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Post by chad on Aug 9, 2020 20:00:25 GMT
You absolutely can have it both ways. I'd like my government to spend my tax contributions on PPE providers who have been both properly vetted and obtained a contract through an open competitive tendering process. So, companies who can be relied on to supply NHS appropriate PPE, because they have a record of doing so, plus ones which aren't gifted contracts because they are mates or Tory Party donors. In other words, no ferry-less ferry companies with Ts & Cs from the Wing Yip Chinese takeaway please. So had BJ, MH et al stood up in parliament, at a daily press briefing etc and when asked the question why haven’t the front line workers got adequate PPE. You would have been quite happy with a response of. “ sorry we have to go through the proper tender process which will take 30 days to get the tenders in. It will then take at least another week or so to properly vet them. We expect the first delivery in approximately 2 months time” Not one person in the country would have said yeah ok as long as you are following the procedures to the letter we are quite happy for the NHS workers to be left with no PPE Wasting time talking logic to some on here mate. They’ve just got an anti government stance and do nothing but scour twitter for any little whinge they can find
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Post by WorkingclassHero on Aug 9, 2020 20:01:25 GMT
A village is missing its idiot There's people on this very thread criticising others for going and enjoying themselves. If they are social distancing, wearing a mask and behaving responsibly fine. If they are one of these bell ends on the beaches then they deserve all the abuse they get
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Post by chad on Aug 9, 2020 20:04:15 GMT
Still not sensible though is it? Aye. Social distancing seems to have gone out of the window in the main. You can't help but think it'd be a better picture if people actually acted with a bit of caution. Pubs seem the biggest issue though. Maybe I’m using the wrong pubs but honestly all the ones I’ve been in lately seem to be complying quite well with the regulations. (Admittedly I’m not frequenting the pubs favoured by younger people )
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 9, 2020 20:06:22 GMT
Aye. Social distancing seems to have gone out of the window in the main. You can't help but think it'd be a better picture if people actually acted with a bit of caution. Pubs seem the biggest issue though. Maybe I’m using the wrong pubs but honestly all the ones I’ve been in lately seem to be complying quite well with the regulations. (Admittedly I’m not frequenting the pubs favoured by younger people ) That doesn't surprise and where I think the local authorities have got to get a grip. There's places that clearly aren't following the rules. They've got to be sanctioned and sanctioned hard.
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Post by Davef on Aug 9, 2020 21:27:42 GMT
Do as I say, not as I do. The arrogance of these people is breathtaking.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Aug 9, 2020 21:50:44 GMT
Do as I say, not as I do. The arrogance of these people is breathtaking. Blimey ... you have never heard of 'Cummings Law' before Dave? They have nothing but contempt for us.
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Post by yeswilko on Aug 9, 2020 22:02:26 GMT
Playing Hockey is an extremely effective way of testing your eyesight
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Post by starkiller on Aug 9, 2020 22:09:18 GMT
There's people on this very thread criticising others for going and enjoying themselves. If they are social distancing, wearing a mask and behaving responsibly fine. If they are one of these bell ends on the beaches then they deserve all the abuse they get Disproportionate.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 10, 2020 6:31:07 GMT
You absolutely can have it both ways. I'd like my government to spend my tax contributions on PPE providers who have been both properly vetted and obtained a contract through an open competitive tendering process. So, companies who can be relied on to supply NHS appropriate PPE, because they have a record of doing so, plus ones which aren't gifted contracts because they are mates or Tory Party donors. In other words, no ferry-less ferry companies with Ts & Cs from the Wing Yip Chinese takeaway please. So had BJ, MH et al stood up in parliament, at a daily press briefing etc and when asked the question why haven’t the front line workers got adequate PPE. You would have been quite happy with a response of. “ sorry we have to go through the proper tender process which will take 30 days to get the tenders in. It will then take at least another week or so to properly vet them. We expect the first delivery in approximately 2 months time” Not one person in the country would have said yeah ok as long as you are following the procedures to the letter we are quite happy for the NHS workers to be left with no PPE To which the appropriate response would have been, you wargamed a pandemic back in 2016 in Exercise Cygnus, one of the findings of which was to "make sure care providers have adequate supplies of PPE, which is currently not the case". Secondly, the government could have looked at what was happening elsewhere in the world eg Spain and Italy and, instead of not bothering to take it seriously by dodging COBRA meetings and boasting about the number of people you've been shaking hands with in a hospital ffs, then delaying lockdown for weeks, the govt could've used that time to sort out PPE. It wasn't difficult to get that aspect sorted without the kind of cock up and alleged corruption we're now seeing exposed.
