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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Aug 15, 2020 2:09:22 GMT
Kary Mullis’ quotes about PCR need to be put into the context of what he was discussing. Mullis was talking about how in his view, HIV was not the single causative agent of AIDS and that PCR was not enough to prove it in this case because he believed there were many other retorviruses around that could also cause it. He correctly stated the PCR was only showing a nucleic acid sequence of proteins rather than the virus itself and that he believed that such sequences were not necessarily unique to HIV and therefore he was not convinced it was the single causative agent. These concerns predate whole genome sequencing, genome alignment for comparison of two viruses, bioinformatics, RNA seq which can all ease those concerns. This is the entire reason why COG-Uk are sequencing Covid samples, for evidence of changes in the virus and to keep track on the strains. What he was not saying is that PCR doesn’t work for diagnosing infectious diseases, that would be absurd being as though the patent he himself submitted in the 80s contains the following: “Various infectious diseases can be diagnosed by the presence in clinical samples of DNA characteristic of the causative microorganism. These include bacteria such as salmonella, chlamydia and nesseria. Viruses such as hepatitis B virus and parasites such as plasmodium falciparum.” The whole contention Mullis had with PCR diagnosis and HIV was that he postulated HIV was not the single cause of AIDS and thus finding HIV in patients via PCR was in his view not necessarily the smoking gun because other retroviruses wwre being missed that may have contributed. This is where sequencing earns its corn, but the sequencing we have today was not conceivable when Mullis made PCR years ago nor even when these comments 20 odd years ago. When the PCR test used for Covid was published, the samples used from suspected patients were screened against pretty much all known respiratory infections, none of them came up. It was therefore fair to say SARS-Cov2 was the likely causative agent and the patent text fully applies. The Crick are currently working on a test where a person gives a single sample and detection of a whole menu of diseases is looked for by combining amplification techniques and immediate sequencing of what was in the sample. Say someone arrives in an ICU and has the test, you will be able to say its flu or Covid and treat them appropriately extremely quickly. But it is not a statement against the fact PCR was designed for diagnostic purposes, it’s literally in the patent: patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/ec/14/bf/0a414f77b2d203/US4683195.pdfPCR was invented nearly 40 years ago now, its current state completely dwarfs Mullis’ original work and it’s been refined infinitely and diversified. Its capabilities exceed what was originally possible. Likewise the “revelation“ that PCR can’t differentiate between live and dead viruses/bacteria not a revelation at all. Food companies often go to great expense to culture positive PCR food samples because PCR will come back positive in pasteurised milk for instance, even though the bacteria are long dead. Mind you they are even finding ways of getting over this by cross linking the acid to bacteria protein if present. Protein degrades far quicker than DNA/RNA which are much more stable, thus only live bacteria nucleic acid linked to protein will amplify. But I digress. The reason you can’t feasibly do this for millions of tests is because culturing takes time, resources, trained staff and facilities. Plus the turnaround would not be anywhere near quick enough to justify doing the test. PCR is used because you can inactivate the virus for safety, whack it in a machine and get a result in a couple of hours. Yes, you might only detect fragments from a now non-infectious person, but currently it’s the best thing we have for rapid diagnostics, otherwise you’d be waiting weeks for test results which would totally defeat the object of getting a test.
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Post by PotterLog on Aug 15, 2020 2:21:43 GMT
Is it frustrating or baffling to you that most people find “evidence” like this to be, at best, weak? Why do you think it is? Is it just that you’re more intelligent/perceptive/analytical than most people? That’s entirely possible, of course. I’m just wondering. It must be very like the experience of believing in a god and not understanding how his existence isn’t evident to everybody in everything we see. I don't find it baffling at all because I know I'm going out on a limb. But in my opinion there's clear evidence in a number of official documents that indicate more than just foresight. And I'll post more. But so contrary is this concept of the deep state to what is presented on BBC news that a shift in worldview is required for right or wrong. I respect other points of view but I'll defend to the right to have my position. Although I don't claim any greater knowledge and neither do I ever engage in personal abuse. Even though I take enough. I guess I’d ask if the evidence is clear, why do you feel you’re going out on a limb? And I don’t just mean on covid, it’s a limb you regularly seem to find yourself on, where you’re reading things a wildly different way to most other people. I suppose I wonder if deep down you find yourself led to these positions by something other than evidence (to make another comparison to religion). But anyway I’ll absolutely defend your right to hold your position, no question.
