Oh fuck it why don't we all just shoot ourselves.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Oct 27, 2020 9:00:03 GMT
Weakness And lack of resilience masquerading as champions of freedoms it’s this very weakness and lack of fortitude which has allowed the virus to take off Anyone who sees the next story about virus overload i Europe can see lockdown was and is inevitable it’s hair now about how many we kill and Maine before we have the guts to do it and enforce it properly . Oh fuck it why don't we all just shoot ourselves. Why would we do that . 1 send the kids home ( they adapt ) remote university study 2 close none essential shops for three weeks 3 aimReduce the virus to summer levels case and let hospitals start treating cancer patients etc 4 works from home where possible , with appropriate compensation for those who can’t 5 wait for the vaccine in the spring requires , patience , tenacity and backbone from government and people alike but right now middle ground is leading to a devastated economy and catastrophic health consequences , Hancock had been proved wrong i is indeed one or the other
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Post by Davef on Oct 27, 2020 9:04:30 GMT
The headline for this is highly misleading. Antibody levels drop as is expected over time and the article then goes on to say they have no idea what the immune system would do if it was reinfected and/or how big a part T cells would play. The headline may as well say 'herd immunity confirmed!'. Spot on. Misleading headline. Funny it's the Imperial College funded by Gates again. Dr Yeadon one again gets it spot on. If I want advice on the heart I ask a Cardiologist not an Orthopaedic surgeon. This is essentially what is happening with the so called experts. Hilary Jones passing all this off a fact to a huge audience. It's so wrong. Jones knows he's wrong as well. ESOF explained this months ago didn't he? Immunology 101 he called it, I think.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Oct 27, 2020 9:23:51 GMT
So on that fear factor basis why a few weeks ago didn't they try and hide / not reveal data showing that it was the vast majority of young people who were getting it and of those young people hardly anyone died? Why did they adjust the death period down to 28 days if they wanted to ramp up the fear factor rather than downplaying it. They've got sage, the opposition and public opinion all against their anti lockdown policies, if there was any way they could show data to support their position they would. In regards to education being the major driver, I'd agree with that to a degree but as Milanstokie pointed out in Italy there were little rises when their schools / uni's reopened it was a few weeks later when the weather turned and households started mixing indoors again. The last thing I want is for the economy to be wrecked but I think we're in danger of doing more damage by having an uncohesive set of policies which don't work but which keep the economy in uncertainty. Rolling short, sharp lockdowns every few months with some normality like we saw in July and August in between is the only way to go imo to keep deaths down and to keep the economy functioning as best as it can in between until we get that immunity from the vaccine next summer. They adjusted the period because it was clearly ridiculous that people who had recovered from Covid but then went on to die of something else entirely were being included in the Covid figures. An issue that was actually pointed out to them by Carl Heneghan, somebody who has been very critical of the government. Your rolling short sharp national lockdowns might be the correct way to go but from where I'm sitting, you're basing it on very little. All I'm asking for, is to see the relevant data before I'll start championing one method over another. Is that really too much to ask? I noticed you just tossed away the rest of my post, which contained (imo) quite pertinent figures that need addressing. There is a lack of data out there which raises legitimate questions and as long as those questions present themselves, then I'll keep asking them. I haven't got an agenda and I'm not suggesting I'm right, indeed I'm not even offering an opinion, I just want to see the data before being able to formulate one. As I've asked before, if the virus is as prevalent as it was first time around, then why aren't they telling people who had to shield first time around to shield now? And I don't buy the fatigue answer any longer, this has been going on since the beginning of September but there still isn't an instruction for vulnerable people to shield, why is that? It's a perfectly reasonable question to ask. And I'm still really interested in why things aren't taking off in London to the same degree either? The lack of people currently in the West End and the City will probably be having some effect but there are plenty of people working from home who are employed in Manchester and Liverpool too and beyond that, London is an absolutely massive place which is in effect, a city of many small cities and towns, so why two months on, has the virus not taken hold in anything like the way it has in the North? Surely this is a hugely important question that needs answering because the answer in itself might help us to establish the best way forwards in other areas. It just seems to me, to simply say "just lock it all down" is an incredibly simple/lazy solution, even if it is a solution at all, at the end of the day, it might indeed be the only way but please, show me the data first. This is an interesting piece. www.spectator.co.uk/article/The-ten-worst-Covid-data-failuresGood article. There really needs to be a public enquiry into what went on and the lessons learned fed back into future pandemic planning. I take a few things from that: 1 We were woefully unprepared for dealing with a pandemic. I understand the WHO advised governments to do some serious planning for a pandemic - we clearly didn't listen. 