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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 24, 2019 11:28:22 GMT
Good write up on sky about stokes troubles. Good balanced article For me if you offer hughton enough, he will come Absolutely no way. Hughton has a top class reputation. He will be advised by his advisers to sit tight and wait for the right opportunity to come along, such as a Premier League club in trouble with a lot of talent on the books that wants someone different to come in any sort it out. For example Everton have only beaten the bottom 2 sides and not yet played any of the big 6 clubs, so they are in line to be in serious difficulty if Silva doesn't buck his ideas up. Alternatively he could sit and wait till next season for a relegated big club (Newcastle (again), Villa), or a big club that has missed promotion yet again (Leeds) if the right Premier League club opportunity does not materialise. One thing is for certain, there is no way an ex Prem. League manager like Hughton, Pulis, Big Sam (retired I think), Moyes, etc. is going to still their neck in a noose and take on a club at the bottom of the Championship and in free fall to the 3rd tier like Sunderland, Wigan, Blackburn, etc. have done in the past. Everton are not going to turn to Chris Hughton.
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 24, 2019 11:32:26 GMT
So why did Rowett fail and what has the next guy got? Rowett had some of the same difficulties in inheriting a squad with a losing mentality and doubtless some problems behind the scenes, but he made things worse for himself and the team. He spunked £50m up the wall on players who didn’t fit his system. He threw players under the bus in public He had no time for Etebo, the club’s best midfielder, because he didn’t sign him. He ostracised pretty much every creative player on the books and was left with a team that essentially was nine defence-minded players, Ince and a striker, then tried to claim he’d played five attackers in dire games where we struggled to have a shot on target. He got half a tune out of Berahino largely by letting him get away with murder, which I’m sure went down brilliantly with the rest of the squad. He thought Martina was better than Edwards. He thought it was a good idea to have a pop at the fans after one of the most wince-inducingly poor showings of the season. Like it. It took some doing to go 10 games undefeated and move further away from the play-off positions. Just as Rowett was saddled with what he inherited, Jones has had to contend with the likes of Ince and Afobe, who can't be bothered a lot of the time, which is a shame in Ince's case because he does actually have some talent unlike McClean who is 110% effort with no end product, Clucas and Woods "blow hot and cold" like the English weather. We can change manager, but if we did the new guy will be lumbered with Vokes, Cousins, and old cronies, etc.
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 24, 2019 11:36:15 GMT
Absolutely no way. Hughton has a top class reputation. He will be advised by his advisers to sit tight and wait for the right opportunity to come along, such as a Premier League club in trouble with a lot of talent on the books that wants someone different to come in any sort it out. For example Everton have only beaten the bottom 2 sides and not yet played any of the big 6 clubs, so they are in line to be in serious difficulty if Silva doesn't buck his ideas up. Alternatively he could sit and wait till next season for a relegated big club (Newcastle (again), Villa), or a big club that has missed promotion yet again (Leeds) if the right Premier League club opportunity does not materialise. One thing is for certain, there is no way an ex Prem. League manager like Hughton, Pulis, Big Sam (retired I think), Moyes, etc. is going to still their neck in a noose and take on a club at the bottom of the Championship and in free fall to the 3rd tier like Sunderland, Wigan, Blackburn, etc. have done in the past. Everton are not going to turn to Chris Hughton. You are probably right. I just gave it as an example of the sort of club Hughton is probably waiting for, who get into heavy water and decide to change manager, rather than a club at the foot of the Championship.
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Post by FullerMagic on Sept 24, 2019 11:38:19 GMT
Everton are not going to turn to Chris Hughton. You are probably right. I just gave it as an example of the sort of club Hughton is probably waiting for, who get into heavy water and decide to change manager, rather than a club at the foot of the Championship. There are so few clubs that would turn to a manager of his type these days in the Prem though. And of those handful that would even give him the time of the day, the chances of going for him are remote. I'm 99.9% sure his next job will be in this league (and by definiton, a struggling one in this league!) - as he's basically admitted several times in recent weeks.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Sept 24, 2019 11:46:45 GMT
Does anyone think he can survive a defeat tonight? I was interested to hear Angela Smith say on the sports phone in on Sunday night that she didn’t think home defeats to Forest and Huddersfield would necessarily mean he’d be sacked🤔
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Post by jimmygscfc on Sept 24, 2019 11:56:27 GMT
A defeat tonight won't see Nathan issued with his P45.
