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Post by RAF on Sept 19, 2019 23:05:28 GMT
No they haven't due to the state they were left in by him. Bit like us after Hughes went mental. In answer to your question, not the same one who twatted Liverpool 6-1. On a similar note Middlesbrough haven't moved on with the help of the dossier have they? And they have one of the best and most loyal Chairmen in the the business. H Glad you agree it wasn't by the same manager who beat Liverpool 6-1. It was by the same manager who won an FA Cup semi final 5-0 Pulis' last two years were pretty shit, however the 'mess' he left us included: Butland Wilko Shawcross Huth Whelan N'Zonzi Walters Crouch. I'd love to be back in a mess like that. It's much less messy than Berahino, Wimmer, Imbula and Wollschied wouldn't you agree? Yeah the same bloke that got twatted 5-0 at Bolton and 7-0 at Chelsea. No less messy just more expensive. H
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Post by FullerMagic on Sept 20, 2019 8:09:40 GMT
Spinksy again mentions Huddersfield as the potentially key fixture.It's obviously the most winnable of the next 4 - but I'm really not sure he could survive defeats against Brentford and Forest to even get there? (and Crawley is a wild card too) www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stoke-city-joe-allen-fans-3339607The current thinking appears to be that barring a disastrous defeat, Jones will probably survive until the next break after the next four league games. One fixture continues to leap off the page, however, and that is Huddersfield at home, the last but one of those four games. The result of that one could well determine his short-term fate if Stoke win, but his long-term fate if Stoke lose.
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Post by gingerninja on Sept 20, 2019 8:31:10 GMT
I really can't see how they can justify keeping him if we don't acrue points in our next 2 games. That would leave us with 1 point from a possible 27, coupled with last season's record, surely indefensible?. I am still convinced Hughton will be in charge within the week.
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Post by Onneravineet on Sept 20, 2019 9:03:29 GMT
Spinksy again mentions Huddersfield as the potentially key fixture.It's obviously the most winnable of the next 4 - but I'm really not sure he could survive defeats against Brentford and Forest to even get there? (and Crawley is a wild card too) www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stoke-city-joe-allen-fans-3339607The current thinking appears to be that barring a disastrous defeat, Jones will probably survive until the next break after the next four league games. One fixture continues to leap off the page, however, and that is Huddersfield at home, the last but one of those four games. The result of that one could well determine his short-term fate if Stoke win, but his long-term fate if Stoke lose. Cheers FM, as always! My issue with lines such as those that Spinks trots out at times like these is that how can such a BIG decision really be down to whether he gets a result in a game or even a few on the bounce. That always smacks of knee jerk. If true, that approach cost us big time with Hughes, as a purple patch in the Anfield Semi Final season saved him from the chop. All that was proven was that the purple patch masked abject management and allowed a deeper hole to be dug! So that is where I am, there are enough errors and nonsensical judgements to prove the guy is unfortunately out of his depth.
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Post by lordb on Sept 20, 2019 9:16:01 GMT
I really can't see how they can justify keeping him if we don't acrue points in our next 2 games. That would leave us with 1 point from a possible 27, coupled with last season's record, surely indefensible?. I am still convinced Hughton will be in charge within the week. Two defeats before Forest yes he must be toast (?) Obviously two wins and he won't be Draw at Brentford and a lame win at Crawley, probably wouldn't go either?
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 20, 2019 9:56:32 GMT
It will take a cup defeat to get Coates to wake from his slumber.
My prediction is a heavy defeat on Saturday and he will be gone Monday morning.
