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Post by ColonelMustard on Sept 16, 2020 8:53:44 GMT
If you think big pharma is a good thing you're living in denial. It's a business remember... they are there to make money and keep you coming back,a bit like drug dealers only apparently it's legal to get kids addicted to prescription drugs . Maybe you should take things more seriously when discussing these matters and not just try and make a mockery of important issues that effect us all. Or maybe you should stop telling people what they can/can't do or think? I'm not going to base my moral judgment on anything purely and simply on the basis of "one of the biggest and least intelligent knobs on the oatcake told me to". Bloody pathetic (and thick)....."Don't listen to big pharma or the govt. They're trying to cobtrol you, what you should do instead is exactly what I tell you to do and think instead". So thick you don't even notice it do you: "You have to agree with me or otherwise you're just being controlled and manipulated by people". Yet another thicko who has zero self awareness Theres room between both of you. The conspiracy theories right now are fodder for the vacuum of trust. Trust that has been lost Where that vacuum of trust is a consequence of critical thinking, skepticism remains regarding the counter narratives. Where it is a result of contrian or paranoid tendencies, then counter narratives are soaked up like a sponge. But big pharmas lobbying money and sweeteners to doctors sure do buy a lot of opium addicts.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Sept 16, 2020 9:04:34 GMT
The Illuminati/New World Order/Technocrats/(spacesaver, so whichever new trendy buzzphrase happens to crop up on youtube over the next few weeks can be inserted here) kidnapped him so Obama, Bill Clinton and Bill Gates could sacrifice him to Moloch while they all holidayed on Epstein island, whilst toasting their gazillion dollar big pharma deal that we've all be conned into, after the WHO force us to go to their evil underground criminal lair for vaccines with nanobots and microchips in them.
It's how the world works mate, keep up.
If you think big pharma is a good thing you're living in denial. It's a business remember... they are there to make money and keep you coming back,a bit like drug dealers only apparently it's legal to get kids addicted to prescription drugs . Maybe you should take things more seriously when discussing these matters and not just try and make a mockery of important issues that effect us all. And if you want to take it all that seriously go to a medical/political/financial chat site. Or maybe one that specialises in the David Icke Alien lizard elite. However if you do prefer a football chat site for expounding such views then you shouldn't really be that surprised if there are a few around who want to take the piss.
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Post by starkiller on Sept 16, 2020 9:23:59 GMT
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Post by salopstick on Sept 16, 2020 9:29:24 GMT
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Sept 16, 2020 10:03:00 GMT
It is not normal - at least not in the western world - for health workers to contract the disease of the people they are caring for. It is believed over 500 care workers in the UK died after contracting Covid - mainly the result of the high viral load from being in proximity to their patients. Were they 'conned' to death?
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 16, 2020 10:47:16 GMT
Issue is it’s been inevitable since the government adopted for populist choice , pubs , travel etc just certain to bring it back upon us and history suggests they close down too late again , in two weeks it will be running riot , news the time to make the unpopular decisions . Start by closing the pubs this weekend . Stating the obvious but why are the government still listening to "Scientific advisors". The abundance of frankly cringe worthy cluelessness that these "Scientific advisors" have demonstrated this year has become utterly comical. The epidemiologists in particular are hysterical. They've dedicated their entire lives to learning about viruses and pandemics and earned significant sums in the process and yet we finally call upon their knowledge, they have absolutely no idea what to do or say...apart from the standard "test more" and "if numbers keep rising then we need another lockdown" and compiling a bunch of useless graphs. The only one who seems to have shown any sense of clear direction and substance is Anders Tegnell who appears to have played a total masterstroke. Meanwhile all the other "Scientists"/"epidemiologists" around the world continue to look like complete plonkers and change their tune more times than a dodgy record player. How the fuck have these people been earning a living. They've had an absolute shocker on every possible level. All the public health decisions in the UK have been made by politicians. The scientific advisers do just that - advise. Originally the scientific advice was to lock down quickly before the infections got out of control. This was overruled by the government, on the advice of Dominic Cummings, and the government went for a herd immunity strategy. When the modelling from Imperial came through they made a complete about face and went for lock down - by which time it was too late. We ended up with the worst of both worlds - high death rates due to a government imposed kamikaze herd immunity strategy coupled with the economic damage associated with a longer lock down as a result of it being implemented too late. This was all the fault of the government - not their advisers. The Swedish system is completely different. The Swedish government have delegated public health decisions to a public official - who at the moment happens to be Anders Tegnell. While they can appoint and sack the person in charge they do not interfere with their decisions. As a result there has been no flip flopping and the message to the Swedish public has been consistent and clear. Starkiller isn't going to like this but Sweden's approach is textbook Technocratic - they have experts in their field making decisions rather than