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Post by Northy on Aug 10, 2020 7:46:11 GMT
You absolutely can have it both ways. I'd like my government to spend my tax contributions on PPE providers who have been both properly vetted and obtained a contract through an open competitive tendering process. So, companies who can be relied on to supply NHS appropriate PPE, because they have a record of doing so, plus ones which aren't gifted contracts because they are mates or Tory Party donors. In other words, no ferry-less ferry companies with Ts & Cs from the Wing Yip Chinese takeaway please. So had BJ, MH et al stood up in parliament, at a daily press briefing etc and when asked the question why haven’t the front line workers got adequate PPE. You would have been quite happy with a response of. “ sorry we have to go through the proper tender process which will take 30 days to get the tenders in. It will then take at least another week or so to properly vet them. We expect the first delivery in approximately 2 months time” Not one person in the country would have said yeah ok as long as you are following the procedures to the letter we are quite happy for the NHS workers to be left with no PPE Exactly, you have to wonder what some people say and don't think or are great in picking things apart in hindsight
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teflondel
Youth Player
Plumbing services
Posts: 318
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Post by teflondel on Aug 10, 2020 7:51:26 GMT
So had BJ, MH et al stood up in parliament, at a daily press briefing etc and when asked the question why haven’t the front line workers got adequate PPE. You would have been quite happy with a response of. “ sorry we have to go through the proper tender process which will take 30 days to get the tenders in. It will then take at least another week or so to properly vet them. We expect the first delivery in approximately 2 months time” Not one person in the country would have said yeah ok as long as you are following the procedures to the letter we are quite happy for the NHS workers to be left with no PPE To which the appropriate response would have been, you wargamed a pandemic back in 2016 in Exercise Cygnus, one of the findings of which was to "make sure care providers have adequate supplies of PPE, which is currently not the case". Secondly, the government could have looked at what was happening elsewhere in the world eg Spain and Italy and, instead of not bothering to take it seriously by dodging COBRA meetings and boasting about the number of people you've been shaking hands with in a hospital ffs, then delaying lockdown for weeks, the govt could've used that time to sort out PPE. It wasn't difficult to get that aspect sorted without the kind of cock up and alleged corruption we're now seeing exposed. So again had the government said that from a hypothetical war game scenario we are now going to remove 200m a year from the nhs budget to stock pile PPE in case there is a world wide pandemic Get real you know damn well what would have been said about wasting funds. Could we have gone into lockdown earlier? Yes. Would it have saved thousands of lives? Maybe but it is hypothetical and I’m sure many things would be done differently with hindsight
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Post by Northy on Aug 10, 2020 7:54:35 GMT
So had BJ, MH et al stood up in parliament, at a daily press briefing etc and when asked the question why haven’t the front line workers got adequate PPE. You would have been quite happy with a response of. “ sorry we have to go through the proper tender process which will take 30 days to get the tenders in. It will then take at least another week or so to properly vet them. We expect the first delivery in approximately 2 months time” Not one person in the country would have said yeah ok as long as you are following the procedures to the letter we are quite happy for the NHS workers to be left with no PPE To which the appropriate response would have been, you wargamed a pandemic back in 2016 in Exercise Cygnus, one of the findings of which was to "make sure care providers have adequate supplies of PPE, which is currently not the case". Secondly, the government could have looked at what was happening elsewhere in the world eg Spain and Italy and, instead of not bothering to take it seriously by dodging COBRA meetings and boasting about the number of people you've been shaking hands with in a hospital ffs, then delaying lockdown for weeks, the govt could've used that time to sort out PPE. It wasn't difficult to get that aspect sorted without the kind of cock up and alleged corruption we're now seeing exposed. NHS procurement departments procure their equipment, very well paid procurement managers obviously not doing what they are paid to do. The whole world was after PPE it was as rare as rocking horse shit. These COBRA meetings are not regularly attended by PM's, they are chaired by someone else who reports into the PM of the findings. Weeks? we were only a week behind France, 2 weeks after Italy's national lockdown, yes they should have been quicker in hindsight, but they were being advised to go for herd immunity at the start, which in hindsight was wrong.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 10, 2020 8:08:00 GMT