And for the mentally challenged, that is a prediction not what I want.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Sept 20, 2019 10:26:45 GMT
It will take a cup defeat to get Coates to wake from his slumber. My prediction is a heavy defeat on Saturday and he will be gone Monday morning. And for the mentally challenged, that is a prediction not what I want. Pugs it doesn’t quite make you mystic meg to say if we get battered tomorrow he’s likely to be gone but at least it’s a prediction 😏
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Post by dirtygary69 on Sept 20, 2019 10:27:41 GMT
Spinksy again mentions Huddersfield as the potentially key fixture.It's obviously the most winnable of the next 4 - but I'm really not sure he could survive defeats against Brentford and Forest to even get there? (and Crawley is a wild card too) www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stoke-city-joe-allen-fans-3339607The current thinking appears to be that barring a disastrous defeat, Jones will probably survive until the next break after the next four league games. One fixture continues to leap off the page, however, and that is Huddersfield at home, the last but one of those four games. The result of that one could well determine his short-term fate if Stoke win, but his long-term fate if Stoke lose. What would beating Huddersfield even prove though? That we can beat a side as equally as shit as us?
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Post by thestatusquo on Sept 20, 2019 10:33:53 GMT
Spinksy again mentions Huddersfield as the potentially key fixture.It's obviously the most winnable of the next 4 - but I'm really not sure he could survive defeats against Brentford and Forest to even get there? (and Crawley is a wild card too) www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stoke-city-joe-allen-fans-3339607The current thinking appears to be that barring a disastrous defeat, Jones will probably survive until the next break after the next four league games. One fixture continues to leap off the page, however, and that is Huddersfield at home, the last but one of those four games. The result of that one could well determine his short-term fate if Stoke win, but his long-term fate if Stoke lose. What would beating Huddersfield even prove though? That we can beat a side as equally as shit as us? One would imagine they’ll be thinking exactly the same thing!!
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 20, 2019 10:35:55 GMT
It will take a cup defeat to get Coates to wake from his slumber. My prediction is a heavy defeat on Saturday and he will be gone Monday morning. And for the mentally challenged, that is a prediction not what I want. Pugs it doesn’t quite make you mystic meg to say if we get battered tomorrow he’s likely to be gone but at least it’s a prediction 😏 I didn't say if we get battered, I said we will!
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 20, 2019 10:37:27 GMT
Spinksy again mentions Huddersfield as the potentially key fixture.It's obviously the most winnable of the next 4 - but I'm really not sure he could survive defeats against Brentford and Forest to even get there? (and Crawley is a wild card too) www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stoke-city-joe-allen-fans-3339607The current thinking appears to be that barring a disastrous defeat, Jones will probably survive until the next break after the next four league games. One fixture continues to leap off the page, however, and that is Huddersfield at home, the last but one of those four games. The result of that one could well determine his short-term fate if Stoke win, but his long-term fate if Stoke lose. IMHO ... Heavy defeat on Saturday and he's definitely toast. Any defeat on Saturday (depending on the manner) and he's probably gone too.
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Post by scfcno1fan on Sept 20, 2019 10:50:20 GMT
Spinksy again mentions Huddersfield as the potentially key fixture.It's obviously the most winnable of the next 4 - but I'm really not sure he could survive defeats against Brentford and Forest to even get there? (and Crawley is a wild card too) www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stoke-city-joe-allen-fans-3339607The current thinking appears to be that barring a disastrous defeat, Jones will probably survive until the next break after the next four league games. One fixture continues to leap off the page, however, and that is Huddersfield at home, the last but one of those four games. The result of that one could well determine his short-term fate if Stoke win, but his long-term fate if Stoke lose. IMHO ... Heavy defeat on Saturday and he's definitely toast. Any defeat on Saturday (depending on the manner) and he's probably gone too. I didn’t originally think this, but I’m now thinking the same. I’m not even sure a draw will be enough.....
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Post by chigstoke on Sept 20, 2019 10:50:42 GMT
Spinksy again mentions Huddersfield as the potentially key fixture.It's obviously the most winnable of the next 4 - but I'm really not sure he could survive defeats against Brentford and Forest to even get there? (and Crawley is a wild card too) www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stoke-city-joe-allen-fans-3339607The current thinking appears to be that barring a disastrous defeat, Jones will probably survive until the next break after the next four league games. One fixture continues to leap off the page, however, and that is Huddersfield at home, the last but one of those four games. The result of that one could well determine his short-term fate if Stoke win, but his long-term fate if Stoke lose. IMHO ... Heavy defeat on Saturday and he's definitely toast. Any defeat on Saturday (depending on the manner) and he's probably gone too. Has to be.