have rank amateurs making political rather than pragmatic decisions. Whether Tegnell's herd immunity strategy prove to be the right approach (for Sweden at least) remains to be seen. Compared with their near neighbours (Norway, Finland, Denmark) so far it's been a disaster. Their infection rates are now similar and the economic impact has been on a par with their neighbours - even though they imposed lock downs and Sweden didn't. However their death rates have been 10 times higher and it's far too early to say whether they have actually achieved herd immunity. The time to make a judgement will be next May after the second wave has hit. The other factor in Sweden's approach - which Tegnell himself has supported - is the reliance on people behaving responsibly which is what the law abiding Swedes have been doing. To a large extent Sweden has done what other countries have done in terms of limiting social contact and changing behaviour - it's just that they have done it without compunction. Sweden is in a good place in terms of being able to trust it's people to behave responsibly. Unfortunately it's quite clear this isn't an option over here.
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Post by salopstick on Sept 16, 2020 10:49:48 GMT
It is not normal - at least not in the western world - for health workers to contract the disease of the people they are caring for. It is believed over 500 care workers in the UK died after contracting Covid - mainly the result of the high viral load from being in proximity to their patients. Were they 'conned' to death? It is “believed” There is your answer. What are the ages of the care workers? What is the underlying conditions of the care workers? What are the other circumstances? We are steady know the figures have been wrong elsewhere and we also know there is a difference between dying of covid and dying with covid. How many of these died but had had a positive test months earlier. The virus may be real but the reactions and control measures are very much exaggerated Are masks helping or not helping. What are the risks of not getting enough clean oxygen because of a mask Lots and lots of questions we don’t seem to get many answers People are making huge amounts of money whilst other industries go to the wall Liberties are being lost. Rules are complex and hypocritical Governments all around the world are using this for other agendas. The rule of 6 FFS means my brother can come round with half his family but take the virus back to the other half Fucking ridiculous and yes a con job Mask nazis, covid Marshalls. The opposition are complicit as they are aiding the government by the lack of opposition Grass your neighbours up and hope they will still borrow you some sugar when you run out You are quite correct ITS NOT NORMAL
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 16, 2020 10:52:50 GMT
It is not normal - at least not in the western world - for health workers to contract the disease of the people they are caring for. It is believed over 500 care workers in the UK died after contracting Covid - mainly the result of the high viral load from being in proximity to their patients. Were they 'conned' to death? It is “believed” There is your answer. What are the ages of the care workers? What is the underlying conditions of the care workers? What are the other circumstances? We are steady know the figures have been wrong elsewhere and we also know there is a difference between dying of covid and dying with covid. How many of these died but had had a positive test months earlier. The virus may be real but the reactions and control measures are very much exaggerated Are masks helping or not helping. What are the risks of not getting enough clean oxygen because of a mask Lots and lots of questions we don’t seem to get many answers People are making huge amounts of money whilst other industries go to the wall Liberties are being lost. Rules are complex and hypocritical Governments all around the world are using this for other agendas. The rule of 6 FFS means my brother can come round with half his family but take the virus back to the other half Fucking ridiculous and yes a con job Mask nazis, covid Marshalls. The opposition are complicit as they are aiding the government by the lack of opposition Grass your neighbours up and hope they will still borrow you some sugar when you run out You are quite correct ITS NOT NORMAL Psychopathic.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Sept 16, 2020 11:11:13 GMT
It is not normal - at least not in the western world - for health workers to contract the disease of the people they are caring for. It is believed over 500 care workers in the UK died after contracting Covid - mainly the result of the high viral load from being in proximity to their patients. Were they 'conned' to death? It is “believed” There is your answer. What are the ages of the care workers? What is the underlying conditions of the care workers? What are the other circumstances? We are steady know the figures have been wrong elsewhere and we also know there is a difference between dying of covid and dying with covid. How many of these died but had had a positive test months earlier. The virus may be real but the reactions and control measures are very much exaggerated Are masks helping or not helping. What are the risks of not getting enough clean oxygen because of a mask Lots and lots of questions we don’t seem to get many answers People are making huge amounts of money whilst other industries go to the wall Liberties are being lost. Rules are complex and hypocritical Governments all around the world are using this for other agendas. The rule of 6 FFS means my brother can come round with half his family but take the virus back to the other half Fucking ridiculous and yes a con job Mask nazis, covid Marshalls. The opposition are complicit as they are aiding the government by the lack of opposition Grass your neighbours up and hope they will still borrow you some sugar when you run out You are quite correct ITS NOT NORMAL Sorry but in amongst that rant I must have missed the bit where you told me what other disease contracted from patients has killed 500+ care workers in the UK in less than a year.