2 The lack of co-ordination and consistency between the various agencies involved (SAGE, Public Health England, local government, assorted Tory sponsoring private companies) is frightening. 3 The science is evolving all the time and to be fair on the government they have a really tough job making policy on the back of ever changing advice. 4 We still have a free press. To my knowledge the Spectator is still up and running despite this article exposing what went on. 5 The role played by cock up and incompetence can't be underestimated. After reading about that series of howlers how anyone can think this or any other government is capable of pulling off a global conspiracy is beyond me. 6 Why did we try to go it alone? Some countries (Japan, South Korea, Germany, New Zealand) have been far more successful than us at dealing with the pandemic but rather than cherry pick the best of what's out there we seemed to be obsessed with keeping it in house. I really respect your tenacity in trying to understand the data in order to come to a rational position on the covid pandemic and if anything this article shows just how hard that is even for those closest to the best information available - there simply isn't a definitive answer and the best information today isn't going to be the best information tomorrow. After reading that I still don't think this government and their advisers are any in any way evil or malicious - they are just imperfect people making imperfect decisions in an imperfect world. However they are a bit crap and could and should do a lot better. The thing is whether Boris and his band of merry men (and it is predominately men - apart from the staggeringly incompetent Dido Harding) are capable of learning from their mistakes or will the phrase "world beating" forever be synonymous with "complete and utter fuck up*. Oh - and on a personal level I'm still going to stick by the (imperfect) rules so as to protect the vulnerable from this bastard of a (real) disease. As much as I want rid of this government I'm not going to man the barricades over this one.
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Post by Davef on Oct 27, 2020 9:25:38 GMT
Anybody?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 27, 2020 9:26:19 GMT
I thought it’s widely been accepted for a few months now the antibody response is weak in most people and non existent in some people that get it?
Herd immunity without a vaccine is a terrible idea anyway.
And re reinfections, they can happen but seem rare? Which I’m taking as a good thing now and not luck.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Oct 27, 2020 9:27:30 GMT
Weakness And lack of resilience masquerading as champions of freedoms it’s this very weakness and lack of fortitude which has allowed the virus to take off Anyone who sees the next story about virus overload i Europe can see lockdown was and is inevitable it’s hair now about how many we kill and Maine before we have the guts to do it and enforce it properly . I don’t think the government have covered themselves in glory and have not been ruthless enough because they’re scared of upsetting people. But one of the biggest issues is the inhability of people to do the basics. Is it that much of a sacrifice to - Wear a mask when you go shopping or when on public transport (unless you have a health condition) - Keep 2m apart when you can - Not go on protests - keep in your bubble Some People make out like they’re being asked to do far worse. If everybody had kept to the above we wouldn’t be where we are now but there’s always going to be that minority who won’t toe the line hence why everyone’s saying we may as well not bother because it isn’t working. It’s doing the small things that stop us having to pay the price long term.
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Post by andystokey on Oct 27, 2020 9:30:39 GMT
Weakness And lack of resilience masquerading as champions of freedoms it’s this very weakness and lack of fortitude which has allowed the virus to take off Anyone who sees the next story about virus overload i Europe can see lockdown was and is inevitable it’s hair now about how many we kill and Maine before we have the guts to do it and enforce it properly . I don’t think the government have covered themselves in glory and have not been ruthless enough because they’re scared of upsetting people. But one of the biggest issues is the inhability of people to do the basics. Is it that much of a sacrifice to - Wear a mask when you go shopping or when on public transport (unless you have a health condition) - Keep 2m apart when you can - Not go on protests - keep in your bubble Some People make out like they’re being asked to do far worse. If everybody had kept to the above we wouldn’t be where we are now but there’s always going to be that minority who won’t toe the line hence why everyone’s saying we may as well not bother because it isn’t working. It’s doing the small things that stop us having to pay the price long term. Is that also true in Spain, Italy, France, Belgium, Sweden, Finland, Norway and Germany or just the UK?