A win against Huddersfield and a loss against the other 3 from tomorrow onwards will prove nothing other than we can beat the joint worst team in the league. They can't afford to leave it to fester too long. Especially when you have Chris Hughton without a job.
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Post by tony1234 on Sept 20, 2019 11:27:15 GMT
The decision to axe Jones can't just be on one game aka Brentford.
At season start, i proposed Jones needs targets which represent thresholds below which he cannot fall - falling belong them would be simply unacceptable. Something like below would a) accept a slow start with a team that was still gelling, b)... but not allow unmitigated disaster and no sign of any effective change. Ultimately, it c) accepts a mid placed finish, given the building job, but also d) expects a demonstration of steady improvement that we all need to see. Its subjective, but to me, that felt that a fair and balanced set of targets given he inherits a difficult challenge, but also inherited a team that had - despite all the noise - won more than it had lost. He has since had unqualified and unprecendented support by having 1/2 season to find a system, over 20m to spend and the support to bring in 12 new players.
10g =10pts 20g = 22pts 30g = 36pts 40g = 50pts 46g = 60pts
So the reason to sack him would be if we couldn't get to 10pts after 10games - which means he needs to win the next 3. Then we move to the next target if he achieves that. Having milestones/targets like this stops knee jerk reactions. But if we don't hit 10pts after 10g, its really not acceptable any more - it would be failure, and there are no excuses.
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Post by nott1 on Sept 20, 2019 11:31:54 GMT
FFS put him out of his misery before it's too late!
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Post by FullerMagic on Sept 20, 2019 12:09:35 GMT
Spinksy again mentions Huddersfield as the potentially key fixture.It's obviously the most winnable of the next 4 - but I'm really not sure he could survive defeats against Brentford and Forest to even get there? (and Crawley is a wild card too) www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stoke-city-joe-allen-fans-3339607The current thinking appears to be that barring a disastrous defeat, Jones will probably survive until the next break after the next four league games. One fixture continues to leap off the page, however, and that is Huddersfield at home, the last but one of those four games. The result of that one could well determine his short-term fate if Stoke win, but his long-term fate if Stoke lose. IMHO ... Heavy defeat on Saturday and he's definitely toast. Any defeat on Saturday (depending on the manner) and he's probably gone too. Yeah - I think he's definitely at the stage where one particularly bad loss will 100% do for him. But how bad any individual defeat would have to be to meet the threshold is anyone's guess? 2-0? 3-0? Spinksy has clearly had the international break whispered into his shell-like again - but we must be perilously close to the point where any individual, bog-standard defeat would finish him off. Think we can assume Pejic would have got rid of him several weeks ago!
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Sept 20, 2019 12:12:21 GMT
If we are losing the next two games we are going down, so he may as well stay anyway
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Sept 20, 2019 12:14:14 GMT
The decision to axe Jones can't just be on one game aka Brentford. At season start, i proposed Jones needs targets which represent thresholds below which he cannot fall - falling belong them would be simply unacceptable. Something like below would a) accept a slow start with a team that was still gelling, b)... but not allow unmitigated disaster and no sign of any effective change. Ultimately, it c) accepts a mid placed finish, given the building job, but also d) expects a demonstration of steady improvement that we all need to see. Its subjective, but to me, that felt that a fair and balanced set of targets given he inherits a difficult challenge, but also inherited a team that had - despite all the noise - won more than it had lost. He has since had unqualified and unprecendented support by having 1/2 season to find a system, over 20m to spend and the support to bring in 12 new players. 10g =10pts 20g = 22pts 30g = 36pts 40g = 50pts 46g = 60pts So the reason to sack him would be if we couldn't get to 10pts after 10games - which means he needs to win the next 3. Then we move to the next target if he achieves that. Having milestones/targets like this stops knee jerk reactions. But if we don't hit 10pts after 10g, its really not acceptable any more - it would be failure, and there are no excuses. I wish you were employed by the club mate, seriously
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Post by chigstoke on Sept 20, 2019 12:24:35 GMT
IMHO ... Heavy defeat on Saturday and he's definitely toast. Any defeat on Saturday (depending on the manner) and he's probably gone too. Yeah - I think he's definitely at the stage where one particularly bad loss will 100% do for him. But how bad any individual defeat would have to be to meet the threshold is anyone's guess? 2-0? 3-0? Spinksy has clearly had the international break whispered into his shell-like again - but we must be perilously close to the point where any individual, bog-standard defeat would finish him off. Think we can assume Pejic would have got rid of him several weeks ago! It shouldn't even be a case of bad loss really. A loss is a loss, regardless of the scoreline or way we play. The ability to see games out or come back is really biting us hard on the backside.
