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Post by salopstick on Oct 18, 2020 16:13:55 GMT
It’s not theory Digital health passports Police having/using track and trace data CCTV looking for the mask less Draconian measures. It’s happening right in front of our eyes Plus the usual people ie politicians breaking the rules
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Post by musik on Oct 18, 2020 16:19:54 GMT
I'm really anxious to know: Is it possible to do a test to see if you've caught the ordinary season flu? Here in Sweden, I actually don't think so. A vaccine yes. A test no. If you feel it's coming they only direct you to your home to rest, not for a lab test. They don't put resources on that. This was before Corona hit us. If you'd like to do a flu test (never heard of such a thing here), they will do a test for Corona, I guess. If it's a negative result, then they will just ask you to leave. I would be extremely surprised otherwise. I've never known anyone in the UK be tested for flu but someone shared some stats earlier so perhaps it is possible. I see.👍 What I mean is, there are probably tests to find out if anyone has got the flu, but I don't think the health care sector (in Sweden) put any resources on that. If they don't test for the flu in the UK either, one possibility would be to say if your Corona test is negative but you are still sick, it is the flu you have. I know some on here doubt the Corona tests and say some of them might be just the flu. But on the contrary, you can see it the other way: if the Corona tests aren't 100% how many Corona cases do we miss?
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Post by partickpotter on Oct 18, 2020 16:50:17 GMT
So you don't have anything to back it up then, Other than your opinion. So the overwhelming majority of Manchester residents are wrong. The government's own Covid stats are wrong. Probably his most extreme political opponent [Brady] is wrong. Cross party consensus in his constituency is wrong. Okay, whatever. All that But eh Burnham will still go along with it if he gets more financial Compensation. Obviously money makes the virus less contagious Either that or he’s happy with a national lockdown. His position is absurd. Well, in relation to the virus. It is, of course, completely rational for an ambitious politician seeking to turn this crisis to personal political advantage.
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Post by mtrstudent on Oct 18, 2020 16:51:31 GMT
It sounds worrying and I'm terrified of the slippery slope. But I've done UK-US travel and the US already does a lot of snoopy things. For US entry you get a criminal records check in the UK and US and they take your fingerprints, it's just that they link it electronically to your passport. If this is written into law as very specifically for covid only and with a sunset clause, it could be alright. If we want to open things up without killing people, smashing the NHS and ruining our economy for ages then we might just need things like that.
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Post by mtrstudent on Oct 18, 2020 16:55:25 GMT
I'm really anxious to know: Is it possible to do a test to see if you've caught the ordinary season flu? Here in Sweden, I actually don't think so. A vaccine yes. A test no. If you feel it's coming they only direct you to your home to rest, not for a lab test. They don't put resources on that. This was before Corona hit us. If you'd like to do a flu test (never heard of such a thing here), they will do a test for Corona, I guess. If it's a negative result, then they will just ask you to leave. I would be extremely surprised otherwise. Yeah there are flu tests, I know they do them at my gf's hospital in Arizona, but all the covid stuff seems to have squished the flu this year. Here's a boring-looking UK gov't report on flu testing in 2019/2020. Flu spreads far less easily than covid, so all the social distancing/masks/washing is smashing it. Australia basically didn't have a flu season this year.
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Post by musik on Oct 18, 2020 17:09:54 GMT
I'm really anxious to know: Is it possible to do a test to see if you've caught the ordinary season flu? Here in Sweden, I actually don't think so. A vaccine yes. A test no. If you feel it's coming they only direct you to your home to rest, not for a lab test. They don't put resources on that. This was before Corona hit us. If you'd like to do a flu test (never heard of such a thing here), they will do a test for Corona, I guess. If it's a negative result, then they will just ask you to leave. I would be extremely surprised otherwise. Yeah there are flu tests, I know they do them at my gf's hospital in Arizona, but all the covid stuff seems to have squished the flu this year. Here's a boring-looking UK gov't report on flu testing in 2019/2020. Flu spreads far less easily than covid, so all the social distancing/masks/washing is smashing it. Australia basically didn't have a flu season this year. Yes, and thanks for the link. I saw from the report that throat and nose swaps were the most usual tests. It reminds me of the 70ies when they did it on me here, when I had for instance tonsilitis seven times. Since then I've had bronchitis, laryngitis, pneumonia and the flu many times. Not a single test the last 40 years. I very much doubt they exist, no use in asking any longer.😁 But yeah, they listen to the heart and lungs when breathing and coughing and look you in the throat. But that's it. They take it from there.
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Post by bgreen13 on Oct 18, 2020 17:10:50 GMT
It’s not theory Digital health passports Police having/using track and trace data CCTV looking for the mask less Draconian measures. It’s happening right in front of our eyes Plus the usual people ie politicians breaking the rules And a large percentage of the population accepting it.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Oct 18, 2020 17:15:48 GMT
It’s not theory Digital health passports Police having/using track and trace data CCTV looking for the mask less Draconian measures. It’s happening right in front of our eyes Plus the usual people ie politicians breaking the rules And a large percentage of the population accepting it. The disproportionately and extent of the restrictions are a cause for concern/questioning alright
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Post by ColonelMustard on Oct 18, 2020 17:20:23 GMT
Countries are just as welcome to refuse visas for vaccine records as anything else. I've had innoculations for plenty of trips. Anyway I thought we were into border sovereignty?
