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Post by FullerMagic on Sept 9, 2019 13:28:49 GMT
Yeah , I was massively up for QSF. And would've been equally up for a punt on some up-and-coming 33yo Bundesliga II wunderkind when we went with Rowett or Jones. But do you think we could attract a foreign manager of the right quality now? Suppose it's possible in as much as Barnsley went for Stendel who did very well for them. But would the calibre we could attract this time around be complete shots in the dark? Anyone with sufficient track record in Germany, or France , or Spain to tickle our fancy as enough of a sure thing would fancy they could get a better gig at the moment. Reluctantly, I'm not sure taking a flier on one is really what's needed now and I'd be happy to get a Hughton, Moyes or Neil. I think we probably could - Wednesday weren’t flying when they appointed Carvalhal or whatever his name is and Reading seem to have made a reasonable appointment despite being in the doldrums of the division. There’s just no sense we have the contacts or the willingness to find one though. Given the malaise it does look like it needs and experienced hand on the wheel for a bit. Yep - interesting CV the Reading manager has got! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/José_Manuel_GomesJust not sure even with our greater profile, we could really get someone on the tier above that who'd be more than an interesting punt at the moment. I just went through the first few pages of unemployed managers and couldn't pinpoint anyone realistic www.transfermarkt.co.uk/trainer/verfuegbaretrainer/statistikAnd even if Jon was up for it, would Peter let him at this stage? I'd be happy to bank a solid, boring non-Pulis Brit this time around if we could - although in general I'm normally mad for a Boskamp-like gamble.
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Post by spitthedog on Sept 9, 2019 13:44:01 GMT
He can surely only be given 2 more games, any more would be too risky. What would be the minimum points required from these 2 games to secure his job? I would say 3. We have to win one of these 2 games surely. I think a loss to Bristol City would be the end, a draw might just save him for the time being. A win would probably save him for another dozen games.
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Post by chigstoke on Sept 9, 2019 13:51:28 GMT
Christ on a bike! You are slating Coates and fans for Xenophobia! And yet you are obviously a big fan of Jones who is probably our most Xenophobic manager to date. He has stated he wants British only players, fucked off all the foreigners bar one (even Verlinden), his first xi includes just one foreigner, Etebo, and non of his 12 recruits were from overseas. Perhaps you should be calling for Jones to broaden his horizons, most managers at this level will look at overseas recruitment and it works if done properly I'm not a big fan of Jones (I've said he was a risky appointment from the outset), I am concerned about his apparent British only transfer policy, I don't think Peter Coates is xenophobic but I do think a good number of posters on here are. The reason I would prefer to stick with Jones is that the disruption of yet another manager is as likely to result in us going backwards as it is forwards, the thing he has got right in his recruitment is understanding the importance of good character and I still think he could get a tune out of a pretty decent Championship quality squad. Also if you look at the that list of alternatives it's depressingly awful. I seriously would prefer relegation under Jones than be bored stupid by the as appointment of Tony Pulis or some other footballing dinosaur. I'd say most of us were more than happy with QSF when he was 99% a done deal, I don't think a lot of the posters are Xenophobic in that none of us want a foreign manager. Like FM said, if we'd have gone for some Bundesliga II, Ekstraklasa style appointment when we went down I don't think people would have been too miffed, we'd been crying out for a change since around 2016 when Hughes really started to lose sanity. We knew it wouldn't happen though because we know the Coates record for hiring British managers. Admittedly Jones was absolutely a step in the right direction, but it is not working right now.
I just could not stomach relegation with him though. If it took a Hughton to drag us out the shit heap, so be it.
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Post by gingerninja on Sept 9, 2019 13:59:14 GMT
You would think project or no project a loss to Bristol would be fatal?. 1 point from 21 would surely be unacceptable coupled with his overall record since January..I think by the fact that he is publicly asking for time along with the fact that the club haven't commented makes me think he has been cold he's on borrowed time?
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Post by thevoid on Sept 9, 2019 14:39:09 GMT
People saying they'd stick with Jones even if it meant relegation? Are you fucking mental? Not only would it be wholly unacceptable, it could ruin the club financially. 6 games does not mean relegation Have they said that?