Even a 1-0 loss or draw really should be the end. We have to get a win tomorrow. We need the 3pts now, not in two weeks time against Huddersfield. Draw or lose, get rid. We made the leave it too late mistake once, let's not do it again.
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Post by thevoid on Sept 20, 2019 12:45:05 GMT
No they haven't due to the state they were left in by him. Bit like us after Hughes went mental. In answer to your question, not the same one who twatted Liverpool 6-1. On a similar note Middlesbrough haven't moved on with the help of the dossier have they? And they have one of the best and most loyal Chairmen in the the business. H Glad you agree it wasn't by the same manager who beat Liverpool 6-1. It was by the same manager who won an FA Cup semi final 5-0 Pulis' last two years were pretty shit, however the 'mess' he left us included: Butland Wilko Shawcross Huth Whelan N'Zonzi Walters Crouch. I'd love to be back in a mess like that. It's much less messy than Berahino, Wimmer, Imbula and Wollschied wouldn't you agree? For every 5-0 Wembley win there's a 0-5 loss at Bolton a few months later, which ended Bolton's record of 8 straight home defeats I believe
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Post by tony1234 on Sept 20, 2019 12:49:30 GMT
The decision to axe Jones can't just be on one game aka Brentford. At season start, i proposed Jones needs targets which represent thresholds below which he cannot fall - falling belong them would be simply unacceptable. Something like below would a) accept a slow start with a team that was still gelling, b)... but not allow unmitigated disaster and no sign of any effective change. Ultimately, it c) accepts a mid placed finish, given the building job, but also d) expects a demonstration of steady improvement that we all need to see. Its subjective, but to me, that felt that a fair and balanced set of targets given he inherits a difficult challenge, but also inherited a team that had - despite all the noise - won more than it had lost. He has since had unqualified and unprecendented support by having 1/2 season to find a system, over 20m to spend and the support to bring in 12 new players. 10g =10pts 20g = 22pts 30g = 36pts 40g = 50pts 46g = 60pts So the reason to sack him would be if we couldn't get to 10pts after 10games - which means he needs to win the next 3. Then we move to the next target if he achieves that. Having milestones/targets like this stops knee jerk reactions. But if we don't hit 10pts after 10g, its really not acceptable any more - it would be failure, and there are no excuses. I wish you were employed by the club mate, seriously That's very kind. I'd do it for free. And then get a dozen from the Oatcake in too to create an advisory panel to the board and manager! While there would inevitably be a disagreement, the collective wisdom would at least stop the car crashes and see a plan created. You'd be more than welcome too!! Makes you wonder what voices they listen to, if any.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 20, 2019 12:50:06 GMT
The decision to axe Jones can't just be on one game aka Brentford. At season start, i proposed Jones needs targets which represent thresholds below which he cannot fall - falling belong them would be simply unacceptable. Something like below would a) accept a slow start with a team that was still gelling, b)... but not allow unmitigated disaster and no sign of any effective change. Ultimately, it c) accepts a mid placed finish, given the building job, but also d) expects a demonstration of steady improvement that we all need to see. Its subjective, but to me, that felt that a fair and balanced set of targets given he inherits a difficult challenge, but also inherited a team that had - despite all the noise - won more than it had lost. He has since had unqualified and unprecendented support by having 1/2 season to find a system, over 20m to spend and the support to bring in 12 new players. 10g =10pts 20g = 22pts 30g = 36pts 40g = 50pts 46g = 60pts So the reason to sack him would be if we couldn't get to 10pts after 10games - which means he needs to win the next 3. Then we move to the next target if he achieves that. Having milestones/targets like this stops knee jerk reactions. But if we don't hit 10pts after 10g, its really not acceptable any more - it would be failure, and there are no excuses. Your post is contradictory Tony. You say the reason we should sack him, is if he can't achieve 10pts from the first 10 games but you also say, that the decision to axe him, can't be based on just the Brentford game. Well if we don't win tomorrow, then we can't meet your threshold of 10 points in the first 10 games, ergo, by your OWN reckoning, he's finished if we don't get three points, erm ... against Brentford.
