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Post by salopstick on May 23, 2024 8:06:15 GMT
the inquiry ends 31 July 24 - god knows how long for the results
im pretty sure the police cant invoved until then
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Post by noustie on May 23, 2024 10:36:43 GMT
This is on in the kitchen every time I nip down for a brew and if this was a boxing match the towel would have been thrown in 67 rounds ago but have absolutely no sympathy.
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Post by Paul Spencer on May 23, 2024 10:41:02 GMT
the inquiry ends 31 July 24 - god knows how long for the results im pretty sure the police cant invoved until then The recommendations are due in September. The police inquiry has already opened but the last time I looked, there had been very little progress.
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Post by salopstick on May 23, 2024 10:42:23 GMT
the inquiry ends 31 July 24 - god knows how long for the results im pretty sure the police cant invoved until then The recommendations are due in September. The police inquiry has already opened but the last time I looked, there had been very little progress. probably waiting for the recommendations mate
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Post by fullmetaljacket on May 23, 2024 10:55:43 GMT
They still haven't handed over everything they have.
Needs a police raid.
As evidenced by the email to that Angela woman stating they know about remote access.
Only way that has been found is some woman copied and pasted it into her email.
That's the only email it appears in so where's the chain?
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Post by crouchpotato1 on May 23, 2024 11:52:13 GMT
The horrible bitch is telling so many lies here😡
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Post by fullmetaljacket on May 23, 2024 12:08:19 GMT
The horrible bitch is telling so many lies here😡 She definitely crossed her legs when she swore on that bible.
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Post by salopstick on May 23, 2024 14:07:59 GMT
its a "cant recall afternoon"
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Post by shakermaker on May 23, 2024 14:34:17 GMT
Ouch, she’s more or less thrown Alice Perkins under the bus hasn’t she? I think Perkins is going to be found out when she appears. I think she is at least as guilty as PV, if not more so, in the strategic, not operational, sense. But she's Mrs Jack Straw… and we more than likely have a Labour government incoming in two months!
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Post by fullmetaljacket on May 23, 2024 14:39:37 GMT
Can't recall and chuck Susan under a bus afternoon.
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Post by Paul Spencer on May 23, 2024 15:05:49 GMT
Line of the entire enquiry so far ...
"So you want us to believe, that in fact it was a misunderstanding between you and your keyboard!"
🤣🤣🤣
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Post by Mendicant on May 23, 2024 15:32:59 GMT
I‘ve got a bad feeling about how damning the conclusions will be, relative to the evidence presented and I base it on a view which likely puts me in a minority (where I belong anyway to be fair).
And it’s this: yer man Jason Beer KC, Duncan Goodhew, the battle axe lady and the other geezer KC and the Sunshine Band are flattering to deceive. As much as we can admire their intellect and poise, I think they’re letting the witnesses get away with vague answers without persisting for a straight answer all while the Welsh Head Honcho sits there with his thumb up his arse. Hopefully my legal terminology is accurate enough.
Q: Did you do such and such? A: Well I suppose I would do that yes in all probability.
… time and again they answer in the conditional and it goes unchallenged.
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Post by shakermaker on May 23, 2024 15:47:21 GMT
I‘ve got a bad feeling about how damning the conclusions will be, relative to the evidence presented and I base it on a view which likely puts me in a minority (where I belong anyway to be fair). And it’s this: yer man Jason Beer KC, Duncan Goodhew, the battle axe lady and the other geezer KC and the Sunshine Band are flattering to deceive. As much as we can admire their intellect and poise, I think they’re letting the witnesses get away with vague answers without persisting for a straight answer all while the Welsh Head Honcho sits there with his thumb up his arse. Hopefully my legal terminology is accurate enough. Q: Did you do such and such? A: Well I suppose I would do that yes in all probability. … time and again they answer in the conditional and it goes unchallenged. But remember the counsels here are not looking to nail anyone. That’s up to Sir Wyn, and if they extracted all the information from the witnesses they wanted, Sir Wyn will then make up his mind about their culpability. The rest is for a court and jury to decide.