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Post by thevoid on Sept 9, 2019 14:45:49 GMT
There appears to be a weird feedback loop with Peter Coates. I don't think The Coates family are part of project Little Britain - like the majority of successful business people they recognise the importance of an international outlook - and I get that there are many leavers who think the same - but I suspect they are in the minority. However I worry that Coates might be factoring in the Little Britain mentality of a lot of Stoke City supporters when making management appointments - which if true would be tragic. Whenever I see the line "Peter Coates would only appoint a British manager" I read that as code for "I don't want to admit I'm a bit xenophobic and so I'll blame Peter Coates for only considering British applicants - and if he does go foreign I'll go full on Little Britain on his ass". Which foreign candidates in particular do you think we should be looking at - that you think would be prepared to come? That's the Chief Exec's job. Barnsley attracted a foreign manager who improved them and got them up from League One. Huddersfield got Wagner as a lower-end Championship side. Reading (perennial Championship strugglers) seem to have found one who's doing a job and brought in some cheap foreign talent. Norwich with Farke. Foreign managers are eager to have a crack at England, the rest is down to people paid more handsomely than you or I
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Post by chigstoke on Sept 9, 2019 14:48:04 GMT
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Post by thevoid on Sept 9, 2019 14:49:08 GMT
Another 6? A further 6 after that? You aren't relegated until you're relegated but we're already as good as three wins adrift just to get out the bottom three when you take other clubs' results into consideration. I can't see us getting one win, let alone get a consistent run of form going. It's how long you give it until you think, "Oh shit, we are in trouble." If we don't improve results and position before the tenth game, I think he'll be gone. And I think any heavy defeat or dire performance whilst we're down at the bottom end in the meantime could see him gone too. I don't blame people for believing in him but there's a point where you need to consider the future of the club and how long it will take A.N other to turn it around, should we need to go that way. If we're stuck on, say, 3 points after 10 games and are 8-10 points adrift, goodness knows where confidence is going to be within the squad and good luck to anyone coming in and turning that around. It's difficult but I don't think we can afford to be reactive, we have to be proactive and make the decision before it makes itself. We have key players to come back into the team from injuries & other tournaments (powell, Eton & N'diaye). Shawcross the club captain cannot of helped matters defensively, we have never looked good for a period of time without him in the team. There is no way we are going down, the players are too good, it's a case of getting a win or 2 and the confidence boost that comes with it. Changing manager everytime you hit a bad run of form is not the answer You seem to think a manager with 3 wins in 26 will suddenly pull the same amount out of the hat in short order. As for being too good to go down, utter nonsense. Results, performances and lack of personnel recruited to suit his preferred way of playing suggest otherwise.
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Post by thevoid on Sept 9, 2019 14:54:36 GMT
I think we probably could - Wednesday weren’t flying when they appointed Carvalhal or whatever his name is and Reading seem to have made a reasonable appointment despite being in the doldrums of the division. There’s just no sense we have the contacts or the willingness to find one though. Given the malaise it does look like it needs and experienced hand on the wheel for a bit. Yep - interesting CV the Reading manager has got! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/José_Manuel_GomesJust not sure even with our greater profile, we could really get someone on the tier above that who'd be more than an interesting punt at the moment. I just went through the first few pages of unemployed managers and couldn't pinpoint anyone realistic www.transfermarkt.co.uk/trainer/verfuegbaretrainer/statistikAnd even if Jon was up for it, would Peter let him at this stage? I'd be happy to bank a solid, boring non-Pulis Brit this time around if we could - although in general I'm normally mad for a Boskamp-like gamble. Boskamp did a reasonable job given the circumstances he inherited. Nine first teamers available, no previous English experience and a board who'd lost interest? Second best away record in the division if memory serves.
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Post by berahinosgoals on Sept 9, 2019 14:56:48 GMT
6 games does not mean relegation Have they said that? They dont need to spell it out, but yes it has been mentioned on more than a few occasions.
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Post by berahinosgoals on Sept 9, 2019 14:57:42 GMT
We have key players to come back into the team from injuries & other tournaments (powell, Eton & N'diaye). Shawcross the club captain cannot of helped matters defensively, we have never looked good for a period of time without him in the team. There is no way we are going down, the players are too good, it's a case of getting a win or 2 and the confidence boost that comes with it. Changing manager everytime you hit a bad run of form is not the answer You seem to think a manager with 3 wins in 26 will suddenly pull the same amount out of the hat in short order. As for being too good to go down, utter nonsense. Results, performances and lack of personnel recruited to suit his preferred way of playing suggest otherwise. Rubbish. We are more than capable of turning it around. 6 games into a new season we are (six), with 10 new players.
