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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 27, 2019 11:01:56 GMT
What was Jezziah's presser about? We've only got 16 days to save the NHS or summat? He says he has proof that the NHS is (and has been) on the table in six rounds of US-UK trade talks that have already happened. A 600-page uncensored document, according to him. Too early to tell if it's as explosive as he says. Given the size of the thing it will probably take journalists, critics and campaigners quite a bit of sifting through to actually read what it says. This info was on Reddit week's ago. The talks started and ended before Johnson became Prime Minister. US drug companies already tender to supply the NHS. I think Labour wanted to release this much later in the campaign but after the worst interview in political history they're trying a dead cat presser out of sheer desperation. There's now plenty of time to sift through this and expose Corbyn for scaremongering. |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Nov 27, 2019 11:04:33 GMT
He says he has proof that the NHS is (and has been) on the table in six rounds of US-UK trade talks that have already happened. A 600-page uncensored document, according to him. Too early to tell if it's as explosive as he says. Given the size of the thing it will probably take journalists, critics and campaigners quite a bit of sifting through to actually read what it says. This info was on Reddit week's ago. The talks started and ended before Johnson became Prime Minister. US drug companies already tender to supply the NHS. I think Labour wanted to release this much later in the campaign but after the worst interview in political history they're trying a dead cat presser out of sheer desperation. There's now plenty of time to sift through this and expose Corbyn for scaremongering. Thanks for confirming the official Tory party line. I'll wait and see what people find in the document. |
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Post by Eggybread on Nov 27, 2019 11:06:56 GMT
He says he has proof that the NHS is (and has been) on the table in six rounds of US-UK trade talks that have already happened. A 600-page uncensored document, according to him. Too early to tell if it's as explosive as he says. Given the size of the thing it will probably take journalists, critics and campaigners quite a bit of sifting through to actually read what it says. This info was on Reddit week's ago. The talks started and ended before Johnson became Prime Minister. US drug companies already tender to supply the NHS. I think Labour wanted to release this much later in the campaign but after the worst interview in political history they're trying a dead cat presser out of sheer desperation. There's now plenty of time to sift through this and expose Corbyn for scaremongering. Scaremongering?? You have just admitted he is telling the truth. |
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 27, 2019 11:19:28 GMT
This info was on Reddit week's ago. The talks started and ended before Johnson became Prime Minister. US drug companies already tender to supply the NHS. I think Labour wanted to release this much later in the campaign but after the worst interview in political history they're trying a dead cat presser out of sheer desperation. There's now plenty of time to sift through this and expose Corbyn for scaremongering. Thanks for confirming the official Tory party line. I'll wait and see what people find in the document. If there was anything he wouldnt need to hold a 451 page report he would just reference the actual page but he wont as one of the few direct references is actually in regard to cheaper drugs for the NHS...... |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2019 11:26:39 GMT
Thanks for confirming the official Tory party line. I'll wait and see what people find in the document. If there was anything he wouldnt need to hold a 451 page report he would just reference the actual page but he wont as one of the few direct references is actually in regard to cheaper drugs for the NHS...... So you've read this report have you? Which direct reference are you referring to? |
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 27, 2019 11:33:31 GMT
He works for an investment firm who you know invest in companies probably has links to every industry, for a lawyer you dont seem very clued up equity release gives money to the owner of the house for a share of future sale proceeds, May's plan was no one had to sell their homes before they died so care costs came out of sale proceeds so how does equity release benefit from that ? Are you related to Essex ? Many people have had to turn to equity release to pay for the rising costs of their care. You force people to pay for it and take away the funding which they have done and people find ways to pay. You're pointing one bit of her "plan" which never came about but the policy was that people had to pay more towards the costs of their care. I literally do not understand why people just need to turn to insults. I know nothing apparently but people on here are propagating that it was said on the TV pensioners will be £400 worse off when they don't understand the difference between a dividend income and income from a normal private pension scheme. It's deliberately misleading on the part of the interviewers and the newspapers reporting as your average person wouldn't understand that. You started with an implication that May was doing this to help her husband which was clearly rubbish. People have had to sell their homes for years to pay for their own care before austerity the actual amount of care you get has always been pitiful. Yes if you want better care everyone has to pay more for it perhaps she should just pretend rich people will pay for it all. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2019 11:39:25 GMT
