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Post by Caerwrangonpotter on Dec 31, 2019 15:13:33 GMT
Now bit of an issue with me (as a few other South West Stokies will know...) Sometimes the legroom to sit isnt he greatest for someone over 5ft let alone someone who is on a par with Peter Crouch in the height stakes. Standing up I would prefer, but Im always aware of those behind whose view I can block more easily than an restricted view at Goodison  . If everyone else is standing too, then believe you me so will I (also helps with valuable 'on the telly' footage e.g Shrewsbury FA Cup) Oh and before some suggest that I always sit on end of aisle so that I can stretch legs out at an angle, yours truly once reprimanded at I think Carrow Road for daring to do such a dastardly deed. The thought that my legs were some sort of fire hazard/tripping hazard/blocking hazard was met with a further response of 'shouldn't be so tall then'  Genetics & chromosomes....only at a Stoke away day |
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Post by wrighter on Dec 31, 2019 15:32:45 GMT
Now bit of an issue with me (as a few other South West Stokies will know...) Sometimes the legroom to sit isnt he greatest for someone over 5ft let alone someone who is on a par with Peter Crouch in the height stakes. Standing up I would prefer, but Im always aware of those behind whose view I can block more easily than an restricted view at Goodison . If everyone else is standing too, then believe you me so will I (also helps with valuable 'on the telly' footage e.g Shrewsbury FA Cup) Oh and before some suggest that I always sit on end of aisle so that I can stretch legs out at an angle, yours truly once reprimanded at I think Carrow Road for daring to do such a dastardly deed. The thought that my legs were some sort of fire hazard/tripping hazard/blocking hazard was met with a further response of 'shouldn't be so tall then' Genetics & chromosomes....only at a Stoke away day im the same height as Crouchie !! always try and get an aisle seat, with little luck i now pay extra to go in the Q Railing, not much atmosphere, but much comfier |
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Dec 31, 2019 15:35:54 GMT
It will come, sd, because it has to and would be a win-win for everyone Do we have any idea yet, how Boris Johnson's new government is going to play it, Malcolm? Hopefully his desire to be seen as a populist will make him minded to allow rail seats/safe standing areas in the top two divisions. Is it worth telling him that all the Northern seats he has won from Labour are all in favour of safe standing?  I can't say very much on a public message Board, John, but let's just say that I'm optimistic that the new Government will honour its manifesto commitment on this  ( it's just about the only thing I am optimistic about following the election, but that's another story for a non-football message Board  ) I expect to see early progress on this in terms of Government action, but of course, actually reconfiguring grounds is a very different, longer and more expensive ball game ! |
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Post by cheadlestokie on Dec 31, 2019 15:43:39 GMT
Safe standing will actually be safer than what we have now
We all like a celebration when we score but some go a bit over the top and still surge forward over the seats below which is dangerous for some older people and young kids.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Dec 31, 2019 15:45:27 GMT
Do we have any idea yet, how Boris Johnson's new government is going to play it, Malcolm? Hopefully his desire to be seen as a populist will make him minded to allow rail seats/safe standing areas in the top two divisions. Is it worth telling him that all the Northern seats he has won from Labour are all in favour of safe standing? I can't say very much on a public message Board, John, but let's just say that I'm optimistic that the new Government will honour its manifesto commitment on this ( it's just about the only thing I am optimistic about following the election, but that's another story for a non-football message Board ) I expect to see early progress on this in terms of Government action, but of course, actually reconfiguring grounds is a very different, longer and more expensive ball game ! Cheers, Malcolm. It would be ironic if it took a modern, right wing, Trumpian, Tory PM, prone to being economical with the truth, to give back to footy fans what Margaret Thatcher took away from them! Its a bloody weird world sometimes. |
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Post by skemstokie on Dec 31, 2019 15:57:22 GMT
I never sit at football matches, which is why I always buy a ticket at the back of wherever we're playing. If I was at the front, and people couldn't see behind me, of course, I'd sit or move - what is wrong with people? We have a lot of dense people who follow this club. Also add selfish to that dense . |
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joll1
Academy Starlet
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Post by joll1 on Dec 31, 2019 16:04:29 GMT
I was towards the front. Everyone was standing when I arrived. Stewards asked us to sit down, the message was heard by all, most of us sat,then people would stand again, then take ages to sit back down. Trouble was, the view from down the front was appalling. You could see about 1/4 of the pitch. I tried to sit, but gestured to a security guy, that unless everyone was sitting it just didn't work. He basically said I understand and the security gave up asking. Last thing i want to do is block someone's view, however if you cant see the pitch, due to 10 rows in front standing, you have to stand yourself, |
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Post by loosestools on Dec 31, 2019 16:17:17 GMT
Why cant people just be grumpy twats like me? I sit in my seat with my arms folded and a face like the inside of a bad orange, as there is usually very little to stand up and jump about at.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2019 16:21:51 GMT
I prefer to stand. I was in seats where people behind me were sitting so I sat through the first half. The 2nd half I got up and moved further back so I could stand up. I don't like seeing people standing in front of people who want to sit down but it isn't going to change until they authorities do something about it. Appreciate your consideration for others so the rest of this isn't aimed at you at all. That last bit is the issue. Nothing will change until we're made to do so - yet when folk are asked by stewards to sit they get abuse hurled at them. Mentioned above by others, but support the way to get safe standing in grounds but until then, that percentage of folk need to just get a basic amount of decency, thought and consideration for those around them. |
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Post by stick7 on Dec 31, 2019 16:40:59 GMT
This is exactly why safe standing needs to be introduced at out grounds for both home and away fans as soon as possible.Given the choice I would stand up every match but I do have 100% consideration for fans who prefer to sit and simply don't stand unless everyone in front of me is so I'm infect being forced to stand.Sadly people just don't have respect for there fellow fans.