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Post by starkiller on Aug 15, 2020 7:02:40 GMT
I don't find it baffling at all because I know I'm going out on a limb. But in my opinion there's clear evidence in a number of official documents that indicate more than just foresight. And I'll post more. But so contrary is this concept of the deep state to what is presented on BBC news that a shift in worldview is required for right or wrong. I respect other points of view but I'll defend to the right to have my position. Although I don't claim any greater knowledge and neither do I ever engage in personal abuse. Even though I take enough. I guess I’d ask if the evidence is clear, why do you feel you’re going out on a limb? And I don’t just mean on covid, it’s a limb you regularly seem to find yourself on, where you’re reading things a wildly different way to most other people. I suppose I wonder if deep down you find yourself led to these positions by something other than evidence (to make another comparison to religion). But anyway I’ll absolutely defend your right to hold your position, no question. The evidence is clear that there is plenty that we are not being told. The narrative runs on a public level, and also what is going on behind the scenes in global governance. Why do I read it differently? Because most people don't accept that stuff is been hidden from them, often on a monumental scale. They accept and analyse the story from the information given in the news. And they also cannot accept that nefarious purposes are frequently at play. 194 countries in 2005 signed up to an agreement which included worldwide exercise in a pandemic scenario. The scenarios are fed to the news as real and played out as real to the public. When I get chance I'll dig out the document and the relevant parts. It's called the International Health Regulations. Gates has also mentioned this as pandemic 1, and talks of pandemic 2. You are watching a movie. I remember seeing those early scenes in China, news reports, Johnson's lockdown speech, etc, and thinking that it's like a movie script, with elements of role-play. Something about it. Now I don't know what level of information governments are privacy to, but I even expect that to be limited. However the documents are available for all to see. There may be others hidden. At times, I think Trump has not only smelled a rat, or later received the memo, but has been reluctant. Nevertheless, these international agreements are pretty binding. Probably the most binding that exist anywhere. And the news sticks to the overall script as given by the WHO, even when there's evidence to the contrary and the story crumbles. You may not have noticed, but your unconscious brain has, and is not so easily fooled. Folk can take it or leave it. But when what we see matches the stuff in official documents written before, then I think there's more to know here. I await the abuse. So I'm gonna give it a rest.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Aug 15, 2020 8:35:01 GMT
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Post by henry on Aug 15, 2020 8:36:26 GMT
The evidence is clear that there is plenty that we are not being told. The narrative runs on a public level, and also what is going on behind the scenes in global governance. Why do I read it differently? Because most people don't accept that stuff is been hidden from them, often on a monumental scale. They accept and analyse the story from the information given in the news. And they also cannot accept that nefarious purposes are frequently at play. 194 countries in 2005 signed up to an agreement which included worldwide exercise in a pandemic scenario. The scenarios are fed to the news as real and played out as real to the public. When I get chance I'll dig out the document and the relevant parts. It's called the International Health Regulations. Gates has also mentioned this as pandemic 1, and talks of pandemic 2. You are watching a movie. I remember seeing those early scenes in China, news reports, Johnson's lockdown speech, etc, and thinking that it's like a movie script, with elements of role-play. Something about it. And the news sticks to the overall script as given by the WHO, even when there's evidence to the contrary and the story crumbles. You may not have noticed, but your unconscious brain has, and is not so easily fooled. Folk can take it or leave it. But when what we see matches the stuff in official documents written before, then I think there's more to know here. I await the abuse. So I'm gonna give it a rest. It would certainly make the "spaghetti growing on trees" April Fools joke seem a bit lame if this stuff all turns out to be true! He's been getting pelters for suggesting the testing and death figures are meaningless stats. Our government the other day went some way to proving he's correct by wiping off 5000 deaths at the stroke of pen.
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Post by Trouserdog on Aug 15, 2020 8:48:02 GMT
Before a simulation exercise in October 2019 that we are now living through. Still not willing to look at the exact wording from that WHO document from 2019 that tells you it's preplanned? And that's before we even get to Event 201. Agreed in 2005 by 194 out of 196 countries. Then we have Pompeo talking about a live exercise. And Trump says, you should have let us know' All the world's a stage. Mate, I've said this before, whilst I don't agree with a lot of what you're suggesting around Coronavirus I like your out of the box thinking and I have no issue with ripping up the MSM narrative and looking elsewhere for news. But it's 23:30 on a Friday night and my head hurts so if you don't mind I'll save it for another day..... 'out of the box thinking' Also known as regurgitating the deluded ramblings of numerous conspiracy theorists and passing them off as your own thoughts.
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Post by Davef on Aug 15, 2020 9:11:38 GMT
Click the link to read the entire thread.