To which the appropriate response would have been, you wargamed a pandemic back in 2016 in Exercise Cygnus, one of the findings of which was to "make sure care providers have adequate supplies of PPE, which is currently not the case". Secondly, the government could have looked at what was happening elsewhere in the world eg Spain and Italy and, instead of not bothering to take it seriously by dodging COBRA meetings and boasting about the number of people you've been shaking hands with in a hospital ffs, then delaying lockdown for weeks, the govt could've used that time to sort out PPE. It wasn't difficult to get that aspect sorted without the kind of cock up and alleged corruption we're now seeing exposed. So again had the government said that from a hypothetical war game scenario we are now going to remove 200m a year from the nhs budget to stock pile PPE in case there is a world wide pandemic Get real you know damn well what would have been said about wasting funds. Could we have gone into lockdown earlier? Yes. Would it have saved thousands of lives? Maybe but it is hypothetical and I’m sure many things would be done differently with hindsight Which would be fine if it weren't for the fact that it wasn't a hypothetical scenario. Doctors and scientists have been warning that a global pandemic was overdue for many years. Obama talked about it back in 2014! Why do you think the government wargamed just such a scenario three years ago? The scandal is that they buried the report and refused to act on the findings, which is why we are now where we are, with hundreds of dead frontline care workers. Funny how finding the money to shut the stable door after the horse has bolted has not been quite such an issue. Secondly, spending money on protective equipment and generally making sure the Health Service was prepared in just such an eventuality was precisely what the German government had done. One of the many reasons why their death toll is far lower than ours. Finally, I well remember many of the right-wingers on here (Northy among them ironically) banging on about how not preparing for a financial crisis was a lamentable lack of foresight by the last Labour administration. Talk about having your cake and eating it!
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Post by Northy on Aug 10, 2020 8:18:43 GMT
So again had the government said that from a hypothetical war game scenario we are now going to remove 200m a year from the nhs budget to stock pile PPE in case there is a world wide pandemic Get real you know damn well what would have been said about wasting funds. Could we have gone into lockdown earlier? Yes. Would it have saved thousands of lives? Maybe but it is hypothetical and I’m sure many things would be done differently with hindsight Which would be fine if it weren't for the fact that it wasn't a hypothetical scenario. Doctors and scientists have been warning that a global pandemic was overdue for many years. Obama talked about it back in 2014! Why do you think the government wargamed just such a scenario three years ago? The scandal is that they buried the report and refused to act on the findings, which is why we are now where we are, with hundreds of dead frontline care workers. Funny how finding the money to shut the stable door after the horse has bolted has not been quite such an issue. Secondly, spending money on protective equipment and generally making sure the Health Service was prepared in just such an eventuality was precisely what the German government had done. One of the many reasons why their death toll is far lower than ours. Finally, I well remember many of the right-wingers on here (Northy among them ironically) banging on about how not preparing for a financial crisis was a lamentable lack of foresight by the last Labour administration. Talk about having your cake and eating it! You can't have your cake and eat it if the country has had no spare money since the last administration left it in massive debt, and as you've pointed out previously that debt has now increased, so spending money on stockpiling PPE, which has a shelf life, instead of spending it on front line services like cancer treatment and getting waiting times down would no doubt have been a bad thing by some people who are wonderful in hindsight, as you said, you can't have your cake and eat it.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Aug 10, 2020 8:54:16 GMT
Which would be fine if it weren't for the fact that it wasn't a hypothetical scenario. Doctors and scientists have been warning that a global pandemic was overdue for many years. Obama talked about it back in 2014! Why do you think the government wargamed just such a scenario three years ago? The scandal is that they buried the report and refused to act on the findings, which is why we are now where we are, with hundreds of dead frontline care workers. Funny how finding the money to shut the stable door after the horse has bolted has not been quite such an issue. Secondly, spending money on protective equipment and generally making sure the Health Service was prepared in just such an eventuality was precisely what the German government had done. One of the many reasons why their death toll is far lower than ours. Finally, I well remember many of the right-wingers on here (Northy among them ironically) banging on about how not preparing for a financial crisis was a lamentable lack of foresight by the last Labour administration. Talk about having your cake and eating it! You can't have your cake and eat it if the country has had no spare money since the last administration left it in massive debt, and as you've pointed out previously that debt has now increased, so spending money on stockpiling PPE, which has a shelf life, instead of spending it on front line services like cancer treatment and getting waiting times down would no doubt have been a bad thing by some people who are wonderful in hindsight, as you said, you can't have your cake and eat it. Quite simply not true and your attempts at deflection are pathetic.