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Post by wannabee on May 23, 2024 16:19:40 GMT
I‘ve got a bad feeling about how damning the conclusions will be, relative to the evidence presented and I base it on a view which likely puts me in a minority (where I belong anyway to be fair). And it’s this: yer man Jason Beer KC, Duncan Goodhew, the battle axe lady and the other geezer KC and the Sunshine Band are flattering to deceive. As much as we can admire their intellect and poise, I think they’re letting the witnesses get away with vague answers without persisting for a straight answer all while the Welsh Head Honcho sits there with his thumb up his arse. Hopefully my legal terminology is accurate enough. Q: Did you do such and such? A: Well I suppose I would do that yes in all probability. … time and again they answer in the conditional and it goes unchallenged. But remember the counsels here are not looking to nail anyone. That’s up to Sir Wyn, and if they extracted all the information from the witnesses they wanted, Sir Wyn will then make up his mind about their culpability. The rest is for a court and jury to decide. Quite correct, Public Inquires are inquisitorial not adversarial. The Chair has a wide latitude in his Report to call certain witnesses liars, in polite language of course When it's all done some will have their collars felt for Perjury and/or Perverting the Course of Justice while some in-house and external lawyers will be subjected to Professional Standards review by their Association and have their career curtailed as well as Criminal scrutiny.
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Post by fullmetaljacket on May 23, 2024 16:23:32 GMT
Sir Wyn on the piss tonight.
Remote tomorrow. Fair play to him.
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Post by wannabee on May 23, 2024 16:33:27 GMT
Sir Wyn on the piss tonight. Remote tomorrow. Fair play to him. Maybe there's only so much crap he can listen to in person
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Post by butlerstbob on May 23, 2024 16:42:53 GMT
But remember the counsels here are not looking to nail anyone. That’s up to Sir Wyn, and if they extracted all the information from the witnesses they wanted, Sir Wyn will then make up his mind about their culpability. The rest is for a court and jury to decide. Quite correct, Public Inquires are inquisitorial not adversarial. The Chair has a wide latitude in his Report to call certain witnesses liars, in polite language of course When it's all done some will have their collars felt for Perjury and/or Perverting the Course of Justice while some in-house and external lawyers will be subjected to Professional Standards review by their Association and have their career curtailed as well as Criminal scrutiny. What are the chances of people like Vennells doing time? People have died thinking they were guilty, committed suicide, had their lives completely ruined, lost everything as in property and life savings etc etc because of their coverups! Surely this it too big to just give people a slap on the wrist?
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Post by Paul Spencer on May 23, 2024 17:03:27 GMT
Quite correct, Public Inquires are inquisitorial not adversarial. The Chair has a wide latitude in his Report to call certain witnesses liars, in polite language of course When it's all done some will have their collars felt for Perjury and/or Perverting the Course of Justice while some in-house and external lawyers will be subjected to Professional Standards review by their Association and have their career curtailed as well as Criminal scrutiny. What are the chances of people like Vennells doing time? People have died thinking they were guilty, committed suicide, had their lives completely ruined, lost everything as in property and life savings etc etc because of their coverups! Surely this it too big to just give people a slap on the wrist? That's up to the police to investigate and then the CPS to decide to prosecute in the first instance, not this inquiry, not even Wyn Williams can make that decision. In his report, he will make detailed recommendations based on the evidence and the testimony heard in this inquiry but he can't say that he thinks Paula Vennells (or indeed anybody else) should be prosecuted. He could say that he believes that a conspiracy took place and he might even suggest, that in his opinion, certain individuals lied under oath but it's not within his remit to suggest that people should be sent to trial.
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Post by Paul Spencer on May 23, 2024 17:20:29 GMT
I‘ve got a bad feeling about how damning the conclusions will be, relative to the evidence presented and I base it on a view which likely puts me in a minority (where I belong anyway to be fair). And it’s this: yer man Jason Beer KC, Duncan Goodhew, the battle axe lady and the other geezer KC and the Sunshine Band are flattering to deceive. As much as we can admire their intellect and poise, I think they’re letting the witnesses get away with vague answers without persisting for a straight answer all while the Welsh Head Honcho sits there with his thumb up his arse. Hopefully my legal terminology is accurate enough. Q: Did you do such and such? A: Well I suppose I would do that yes in all probability. … time and again they answer in the conditional and it goes unchallenged. I'm not sure how much of the inquiry you have watched but my interpretation of the proceedings couldn't be more different. I think the inquiry counsel have consistently come across as incredibly professional and diligent. Their knowledge of the actual case is incredibly thorough, meaning that the witness's AREN'T able to get away with vague answers and they repeatedly push again and again, until the witness has nowhere to go. Beer especially, will expertly lead the witness down a particular path, carefully peeling away, layer upon layer of potential defence available to them, before suddenly striking with the killer question and the witness then, at the moment, suddenly realises, that they are now completely exposed, with absolutely nowhere to go. Although it might not be completely apparent to us, I'm sure he knows exactly what Wyn Williams requires and he makes the decision to move on, once he's achieved his goal, whilst we're left wondering, well why didn't he ask this particular question, before moving on? And whenever Williams has interjected, it's clear that he is thinking it all through at an extremely deep level. He might be in his 70's but he seems as bright as a button to me.