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Post by salopstick on Oct 18, 2020 17:20:43 GMT
And a large percentage of the population accepting it. The disproportionately and extent of the restrictions are a cause for concern/questioning alright Not according to the covid lot on here. It’s not at all crazy to believe we are being lied too
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Oct 18, 2020 17:21:24 GMT
The mysterious case of the missing influenza virus Its not really mysterious is it. All the current measures we as a society are taking will have a massive impact on reducing levels of flu, maybe even bringing it down close to zero because as you know the flu is nowhere near as infectious as covid. You may well be right but can you please point me to some evidence that the flu is less infectious than C19, I’d a quick google and it seems that they are equally infectious?
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Post by zerps on Oct 18, 2020 17:37:10 GMT
Fair play to Andy Burnham
Give him Boris’ job
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Post by Gary Hackett on Oct 18, 2020 17:43:44 GMT
Its not really mysterious is it. All the current measures we as a society are taking will have a massive impact on reducing levels of flu, maybe even bringing it down close to zero because as you know the flu is nowhere near as infectious as covid. You may well be right but can you please point me to some evidence that the flu is less infectious than C19, I’d a quick google and it seems that they are equally infectious? 2009 flu had an R number around 1.6, Covid 19 has an R number of around 2.6 I'm sure ESOF will he able to help with this. EDIT: influenza was 1.28 (IQR: 1.19–1.37). Four studies reported six novel influenza R values. Covid 19 was estimated as having an R number of 3 when it was unchecked just before lockdown. So actually looks like Covid is much more contagious than I first thought.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Oct 18, 2020 17:51:54 GMT
You may well be right but can you please point me to some evidence that the flu is less infectious than C19, I’d a quick google and it seems that they are equally infectious? 2009 flu had an R number around 1.6, Covid 19 has an R number of around 2.6 I'm sure ESOF will he able to help with this. EDIT: influenza was 1.28 (IQR: 1.19–1.37). Four studies reported six novel influenza R values. So actually looks like Covid is much more contagious than I first thought. NY times and other articles I’ve read stating that flu in a pandemic season just as contagious as C19. Not an expert but I’ve read lots of other stuff stating C19 may/could be more infectious than flu without providing any evidence. If masks, better sanitation, etc are killing off flu why aren’t they killing of C19 given they are related viruses and spread exactly the same way?
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Post by salopstick on Oct 18, 2020 17:54:13 GMT
2009 flu had an R number around 1.6, Covid 19 has an R number of around 2.6 I'm sure ESOF will he able to help with this. EDIT: influenza was 1.28 (IQR: 1.19–1.37). Four studies reported six novel influenza R values. So actually looks like Covid is much more contagious than I first thought. NY times and other articles I’ve read stating that flu in a pandemic season just as contagious as C19. Not an expert but I’ve read lots of other stuff stating C19 may/could be more infectious than flu without providing any evidence. If masks, better sanitation, etc are killing off flu why aren’t they killing of C19 given they are related viruses and spread exactly the same way? Flu reading as covid on the tests is killing off flu
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Oct 18, 2020 17:59:11 GMT
NY times and other articles I’ve read stating that flu in a pandemic season just as contagious as C19. Not an expert but I’ve read lots of other stuff stating C19 may/could be more infectious than flu without providing any evidence. If masks, better sanitation, etc are killing off flu why aren’t they killing of C19 given they are related viruses and spread exactly the same way? Flu reading as covid on the tests is killing off flu Yes that would be my thoughts as well. Can’t see how masks etc have killed off flu but have done little to prevent C19 spreading despite them being spread in exactly the same way
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Post by whatsashig on Oct 18, 2020 18:02:02 GMT
Well if you don't want a vaccine or to participate in public health measures find a cave and leave the rest of us to enjoy the benefits of civilisation and stop trying to impose your paranoid, anti-science, libertarian nightmare on those of us who actually want to live in a world that takes public health seriously. You're not our saviour rousing us from a WHO inspired waking dream - you're a gullible pratt who's sucked up every bit of conspiracy bullshit churned out on alt right websites and will happily post bomb us back into the stone age in pursuit of some fantasy libertarian utopia that in reality would be an uncivilised, dog eat dog shit hole. Even if your conspiracy theories were true (they aren't) I'd happily carry on believing them because your alternative reality is actually far worse. I'm not imposing anything. You're welcome to your opinion, even of it is full of strawman nonsense. If anything, you are the one who consistently tries to bully people into not asking valid questions with aggression and insults. It's not going to work fella. Pandemic scams have been tried before with swine flu. Yet you really think it's not possible to do again? redirect.viglink.com/?key=01868f92fbfbe96767e14b485522ccc4&subId=800541&u=https%3A//web.archive.org/web/20200506131506/https%3A//www.forbes.com/2010/02/05/world-health-organization-swine-flu-pandemic-opinions-contributors-michael-fumento.htmlWhat was your opinion on how society was run before all of this, I get the suspicion cus ££££ talk but where you’re coming from I don’t get. Is it really possible that what you vaguely elude to is true, the illusion is like the nazis saying Jews own all the wealth
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Post by andystokey on Oct 18, 2020 18:04:35 GMT
The most remarkable and under reported symptom of this Covid crisis seems to be how it's affected the brains of those that don't have it.