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Post by franklin on Oct 27, 2020 9:44:26 GMT
I don’t think the government have covered themselves in glory and have not been ruthless enough because they’re scared of upsetting people. But one of the biggest issues is the inhability of people to do the basics. Is it that much of a sacrifice to - Wear a mask when you go shopping or when on public transport (unless you have a health condition) - Keep 2m apart when you can - Not go on protests - keep in your bubble Some People make out like they’re being asked to do far worse. If everybody had kept to the above we wouldn’t be where we are now but there’s always going to be that minority who won’t toe the line hence why everyone’s saying we may as well not bother because it isn’t working. It’s doing the small things that stop us having to pay the price long term. Is that also true in Spain, Italy, France, Belgium, Sweden, Finland, Norway and Germany or just the UK? The fear of "bad" PR and being voted out is top trumping common sense all over the globe.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Oct 27, 2020 10:11:55 GMT
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Post by thisisouryear on Oct 27, 2020 11:58:27 GMT
Gets what spot on? Imperial college who have been doing a large study for months release their results? So you falling for the Bill Gates crap too hey? He's a good person who spends a fortune trying to help those less fortunate. If you can't tell a good person from a twat there is no helping you. It's all about opinions fella. Perhaps you should consider a different one. He funds Ferguson who has consistently got things massively wrong. Things are not always what they seem. I can tell a twat from a good person sometimes by what they post on here. Have a good day. I have seen enough of Bill Gates to make a fair judgement about him, I would rather judge him by how he comes across rather than by some conspiracy theory about whatever evil plot he is up to and based on pure fantasy. If you were Bill Gates and your saw potential in some of the experiments going on then of course you would help fund it, this is what he does. He isn't backing one horse he is putting money where good progress is being made and you don't need an algorithm to work that out. Why should I care about what Ferguson forecasted when it was a completely new virus with very little information to go off? It's easy to be way out when you don't have the information there isn't it? As you learn more things change, hindsight is great isn't it. Most people would take that prediction with a pinch of salt like all predictions.
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Post by Davef on Oct 27, 2020 12:07:09 GMT
It's all about opinions fella. Perhaps you should consider a different one. He funds Ferguson who has consistently got things massively wrong. Things are not always what they seem. I can tell a twat from a good person sometimes by what they post on here. Have a good day. I have seen enough of Bill Gates to make a fair judgement about him, I would rather judge him by how he comes across rather than by some conspiracy theory about whatever evil plot he is up to and based on pure fantasy. If you were Bill Gates and your saw potential in some of the experiments going on then of course you would help fund it, this is what he does. He isn't backing one horse he is putting money where good progress is being made and you don't need an algorithm to work that out. Why should I care about what Ferguson forecasted when it was a completely new virus with very little information to go off? It's easy to be way out when you don't have the information there isn't it? As you learn more things change, hindsight is great isn't it. Most people would take that prediction with a pinch of salt like all predictions. The Government didn't take it with a pinch of salt did they?
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Post by OldStokie on Oct 27, 2020 12:08:40 GMT
I had a text from my Doctors yesterday saying that I needed to have a blood test and have my blood pressure checked..usually not a problem..walk into the surgery, put my arm into the machine in the waiting room and give the result to the Receptionist Blood test normally done at Bradwell Hospital..do I really want to go there at the moment..no..why can't this be done at my Doctors surgery ? Patients are receiving terrible service at the moment Text says that I have to do my own blood pressure measurement as it can't be done at the surgery at present..if I went to the trouble of buying something to do my own test how can I be sure I've done it correctly? As many have said it's storing lots of problems for later years. Thankfully I feel great so I'm not going to get the tests this time..wrong I know..but I just can't play their silly games any more..I've just about had enough of it all now. I get texts from my doctors now as well saying pretty much the same thing. They said I should buy a blood pressure thingymabob. I did - from Amazon. (£25 I think it was.) I put it on and did things as per instructions. When I switched it on, it went so tight on my arm I'm sure my heart would have packed up if I suffered from high blood pressure. Fortunately I don't so all that happend was that I got a decent reading and a sore arm for a day for my troubles. I went for a glaucoma pressure check up at Meir Health Centre recently and have received a letter saying I need to book an appointment for a follow up. It says that if I don't contact them within 14 days they (Communuty Health and Eyecare Ltd - a bloody privatised company the government have hiked eye treatment off to) will strike me off their list and I'll have to start eye treatment all over again. And I will only be able to do it after my doctors do another referral. I also have a cataract coming on my right eye. I've been on the bloody phone for an hour this morning to book the follow up and couldn't get through. But at least I can hum Beethoven's 5th symphony in B minor now because I listened to it for so long. The world has gone crackers. OS.
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