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Post by maxplonk on Aug 10, 2020 9:39:01 GMT
Which would be fine if it weren't for the fact that it wasn't a hypothetical scenario. Doctors and scientists have been warning that a global pandemic was overdue for many years. Obama talked about it back in 2014! Why do you think the government wargamed just such a scenario three years ago? The scandal is that they buried the report and refused to act on the findings, which is why we are now where we are, with hundreds of dead frontline care workers. Funny how finding the money to shut the stable door after the horse has bolted has not been quite such an issue. Secondly, spending money on protective equipment and generally making sure the Health Service was prepared in just such an eventuality was precisely what the German government had done. One of the many reasons why their death toll is far lower than ours. Finally, I well remember many of the right-wingers on here (Northy among them ironically) banging on about how not preparing for a financial crisis was a lamentable lack of foresight by the last Labour administration. Talk about having your cake and eating it! You can't have your cake and eat it if the country has had no spare money since the last administration left it in massive debt, and as you've pointed out previously that debt has now increased, so spending money on stockpiling PPE, which has a shelf life, instead of spending it on front line services like cancer treatment and getting waiting times down would no doubt have been a bad thing by some people who are wonderful in hindsight, as you said, you can't have your cake and eat it. "The UK’s plan for a disaster appeared to contain no plans for disasters."
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Post by Northy on Aug 10, 2020 9:59:05 GMT
You can't have your cake and eat it if the country has had no spare money since the last administration left it in massive debt, and as you've pointed out previously that debt has now increased, so spending money on stockpiling PPE, which has a shelf life, instead of spending it on front line services like cancer treatment and getting waiting times down would no doubt have been a bad thing by some people who are wonderful in hindsight, as you said, you can't have your cake and eat it. "The UK’s plan for a disaster appeared to contain no plans for disasters."That's a very good read, thanks. Some interesting extracts to support and kick the government, interesting to see (and we'd already heard that other countries had done it) France looking after itself again, why did we ever bale them out in World Wars Public Health England, the quango created under David Cameron, had let its stockpiles of PPE and other supplies decline. But it had put in place longstanding emergency priority orders to key suppliers to be able to top these up in the event of a crisis. These plans were duly activated in January, with a priority order for millions of units to a factory in France — well before the crisis hit the UK in full force. The problem was that as the crisis hit, France requisitioned all PPE within its borders, effectively nicking the UK’s reserve to prop up its own. If a league table were drawn up of countries that most failed to contain Covid deaths, the US and the UK would be pretty near the top. Yet both spent huge amounts of money on their pandemic preparedness and flattered themselves that their experts had built the strongest defence. The UK was ranked best in the world for its ability to stage ‘rapid response to and mitigation of the spread of an epidemic’. It was given 92 points out of 100. Six weeks later, the first Covid-19 case was recorded in China and the real test began.
