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Post by Squeekster on Feb 21, 2020 10:09:49 GMT
I'd say around 20009 to maybe 2013 was an excellent period for Ryan. Better than Rio Ferdinand? I don't think so. I'm not saying that at all, he was without question one of the best CB's at the time and should of been given a go, Chris Smalling signed for UTD in July and was in the next England squad, why? Big club mentality that's why.
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Post by Olgrligm on Feb 21, 2020 11:17:08 GMT
Wenger and his London media sycophants made sure that weak minded Hodgson wouldn't dare pick him. When he did he was given Ibrahimovic to mark when the senior defender Cahill should have picked him up. It was all an exercise aimed at Hodgson showing everyone how right he'd been about Ryan all along. I am a massive Ryan fan and he was immense for us alongside Huth but the truth is he never was international level. That was an argument that was often raised, but I think the idea of 'international level' being a special step up in quality isn't really right. For him to truly be a player of international quality, the only real question would be, 'is he better than England's existing options?' The other centre backs who played for England between his debut in 2012 and his back injury 2016 were John Stones, Gary Cahill, Calum Chambers, Phil Jagielka, Phil Jones, Chris Smalling, Steven Caulker and John Terry (who retired in 2012). I would say that he stood head and shoulders above at least six of those and deserved a regular place in the national team. During that period in 2015 prior to his back injury against Leicester, where we didn't concede a single goal while he was on the pitch for a good third of the season, I would have absolutely no qualms about saying that at that point, he was England's best defender and possibly even the best defender in England. He was certainly worth more than half an hour in a friendly.
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Post by crowey on Feb 21, 2020 11:25:15 GMT
... agree 100%. He was shafred by Woy. “Ryan, just come on & mark Ibrahimovic for the last few minutes” - yeah!
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Post by Veritas on Feb 21, 2020 13:23:15 GMT
Better than Rio Ferdinand? I don't think so. I'm not saying that at all, he was without question one of the best CB's at the time and should of been given a go, Chris Smalling signed for UTD in July and was in the next England squad, why? Big club mentality that's why. With respect you were saying that, you said that for a couple of seasons Ryan was the best centre back in the league, that is simply not true. I agree Smalling is no great defender but that is not what you were saying.
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Post by Veritas on Feb 21, 2020 13:26:11 GMT
I am a massive Ryan fan and he was immense for us alongside Huth but the truth is he never was international level. That was an argument that was often raised, but I think the idea of 'international level' being a special step up in quality isn't really right. For him to truly be a player of international quality, the only real question would be, 'is he better than England's existing options?' The other centre backs who played for England between his debut in 2012 and his back injury 2016 were John Stones, Gary Cahill, Calum Chambers, Phil Jagielka, Phil Jones, Chris Smalling, Steven Caulker and John Terry (who retired in 2012). I would say that he stood head and shoulders above at least six of those and deserved a regular place in the national team. During that period in 2015 prior to his back injury against Leicester, where we didn't concede a single goal while he was on the pitch for a good third of the season, I would have absolutely no qualms about saying that at that point, he was England's best defender and possibly even the best defender in England. He was certainly worth more than half an hour in a friendly. I agree many of those chosen were no better than Ryan but at no time was he England's best defender.
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Post by dirtygary69 on Feb 21, 2020 13:27:48 GMT
I know he's always been level headed and not let things get to him but he must be secretly livid that the England career he deserved never materialised. I'm not saying he should have been a starting centre back for years on end but there was a period where he was outstanding and should have easily picked up 20 to 30 caps.
When you see the players who picked up caps then (Caulker, Chambers, Jones, Cahill etc) and those that are today (Keane, Stones etc), it makes you realise just how puddled the whole international system is. Southgate seems to have a better handle on it but his predecessors were shamelessly big-club only dickheads.
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Post by Squeekster on Feb 21, 2020 18:01:08 GMT
I'm not saying that at all, he was without question one of the best CB's at the time and should of been given a go, Chris Smalling signed for UTD in July and was in the next England squad, why? Big club mentality that's why. With respect you were saying that, you said that for a couple of seasons Ryan was the best centre back in the league, that is simply not true. I agree Smalling is no great defender but that is not what you were saying. That is simply not true? I must of been seeing a different player then in my opinion he was one of the best then, is that better? Rio ferdinand was at the end of his England career and had had an excellent one so no in that respect he isn't better but for a period of time he deserved to be ahead of most of the players that were picked ahead of him, that simply is true in my opinion.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Feb 21, 2020 19:23:11 GMT
Roy hodgson has been very clear about his dislike for stoke that what cost Ryan
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Post by rawli on Feb 22, 2020 1:59:04 GMT
Wenger and his London media sycophants made sure that weak minded Hodgson wouldn't dare pick him. When he did he was given Ibrahimovic to mark when the senior defender Cahill should have picked him up. It was all an exercise aimed at Hodgson showing everyone how right he'd been about Ryan all along. I am a massive Ryan fan and he was immense for us alongside Huth but the truth is he never was international level. He was better at that time than any of those
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Post by lordb on Feb 22, 2020 10:05:34 GMT
I'm not saying that at all, he was without question one of the best CB's at the time and should of been given a go, Chris Smalling signed for UTD in July and was in the next England squad, why? Big club mentality that's why. With respect you were saying that, you said that for a couple of seasons Ryan was the best centre back in the league, that is simply not true. I agree Smalling is no great defender but that is not what you were saying. He was the best English centre back for that time.
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Post by Cast no shadow on Feb 22, 2020 10:07:47 GMT
Between 2010 and 2015 he was England's best centre back.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Feb 22, 2020 13:37:10 GMT
Not involved today and no Tomlin for them either. Also Lindsay has not been playing because of a torn groin
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