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Post by DrGonzo on Aug 15, 2020 9:16:24 GMT
It would certainly make the "spaghetti growing on trees" April Fools joke seem a bit lame if this stuff all turns out to be true! He's been getting pelters for suggesting the testing and death figures are meaningless stats. Our government the other day went some way to proving he's correct by wiping off 5000 deaths at the stroke of pen. From what I have read on this thread the majority of people have agreed that the governments daily figures are largely meaningless. The reason he’s got ‘pelters’ as you put it is because he believes it’s due to some global conspiracy to control peoples minds rather than the far more likely but mundane reason of the Government not having a clue and pumping them out because they were under pressure from the media to do so, so they could generate headlines off it.
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Post by henry on Aug 15, 2020 9:23:31 GMT
He's been getting pelters for suggesting the testing and death figures are meaningless stats. Our government the other day went some way to proving he's correct by wiping off 5000 deaths at the stroke of pen. From what I have read on this thread the majority of people have agreed that the governments daily figures are largely meaningless. The reason he’s got ‘pelters’ as you put it is because he believes it’s due to some global conspiracy to control peoples minds rather than the far more likely but mundane reason of the Government not having a clue and pumping them out because they were under pressure from the media to do so, so they could generate headlines off it. Governments don't release figures to make themselves look shit.
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Post by Davef on Aug 15, 2020 9:40:33 GMT
www.theaustralian.com.au/inquirer/coronavirus-were-paying-for-an-epidemic-of-stupidity/news-story/b403b6fa3b30879654a80d8e5c7aa6f0A very good article about the impacts of lockdowns and how politicians have put themselves in a position they're finding difficult to get out of. Incidentally, Sky News are reporting this morning that more and more children are not receiving routine vaccinations because of a fear of going to medical centres. It's reported that the results of a poll published at the end of June showed just 27% of parents of young children said they would feel comfortable taking their child to a medical centre such as a GP surgery for vaccinations – down from 91% pre-pandemic.
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Post by starkiller on Aug 15, 2020 9:47:47 GMT
Mate, I've said this before, whilst I don't agree with a lot of what you're suggesting around Coronavirus I like your out of the box thinking and I have no issue with ripping up the MSM narrative and looking elsewhere for news. But it's 23:30 on a Friday night and my head hurts so if you don't mind I'll save it for another day..... 'out of the box thinking' Also known as regurgitating the deluded ramblings of numerous conspiracy theorists and passing them off as your own thoughts. Rubbish. It's full of my own thoughts. Just because the sources are different, doesn't stop a person pontificating on it. Same as anyone else. Or maybe it's the deluded ramblings of the WHO website. Because that's where I last quoted from?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2020 9:53:09 GMT
Mate, I've said this before, whilst I don't agree with a lot of what you're suggesting around Coronavirus I like your out of the box thinking and I have no issue with ripping up the MSM narrative and looking elsewhere for news. But it's 23:30 on a Friday night and my head hurts so if you don't mind I'll save it for another day..... 'out of the box thinking' Also known as regurgitating the deluded ramblings of numerous conspiracy theorists and passing them off as your own thoughts. Sometimes, but not always. As I said I don’t particularly agree with starkiller on this one - I’ve asked him for evidence on this very subject and haven’t really had an answer - but there are many occasions where people are called “conspiracy theorists” when actually they’re just not parroting the MSM narrative. The status quo never changes if people don’t challenge the narrative......
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Post by starkiller on Aug 15, 2020 10:23:24 GMT
'out of the box thinking' Also known as regurgitating the deluded ramblings of numerous conspiracy theorists and passing them off as your own thoughts. Sometimes, but not always. As I said I don’t particularly agree with starkiller on this one - I’ve asked him for evidence on this very subject and haven’t really had an answer - but there are many occasions where people are called “conspiracy theorists” when actually they’re just not parroting the MSM narrative. The status quo never changes if people don’t challenge the narrative...... People have demanded a grand theory of everything. I offered some suggestions. If I was simply parroting conspiracy sites, which range from aliens to Elvis, then I could set forth a grand theory from there. Also, there are many genuine, level-headed researchers trying to get to the bottom of all this and should not be dismissed as nutters in basement. You can lump it all together and dismiss it as the BBC likes to do, or sort the wood from the chaff. The BBC certainly won't be analysing the detail of these official documents, as it introduces genuine research which may genuinely undermine what they are reporting. They prefer to highlight the nutters and bleach drinkers so they can dismiss it all.
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Post by Davef on Aug 15, 2020 10:28:51 GMT
Greater Manchester (pop 4m) are averaging 3 admissions per day.
West Yorkshire (pop 1m) 1 admission every three days.