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Post by Northy on Aug 10, 2020 10:01:09 GMT
You can't have your cake and eat it if the country has had no spare money since the last administration left it in massive debt, and as you've pointed out previously that debt has now increased, so spending money on stockpiling PPE, which has a shelf life, instead of spending it on front line services like cancer treatment and getting waiting times down would no doubt have been a bad thing by some people who are wonderful in hindsight, as you said, you can't have your cake and eat it. Quite simply not true and your attempts at deflection are pathetic. But it is true, look at maxplonks link above, your blinkered approach is pathetic
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Aug 10, 2020 10:12:19 GMT
Quite simply not true and your attempts at deflection are pathetic. But it is true, look at maxplonks link above, your blinkered approach is pathetic Not true at all.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Aug 10, 2020 10:28:22 GMT
That's a very good read, thanks. Some interesting extracts to support and kick the government, interesting to see (and we'd already heard that other countries had done it) France looking after itself again, why did we ever bale them out in World Wars Public Health England, the quango created under David Cameron, had let its stockpiles of PPE and other supplies decline. But it had put in place longstanding emergency priority orders to key suppliers to be able to top these up in the event of a crisis. These plans were duly activated in January, with a priority order for millions of units to a factory in France — well before the crisis hit the UK in full force. The problem was that as the crisis hit, France requisitioned all PPE within its borders, effectively nicking the UK’s reserve to prop up its own. If a league table were drawn up of countries that most failed to contain Covid deaths, the US and the UK would be pretty near the top. Yet both spent huge amounts of money on their pandemic preparedness and flattered themselves that their experts had built the strongest defence. The UK was ranked best in the world for its ability to stage ‘rapid response to and mitigation of the spread of an epidemic’. It was given 92 points out of 100. Six weeks later, the first Covid-19 case was recorded in China and the real test began.Pretty piss poor disaster planning to have your contingency in another sovereign country though innit? Stress test question: 'In the event of a global pandemic are international supply chains likely to be disrupted?' "Nah - we'll be fine on that one Sir Humphrey - Next!"
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 10, 2020 10:35:15 GMT
That's a very good read, thanks. Some interesting extracts to support and kick the government, interesting to see (and we'd already heard that other countries had done it) France looking after itself again, why did we ever bale them out in World Wars Public Health England, the quango created under David Cameron, had let its stockpiles of PPE and other supplies decline. But it had put in place longstanding emergency priority orders to key suppliers to be able to top these up in the event of a crisis. These plans were duly activated in January, with a priority order for millions of units to a factory in France — well before the crisis hit the UK in full force. The problem was that as the crisis hit, France requisitioned all PPE within its borders, effectively nicking the UK’s reserve to prop up its own. If a league table were drawn up of countries that most failed to contain Covid deaths, the US and the UK would be pretty near the top. Yet both spent huge amounts of money on their pandemic preparedness and flattered themselves that their experts had built the strongest defence. The UK was ranked best in the world for its ability to stage ‘rapid response to and mitigation of the spread of an epidemic’. It was given 92 points out of 100. Six weeks later, the first Covid-19 case was recorded in China and the real test began.It is a good read. Also from it: "There is also the results of the decisions – or dithering – of those in power at the time of the disaster.The reality of this crisis though is that a decade of rigid thinking and inadequate planning left the UK with a fatal mix of feeling prepared while being anything but. That compound failure – aided and abetted by supposed experts across the world, rather than just in the UK itself – will have contributed to tens of thousands of deaths: through the needless spread of the virus and avoidable economic harm."It goes on... "Pandemic readiness received little attention at the securocrat-dominated National Security Council or from ministers, even when the plans reportedly failed a 2016 war-gaming exercise. These failures mattered more than some let on, not least because the strain of coronavirus behind the current pandemic resembles the flu virus more than some initially suggested."Before concluding: "Perhaps the most lethal mistake was the way the virus was left to run rampant through poorly equipped care homes, which had limited ability to shield their residents and often shared staff between sites. Orders to free up hospital beds to ‘protect the NHS’ saw thousands discharged and sent back without being tested for Covid. It was, it seems, no one’s job on the national stage to care about care homes. So nobody did.