Many people have had to turn to equity release to pay for the rising costs of their care. You force people to pay for it and take away the funding which they have done and people find ways to pay. You're pointing one bit of her "plan" which never came about but the policy was that people had to pay more towards the costs of their care. I literally do not understand why people just need to turn to insults. I know nothing apparently but people on here are propagating that it was said on the TV pensioners will be £400 worse off when they don't understand the difference between a dividend income and income from a normal private pension scheme. It's deliberately misleading on the part of the interviewers and the newspapers reporting as your average person wouldn't understand that. You started with an implication that May was doing this to help her husband which was clearly rubbish. People have had to sell their homes for years to pay for their own care before austerity the actual amount of care you get has always been pitiful. Yes if you want better care everyone has to pay more for it perhaps she should just pretend rich people will pay for it all. No I haven't started with that at all. And the fact is that in the reduction of state funding for our public services these private companies and their shareholders are the ones who are gaining, same with the banks, many politicians (and not just conservative ones) are well placed to make gains and it has been widely publicised how many politicians (and their family members and friends) stand to gain from many policies including Brexit. Many care homes are owned by private equity firms who make huge profits from their business. The balance needs to be redressed. You've literally paid your tax and national insurance your whole life but seem happy that 1) services are constantly being reduced and 2) private companies and wealthy individuals are making huge amount from providing public sector services e.g. services either originally establish with tax payer money or currently funded by the tax payer. |
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 27, 2019 11:41:54 GMT
If there was anything he wouldnt need to hold a 451 page report he would just reference the actual page but he wont as one of the few direct references is actually in regard to cheaper drugs for the NHS...... So you've read this report have you? Which direct reference are you referring to? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2019 11:44:18 GMT
So you've read this report have you? Which direct reference are you referring to? And where is the reference to cheaper drugs? The US is negotiating to reduce the amount the NHS pays to it for the drugs is it? |
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 27, 2019 11:46:41 GMT
And where is the reference to cheaper drugs? The US is negotiating to reduce the amount the NHS pays to it for the drugs is it? We dont buy many of our drugs from the USA currently they are looking to sell directly.... |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2019 11:51:44 GMT
And where is the reference to cheaper drugs? The US is negotiating to reduce the amount the NHS pays to it for the drugs is it? We dont buy many of our drugs from the USA currently they are looking to sell directly.... The US don't want to sell us generic drugs - they want to extend their patents so they can charge a higher price. If it's patented not generic and you can charge a higher price because you have the rights to that drug. What a bloody ridiculous thing to screen shot. It says absolutely nothing and quite the opposite of what you're saying it does - it says "the impact on access to generic drugs" - the IMPACT which will be worse if patents are extended. It's widely reported that US pharmaceutical companies sell at a much higher price to US healthcare providers than they do the NHS. The US IP system has longer (and is easier to obtains) patents for medicines so they have less generic drugs! They aren't negotiating to sell to us at a lower price are they? What will it take for people to wake up. It's not even logicial. |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 27, 2019 11:52:58 GMT
This info was on Reddit week's ago. The talks started and ended before Johnson became Prime Minister. US drug companies already tender to supply the NHS. I think Labour wanted to release this much later in the campaign but after the worst interview in political history they're trying a dead cat presser out of sheer desperation. There's now plenty of time to sift through this and expose Corbyn for scaremongering. Scaremongering?? You have just admitted he is telling the truth. He's not telling the truth as you'll soon find out. Johnson is not proposing to "sell the NHS to Donald Trump" Even this bombshell from Corbyn has turned into car crash presser v2.0 Stick a fork in him, he's done. |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 27, 2019 12:05:24 GMT
www.globaljustice.org.uk/news/2019/nov/27/explosive-leaked-trade-papers-show-nhs-chlorinated-chicken-already-table-us-tradeNick Dearden, director of Global Justice Now, said: “No wonder the government didn’t want us to see these papers: they clearly show the British negotiators being bullied by Trump’s administration, and Boris Johnson dancing to the tune of US big business. Boris Johnson’s position on Brexit is clearly dictated by what’s best for US corporations, even when he knows this will be worse for the British economy and British welfare. “The US is demanding damaging changes to the British economy which threaten our public services like the NHS, our food standards and farmer livelihoods, our access to new cancer medicines, and our ability to tackle climate change. US officials are damning about parliamentary scrutiny over safety standards and are even trying to dictate what positions Britain can take in international fora. Both sides are committed to as much secrecy as possible in these trade talks. “These papers make a mockery of Boris Johnson’s manifesto pledge to protect British public services and standards – that would be absolutely impossible under the type of trade deal being discussed here. We will continue to force these discussions into the light, so people know what they’re voting for 12 December.”
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Post by thevoid on Nov 27, 2019 12:06:15 GMT
So who gave the worst performance last night, Stoke or Jezbollah?