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Post by hoffgreen on Aug 15, 2020 11:37:51 GMT
The BBC now has a "Disinformation Correspondent"... And they wonder why people are questioning the narrative.... My spidey senses are off the charts.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Aug 15, 2020 12:47:00 GMT
There will be winners and loses for sure see apple and amazon v British airways but the fundamentals don’t support Armageddon or lockdown as the only alternatives some industries wont recover others will prosper I 100% agree with you there will be winners and losers, Amazon will undoubtedly increase their market share. I'm not talking Armageddon by the way,it will just be a transfer of wealth from small to medium sized businesses to the major corporations of this world.but in order for this to happen they have to cause a down turn where by small to medium sized businesses will struggle to survive.With increased uncertainty they will have no option but to sell to the multinationals at a knock down price. Don’t disagree with that interpretation.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Aug 15, 2020 12:53:24 GMT
The BBC now has a "Disinformation Correspondent"... And they wonder why people are questioning the narrative.... My spidey senses are off the charts. Why is it the BBC that's always getting it the neck on here? - are ITV, Channel 4 and Sky all saying something different just that no-one's taking any notice?
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Post by Davef on Aug 15, 2020 12:57:57 GMT
The BBC now has a "Disinformation Correspondent"... And they wonder why people are questioning the narrative.... My spidey senses are off the charts. Why is it the BBC that's always getting it the neck on here? - are ITV, Channel 4 and Sky all saying something different just that no-one's taking any notice? No, same old shit.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 15, 2020 14:06:47 GMT
The BBC on the whole do a wonderful job. Everyone complains about their bias which shows how unbiased they are.
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Post by hoffgreen on Aug 15, 2020 14:28:59 GMT
The BBC on the whole do a wonderful job. Everyone complains about their bias which shows how unbiased they are. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
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Post by yeswilko on Aug 15, 2020 14:32:49 GMT
6 music is the only beeb i have anything to do with. Channel 4 news is obviously the best
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Aug 15, 2020 14:58:24 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2020 16:51:45 GMT
Outbreak in normacott apparently... Nothing yet in the news "It's not a community or cultural thing", Abi says. I can't imagine what she means....
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Aug 15, 2020 17:10:57 GMT
The BBC on the whole do a wonderful job. Everyone complains about their bias which shows how unbiased they are. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 My reaction too.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 15, 2020 17:17:41 GMT
Indeed and it proves my point massively
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Post by lordb on Aug 15, 2020 17:26:23 GMT
Indeed and it proves my point massively I agree with Bayern Tbh I find the BBC to the right of the centre politically however given how many people say the opposite that demonstrates that's it's probably bring as in biased as it could possibly be.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 15, 2020 17:27:52 GMT
Indeed and it proves my point massively I agree with Bayern Tbh I find the BBC to the right of the centre politically however given how many people say the opposite that demonstrates that's it's probably bring as in biased as it could possibly be. Yup I think they give the right wing way too much time. They disagree. Means they're doing something right.
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Post by starkiller on Aug 15, 2020 18:02:39 GMT
I agree with Bayern Tbh I find the BBC to the right of the centre politically however given how many people say the opposite that demonstrates that's it's probably bring as in biased as it could possibly be. Yup I think they give the right wing way too much time. They disagree. Means they're doing something right. I don't think the bias of the BBC is about left or right in domestic politics. It's a globalist mouthpiece and promotes this narrow worldview. This can be reflected in its approach to issues and presentation of politics of the usual political divides. Therefore it will sometimes be pro something the Tories/Lab/Lib do, or against it. Although as these parties are increasingly globalist, whoever they think is most globalist. And you can decide for yourself which party mostly fits that agenda. Therefore to reduce it party political bias is the wrong angle to take on its bias.
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Post by yeswilko on Aug 15, 2020 18:13:40 GMT
Yup I think they give the right wing way too much time. They disagree. Means they're doing something right. I don't think the bias of the BBC is about left or right in domestic politics. It's a globalist mouthpiece and promotes this narrow worldview. This can be reflected in its approach to issues and presentation of politics of the usual political divides. Therefore it will sometimes be pro something the Tories/Lab/Lib do, or against it. Although as these parties are increasingly globalist, whoever they think is most globalist. And you can decide for yourself which party mostly fits that agenda. Therefore to reduce it party political bias is the wrong angle to take on its bias. "Proponents of globalism believe in global citizenship; that is, the problems of humanity can be resolved with democratic globalism. Democratic globalism is the idea that all people matter, no matter where they live, and that universal freedom and human rights can be fostered for all mankind." That's what the BBC are peddling these days is it?
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Post by dexta on Aug 15, 2020 18:26:02 GMT
Outbreak in normacott apparently... Nothing yet in the news "It's not a community or cultural thing", Abi says. I can't imagine what she means.... Council were opening it was going to go away. Got told last week about it only started testing now... 5 days to late
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