Therefore in my opinion the sooner safe standing gets legalised the better and the fans who prefer to sit can do so without disruption and us fans who prefer to stand can enjoy watching our football that way,simple really.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Dec 31, 2019 17:21:01 GMT
Isn't it the law to sit? If they are not complying with this then the stewards or police are not upholding the law? I know that sounds officious but it pisses me off that the lack of respect, for fellow fans, is not clamped down on. It's not a criminal offence to stand but it is against the ground regulations to which you implicitly agree when purchasing a ticket. The law requires clubs in the top 2 tiers to only provide seating accommodation. The reason it is not enforced rigidly anymore is because of the numbers involved and the possible public order consequences of evicting fans who are standing. Safety officers take the view that allowing standing is the lesser of the evils. Until we have separate standing areas, I think the two clubs involved should be much more specific about where standing will be allowed and where it won't. Stoke City at present say that if you want to stand you should buy tickets towards the back, which is OK as far as it goes but is ill-defined and some fans at the front simply stand anyway. There should be a clear statement - standing WILL be allowed in rows XXX or blocks XXXX, but in rows YYY and blocks YYY seating WILL be enforced. So that everyone knows EXACTLY what the position is right from the date when tickets go on sale. I have made this suggestion before, but it hasn't been implemented unfortunately. Malcolm I can understand clubs choosing to ' allow" standing as the lesser of two evils, given that it happens regardless but I cannot imagine clubs being explicit in supporting standing....to me it seems very dangerous in areas containing seats ( thus having implications for liability should there be an accident) and actually fueling arguments as the area where seating is " encouraged" is clearly physically designed as a seating area. As you imply the only sensible answer is designated standing areas which clearly would be done differently than pre Hillsborough |
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Dec 31, 2019 17:50:28 GMT
It's not a criminal offence to stand but it is against the ground regulations to which you implicitly agree when purchasing a ticket. The law requires clubs in the top 2 tiers to only provide seating accommodation. The reason it is not enforced rigidly anymore is because of the numbers involved and the possible public order consequences of evicting fans who are standing. Safety officers take the view that allowing standing is the lesser of the evils. Until we have separate standing areas, I think the two clubs involved should be much more specific about where standing will be allowed and where it won't. Stoke City at present say that if you want to stand you should buy tickets towards the back, which is OK as far as it goes but is ill-defined and some fans at the front simply stand anyway. There should be a clear statement - standing WILL be allowed in rows XXX or blocks XXXX, but in rows YYY and blocks YYY seating WILL be enforced. So that everyone knows EXACTLY what the position is right from the date when tickets go on sale. I have made this suggestion before, but it hasn't been implemented unfortunately. Malcolm I can understand clubs choosing to ' allow" standing as the lesser of two evils, given that it happens regardless but I cannot imagine clubs being explicit in supporting standing....to me it seems very dangerous in areas containing seats ( thus having implications for liability should there be an accident) and actually fueling arguments as the area where seating is " encouraged" is clearly physically designed as a seating area. As you imply the only sensible answer is designated standing areas which clearly would be done differently than pre Hillsborough I think you have accurately identified the reason why some, maybe most, clubs, including our own do not give more explicit advice, probably taking advice from m'learned friends. But some are more bold, albeit sometimes using euphemisms such as "singing area". Did you by chance go to Cardiff ? They were very specific in identifying away areas where standing is allowed and where it isn't. I think this approach is defensible because you can demonstrate that by doing it you actually reduce the number of people standing in a seated area, not increase it. But I'm not a lawyer and clubs and their safety officers vary in how they assess risk and how frightened they are of their local licensing committees. The problem of course at Hillsborough was that there were individual pens fans couldn't escape out of but which were not individually controlled in terms of the numbers allowed into them. That must certainly never happen again. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Dec 31, 2019 18:01:22 GMT