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Post by Mendicant on May 23, 2024 17:51:44 GMT
I‘ve got a bad feeling about how damning the conclusions will be, relative to the evidence presented and I base it on a view which likely puts me in a minority (where I belong anyway to be fair). And it’s this: yer man Jason Beer KC, Duncan Goodhew, the battle axe lady and the other geezer KC and the Sunshine Band are flattering to deceive. As much as we can admire their intellect and poise, I think they’re letting the witnesses get away with vague answers without persisting for a straight answer all while the Welsh Head Honcho sits there with his thumb up his arse. Hopefully my legal terminology is accurate enough. Q: Did you do such and such? A: Well I suppose I would do that yes in all probability. … time and again they answer in the conditional and it goes unchallenged. I'm not sure how much of the inquiry you have watched but my interpretation of the proceedings couldn't be more different. I think the inquiry counsel have consistently come across as incredibly professional and diligent. Their knowledge of the actual case is incredibly thorough, meaning that the witness's AREN'T able to get away with vague answers and they repeatedly push again and again, until the witness has nowhere to go. Beer especially, will expertly lead the witness down a particular path, carefully peeling away, layer upon layer of potential defence available to them, before suddenly striking with the killer question and the witness then, at the moment, suddenly realises, that they are now completely exposed, with absolutely nowhere to go. Although it might not be completely apparent to us, I'm sure he knows exactly what Wyn Williams requires and he makes the decision to move on, once he's achieved his goal, whilst we're left wondering, well why didn't he ask this particular question, before moving on? And whenever Williams has interjected, it's clear that he is thinking it all through at an extremely deep level. He might be in his 70's but he seems as bright as a button to me. I watch about 3 hours per week give or take. I actually agree with most of your points but where I differ is I suspect the Inquiry lawyers are so skilful, and so well trusted, that they can control how much the witnesses/culprits incriminate themselves or reveal. And that’s where I‘m a bit sceptical, for want of a better word ahead of the findings. They could put them to the sword if they wanted but they often avoid doing so by choice. It would upset the establishment and that’s not what the KCs were hired to do. There is more legal expertise in a Wright‘s pie than in my brain, so I‘m going on intuition mainly plus a nagging doubt that Williams is another Lord Hutton from the Dr Kelly/Dodgy Dossier Inquiry. I hope I‘m wrong anyway because this is a huge scandal.
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Post by wannabee on May 23, 2024 18:00:53 GMT
Quite correct, Public Inquires are inquisitorial not adversarial. The Chair has a wide latitude in his Report to call certain witnesses liars, in polite language of course When it's all done some will have their collars felt for Perjury and/or Perverting the Course of Justice while some in-house and external lawyers will be subjected to Professional Standards review by their Association and have their career curtailed as well as Criminal scrutiny. What are the chances of people like Vennells doing time? People have died thinking they were guilty, committed suicide, had their lives completely ruined, lost everything as in property and life savings etc etc because of their coverups! Surely this it too big to just give people a slap on the wrist? Can't add much more than what Paul has said. If certain people aren't prosecuted for the crimes I outlined there should be a Public Inquiry into the CPS. Some of the witnesses have already contradicted or its been proved not credible previous evidence they have given or directed to be given in Court Perverting the Course of Justice is a very serious offence which carries a Sanction up to Life Imprisonment although that's unlikely but it would be very unusual if a Prison Sentence wasn't imposed upon conviction. Perjury carries a Sentence of up to 7 years. Make no mistake the Cheif "Suspects" are feeling extremely uncomfortable at the moment as they know the Inquiry is merely the hors d'oeuvre and main feast comes later. Its not unsurprising they have memory recall problems which is frustrating for the onlooker who wants to see a gotcha moment but they will not willingly incriminate themselves, even if some has already been laid bare.