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Post by dirtygary69 on Sept 16, 2020 11:17:41 GMT
Could they be on ventilators because they are now all available, and perhaps instead of waiting until they NEED to be put onto a ventilator, they are doing it as a matter of course on admission?
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 16, 2020 11:18:41 GMT
Trick or Treat banned? There’s always an upside!
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Sept 16, 2020 11:21:56 GMT
Stating the obvious but why are the government still listening to "Scientific advisors". The abundance of frankly cringe worthy cluelessness that these "Scientific advisors" have demonstrated this year has become utterly comical. The epidemiologists in particular are hysterical. They've dedicated their entire lives to learning about viruses and pandemics and earned significant sums in the process and yet we finally call upon their knowledge, they have absolutely no idea what to do or say...apart from the standard "test more" and "if numbers keep rising then we need another lockdown" and compiling a bunch of useless graphs. The only one who seems to have shown any sense of clear direction and substance is Anders Tegnell who appears to have played a total masterstroke. Meanwhile all the other "Scientists"/"epidemiologists" around the world continue to look like complete plonkers and change their tune more times than a dodgy record player. How the fuck have these people been earning a living. They've had an absolute shocker on every possible level. All the public health decisions in the UK have been made by politicians. The scientific advisers do just that - advise. Originally the scientific advice was to lock down quickly before the infections got out of control. This was overruled by the government, on the advice of Dominic Cummings, and the government went for a herd immunity strategy. When the modelling from Imperial came through they made a complete about face and went for lock down - by which time it was too late. We ended up with the worst of both worlds - high death rates due to a government imposed kamikaze herd immunity strategy coupled with the economic damage associated with a longer lock down as a result of it being implemented too late. This was all the fault of the government - not their advisers. The Swedish system is completely different. The Swedish government have delegated public health decisions to a public official - who at the moment happens to be Anders Tegnell. While they can appoint and sack the person in charge they do not interfere with their decisions. As a result there has been no flip flopping and the message to the Swedish public has been consistent and clear. Starkiller isn't going to like this but Sweden's approach is textbook Technocratic - they have experts in their field making decisions rather than have rank amateurs making political rather than pragmatic decisions. Whether Tegnell's herd immunity strategy prove to be the right approach (for Sweden at least) remains to be seen. Compared with their near neighbours (Norway, Finland, Denmark) so far it's been a disaster. Their infection rates are now similar and the economic impact has been on a par with their neighbours - even though they imposed lock downs and Sweden didn't. However their death rates have been 10 times higher and it's far too early to say whether they have actually achieved herd immunity. The time to make a judgement will be next May after the second wave has hit. The other factor in Sweden's approach - which Tegnell himself has supported - is the reliance on people behaving responsibly which is what the law abiding Swedes have been doing. To a large extent Sweden has done what other countries have done in terms of limiting social contact and changing behaviour - it's just that they have done it without compunction. Sweden is in a good place in terms of being able to trust it's people to behave responsibly. Unfortunately it's quite clear this isn't an option over here. Last paragraph spot on. Since June there has been little different in what the UK has been doing and what Sweden has been doing. Bars, restaurants and public places have been open, travel allowed etc - however in both countries things like public gatherings are highly restricted, visits to care homes limited no attendance at sporting events and with a strong public health messages regarding social distancing etc. The main difference it appears is - bluntly - that for the most part the Swedes have bought into it and acted responsibly whilst a significant contingent of entitled bellended Brits have not.