The UK’s plan for a disaster appeared to contain no plans for disasters. It immediately left politicians and officials floundering without a guide. A decade of public sector cuts, an incoherent lack of communication between local and national government, and a total lack of ministerial grip — perhaps not least because several key players themselves caught the virus — worsened the crisis."
Blame the French and invoke the war, why does that sound so familiar?
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Post by OldStokie on Aug 10, 2020 10:38:23 GMT
You can't have your cake and eat it if the country has had no spare money since the last administration left it in massive debt, and as you've pointed out previously that debt has now increased, so spending money on stockpiling PPE, which has a shelf life, instead of spending it on front line services like cancer treatment and getting waiting times down would no doubt have been a bad thing by some people who are wonderful in hindsight, as you said, you can't have your cake and eat it. "The UK’s plan for a disaster appeared to contain no plans for disasters."That's a good link. The Maginot Line is a brilliant analogy. What we needed before and after the virus hit was an advisor in the mould of one of our best war generals who can think outside the box and who isn't blinded by ideological bullshit. Instead, what we had was the government's top advisor, Cummings, who was a believer in eugenics. He certainly did a good job of carrying out his philosophy. OS.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Aug 10, 2020 10:44:13 GMT
That's a good link. The Maginot Line is a brilliant analogy. What we needed before and after the virus hit was an advisor in the mould of one of our best war generals who can think outside the box and who isn't blinded by ideological bullshit. Instead, what we had was the government's top advisor, Cummings, who was a believer in eugenics. He certainly did a good job of carrying out his philosophy. OS. Yer what? I'm no fan of Cummings but compared to Kitchener's appetite for needless slaughter Toxic Dom is just playing at it (though he has still got a few years ahead of him to up his game).
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Post by Northy on Aug 10, 2020 10:51:21 GMT
That's a very good read, thanks. Some interesting extracts to support and kick the government, interesting to see (and we'd already heard that other countries had done it) France looking after itself again, why did we ever bale them out in World Wars Public Health England, the quango created under David Cameron, had let its stockpiles of PPE and other supplies decline. But it had put in place longstanding emergency priority orders to key suppliers to be able to top these up in the event of a crisis. These plans were duly activated in January, with a priority order for millions of units to a factory in France — well before the crisis hit the UK in full force. The problem was that as the crisis hit, France requisitioned all PPE within its borders, effectively nicking the UK’s reserve to prop up its own. If a league table were drawn up of countries that most failed to contain Covid deaths, the US and the UK would be pretty near the top. Yet both spent huge amounts of money on their pandemic preparedness and flattered themselves that their experts had built the strongest defence. The UK was ranked best in the world for its ability to stage ‘rapid response to and mitigation of the spread of an epidemic’. It was given 92 points out of 100. Six weeks later, the first Covid-19 case was recorded in China and the real test began.Pretty piss poor disaster planning to have your contingency in another sovereign country though innit? Stress test question: 'In the event of a global pandemic are international supply chains likely to be disrupted?' "Nah - we'll be fine on that one Sir Humphrey - Next!" In some simplistic point, yes, but the supply chain was with our next door neighbour, a long time ally, it could be here on a train through the tunnel. Lesson learnt is we need to manufacture a lot more here and stop relying on other countries manufacturing for us.