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Post by Paul Spencer on May 23, 2024 18:04:50 GMT
I'm not sure how much of the inquiry you have watched but my interpretation of the proceedings couldn't be more different. I think the inquiry counsel have consistently come across as incredibly professional and diligent. Their knowledge of the actual case is incredibly thorough, meaning that the witness's AREN'T able to get away with vague answers and they repeatedly push again and again, until the witness has nowhere to go. Beer especially, will expertly lead the witness down a particular path, carefully peeling away, layer upon layer of potential defence available to them, before suddenly striking with the killer question and the witness then, at the moment, suddenly realises, that they are now completely exposed, with absolutely nowhere to go. Although it might not be completely apparent to us, I'm sure he knows exactly what Wyn Williams requires and he makes the decision to move on, once he's achieved his goal, whilst we're left wondering, well why didn't he ask this particular question, before moving on? And whenever Williams has interjected, it's clear that he is thinking it all through at an extremely deep level. He might be in his 70's but he seems as bright as a button to me. I watch about 3 hours per week give or take. I actually agree with most of your points but where I differ is I suspect the Inquiry lawyers are so skilful, and so well trusted, that they can control how much the witnesses/culprits incriminate themselves or reveal. And that’s where I‘m a bit sceptical, for want of a better word ahead of the findings. They could put them to the sword if they wanted but they often avoid doing so by choice. It would upset the establishment and that’s not what the KCs were hired to do. There is more legal expertise in a Wright‘s pie than in my brain, so I‘m going on intuition mainly plus a nagging doubt that Williams is another Lord Hutton from the Dr Kelly/Dodgy Dossier Inquiry. I hope I‘m wrong anyway because this is a huge scandal. I cannot agree at all, that these KC's and lawyers are in any way influenced by not wanting to upset the establishment. If the establishment wanted to rig the outcome of the inquiry, then we wouldn't have some of the top professionals in the game asking the questions. I've actually found it quite refreshing to see a pillar of our establishment (judiciary & KC's) acting with such integrity, something of course, the present government has attempted to destroy on more than one occasion. In this example and in my opinion, Williams had ALREADY nailed her, when he asked the question "Why?". Her reply was always going to be irrelevant, he didn't NEED to put her to the sword with a follow up question dependent on what she said, indeed the job had already been completed, as soon as he'd trapped her with his question.
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Post by shakermaker on May 23, 2024 19:20:03 GMT
What are the chances of people like Vennells doing time? People have died thinking they were guilty, committed suicide, had their lives completely ruined, lost everything as in property and life savings etc etc because of their coverups! Surely this it too big to just give people a slap on the wrist? That's up to the police to investigate and then the CPS to decide to prosecute in the first instance, not this inquiry, not even Wyn Williams can make that decision. In his report, he will make detailed recommendations based on the evidence and the testimony heard in this inquiry but he can't say that he thinks Paula Vennells (or indeed anybody else) should be prosecuted. He could say that he believes that a conspiracy took place and he might even suggest, that in his opinion, certain individuals lied under oath but it's not within his remit to suggest that people should be sent to trial. Are the public allowed to read the full findings and recommendations from Sir Wyn when they are published?
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Post by chuffedstokie on May 23, 2024 19:57:00 GMT
I watch about 3 hours per week give or take. I actually agree with most of your points but where I differ is I suspect the Inquiry lawyers are so skilful, and so well trusted, that they can control how much the witnesses/culprits incriminate themselves or reveal. And that’s where I‘m a bit sceptical, for want of a better word ahead of the findings. They could put them to the sword if they wanted but they often avoid doing so by choice. It would upset the establishment and that’s not what the KCs were hired to do. There is more legal expertise in a Wright‘s pie than in my brain, so I‘m going on intuition mainly plus a nagging doubt that Williams is another Lord Hutton from the Dr Kelly/Dodgy Dossier Inquiry. I hope I‘m wrong anyway because this is a huge scandal. I cannot agree at all, that these KC's and lawyers are in any way influenced by not wanting to upset the establishment. If the establishment wanted to rig the outcome of the inquiry, then we wouldn't have some of the top professionals in the game asking the questions. I've actually found it quite refreshing to see a pillar of our establishment (judiciary & KC's) acting with such integrity, something of course, the present government has attempted to destroy on more than one occasion. In this example and in my opinion, Williams had ALREADY nailed her, when he asked the question "Why?". Her reply was always going to be irrelevant, he didn't NEED to put her to the sword with a follow up question dependent on what she said, indeed the job had already been completed, as soon as he'd trapped her with his question. What a great watch, thanks, he's as sharp as a pin.
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Post by Paul Spencer on May 23, 2024 20:28:55 GMT
That's up to the police to investigate and then the CPS to decide to prosecute in the first instance, not this inquiry, not even Wyn Williams can make that decision. In his report, he will make detailed recommendations based on the evidence and the testimony heard in this inquiry but he can't say that he thinks Paula Vennells (or indeed anybody else) should be prosecuted. He could say that he believes that a conspiracy took place and he might even suggest, that in his opinion, certain individuals lied under oath but it's not within his remit to suggest that people should be sent to trial. Are the public allowed to read the full findings and recommendations from Sir Wyn when they are published? Yes mate, 100%.