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Post by salopstick on Sept 16, 2020 11:28:34 GMT
It is “believed” There is your answer. What are the ages of the care workers? What is the underlying conditions of the care workers? What are the other circumstances? We are steady know the figures have been wrong elsewhere and we also know there is a difference between dying of covid and dying with covid. How many of these died but had had a positive test months earlier. The virus may be real but the reactions and control measures are very much exaggerated Are masks helping or not helping. What are the risks of not getting enough clean oxygen because of a mask Lots and lots of questions we don’t seem to get many answers People are making huge amounts of money whilst other industries go to the wall Liberties are being lost. Rules are complex and hypocritical Governments all around the world are using this for other agendas. The rule of 6 FFS means my brother can come round with half his family but take the virus back to the other half Fucking ridiculous and yes a con job Mask nazis, covid Marshalls. The opposition are complicit as they are aiding the government by the lack of opposition Grass your neighbours up and hope they will still borrow you some sugar when you run out You are quite correct ITS NOT NORMAL Sorry but in amongst that rant I must have missed the bit where you told me what other disease contracted from patients has killed 500+ care workers in the UK in less than a year. Your post did not offer evidence that covid killed them www.nursingtimes.net/news/coronavirus/covid-19-death-rate-significantly-higher-in-social-care-workers-11-05-2020/This link gives loads of doom headlines but ONS says the statistics are in line with the general working population so again it’s either bollocks or both sides are interpreting data to suit their own beliefs which again makes my opinion just as much bollocks as yours “ However, the ONS said the data “does not prove conclusively” that the higher rate of death was caused by occupational exposure to Covid-19. While the data was adjusted for age, it did not take into account other factors such as ethnicity and place of residence. Meanwhile, the ONS found that the rate of death involving Covid-19 among health workers - such as nurses, midwives, doctors, nursing assistants, paramedics, ambulance staff and hospital porters - was not "statistically different" to the general working population.” “ Of all the individual healthcare professions, a reliable rate could only be calculated for female nurses, which was 6.7 deaths involving Covid-19 per 100,000 females, equivalent to 31 deaths. Again, this rate was not found to be "statistically different" to the rate of death involving Covid-19 among females of the same age in the general population.”
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Post by dirtygary69 on Sept 16, 2020 11:31:58 GMT
All the public health decisions in the UK have been made by politicians. The scientific advisers do just that - advise. Originally the scientific advice was to lock down quickly before the infections got out of control. This was overruled by the government, on the advice of Dominic Cummings, and the government went for a herd immunity strategy. When the modelling from Imperial came through they made a complete about face and went for lock down - by which time it was too late. We ended up with the worst of both worlds - high death rates due to a government imposed kamikaze herd immunity strategy coupled with the economic damage associated with a longer lock down as a result of it being implemented too late. This was all the fault of the government - not their advisers. The Swedish system is completely different. The Swedish government have delegated public health decisions to a public official - who at the moment happens to be Anders Tegnell. While they can appoint and sack the person in charge they do not interfere with their decisions. As a result there has been no flip flopping and the message to the Swedish public has been consistent and clear. Starkiller isn't going to like this but Sweden's approach is textbook Technocratic - they have experts in their field making decisions rather than have rank amateurs making political rather than pragmatic decisions. Whether Tegnell's herd immunity strategy prove to be the right approach (for Sweden at least) remains to be seen. Compared with their near neighbours (Norway, Finland, Denmark) so far it's been a disaster. Their infection rates are now similar and the economic impact has been on a par with their neighbours - even though they imposed lock downs and Sweden didn't. However their death rates have been 10 times higher and it's far too early to say whether they have actually achieved herd immunity. The time to make a judgement will be next May after the second wave has hit. The other factor in Sweden's approach - which Tegnell himself has supported - is the reliance on people behaving responsibly which is what the law abiding Swedes have been doing. To a large extent Sweden has done what other countries have done in terms of limiting social contact and changing behaviour - it's just that they have done it without compunction. Sweden is in a good place in terms of being able to trust it's people to behave responsibly. Unfortunately it's quite clear this isn't an option over here. Last paragraph spot on. Since June there has been little different in what the UK has been doing and what Sweden has been doing. Bars, restaurants and public places have been open, travel allowed etc - however in both countries things like public gatherings are highly restricted, visits to care homes limited no attendance at sporting events and with a strong public health messages regarding social distancing etc. The main difference it appears is - bluntly - that for the most part the Swedes have bought into it and acted responsibly whilst a significant contingent of entitled bellended Brits have not. Sorry, but that last statement is utter bollocks. Even if there have been bellends over here, do you really think the WHOLE of Sweden has been accepting of it? I don't even think "significant" numbers have been that bad for it over here either. It's just something we like to do, put ourselves down and pretend we're the worst at everything and everyone else is so much better.