Malcolm I can understand clubs choosing to ' allow" standing as the lesser of two evils, given that it happens regardless but I cannot imagine clubs being explicit in supporting standing....to me it seems very dangerous in areas containing seats ( thus having implications for liability should there be an accident) and actually fueling arguments as the area where seating is " encouraged" is clearly physically designed as a seating area. As you imply the only sensible answer is designated standing areas which clearly would be done differently than pre Hillsborough I think you have accurately identified the reason why some, maybe most, clubs, including our own do not give more explicit advice, probably taking advice from m'learned friends. But some are more bold, albeit sometimes using euphemisms such as "singing area". Did you by chance go to Cardiff ? They were very specific in identifying away areas where standing is allowed and where it isn't. I think this approach is defensible because you can demonstrate that by doing it you actually reduce the number of people standing in a seated area, not increase it. But I'm not a lawyer and clubs and their safety officers vary in how they assess risk and how frightened they are of their local licensing committees. The problem of course at Hillsborough was that there were individual pens fans couldn't escape out of but which were not individually controlled in terms of the numbers allowed into them. That must certainly never happen again. I was at Hillsborough Malcolm with a Forest fan. I think many different decisions and behaviours contributed to the disaster but for me....the decision to design a spectator sport so that the spectator has to be caged in .....and also view the sport through " fences" seems wrong on so many levels. And for those cages not be easily removed. Hindsight is a wonderful thing I suppose. The answer has got to be properly managed standing areas....if only introduced as a season trial |
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Post by madnellie on Dec 31, 2019 21:29:59 GMT
I can't say very much on a public message Board, John, but let's just say that I'm optimistic that the new Government will honour its manifesto commitment on this ( it's just about the only thing I am optimistic about following the election, but that's another story for a non-football message Board ) I expect to see early progress on this in terms of Government action, but of course, actually reconfiguring grounds is a very different, longer and more expensive ball game ! Cheers, Malcolm. It would be ironic if it took a modern, right wing, Trumpian, Tory PM, prone to being economical with the truth, to give back to footy fans what Margaret Thatcher took away from them! Its a bloody weird world sometimes. Circle of life and all that. |
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Dec 31, 2019 21:48:24 GMT
I have made this suggestion before, but it hasn't been implemented unfortunately. I guess if they implement it then they might as well provide standing areas, which is what a lot of people prefer, anyway!  |
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Post by harrywoodbine on Jan 1, 2020 2:35:45 GMT
I rarely see many away fans sitting so think Stoke fans would be the exception if it becomes the norm for us. Isn't the standing what makes all the noise/atmosphere come from the away fans in most games? I'm not condoning some of the behaviour mentioned previously but having 1500+ Stoke away fans sat quietly at a match would be the final straw in the demise of our once renowned atmosphere. That said, Malcolm, I'm always amazed to see whole home ends standing at the likes of Chelsea, Liverpool (of all teams), Wolves etc. I know stewards can't deal with it themselves but I would argue that in the event of a serious injury caused at least in part by standing in a seated area that the Premier League and/or club could be legally challenged for effectively breaking their own rules. Can't believe it's not already happened.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 1, 2020 6:57:16 GMT
It happens at every away match. I am 71 and at Barnsley I was being pushed down the steps by some young lads when we scored the third, they had been standing all match. They got really angry and nasty when I had to push them away from me so that I didn't fall down the steps. Always try to book nearer the front, but still doesn't stop many standing. Happy New Year Chesterfield. I also think that what has happened over the years is that many" sitters" have simply stopped going away so it might seem like the majority want to stand. I used to go regularly with my daughter but have seen / experienced too many incidents as you describe that it became less than enjoyable. In the early days we managed somehow to get seats in the home end on occasions. |
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Post by chesterfieldstokie on Jan 1, 2020 8:06:27 GMT
It happens at every away match. I am 71 and at Barnsley I was being pushed down the steps by some young lads when we scored the third, they had been standing all match. They got really angry and nasty when I had to push them away from me so that I didn't fall down the steps. Always try to book nearer the front, but still doesn't stop many standing. Happy New Year Chesterfield. I also think that what has happened over the years is that many" sitters" have simply stopped going away so it might seem like the majority want to stand. I used to go regularly with my daughter but have seen / experienced too many incidents as you describe that it became less than enjoyable. In the early days we managed somehow to get seats in the home end on occasions. Same to you, yes and so many are drunk as well. |
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Post by mrcoke on Jan 1, 2020 11:13:26 GMT
