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Post by Gods on Jan 5, 2020 13:04:02 GMT
Our FA Cup exit has been greeted by many with satisfaction and even delight on these pages.
The idea I think being that enduring the misery of a Round 4 draw without our number on a ball and a 'dead' Saturday in 3 weeks time is a small price to pay for the ability to 'concentrate on the league' whatever that means.
Seriously is there even one iota evidence to suggest that teams suffering the ignominy of a departure at the first hurdle of the nations #1 cup competition go on to do better in the league that they otherwise would?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2020 13:05:30 GMT
Winning is a habit, I don’t think a cup run does too much harm personally....
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Post by marylandstoke on Jan 5, 2020 13:20:06 GMT
Winning is a habit, I don’t think a cup run does too much harm personally.... This, exactly.
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Post by Waggy on Jan 5, 2020 13:23:10 GMT
Possibly unnecessary injuries but i can see the point of winning mentality. I wanted us to win once i was in the ground but not upset by the result. Could have been good for young players eg collins, Verlinden, Edwards and N’Goy for a win and another game.
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Post by madmickthe3rd on Jan 5, 2020 13:30:48 GMT
You could well be right but the absolute only priority this season now is surviving in the Championship and we have to be completely focused on that mission. Ryan getting back to full fitness is a key element of that survival plan. Imagine if we had to play him against a Rochdale or some other team of cloggers in their own 4th round cup final and we lost him for the remainder of the season due to injury or indeed any other key player ( if we have such a thing currently ). Any other season I would be disappointed to be knocked out this early, but this one I think it is a good thing for us.
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Post by kustokie on Jan 5, 2020 13:35:01 GMT
I don’t ever like losing, but I am over it because we need to focus on the league and building for the future “whatever that may bring”.
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Post by RAF on Jan 5, 2020 13:40:45 GMT
The only way I can understand the mentality is like someone who gets kicked in the knackers on a regular basis and decides an Enema will break up the monotony! It's fucking madness.
H
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jan 5, 2020 13:44:20 GMT
The only way I can understand the mentality is like someone who gets kicked in the knackers on a regular basis and decides an Enema will break up the monotony! It's fucking madness. H You sound like a man speaking from bitter experience! Seriously, can you tell us exactly what is it like to have an enema?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2020 13:44:48 GMT
Most of us expected Brentford to kick our asses so we had low expectations
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Post by samstokie1 on Jan 5, 2020 13:45:25 GMT
in a normal season where we wouldnt be in a relegation scrap this wouldnt be the case its just that this season we need nothing other than league form
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Post by RAF on Jan 5, 2020 13:46:52 GMT
The only way I can understand the mentality is like someone who gets kicked in the knackers on a regular basis and decides an Enema will break up the monotony! It's fucking madness. H You sound like a man speaking from bitter experience! Seriously, can you tell us exactly what is it like to have an enema? (rofl) I'm not exactly sure but I imagine it's fairly similar to speaking to you for more than a minute! ;) H
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Post by wilcopotter on Jan 5, 2020 13:52:05 GMT
Most of us expected Brentford to kick our asses so we had low expectations That’s exactly how far we’ve dropped.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Jan 5, 2020 13:53:29 GMT
What harm can a cup run do? It's a squad game now, so plenty of players to choose from to give other players a rest.
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Post by 19notbeaten72 on Jan 5, 2020 14:02:03 GMT
Winning brings confidence & builds team spirit so losing yesterday is a kick in the balls. It does not matter what team we put out or what team the opponents put out you play to win every game.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2020 14:07:48 GMT
in a normal season where we wouldnt be in a relegation scrap this wouldnt be the case its just that this season we need nothing other than league form This. If we're comfortably mid table the Cup becomes a priority. But we're in a relegation battle. We don't need any resources diverted away from the league.
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Post by nott1 on Jan 5, 2020 14:34:22 GMT
We haven't won it since 1863 it's delusional to expect anything else!
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Post by nott1 on Jan 5, 2020 14:35:56 GMT
The only way I can understand the mentality is like someone who gets kicked in the knackers on a regular basis and decides an Enema will break up the monotony! It's fucking madness. H You sound like a man speaking from bitter experience! Seriously, can you tell us exactly what is it like to have an enema? Waggy might help there!
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Post by onionman on Jan 5, 2020 14:45:44 GMT
I’m pretty sure the buzz from big cup wins has helped us in the league in the past.
That definitely happened under Pulis, Macari and Hughes and even Mick Mills in various cup competitions.
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Post by lagwafis on Jan 5, 2020 14:49:19 GMT
There are pros and cons whichever way you look at it. Didn't our 2002/03 FA Cup run (eventually losing to Chelsea in R5) go some way towards funding the signings of Akinbiyi, Crossley, Williams, Warhurst, Mills etc. who kept us up at the end of the season?