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Post by adri2008 on Sept 16, 2020 11:32:28 GMT
The rule of 6 shouldn't include children under 12 - like in Scotland. It's ridiculous that children can be mixing freely within school bubbles 6 hours a day yet 2 families of 4 can't meet up. Meanwhile, we can all pop down to the pub with 5 friends potentially infecting 6 households.
We will be ignoring this element of it as it makes completely no sense particularly as our children are in the same classes.
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Post by henry on Sept 16, 2020 11:37:37 GMT
Last paragraph spot on. Since June there has been little different in what the UK has been doing and what Sweden has been doing. Bars, restaurants and public places have been open, travel allowed etc - however in both countries things like public gatherings are highly restricted, visits to care homes limited no attendance at sporting events and with a strong public health messages regarding social distancing etc. The main difference it appears is - bluntly - that for the most part the Swedes have bought into it and acted responsibly whilst a significant contingent of entitled bellended Brits have not. Sorry, but that last statement is utter bollocks. Even if there have been bellends over here, do you really think the WHOLE of Sweden has been accepting of it? I don't even think "significant" numbers have been that bad for it over here either. It's just something we like to do, put ourselves down and pretend we're the worst at everything and everyone else is so much better. Spot on
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Sept 16, 2020 11:38:40 GMT
Sorry but in amongst that rant I must have missed the bit where you told me what other disease contracted from patients has killed 500+ care workers in the UK in less than a year. Your post did not offer evidence that covid killed them No - they all killed themselves and were forced to put Covid on their suicide notes by representatives of the Alien Lizard Elite. If you are denying that health workers died from Covid then you are clearly either maleavolent or mad. I'm hoping the latter - because that would help - it makes it easier for me to rationalise why someone would not give a fuck about the health and welfare of medical staff prepared to put themselves in harms way just so he doesn't have to exercise even an iota of social responsibity.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Sept 16, 2020 11:53:01 GMT
Last paragraph spot on. Since June there has been little different in what the UK has been doing and what Sweden has been doing. Bars, restaurants and public places have been open, travel allowed etc - however in both countries things like public gatherings are highly restricted, visits to care homes limited no attendance at sporting events and with a strong public health messages regarding social distancing etc. The main difference it appears is - bluntly - that for the most part the Swedes have bought into it and acted responsibly whilst a significant contingent of entitled bellended Brits have not. Sorry, but that last statement is utter bollocks. Even if there have been bellends over here, do you really think the WHOLE of Sweden has been accepting of it? I don't even think "significant" numbers have been that bad for it over here either. It's just something we like to do, put ourselves down and pretend we're the worst at everything and everyone else is so much better. Maybe - maybe not. However there was a piece by a Prof Paludain (?) in the FT a few weeks ago (sorry can't reference) which cited the cultural differences - saying that there was a far higher level of social acceptance to requests around public health in Scandinavia and this was part of the calculation behind the Swedish approach. He was particularly interested in the comparison with Benelux countries where he believed the same approach would not work because of a strong libertian streak in their culture. I realise the phrase 'entitled bellends' may be inflammatory but if you take that out of the equation I believe that libertarian tradition to exist here as well and why the Swedish approach would not be a good fit in the UK.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Sept 16, 2020 11:56:46 GMT
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Post by salopstick on Sept 16, 2020 12:11:49 GMT
Your post did not offer evidence that covid killed them No - they all killed themselves and were forced to put Covid on their suicide notes by representatives of the Alien Lizard Elite. If you are denying that health workers died from Covid then you are clearly either maleavolent or mad. I'm hoping the latter - because that would help - it makes it easier for me to rationalise why someone would not give a fuck about the health and welfare of medical staff prepared to put themselves in harms way just so he doesn't have to exercise even an iota of social responsibity. I’m not denying they died of covid but there is not enough evidence to support wether they died of covid after being healthy or died with covid despite having their own underlying conditions. Or somewhere in between. It’s not about not giving a fuck it’s about the media and government presenting information to support policy and opinion and us taking that information to make our own opinions