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Post by sutekh on Sept 24, 2019 11:57:28 GMT
Not making an argument against sacking Jones at all. I just wonder where the madness will stop... do we keep sacking managers every six months until one works out? We’re generally shit at getting rid at the right time and equally as shit at recruiting the right man, so why do we think it’ll work out this time? We’ve got a fucked race car but we keep on replacing the driver and expecting him to win races. We’re then surprised when he comes last, yet we go and do the exact same thing again. We gave the driver 20 free test drives earlier in the year, and told him he would have the entire summer to fix the car just the way he wanted. He decided to take off the knackered old wing mirror and use it as a replacement for the broken rear left wheel, and then went to the dump and found a discarded cardboard box, which he said he would work as a new engine, only to discover in the next race that this was a disastrous idea just as everybody said it would be. He also blew his budget buying an old spare tyre, so that he could replace a tyre that didn’t need replacing. If the above is true then jones would be more suited to managing a kiwi fit garage than a football club surely. Using a cardboard box for an engine whatever next?
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Sept 24, 2019 12:00:14 GMT
A defeat tonight won't see Nathan issued with his P45. How can you honestly come to that conclusion mate?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2019 12:01:28 GMT
Does anyone think he can survive a defeat tonight? I was interested to hear Angela Smith say on the sports phone in on Sunday night that she didn’t think home defeats to Forest and Huddersfield would necessarily mean he’d be sacked🤔 Tonight I don't think really means too much - got to be the league that trumps. Losing at home to Forest and Huddersfield I've got to think even his most ardent fans (myself probably included) will be saying his time is up. We do seem though to have become one of the basketcase clubs. I fear it's going to take us another three/four years at best to normalise again - regardless of who is in charge.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Sept 24, 2019 12:03:11 GMT
Does anyone think he can survive a defeat tonight? I was interested to hear Angela Smith say on the sports phone in on Sunday night that she didn’t think home defeats to Forest and Huddersfield would necessarily mean he’d be sacked🤔 Tonight I don't think really means too much - got to be the league that trumps. Losing at home to Forest and Huddersfield I've got to think even his most ardent fans (myself probably included) will be saying his time is up. We do seem though to have become one of the basketcase clubs. I fear it's going to take us another three/four years at best to normalise again - regardless of who is in charge. But surely on the back of his record already his position becomes untenable🤔
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Post by thevoid on Sept 24, 2019 12:13:15 GMT
Solution for me would be to install a Director of Football and to change this somewhat from me repeating myself I'd maybe suggest Darren Fletcher. The role would be designed to unwed us to managers meaning managers don't sign a host of players that aren't right for the club which includes signing players over youth team players or signing players we already have an abundance of. This person would also identify a philosophy and choose a coach that aligns with this. Fletcher his certain criteria in that he has pedigree and some knowledge of this league. What, so we can pay him to suggest our better prospects to The Shit?
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Post by thevoid on Sept 24, 2019 12:16:33 GMT
Does anyone think he can survive a defeat tonight? I was interested to hear Angela Smith say on the sports phone in on Sunday night that she didn’t think home defeats to Forest and Huddersfield would necessarily mean he’d be sacked🤔 If we lose those two home games and he's left in situ I'm sorry but it's Waddo Suite time.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 24, 2019 12:18:48 GMT
Tonight I don't think really means too much - got to be the league that trumps. Losing at home to Forest and Huddersfield I've got to think even his most ardent fans (myself probably included) will be saying his time is up. We do seem though to have become one of the basketcase clubs. I fear it's going to take us another three/four years at best to normalise again - regardless of who is in charge. But surely on the back of his record already his position becomes untenable🤔 I think he'll survive tonight whatever the weather but lose Friday and he's gone.