🙄
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Post by Gary Hackett on Oct 18, 2020 18:04:52 GMT
2009 flu had an R number around 1.6, Covid 19 has an R number of around 2.6 I'm sure ESOF will he able to help with this. EDIT: influenza was 1.28 (IQR: 1.19–1.37). Four studies reported six novel influenza R values. So actually looks like Covid is much more contagious than I first thought. If masks, better sanitation, etc are killing off flu why aren’t they killing of C19 given they are related viruses and spread exactly the same way? Because Covid is not flu, it's more contagious which is my whole point. Jesus.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Oct 18, 2020 18:13:06 GMT
From the Who official site:
The reproductive number – the number of secondary infections generated from one infected individual – is understood to be between 2 and 2.5 for COVID-19 virus, higher than for influenza.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Oct 18, 2020 18:27:13 GMT
From the Who official site: The reproductive number – the number of secondary infections generated from one infected individual – is understood to be between 2 and 2.5 for COVID-19 virus, higher than for influenza. The WHO! Not exactly credible now are they
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Post by partickpotter on Oct 18, 2020 18:28:52 GMT
Fair play to Andy Burnham Give him Boris’ job I’m sure the idea hasn’t occurred to him.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Oct 18, 2020 18:28:59 GMT
If masks, better sanitation, etc are killing off flu why aren’t they killing of C19 given they are related viruses and spread exactly the same way? Because Covid is not flu, it's more contagious which is my whole point. Jesus. You seem to be quite a sanctimonious and insecure individual
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Post by Gary Hackett on Oct 18, 2020 18:30:56 GMT
From the Who official site: The reproductive number – the number of secondary infections generated from one infected individual – is understood to be between 2 and 2.5 for COVID-19 virus, higher than for influenza. The WHO! Not exactly credible now are they And at this point I think it's best I leave you to quoting nonsense from the Daily Mail or some random bloke on twitter. You're extremely pig headed, there's no point trying to have a sensible argument with you.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Oct 18, 2020 18:35:45 GMT
I think there's two separate discussions here. 1. Is Burnham right to hold out? 2. Why are the Government making it an issue in the first place, when the data doesn't warrant it? I kind of need a decent answer to question number 2 before I can even consider answering question 1. There's no chicken and egg situation here. I think that's what The Telegraph piece is alluding to. Either the government are 1. Playing political games. 2. Just plain wrong. 3. Are actually correct but aren't releasing the data to support this. Why are regional lockdowns up for discussion and negotiations They are either warranted or they are not I agree. If action is being taken at a national level there should be clear criteria and consistent rules - the whole idea of negotiating is ridiculous and subject to political bias (for example Tory gyms are safe, Labour ones aren't). The alternative is to devolve responsibility to local authorities and have them take full responsibility for their actions - which personally I think is what should happen. What works in urban Manchester probably won't in rural Devon - leave it to the people who understand their patch to do what is best. Especially when you have the most incompetent and corrupt government in living memory.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Oct 18, 2020 18:36:00 GMT
From CDC
During the 2019-2020 influenza season, CDC estimates that influenza was associated with 38 million illnesses, 18 million medical visits, 405,000 hospitalizations, and 22,000 deaths. The influenza burden was higher in young children (0-4 years) and adults (18-49 years) compared with a recent season with the 2017-2018 season, a recent season with high severity, and provides evidence to support how severe seasonal influenza can be at any age.
So it appears to me (a layman) that flu is potentially just as dangerous to the general population as C19
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Oct 18, 2020 18:37:22 GMT
The WHO! Not exactly credible now are they And at this point I think it's best I leave you to quoting nonsense from the Daily Mail or some random bloke on twitter. You're extremely pig headed, there's no point trying to have a sensible argument with you. This from the lad that shamefully/disgracefully accused others of putting their own financial well being ahead of community health without a scintilla of proof
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Post by zerps on Oct 18, 2020 18:39:19 GMT
Fair play to Andy Burnham Give him Boris’ job I’m sure the idea hasn’t occurred to him. Northern revolution All the people that think Stokes in the midlands will be screwed 😂
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Post by henry on Oct 18, 2020 18:51:39 GMT
The disproportionately and extent of the restrictions are a cause for concern/questioning alright Not according to the covid lot on here. It’s not at all crazy to believe we are being lied too The gall of some to call people who think outside the box flat earther's has amused me.
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Post by Davef on Oct 18, 2020 18:58:53 GMT
WTAF is this? Mind you, judging by the replies and quote tweets it hasn't got the reaction they were presumably hoping for or expecting.
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