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Sept 16, 2020 12:21:10 GMT
No - they all killed themselves and were forced to put Covid on their suicide notes by representatives of the Alien Lizard Elite. If you are denying that health workers died from Covid then you are clearly either maleavolent or mad. I'm hoping the latter - because that would help - it makes it easier for me to rationalise why someone would not give a fuck about the health and welfare of medical staff prepared to put themselves in harms way just so he doesn't have to exercise even an iota of social responsibity. I’m not denying they died of covid but there is not enough evidence to support wether they died of covid after being healthy or died with covid despite having their own underlying conditions. Or somewhere in between. It’s not about not giving a fuck it’s about the media and government presenting information to support policy and opinion and us taking that information to make our own opinions Does it matter? You don't go to work to catch something that will kill you - whether you have an 'underlying condition' (whatever that may be) or not - and I'm not aware of any other disease that has done likewise to health workers in the modern era. Regarding your last paragrah you can certainly form your own opinions but that doesn't mean you can act on them unilaterally. That's anarchy. And as I believe you voted to put this shower of shit in then perhaps you ought to be more supportive of them.
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 16, 2020 12:40:15 GMT
It is not normal - at least not in the western world - for health workers to contract the disease of the people they are caring for. It is believed over 500 care workers in the UK died after contracting Covid - mainly the result of the high viral load from being in proximity to their patients. Were they 'conned' to death? Is that care workers or NHS staff Because if there care staff then the private companies should have to answer why there workforce were not protected better
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Sept 16, 2020 12:49:45 GMT
It is not normal - at least not in the western world - for health workers to contract the disease of the people they are caring for. It is believed over 500 care workers in the UK died after contracting Covid - mainly the result of the high viral load from being in proximity to their patients. Were they 'conned' to death? Is that care workers or NHS staff Because if there care staff then the private companies should have to answer why there workforce were not protected better Both. And whilst I agree any employer - private or public - has a primary responsibility to protect their employees the fact that they died rather undermines the contention that the virus is not really anything to worry about for people of working age.
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Post by bgreen13 on Sept 16, 2020 13:12:17 GMT
It is “believed” There is your answer. What are the ages of the care workers? What is the underlying conditions of the care workers? What are the other circumstances? We are steady know the figures have been wrong elsewhere and we also know there is a difference between dying of covid and dying with covid. How many of these died but had had a positive test months earlier. The virus may be real but the reactions and control measures are very much exaggerated Are masks helping or not helping. What are the risks of not getting enough clean oxygen because of a mask Lots and lots of questions we don’t seem to get many answers People are making huge amounts of money whilst other industries go to the wall Liberties are being lost. Rules are complex and hypocritical Governments all around the world are using this for other agendas. The rule of 6 FFS means my brother can come round with half his family but take the virus back to the other half Fucking ridiculous and yes a con job Mask nazis, covid Marshalls. The opposition are complicit as they are aiding the government by the lack of opposition Grass your neighbours up and hope they will still borrow you some sugar when you run out You are quite correct ITS NOT NORMAL Sorry but in amongst that rant I must have missed the bit where you told me what other disease contracted from patients has killed 500+ care workers in the UK in less than a year. How many health care workers have died from various other things in previous years?