I'm calling a draw.
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 27, 2019 12:11:41 GMT
We dont buy many of our drugs from the USA currently they are looking to sell directly.... The US don't want to sell us generic drugs - they want to extend their patents so they can charge a higher price. If it's patented not generic and you can charge a higher price because you have the rights to that drug. What a bloody ridiculous thing to screen shot. It says absolutely nothing and quite the opposite of what you're saying it does - it says "the impact on access to generic drugs" - the IMPACT which will be worse if patents are extended. It's widely reported that US pharmaceutical companies sell at a much higher price to US healthcare providers than they do the NHS. The US IP system has longer (and is easier to obtains) patents for medicines so they have less generic drugs! They aren't negotiating to sell to us at a lower price are they? What will it take for people to wake up. It's not even logicial. So you actually think any government is going to agree to a massive increase in costs to the NHS thereby leaving it even more cash strapped in which case I feel I should warn you that the email from the relative of the Nigerian oil minister is not real.... They are negotiating to sell something they dont already sell..... Anyway as Roger said its a dead cat to deflect from the carcrash interview of racist grandpa. |
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 27, 2019 12:12:56 GMT
www.globaljustice.org.uk/news/2019/nov/27/explosive-leaked-trade-papers-show-nhs-chlorinated-chicken-already-table-us-tradeNick Dearden, director of Global Justice Now, said: “No wonder the government didn’t want us to see these papers: they clearly show the British negotiators being bullied by Trump’s administration, and Boris Johnson dancing to the tune of US big business. Boris Johnson’s position on Brexit is clearly dictated by what’s best for US corporations, even when he knows this will be worse for the British economy and British welfare. “The US is demanding damaging changes to the British economy which threaten our public services like the NHS, our food standards and farmer livelihoods, our access to new cancer medicines, and our ability to tackle climate change. US officials are damning about parliamentary scrutiny over safety standards and are even trying to dictate what positions Britain can take in international fora. Both sides are committed to as much secrecy as possible in these trade talks. “These papers make a mockery of Boris Johnson’s manifesto pledge to protect British public services and standards – that would be absolutely impossible under the type of trade deal being discussed here. We will continue to force these discussions into the light, so people know what they’re voting for 12 December.” These negotiations took part under May so there is a lie straight out of the traps. |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 27, 2019 12:19:41 GMT
www.globaljustice.org.uk/news/2019/nov/27/explosive-leaked-trade-papers-show-nhs-chlorinated-chicken-already-table-us-tradeNick Dearden, director of Global Justice Now, said: “No wonder the government didn’t want us to see these papers: they clearly show the British negotiators being bullied by Trump’s administration, and Boris Johnson dancing to the tune of US big business. Boris Johnson’s position on Brexit is clearly dictated by what’s best for US corporations, even when he knows this will be worse for the British economy and British welfare. “The US is demanding damaging changes to the British economy which threaten our public services like the NHS, our food standards and farmer livelihoods, our access to new cancer medicines, and our ability to tackle climate change. US officials are damning about parliamentary scrutiny over safety standards and are even trying to dictate what positions Britain can take in international fora. Both sides are committed to as much secrecy as possible in these trade talks. “These papers make a mockery of Boris Johnson’s manifesto pledge to protect British public services and standards – that would be absolutely impossible under the type of trade deal being discussed here. We will continue to force these discussions into the light, so people know what they’re voting for 12 December.” These negotiations took part under May so there is a lie straight out of the traps. It proves Johnson is a complete and utter liar. Not that proof of that concrete fact were required!  |
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 27, 2019 12:20:53 GMT
These negotiations took part under May so there is a lie straight out of the traps. It proves Johnson is a complete and utter liar. Not that proof of that concrete fact were required! It seems not, racist grandpa semtex is is trouble.... |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2019 12:22:50 GMT
The US don't want to sell us generic drugs - they want to extend their patents so they can charge a higher price. If it's patented not generic and you can charge a higher price because you have the rights to that drug. What a bloody ridiculous thing to screen shot. It says absolutely nothing and quite the opposite of what you're saying it does - it says "the impact on access to generic drugs" - the IMPACT which will be worse if patents are extended. It's widely reported that US pharmaceutical companies sell at a much higher price to US healthcare providers than they do the NHS. The US IP system has longer (and is easier to obtains) patents for medicines so they have less generic drugs! They aren't negotiating to sell to us at a lower price are they? What will it take for people to wake up. It's not even logicial. So you actually think any government is going to agree to a massive increase in costs to the NHS thereby leaving it even more cash strapped in which case I feel I should warn you that the email from the relative of the Nigerian oil minister is not real.... They are negotiating to sell something they dont already sell..... Anyway as Roger said its a dead cat to deflect from the carcrash interview of racist grandpa. You think the Boris Johnson gives a flying fuck about what they cost to the NHS or he just wants to get he deal done. Don't be so completely naive. That literally what the whole document is about - about paying more for US pharma products, about import of substandard American food and reducing food standards. About NHS services and products literally being "on the table" which the Conservatives have denied, showing that the meeting they denied ever occurred did happen. Wake up for goodness sake. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2019 12:24:27 GMT