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Post by GeneralFaye on Sept 20, 2019 13:10:37 GMT
Heavy defeat tomorrow, and I'm expecting us to concede at least 3, then I think he'll be sacked.
If Hughton really is a possibility then I don't know what we're waiting for, Jones has been a shambolic failure.
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Post by chigstoke on Sept 20, 2019 13:17:20 GMT
Heavy defeat tomorrow, and I'm expecting us to concede at least 3, then I think he'll be sacked. If Hughton really is a possibility then I don't know what we're waiting for, Jones has been a shambolic failure. I fully expect us to get slaughtered tomorrow if Brentford can be arsed to get out of 2nd gear. Potential for Stoke to be absolutely creampied by 5pm. Cannot see where the next win is coming from at all.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Sept 20, 2019 14:36:55 GMT
Pugs it doesn’t quite make you mystic meg to say if we get battered tomorrow he’s likely to be gone but at least it’s a prediction 😏 I didn't say if we get battered, I said we will! Sorry I know you think we will miss Joe terribly and I agree but try and have a little faith it’s an opportunity for others to step in
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 20, 2019 14:50:52 GMT
I didn't say if we get battered, I said we will! Sorry I know you think we will miss Joe terribly and I agree but try and have a little faith it’s an opportunity for others to step in Cracking bait you’ll soon be winding them in
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Post by tony1234 on Sept 20, 2019 14:52:40 GMT
The decision to axe Jones can't just be on one game aka Brentford. At season start, i proposed Jones needs targets which represent thresholds below which he cannot fall - falling belong them would be simply unacceptable. Something like below would a) accept a slow start with a team that was still gelling, b)... but not allow unmitigated disaster and no sign of any effective change. Ultimately, it c) accepts a mid placed finish, given the building job, but also d) expects a demonstration of steady improvement that we all need to see. Its subjective, but to me, that felt that a fair and balanced set of targets given he inherits a difficult challenge, but also inherited a team that had - despite all the noise - won more than it had lost. He has since had unqualified and unprecendented support by having 1/2 season to find a system, over 20m to spend and the support to bring in 12 new players. 10g =10pts 20g = 22pts 30g = 36pts 40g = 50pts 46g = 60pts So the reason to sack him would be if we couldn't get to 10pts after 10games - which means he needs to win the next 3. Then we move to the next target if he achieves that. Having milestones/targets like this stops knee jerk reactions. But if we don't hit 10pts after 10g, its really not acceptable any more - it would be failure, and there are no excuses. Your post is contradictory Tony. You say the reason we should sack him, is if he can't achieve 10pts from the first 10 games but you also say, that the decision to axe him, can't be based on just the Brentford game. Well if we don't win tomorrow, then we can't meet your threshold of 10 points in the first 10 games, ergo, by your OWN reckoning, he's finished if we don't get three points, erm ... against Brentford. Yes - can see that's confusing, sorry. There seemed to be a thought that we sack him if we lose against Brentford, but that begs the perfectly reasonable question of "so what happens if we win?" What then? Win or lose, its so easy to get sucked up into the moment. Win - and its so tempting to think - (or hope) - we've turned a corner. If we lose, but its down to another mistake, or we hit a post etc, its tempting for some to just think "ah, the win is coming, give him another game or two." So, was suggesting that the answer to the question shouldn't really be determined by the next game anyway, its too emotional, but rather against a set of targets that are set out beforehand. Losing against Brentford and failing the 10pt/10game target is one and the same in this case, you are right. My point though was that we should be saying not "he needs to beat Brentford" but rather "he now needs to win 3 on the trot starting with Brentford". And then if he hits that target (huge 'if'), he then needs 12pts from the next 10games. Fail at any points, and he's out and noone can really say its bad luck. Perhaps in really exceptional circumstances, we might offer a bit of slack around that - beat Brentford 3-0 playing very well, then draw 2-2 with Forest having outplayed then, he gets another game against Huddersfield to show its a real upturn and we can reset the target to, say, 15pts after 15 games, but other than that....