It happens at every away match. I am 71 and at Barnsley I was being pushed down the steps by some young lads when we scored the third, they had been standing all match. They got really angry and nasty when I had to push them away from me so that I didn't fall down the steps. Always try to book nearer the front, but still doesn't stop many standing. You have my sympathies, the behaviour and attitude of so many these days is contemptible. Some of that selfish and prejudiced attitude has crept into this thread, e.g. "if you want to sit, get a seat at the front", "Thatcher introduced all seating" as though it was a political decision. All seated stadiums were introduced because scores of people went to football matches and were killed or maimed for life, as a consequence of loutish behaviour and the inability of the authorities to control it. Or if the authorities do take matters in hand, they are accused of over reaction and over zealous policing. The rules were introduced following an enquiry during which everyone had their say, but as with other issues there are a selfish minority who care little for the majority view, or "the rules" (speeding being another example). We now have an all seated rule and we still have loutish behaviour who have no respect for the law or consideration for those of us in our senior years. Sitting at the front inevitably means being more exposed to the weather, and I remember Barnsley was a particularly bitterly cold. Fortunately the football kept us warm that day. I don't want to be a jack in the box at every match, nor am I able to walk to and from a ground and stand for hours in between. I should like to see safe standing introduced, but also stronger enforcement of the seating rule, that we introduced for safety reasons, and the consideration for the elderly as there is for the disabled. |
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Post by thegrassyknoll on Jan 1, 2020 12:03:26 GMT
I can't say very much on a public message Board, John, but let's just say that I'm optimistic that the new Government will honour its manifesto commitment on this ( it's just about the only thing I am optimistic about following the election, but that's another story for a non-football message Board ) I expect to see early progress on this in terms of Government action, but of course, actually reconfiguring grounds is a very different, longer and more expensive ball game ! Cheers, Malcolm. It would be ironic if it took a modern, right wing, Trumpian, Tory PM, prone to being economical with the truth, to give back to footy fans what Margaret Thatcher took away from them! Its a bloody weird world sometimes. Don't hold your breath. The political dunces stopped WBA putting in rail seating two years ago. And don't expect Boris and his toadies to fund any new initiatives any time soon. |
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Post by kjpt140v on Jan 1, 2020 12:50:11 GMT
I rarely see many away fans sitting so think Stoke fans would be the exception if it becomes the norm for us. Isn't the standing what makes all the noise/atmosphere come from the away fans in most games? I'm not condoning some of the behaviour mentioned previously but having 1500+ Stoke away fans sat quietly at a match would be the final straw in the demise of our once renowned atmosphere. That said, Malcolm, I'm always amazed to see whole home ends standing at the likes of Chelsea, Liverpool (of all teams), Wolves etc. I know stewards can't deal with it themselves but I would argue that in the event of a serious injury caused at least in part by standing in a seated area that the Premier League and/or club could be legally challenged for effectively breaking their own rules. Can't believe it's not already happened. I heard those sentiments on Sunday,"Why should I sit down, they're not sat down over there." Pure school ground stuff. You completely ignore those that find it difficult to stand, children and those that don't want to stand. You're the only one who has defended standing. Atmosphere is still possible sat down, we do it at home. |
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Post by harrywoodbine on Jan 2, 2020 0:55:36 GMT
I have mixed views on it tbf. I absolutely understand the impact it has on some people but also genuinely think that our support has gone timid - like most clubs - to an extent due to us all sitting. I was mainly though highlighting that many clubs' supporters are much worse. Man Utd away fans stood in the aisles every game they played at Stoke. What I can't believe is that clubs where there is wholesale standing at home games do not get regular complaints from some/many of their own fans - and presumably the answer is "what can we do?" or "suggest you sit in another stand". Imagine if the whole Boothen End stood at every game. What I would hope most would agree with is that the league and clubs are failing in their legal obligations by pretending the grounds are all seater whereas in reality they are not enforced as such. They should either introduce safe standing areas in each ground or they should 100% enforce - imagine the option to stop the game after announcements like they can for racist chanting. Currently they are burying their heads in the sand and fans end up giving each other grief.
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. If everyone else is standing too, then believe you me so will I (also helps with valuable 'on the telly' footage e.g Shrewsbury FA Cup) 
( it's just about the only thing I am optimistic about following the election, but that's another story for a non-football message Board 
) I expect to see early progress on this in terms of Government action, but of course, actually reconfiguring grounds is a very different, longer and more expensive ball game ! 