It proves Johnson is a complete and utter liar. Not that proof of that concrete fact were required! It seems not, racist grandpa semtex is is trouble.... Lets just explore the systems, which we already know will make things more NHS for the expensive, for no apparent reason whatsoever...give it a rest. |
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 27, 2019 12:25:27 GMT
So you actually think any government is going to agree to a massive increase in costs to the NHS thereby leaving it even more cash strapped in which case I feel I should warn you that the email from the relative of the Nigerian oil minister is not real.... They are negotiating to sell something they dont already sell..... Anyway as Roger said its a dead cat to deflect from the carcrash interview of racist grandpa. You think the Boris Johnson gives a flying fuck about what they cost to the NHS or he just wants to get he deal done. Don't be so completely naive. That literally what the whole document is about - about paying more for US pharma products, about import of substandard American food and reducing food standards. About NHS services and products literally being "on the table" which the Conservatives have denied, showing that the meeting they denied ever occurred did happen. Wake up for goodness sake. No it doesn't I think I will listen to well more knowledgable people than yourself as above and calm down dear. |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 27, 2019 12:26:54 GMT
It proves Johnson is a complete and utter liar. Not that proof of that concrete fact were required! It seems not, racist grandpa semtex is is trouble.... |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2019 12:30:07 GMT
You think the Boris Johnson gives a flying fuck about what they cost to the NHS or he just wants to get he deal done. Don't be so completely naive. That literally what the whole document is about - about paying more for US pharma products, about import of substandard American food and reducing food standards. About NHS services and products literally being "on the table" which the Conservatives have denied, showing that the meeting they denied ever occurred did happen. Wake up for goodness sake. No it doesn't I think I will listen to well more knowledgable people than yourself as above and calm down dear. Like a random twitter page that said it would make drugs cheaper completely misreading the bit of the report they published to illustrate that which you clearly hadn't bothered to even read as if you had it clearly doesn't even say it would make drugs cheaper! As Momo has just published political editors are now making that clear so perhaps you could listen to them rather than me. |
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Post by Davef on Nov 27, 2019 12:35:41 GMT
Has Rachel Riley Photoshopped that picture yet? |
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 27, 2019 12:36:49 GMT
It seems not, racist grandpa semtex is is trouble.... Well if you ignore the paragraph before and as someone else points out FTA everyone just agrees to what the other side wants thats why they only take a few days to negotiate of course..... |
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Post by yeokel on Nov 27, 2019 12:54:36 GMT
You started with an implication that May was doing this to help her husband which was clearly rubbish. People have had to sell their homes for years to pay for their own care before austerity the actual amount of care you get has always been pitiful. Yes if you want better care everyone has to pay more for it perhaps she should just pretend rich people will pay for it all. No I haven't started with that at all. And the fact is that in the reduction of state funding for our public services these private companies and their shareholders are the ones who are gaining, same with the banks, many politicians (and not just conservative ones) are well placed to make gains and it has been widely publicised how many politicians (and their family members and friends) stand to gain from many policies including Brexit. Many care homes are owned by private equity firms who make huge profits from their business. The balance needs to be redressed. You've literally paid your tax and national insurance your whole life but seem happy that 1) services are constantly being reduced and 2) private companies and wealthy individuals are making huge amount from providing public sector services e.g. services either originally establish with tax payer money or currently funded by the tax payer. “ Many care homes are owned by private equity firms who make huge profits from their business.” We used to have quite a few care homes as customers. Virtually all have closed down during the past five years as there is virtually no money in it. Even the Guardian seems to agree… 400 care home operators collapse in five years as cuts bite