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 20, 2019 15:04:22 GMT
Your post is contradictory Tony. You say the reason we should sack him, is if he can't achieve 10pts from the first 10 games but you also say, that the decision to axe him, can't be based on just the Brentford game. Well if we don't win tomorrow, then we can't meet your threshold of 10 points in the first 10 games, ergo, by your OWN reckoning, he's finished if we don't get three points, erm ... against Brentford. Yes - can see that's confusing, sorry. There seemed to be a thought that we sack him if we lose against Brentford, but that begs the perfectly reasonable question of "so what happens if we win?" What then? Win or lose, its so easy to get sucked up into the moment. Win - and its so tempting to think - (or hope) - we've turned a corner. If we lose, but its down to another mistake, or we hit a post etc, its tempting for some to just think "ah, the win is coming, give him another game or two." So, was suggesting that the answer to the question shouldn't really be determined by the next game anyway, its too emotional, but rather against a set of targets that are set out beforehand. Losing against Brentford and failing the 10pt/10game target is one and the same in this case, you are right. My point though was that we should be saying not "he needs to beat Brentford" but rather "he now needs to win 3 on the trot starting with Brentford". And then if he hits that target (huge 'if'), he then needs 12pts from the next 10games. Fail at any points, and he's out and noone can really say its bad luck. So what your saying then then is ... Lose or draw against Brentford and he's toast. Win against Brentford but lose or draw against Forest, then he's still toast. Win against Brentford AND win against Forest but lose or draw against Huddersfield, well even then, he's out of the door, as we'd still have amassed only 7 or 8 points from 10 games. Using your formula, then his future WILL be decided on each individual game over the next three matches, simply fail to win each and every one and it's bye, bye Nathan ...
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Post by kidcrewbob on Sept 20, 2019 15:06:02 GMT
he's had 2 matches too long already IMHO - all this wait another match, heavy or close defeat etc is neither here nor there....but as ever we dither on
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Post by boothenesque on Sept 20, 2019 15:23:51 GMT
Glad you agree it wasn't by the same manager who beat Liverpool 6-1. It was by the same manager who won an FA Cup semi final 5-0 Pulis' last two years were pretty shit, however the 'mess' he left us included: Butland Wilko Shawcross Huth Whelan N'Zonzi Walters Crouch. I'd love to be back in a mess like that. It's much less messy than Berahino, Wimmer, Imbula and Wollschied wouldn't you agree? For every 5-0 Wembley win there's a 0-5 loss at Bolton a few months later, which ended Bolton's record of 8 straight home defeats I believe "For every 5-0 Wembley win there's a 0-5 loss" :-) I think a 5-0 Wembley win considerably outweighs a 5-0 league loss away from home, when we had 3 games in 7 days with being in the UEFA competition. Give Pulis a break ffs, compared to all managers in not only recent history, say since Macari he stands head and shoulders above all of them. Yes frustrating, yes sometimes/often the football was dire but we won, arguably past sell-by but can't we give the guys the respect and dignity he earned and deserves? Now the football is dire and we lose, is that any better? How long before we're beating Arse, L'Pool, Chelsea and ManU again?
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