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Post by dirtygary69 on Sept 24, 2019 12:23:21 GMT
A defeat tonight won't see Nathan issued with his P45. How can you honestly come to that conclusion mate? I know this wasn't aimed at me but, personally, I wouldn't blame him for just concentrating on Friday's game. If he plays a full strength-ish team and loses, the pressure just mounts on him whereas if he rests a lot, he has an 'excuse'. I don't want to lose any game but we thought Leeds in the last round might be a turning point and it was a false dawn, so I don't see what beating Crawley is going to achieve and we're not going to get much further in the cup. Plenty of managers have bad cup results. I'm as "Jones out" as can be, by the way. I just don't think tonight matters that much UNLESS he puts a full strength team out and we lose.
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Post by chigstoke on Sept 24, 2019 12:26:31 GMT
But surely on the back of his record already his position becomes untenable🤔 I think he'll survive tonight whatever the weather but lose Friday and he's gone. Even if we got hammered tonight you reckon he'd survive?
Not saying we will and I don't think we will (infact I'm going for a 2-1 victory for us) but if the absolute unthinkable happened and we got drubbed 3 or 4 at Crawley then that HAS to be unsurvivable doesn't it?
Still, Forest and Hudders right now do look like the games to watch.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 24, 2019 12:29:26 GMT
I think he'll survive tonight whatever the weather but lose Friday and he's gone. Even if we got hammered tonight you reckon he'd survive? Not saying we will and I don't think we will (infact I'm going for a 2-1 victory for us) but if the absolute unthinkable happened and we got drubbed 3 or 4 at Crawley then that HAS to be unsurvivable doesn't it? Still, Forest and Hudders right now do look like the games to watch.
A hammering would probably be hard to come back from, you're right.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Sept 24, 2019 12:38:13 GMT
But surely on the back of his record already his position becomes untenable🤔 I think he'll survive tonight whatever the weather but lose Friday and he's gone. What if they win well tonight and then lose on Friday? The difficulty for Nathan is that the pressure is being cranked up on some tough games. 80 minutes with 10 men against in-form Bristol City, a tricky away game against a Brentford team that hammered Derby in their last home game then a TV game against a Nottingham Forest team unbeaten in the last 5, 6th in the table who have only conceded 6 goals in 8 games. I wouldn't like to have to win that match on Friday night to save my job.
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Post by Olgrligm on Sept 24, 2019 12:42:29 GMT
If he picked a mix of reserves and kiddies tonight and they lost, I cant really see why that would make any difference whatsoever.
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Post by lordb on Sept 24, 2019 12:42:39 GMT
Everton are not going to turn to Chris Hughton. You are probably right. I just gave it as an example of the sort of club Hughton is probably waiting for, who get into heavy water and decide to change manager, rather than a club at the foot of the Championship. Which Premier club would go for Hughton? can't see it
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 24, 2019 12:45:05 GMT
I think he'll survive tonight whatever the weather but lose Friday and he's gone. What if they win well tonight and then lose on Friday? The difficulty for Nathan is that the pressure is being cranked up on some tough games. 80 minutes with 10 men against in-form Bristol City, a tricky away game against a Brentford team that hammered Derby in their last home game then a TV game against a Nottingham Forest team unbeaten in the last 5, 6th in the table who have only conceded 6 goals in 8 games. I wouldn't like to have to win that match on Friday night to save my job. We've got to start winning some time Okie, and those sound an awful lot like excuses for the results in the other games. We can't keep losing. Unfortunately for him, tonight isn't really much of a situation. Win and you only do what's expected. Lose and it's another psychological blow and further feeds into the crisis narrative.
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Post by lordb on Sept 24, 2019 12:45:37 GMT
three games in 8 days
definitive spell either way, win all three & he can fairly say a corner has been turned (& fair play if he achieves that) no wins at all & he's gone by Weds 02nd October
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 24, 2019 12:45:47 GMT
If he picked a mix of reserves and kiddies tonight and they lost, I cant really see why that would make any difference whatsoever. You don't think a defeat to a League 2 club in our current predicament, irrespective of the team we put out, would be damaging?