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Post by FullerMagic on Sept 9, 2019 15:02:55 GMT
Yep - interesting CV the Reading manager has got! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/José_Manuel_GomesJust not sure even with our greater profile, we could really get someone on the tier above that who'd be more than an interesting punt at the moment. I just went through the first few pages of unemployed managers and couldn't pinpoint anyone realistic www.transfermarkt.co.uk/trainer/verfuegbaretrainer/statistikAnd even if Jon was up for it, would Peter let him at this stage? I'd be happy to bank a solid, boring non-Pulis Brit this time around if we could - although in general I'm normally mad for a Boskamp-like gamble. Boskamp did a reasonable job given the circumstances he inherited. Nine first teamers available, no previous English experience and a board who'd lost interest? Second best away record in the division if memory serves. I agree. I liked him. But I think we'll be looking for more than an interesting looking punt at this stage - and I'm not sure we could get one in that market of second and third-tier foreign options. I think they'd see the likes of Hughton, Moyes, Neil ( and even Pulis) as much more of a sure thing who've been over the course and distance -and I don't really think they'd be wrong this time around.
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Post by chigstoke on Sept 9, 2019 15:04:56 GMT
Yep - interesting CV the Reading manager has got! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/José_Manuel_GomesJust not sure even with our greater profile, we could really get someone on the tier above that who'd be more than an interesting punt at the moment. I just went through the first few pages of unemployed managers and couldn't pinpoint anyone realistic www.transfermarkt.co.uk/trainer/verfuegbaretrainer/statistikAnd even if Jon was up for it, would Peter let him at this stage? I'd be happy to bank a solid, boring non-Pulis Brit this time around if we could - although in general I'm normally mad for a Boskamp-like gamble. Boskamp did a reasonable job given the circumstances he inherited. Nine first teamers available, no previous English experience and a board who'd lost interest? Second best away record in the division if memory serves. Mad Man Johan. 5-1 against Brighton, 4-1 against Ipswich, 3-2 against Luton, some absolutely mad scorelines under him. Considering he mustn't have known what the word defend means we got some great wins.
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Post by thevoid on Sept 9, 2019 15:12:27 GMT
You seem to think a manager with 3 wins in 26 will suddenly pull the same amount out of the hat in short order. As for being too good to go down, utter nonsense. Results, performances and lack of personnel recruited to suit his preferred way of playing suggest otherwise. Rubbish. We are more than capable of turning it around. 6 games into a new season we are (six), with 10 new players. On what evidence are you basing this on?
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Post by berahinosgoals on Sept 9, 2019 15:15:05 GMT
Rubbish. We are more than capable of turning it around. 6 games into a new season we are (six), with 10 new players. On what evidence are you basing this on? The fact we have started this season with 10 new players and we are only 6 games in. Last season has nothing to do with this one. There are decent players in this squad and it's only a matter of time before the tide turns
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2019 15:23:52 GMT
On what evidence are you basing this on? The fact we have started this season with 10 new players and we are only 6 games in. Last season has nothing to do with this one. There are decent players in this squad and i t's only a matter of time before the tide turnsAh so it's just tired cliches you're basing it on. Fantastic.
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Post by berahinosgoals on Sept 9, 2019 15:25:46 GMT
The fact we have started this season with 10 new players and we are only 6 games in. Last season has nothing to do with this one. There are decent players in this squad and i t's only a matter of time before the tide turnsAh so it's just tired cliches you're basing it on. Fantastic. What are you basing it on? Last season when we have half a new squad this one? Or the 6 games they have all had for them to settle in? Pathetic.
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Post by thevoid on Sept 9, 2019 15:28:02 GMT
On what evidence are you basing this on? The fact we have started this season with 10 new players and we are only 6 games in. Last season has nothing to do with this one. There are decent players in this squad and it's only a matter of time before the tide turns So no evidence, merely wishful thinking then. How come these new players seem incapable of playing the manager's preferred style? And when do we expect everything to click into place and us to suddenly play like 1950s Hungary then, Nostradamus?