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Post by iancransonsknees on May 23, 2024 20:33:14 GMT
Quite correct, Public Inquires are inquisitorial not adversarial. The Chair has a wide latitude in his Report to call certain witnesses liars, in polite language of course When it's all done some will have their collars felt for Perjury and/or Perverting the Course of Justice while some in-house and external lawyers will be subjected to Professional Standards review by their Association and have their career curtailed as well as Criminal scrutiny. What are the chances of people like Vennells doing time? People have died thinking they were guilty, committed suicide, had their lives completely ruined, lost everything as in property and life savings etc etc because of their coverups! Surely this it too big to just give people a slap on the wrist? Hopefully.
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Post by metalhead on May 23, 2024 20:45:32 GMT
She had a rough day today... Absolutely torn apart. She deserves much rougher. Oh i don't disagree. She's evidently a bit dim and she's way way out of her depth here. She's trying to bullshit her way past people who are considerably smarter than her and she can't keep up.
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Post by shakermaker on May 23, 2024 21:07:07 GMT
What are the chances of people like Vennells doing time? People have died thinking they were guilty, committed suicide, had their lives completely ruined, lost everything as in property and life savings etc etc because of their coverups! Surely this it too big to just give people a slap on the wrist? Can't add much more than what Paul has said. If certain people aren't prosecuted for the crimes I outlined there should be a Public Inquiry into the CPS. Some of the witnesses have already contradicted or its been proved not credible previous evidence they have given or directed to be given in Court Perverting the Course of Justice is a very serious offence which carries a Sanction up to Life Imprisonment although that's unlikely but it would be very unusual if a Prison Sentence wasn't imposed upon conviction. Perjury carries a Sentence of up to 7 years. Make no mistake the Cheif "Suspects" are feeling extremely uncomfortable at the moment as they know the Inquiry is merely the hors d'oeuvre and main feast comes later. Its not unsurprising they have memory recall problems which is frustrating for the onlooker who wants to see a gotcha moment but they will not willingly incriminate themselves, even if some has already been laid bare. The outcome of Sir Wyn’s findings and recommendations will be published in full. If it is obvious from those findings that guilt has been apportioned beyond reasonable doubt, then given the high profile of this case it would be extremely brave of the CPS not to prosecute at least one POL or Fujitsu individual from this sordid saga. I believe that Sir Wyn is a man of integrity. If a government minister or lord was leaning on him to water down his recommendations, I would hope (in his own Grandpa like soothing tones) he would tell that person to fuck right off.
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Post by wannabee on May 23, 2024 21:33:22 GMT
Can't add much more than what Paul has said. If certain people aren't prosecuted for the crimes I outlined there should be a Public Inquiry into the CPS. Some of the witnesses have already contradicted or its been proved not credible previous evidence they have given or directed to be given in Court Perverting the Course of Justice is a very serious offence which carries a Sanction up to Life Imprisonment although that's unlikely but it would be very unusual if a Prison Sentence wasn't imposed upon conviction. Perjury carries a Sentence of up to 7 years. Make no mistake the Cheif "Suspects" are feeling extremely uncomfortable at the moment as they know the Inquiry is merely the hors d'oeuvre and main feast comes later. Its not unsurprising they have memory recall problems which is frustrating for the onlooker who wants to see a gotcha moment but they will not willingly incriminate themselves, even if some has already been laid bare. The outcome of Sir Wyn’s findings and recommendations will be published in full. If it is obvious from those findings that guilt has been apportioned beyond reasonable doubt, then given the high profile of this case it would be extremely brave of the CPS not to prosecute at least one POL or Fujitsu individual from this sordid saga. I believe that Sir Wyn is a man of integrity. If a government minister or lord was leaning on him to water down his recommendations, I would hope (in his own Grandpa like soothing tones) he would tell that person to fuck right off. I have said from early on in this thread I have a concern about self incrimination, the potential Report findings and the defence of being unable to get a fair/non prejudiced Jury. It wouldn't surprise me if the Police have made progress that Sir Wyn may be asked to hold off his Report if arrests/prosecutions are pending Lest there being any doubt my concern is that there should be no impediment or mitigation of sending these Bastards to Gaol
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Post by fullmetaljacket on May 24, 2024 10:40:34 GMT
Fake tears again.
Shit acting.
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