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Sept 24, 2019 12:48:35 GMT
If he picked a mix of reserves and kiddies tonight and they lost, I cant really see why that would make any difference whatsoever. Seriously🤔
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Post by rawli on Sept 24, 2019 12:49:20 GMT
You are probably right. I just gave it as an example of the sort of club Hughton is probably waiting for, who get into heavy water and decide to change manager, rather than a club at the foot of the Championship. Which Premier club would go for Hughton? can't see it Sheff Utd or possibly Villa if they lost their manager.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 24, 2019 12:50:40 GMT
Which Premier club would go for Hughton? can't see it Sheff Utd or possibly Villa if they lost their manager. Sheff Utd maybe given the ownership situation. Don't see Villa sacking Smith even if they go down.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Sept 24, 2019 12:55:48 GMT
What if they win well tonight and then lose on Friday? The difficulty for Nathan is that the pressure is being cranked up on some tough games. 80 minutes with 10 men against in-form Bristol City, a tricky away game against a Brentford team that hammered Derby in their last home game then a TV game against a Nottingham Forest team unbeaten in the last 5, 6th in the table who have only conceded 6 goals in 8 games. I wouldn't like to have to win that match on Friday night to save my job. We've got to start winning some time Okie, and those sound an awful lot like excuses for the results in the other games. We can't keep losing. Unfortunately for him, tonight isn't really much of a situation. Win and you only do what's expected. Lose and it's another psychological blow and further feeds into the crisis narrative. Absolutely agree. I'm a lot less confident now than I was after the draw against Derby obviously. The plan seems to have been dropped and we've stopped creating chances. I think that under normal circumstances a draw against Forest on Friday isn't a bad result. Under the current situation though, is it enough for NJ? Personally I think they'll leave any decision until the next international break now. If we lose against both Forest and Huddersfield I don'r think they will have any choice other than to make the change. My feeling is then that it would be the third coming of the messiah.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2019 12:59:57 GMT
Pieters and Bojan didn't want to be here so they were rightly let go. That is just a complete lie. They both stayed when the manager didn't want them until it became clear over a period that they weren't going to be used. Up until he landed in the bomb squad, Bojan was holding back on offers.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 24, 2019 13:06:26 GMT
We've got to start winning some time Okie, and those sound an awful lot like excuses for the results in the other games. We can't keep losing. Unfortunately for him, tonight isn't really much of a situation. Win and you only do what's expected. Lose and it's another psychological blow and further feeds into the crisis narrative. Absolutely agree. I'm a lot less confident now than I was after the draw against Derby obviously. The plan seems to have been dropped and we've stopped creating chances. I think that under normal circumstances a draw against Forest on Friday isn't a bad result. Under the current situation though, is it enough for NJ? Personally I think they'll leave any decision until the next international break now. If we lose against both Forest and Huddersfield I don'r think they will have any choice other than to make the change. My feeling is then that it would be the third coming of the messiah. With a draw it would very much depend on the performance I think. A cowering, hanging on draw where we play deep and create nothing at home would almost be like a defeat. Some semblance of something to build on would scrape him through probably. If we can't get Hughton or Moyes it's hard to shake the feeling we'll end up stuck with Pulis again.
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Post by dirtygary69 on Sept 24, 2019 13:10:23 GMT
If he picked a mix of reserves and kiddies tonight and they lost, I cant really see why that would make any difference whatsoever. You don't think a defeat to a League 2 club in our current predicament, irrespective of the team we put out, would be damaging? I think any defeat at the moment would be damaging, but I don't think it'd see him sacked tonight. If they haven't wanted to boot him so far, I don't see why it'd be a cup game that would sway them. It'd 100% sway me and I'd have sacked him already but I'm looking at it from the board's POV.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Sept 24, 2019 13:19:00 GMT
Absolutely agree. I'm a lot less confident now than I was after the draw against Derby obviously. The plan seems to have been dropped and we've stopped creating chances. I think that under normal circumstances a draw against Forest on Friday isn't a bad result. Under the current situation though, is it enough for NJ? Personally I think they'll leave any decision until the next international break now. If we lose against both Forest and Huddersfield I don'r think they will have any choice other than to make the change. My feeling is then that it would be the third coming of the messiah. With a draw it would very much depend on the performance I think. A cowering, hanging on draw where we play deep and create nothing at home would almost be like a defeat. Some semblance of something to build on would scrape him through probably. If we can't get Hughton or Moyes it's hard to shake the feeling we'll end up stuck with Pulis again. Let's hope he pulls something out of the bag then ;-) Personally, I think I might rather have Moyes than Hughton. This squad should be in contention for promotion and I think DM is a better bet if we got promoted at some point.
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