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Post by OldStokie on Aug 10, 2020 10:56:25 GMT
That's a good link. The Maginot Line is a brilliant analogy. What we needed before and after the virus hit was an advisor in the mould of one of our best war generals who can think outside the box and who isn't blinded by ideological bullshit. Instead, what we had was the government's top advisor, Cummings, who was a believer in eugenics. He certainly did a good job of carrying out his philosophy. OS. Yer what? I'm no fan of Cummings but compared to Kitchener's appetite for needless slaughter Toxic Dom is just playing at it (though he has still got a few years ahead of him to up his game). Dom has still got his secret Russian links up his sleeve so things might happen quicker than we think. Even so, he'll have to go some way to outdo Kitchener, granted. OS.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Aug 10, 2020 11:05:27 GMT
Pretty piss poor disaster planning to have your contingency in another sovereign country though innit? Stress test question: 'In the event of a global pandemic are international supply chains likely to be disrupted?' "Nah - we'll be fine on that one Sir Humphrey - Next!" In some simplistic point, yes, but the supply chain was with our next door neighbour, a long time ally, it could be here on a train through the tunnel. Lesson learnt is we need to manufacture a lot more here and stop relying on other countries manufacturing for us. It's what govts do though - we're no different. I used to have to have contingency in place for fuel supplies. You could have contracts in place with suppliers and terminals but in the event of a shortage or emergency it didn't matter what your contract said - the UK govt would be in a position to requisition all supplies for blue light and military with a 'pecking order' thereafter (food, pharmaceuticals etc) - the only true guarantee of supply was to have your own largish tanks and fill up as soon as you could take a load - and that's what we did. I wonder if anyone bothered to check what the rules were in France in the event of a state of emergency?
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Aug 10, 2020 11:11:27 GMT
Yer what? I'm no fan of Cummings but compared to Kitchener's appetite for needless slaughter Toxic Dom is just playing at it (though he has still got a few years ahead of him to up his game). Dom has still got his secret Russian links up his sleeve so things might happen quicker than we think. Even so, he'll have to go some way to outdo Kitchener, granted. OS. Don't think his Russian links are that secret are they? Everything about Dom suggests he's all about turning us int a centralised oligarchy of which Putin would be mightily proud. Our next election may well make Belarus look democratic😉
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Post by salopstick on Aug 10, 2020 11:11:56 GMT
Misery is making money
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 10, 2020 11:13:09 GMT
In some simplistic point, yes, but the supply chain was with our next door neighbour, a long time ally, it could be here on a train through the tunnel. Lesson learnt is we need to manufacture a lot more here and stop relying on other countries manufacturing for us. It's what govts do though - we're no different. I used to have to have contingency in place for fuel supplies. You could have contracts in place with suppliers and terminals but in the event of a shortage or emergency it didn't matter what your contract said - the UK govt would be in a position to requisition all supplies for blue light and military with a 'pecking order' thereafter (food, pharmaceuticals etc) - the only true guarantee of supply was to have your own largish tanks and fill up as soon as you could take a load - and that's what we did. I wonder if anyone bothered to check what the rules were in France in the event of a state of emergency? Or whether slagging them off regularly on various topics in various newspapers, aided and abetted by ministers who enjoy using dog whistle tactics fairly frequently might not actually be a wise thing to do in the long run?
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Post by maxplonk on Aug 10, 2020 11:36:14 GMT
That's a very good read, thanks. Some interesting extracts to support and kick the government, interesting to see (and we'd already heard that other countries had done it) France looking after itself again, why did we ever bale them out in World Wars Public Health England, the quango created under David Cameron, had let its stockpiles of PPE and other supplies decline. But it had put in place longstanding emergency priority orders to key suppliers to be able to top these up in the event of a crisis. These plans were duly activated in January, with a priority order for millions of units to a factory in France — well before the crisis hit the UK in full force. The problem was that as the crisis hit, France requisitioned all PPE within its borders, effectively nicking the UK’s reserve to prop up its own. If a league table were drawn up of countries that most failed to contain Covid deaths, the US and the UK would be pretty near the top. Yet both spent huge amounts of money on their pandemic preparedness and flattered themselves that their experts had built the strongest defence. The UK was ranked best in the world for its ability to stage ‘rapid response to and mitigation of the spread of an epidemic’. It was given 92 points out of 100. Six weeks later, the first Covid-19 case was recorded in China and the real test began.Your comment about France "looking after itself again" is beneath you (unless you actually agree with Patel that the French should solve the migrant issue as well). The fall of France was not helped (as you probably know) by the refusal of Churchill to send the last remaining fighter squadrons to defend France - despite a personal promise to do so. You didn't refer to the 2016 pandemic war-gaming exercise which the government reportedly failed. The full report has never been released (despite a FOI request) and is now the subject of legal action. You didn't refer to the "lethal mistake" of not looking after the care homes. I could go on.
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