“Y ou've literally paid your tax and national insurance your whole life but seem happy that 1) services are constantly being reduced and 2) private companies and wealthy individuals are making huge amount from providing public sector services” You seem to have believed that NI payments were ringfenced to provide health care and welfare services for us in our old age. That hasn’t been the case for decades and is extremely naïve to believe otherwise (equivalent to believing that “road tax” was only used for the building and maintenance of roads). The levels of NI payments that used to be made were calculated without accurately predicting vastly increased life expectancies, as well as probably not taking account of much reduced ‘family care’ circumstances due to much greater geographical spreads than used to be the case, working patterns and domestic living arrangements. All in all, nothing like enough was collected in taxes, NI and other payments in the past thus the need to both economise, raise extra taxes and look to buy in extra services where they can be economically provided from outside. You might also note that many of these massively profitable businesses that you seem to be complaining about are owned by the big corporations and investment funds which are invested in to by the private pension providers so, when they pay their divis, they are topping up yours and nearly everyone else’s pension for them. Which, as we know, Jezza may then tax thus helping fund the NHS, and round and round we go again! |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2019 13:11:43 GMT
No I haven't started with that at all. And the fact is that in the reduction of state funding for our public services these private companies and their shareholders are the ones who are gaining, same with the banks, many politicians (and not just conservative ones) are well placed to make gains and it has been widely publicised how many politicians (and their family members and friends) stand to gain from many policies including Brexit. Many care homes are owned by private equity firms who make huge profits from their business. The balance needs to be redressed. You've literally paid your tax and national insurance your whole life but seem happy that 1) services are constantly being reduced and 2) private companies and wealthy individuals are making huge amount from providing public sector services e.g. services either originally establish with tax payer money or currently funded by the tax payer. “ Many care homes are owned by private equity firms who make huge profits from their business.” We used to have quite a few care homes as customers. Virtually all have closed down during the past five years as there is virtually no money in it. Even the Guardian seems to agree… 400 care home operators collapse in five years as cuts bite
“Y ou've literally paid your tax and national insurance your whole life but seem happy that 1) services are constantly being reduced and 2) private companies and wealthy individuals are making huge amount from providing public sector services” You seem to have believed that NI payments were ringfenced to provide health care and welfare services for us in our old age. That hasn’t been the case for decades and is extremely naïve to believe otherwise (equivalent to believing that “road tax” was only used for the building and maintenance of roads). The levels of NI payments that used to be made were calculated without accurately predicting vastly increased life expectancies, as well as probably not taking account of much reduced ‘family care’ circumstances due to much greater geographical spreads than used to be the case, working patterns and domestic living arrangements. All in all, nothing like enough was collected in taxes, NI and other payments In the past thus the need to both economise, raise extra taxes and look to buy in extra services where they can be economically provided from outside. You might also note that many of these massively profitable businesses that you seem to be complaining about are owned by the big corporations and investment funds which are invested in to by the private pension providers so, when they pay their divis, they are topping up yours and nearly everyone else’s pension for them. Which, as we know, Jezza may then taxt thus helping fund the NHS. Fair points however there are many care homes that have been closed down because they have been ran poorly and the shareholders taken the profits out. Care homes continue to be purchased and profits made out of them. In fact I think the article demonstrates that care business should not be in the hands of the private sector as they are not managed well and closing as a result. Southern Cross is an excellent example of the damaging involvement of a US private equity firm: www.theguardian.com/business/2011/jun/01/rise-and-fall-of-southern-cross Regarding your second point, I'm fully aware that pension providers own shares in many large corporations. However, there are many more private shareholders/investment funds which are making millions of pounds worth of profit - that profit comes from tax payer money supplemented by additional amounts people are required to pay because the services are not comprehensive. It's not really a case of public services just being "sold off" but that in many cases tax payer money is being given to private companies to provide services and they are keeping the profits. There are many arguments for and against and whether this benefits the economy or is reducing the breath and economy of our public services. It's not an easy one to fix but what is clear is that the current system appears to be ever increasingly imbalanced. I think your point about "family care" is a very interesting one. I have often wondered whether there has been any research done into the fact that so many areas have low paid jobs and people are having to move to the cities to earn better salaries. I work in London and many people feel they would rather be at home and worry what they will do if when their parents get sick/elderly but the jobs simply aren't there which was the reason they moved away. |
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 27, 2019 13:13:45 GMT
Tragic Grandpa.
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Post by salopstick on Nov 27, 2019 14:15:29 GMT
He’s like a dog on its last legs |
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 27, 2019 14:36:36 GMT
These negotiations took part under May so there is a lie straight out of the traps. It proves Johnson is a complete and utter liar. Not that proof of that concrete fact were required! Actually it proves Corbyn is untrustworthy! Factcheck: Corbyn’s ‘NHS for sale’ claims |
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