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Sept 16, 2020 13:18:55 GMT
Sorry but in amongst that rant I must have missed the bit where you told me what other disease contracted from patients has killed 500+ care workers in the UK in less than a year. How many health care workers have died from various other things in previous years? It's not how many who've died from various things it's how many who've died from the same thing. If that many have died from a single notifiable infectious disease over a period of three months any time in the last 10 years then I'm happy to stand corrected.
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Post by Pedropotter on Sept 16, 2020 13:21:02 GMT
Trump is saying it's 'totally under control' That went well.....
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Sept 16, 2020 13:42:51 GMT
It is not normal - at least not in the western world - for health workers to contract the disease of the people they are caring for. It is believed over 500 care workers in the UK died after contracting Covid - mainly the result of the high viral load from being in proximity to their patients. Were they 'conned' to death? It is “believed” There is your answer. What are the ages of the care workers? What is the underlying conditions of the care workers? What are the other circumstances? We are steady know the figures have been wrong elsewhere and we also know there is a difference between dying of covid and dying with covid. How many of these died but had had a positive test months earlier. The virus may be real but the reactions and control measures are very much exaggerated Are masks helping or not helping. What are the risks of not getting enough clean oxygen because of a mask Lots and lots of questions we don’t seem to get many answers People are making huge amounts of money whilst other industries go to the wall Liberties are being lost. Rules are complex and hypocritical Governments all around the world are using this for other agendas. The rule of 6 FFS means my brother can come round with half his family but take the virus back to the other half Fucking ridiculous and yes a con job Mask nazis, covid Marshalls. The opposition are complicit as they are aiding the government by the lack of opposition Grass your neighbours up and hope they will still borrow you some sugar when you run out You are quite correct ITS NOT NORMAL Nailed it.
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Post by salopstick on Sept 16, 2020 13:46:28 GMT
Is that care workers or NHS staff Because if there care staff then the private companies should have to answer why there workforce were not protected better Both. And whilst I agree any employer - private or public - has a primary responsibility to protect their employees the fact that they died rather undermines the contention that the virus is not really anything to worry about for people of working age. However, the ONS said the data “does not prove conclusively” that the higher rate of death was caused by occupational exposure to Covid-19. While the data was adjusted for age, it did not take into account other factors such as ethnicity and place of residence. Meanwhile, the ONS found that the rate of death involving Covid-19 among health workers - such as nurses, midwives, doctors, nursing assistants, paramedics, ambulance staff and hospital porters - was not "statistically different" to the general working population.”
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Sept 16, 2020 14:16:22 GMT
Both. And whilst I agree any employer - private or public - has a primary responsibility to protect their employees the fact that they died rather undermines the contention that the virus is not really anything to worry about for people of working age. However, the ONS said the data “does not prove conclusively” that the higher rate of death was caused by occupational exposure to Covid-19. While the data was adjusted for age, it did not take into account other factors such as ethnicity and place of residence. Meanwhile, the ONS found that the rate of death involving Covid-19 among health workers - such as nurses, midwives, doctors, nursing assistants, paramedics, ambulance staff and hospital porters - was not "statistically different" to the general working population.” You missed the bit that said "The rate of death in the social care workforce was “statistically significantly higher” than that among people of the same age and sex in the general population, according to the ONS. It was also double the rate of the death in the overall general population of 20- to 64-year-olds in England and Wales". You also omitted to mention it was based on an assessment of all workers in the sector including those working in non Covid areas and those not working at all due to certain healthcare activities not being undertaken.
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Post by musik on Sept 16, 2020 14:25:45 GMT
Whether Tegnell's herd immunity strategy prove to be the right approach (for Sweden at least) remains to be seen. Compared with their near neighbours (Norway, Finland, Denmark) so far it's been a disaster. Their infection rates are now similar and the economic impact has been on a par with their neighbours - even though they imposed lock downs and Sweden didn't. However their death rates have been 10 times higher and it's far too early to say whether they have actually achieved herd immunity. The time to make a judgement will be next May after the second wave has hit. Latest These Corona press conferences and more is on tv daily here of course. Last week they definitely abandoned the idea of herd immunity since according to studies only totally 7% were immune, and 14% in the Stockholm area. Besides, you can catch this disease again. A vaccine in January with a 60% protection is what could give herd immunity, they say. Herd immunity requires at least 50-60%, according to Anders Tegnell and FHM.
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