An extra £250k - £500k (gate receipts, TV money etc.) towards the wage bill can't be so easily dismissed these days, especially now we need to balance everything against FFP
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Post by StatesideStokie on Jan 5, 2020 15:02:29 GMT
Our FA Cup exit has been greeted by many with satisfaction and even delight on these pages. The idea I think being that enduring the misery of a Round 4 draw without our number on a ball and a 'dead' Saturday in 3 weeks time is a small price to pay for the ability to 'concentrate on the league' whatever that means. Seriously is there even one iota evidence to suggest that teams suffering the ignominy of a departure at the first hurdle of the nations #1 cup competition go on to do better in the league that they otherwise would? 100% agree. The FA Cup 3rd round was one of the biggest days on the football calendar when I was growing up, and it’s an absolute crime how much the competition has been devalued. Watching that game yesterday was just painful, regardless of our current predicament in the League. We used to dream about who we would pull out of the hat for the next round, and now we’re cheerfully accepting a defeat against Brentford reserves so that Joe fucking Allen is fit and firing for Millwall in the League.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2020 15:03:23 GMT
Our FA Cup exit has been greeted by many with satisfaction and even delight on these pages. The idea I think being that enduring the misery of a Round 4 draw without our number on a ball and a 'dead' Saturday in 3 weeks time is a small price to pay for the ability to 'concentrate on the league' whatever that means. Seriously is there even one iota evidence to suggest that teams suffering the ignominy of a departure at the first hurdle of the nations #1 cup competition go on to do better in the league that they otherwise would? 42GD
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Post by spitthedog on Jan 5, 2020 15:37:31 GMT
Considering the size of our squad and the fact that we might get injuries and suspensions, wouldn't it be in our interests to still be in the Cup.
Cup games would be opportunities for our many of our fringe players to play in competitive games, which they badly need and a chance to assess their qualities.
In addition, Cup runs create enthusiasm and positive energy around the club and this can only help in a relegation struggle.
As well as the much needed income of a decent draw.
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Post by leicspotter on Jan 5, 2020 15:43:09 GMT
What harm can a cup run do? It's a squad game now, so plenty of players to choose from to give other players a rest. Which is what happened, and we came up short. At the end of the season, with hindsight, we will be able to judge if MON got this right or not I love a cup run, but would also hate to see us in League 1...
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Post by mrcoke on Jan 5, 2020 15:45:30 GMT
To answer the OP question, Wigan won the cup and got relegated. Then followed Blackburn to the 3rd tier and Sunderland followed them. The lesson is league games and every point are extremely important, once you get into a downward slide it is extremely difficult to reverse. Personally I think it would have been better to win to boost moral, give squad players a game and get an extra look at them and opportunity to shine. Sportsmen need competition, and as we saw with GK error yesterday, languishing on the bench is no good for competitive form. In the olden days, players played every week for the first XI or reserves, the odd player may have gone with the first XI just in case needed. Today many very good players totally "lose it" because of lack of games, e.g. Bony at ManC., Wimmer at Spurs. Hopefully MON will organize a competitive fixture for the 4th round week end, to get a look at more players and keep them sharp, or rest those that need a rest.
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Jan 5, 2020 15:49:09 GMT
Most of us expected Brentford to kick our asses so we had low expectations Brentford Reserves
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Jan 5, 2020 16:12:31 GMT
Ask a slightly different question. If you are considering our survival chances would you prefer our relegation rivals to be having cup runs - with the additional fixtures and potential injuries - or would you rather them be out of the cup resting up etc? Or doesn't it make any difference?
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Post by Gods on Jan 5, 2020 16:16:47 GMT
Most of us expected Brentford to kick our asses so we had low expectations Brentford Reserves 16 hours of Championship football played in TOTAL between the entire Brentford starting line up and an average age of 20.1 years, barely even a reserve team. I mean we only play in 2 serious competitions, the League and the FA Cup, if we don't care about 50% of them you start to wonder why we even bother to exist at all. I find the whole thing mind blowing. And I am still waiting for this one scintilla of evidence requested in the OP that teams actually on balance perform better out than in. If I didn't say it already I am massively pissed off that we are out
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Post by minnierover on Jan 5, 2020 16:27:54 GMT
We haven't won it since 1863 it's delusional to expect anything else! We’ve never won it sadly.
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Jan 5, 2020 16:31:58 GMT
I was disappointed to hear O'Neill's "we're concentrating on the league" pre-match comments. A cup run creates a feel-good factor, and even if the most optimistic number of players are shipped off this month, we'd still have a big enough squad to cope with an extra match at the end of January. The past three seasons have been miserable on the whole. Escaping relegation will be a relief, whereas a cup run would've created some joy. The graphic here suggests a cup run for Premier League clubs does cause league form to suffer: www.theguardian.com/football/who-scored-blog/2015/jan/27/does-progressing-in-the-fa-cup-affect-a-clubs-premier-league-form - that's only over 5 seasons from 2009-2013/14 though. Swansea had an FA Cup run in 2018, which coincided with an upturn in league form that moved them well out of the relegation spots. Their loss to Spurs in the cup then led to a downturn in league form, which eventually led to their relegation. A Sunderland fan did a write-up on their cup runs and concluded "Non-expert opinion melded seamlessly with non-expert statistical analysis and a fair old sprinkling of conjecture and supposition gives us four positive, two neutral, five negative, and a “wait and see”. Based on this fairly arbitrary assessment, cup runs are a bad thing. Sort of, and only just." www.a-love-supreme.com/post/2019/03/15/cup-run-impact-on-league
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2020 16:33:36 GMT
Winning is a habit, I don’t think a cup run does too much harm personally.... Losing can also turn into a habit; at any rate we've lost the chance to continue a winning sequence that had started with a magnificent result and a platform to build on with some interesting changes in personnel. O'Neill offered us the chance to see some further pieces in the puzzle by, eventually, re-introducing the two Belgium boys, and with Collins also in the team, a chance for Stoke diehards to see the academy prospects blossom into the full team. In the process he also made us further suffer Ince and Gregory. For different reasons, he should see that these two do not offer him nor us a way forward (although I can stomach Gregory as a late sub, as I said after the previous game).
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