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Post by berahinosgoals on Sept 9, 2019 15:30:06 GMT
The fact we have started this season with 10 new players and we are only 6 games in. Last season has nothing to do with this one. There are decent players in this squad and it's only a matter of time before the tide turns So no evidence, merely wishful thinking then. How come these new players seem incapable of playing the manager's preferred style? And when do we expect everything to click into place and us to suddenly play like 1950s Hungary then, Nostradamus? I dont know, same could be said for changing the manager what makes you so sure it wont be a complete dogs dinner?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2019 15:31:10 GMT
Ah so it's just tired cliches you're basing it on. Fantastic. What are you basing it on? Last season when we have half a new squad this one? Or the 6 games they have all had for them to settle in? Pathetic. Those new players he's not even playing? That don't fit into his system? Those that need settling in you mean? Funny how we need all the time in the world but there are a number of other clubs who've had a number of players but have managed not to go to complete shit.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 9, 2019 15:31:55 GMT
I'm not a big fan of Jones (I've said he was a risky appointment from the outset), I am concerned about his apparent British only transfer policy, I don't think Peter Coates is xenophobic but I do think a good number of posters on here are. The reason I would prefer to stick with Jones is that the disruption of yet another manager is as likely to result in us going backwards as it is forwards, the thing he has got right in his recruitment is understanding the importance of good character and I still think he could get a tune out of a pretty decent Championship quality squad. Also if you look at the that list of alternatives it's depressingly awful. I seriously would prefer relegation under Jones than be bored stupid by the as appointment of Tony Pulis or some other footballing dinosaur. Most people have chosen British contenders on this list widely in the expectation that they’re the realistic options given who’s in charge. What’s the point of voting for the bloke in charge of Dortmund u23s when there’s no prospect of him being appointed? This is a poll - not a betting slip. If someone asked me to put a bet on who we would appoint I'd weigh things up and probably put my money on a British dinosaur - probably Moyes. If you are asking me who I'd like I'd seriously look at the CV of Dortmund's u23s on the basis that German coaches are streets ahead of their British counterparts and certainly more forward thinking than any if the top 4 on that list. Surely you can dream of a glass of champagne with Mila Kunis before settling for a swig of red wine from Sam Allardyce's half empty third bottle of the afternoon?
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Post by thevoid on Sept 9, 2019 15:41:19 GMT
So no evidence, merely wishful thinking then. How come these new players seem incapable of playing the manager's preferred style? And when do we expect everything to click into place and us to suddenly play like 1950s Hungary then, Nostradamus? I dont know, same could be said for changing the manager what makes you so sure it wont be a complete dogs dinner? Well any change carries an element of risk, as does failure to act in some cases. Or should no club in the history of football replace their failing manager based on your criteria? But at least we've established that this sudden turnaround in fortune you're predicting is based on absolutely nothing.
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Post by thevoid on Sept 9, 2019 15:44:31 GMT
Boskamp did a reasonable job given the circumstances he inherited. Nine first teamers available, no previous English experience and a board who'd lost interest? Second best away record in the division if memory serves. Mad Man Johan. 5-1 against Brighton, 4-1 against Ipswich, 3-2 against Luton, some absolutely mad scorelines under him. Considering he mustn't have known what the word defend means we got some great wins. Breath of fresh air after the Binary Season
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 9, 2019 16:06:30 GMT
Most people have chosen British contenders on this list widely in the expectation that they’re the realistic options given who’s in charge. What’s the point of voting for the bloke in charge of Dortmund u23s when there’s no prospect of him being appointed? This is a poll - not a betting slip. If someone asked me to put a bet on who we would appoint I'd weigh things up and probably put my money on a British dinosaur - probably Moyes. If you are asking me who I'd like I'd seriously look at the CV of Dortmund's u23s on the basis that German coaches are streets ahead of their British counterparts and certainly more forward thinking than any if the top 4 on that list. Surely you can dream of a glass of champagne with Mila Kunis before settling for a swig of red wine from Sam Allardyce's half empty third bottle of the afternoon? You can, but it seems a particularly pointless pursuit - we might as well have Pep and Klopp on the poll as that's just as likely to happen? It's nothing to do with a betting slip - surely it's a lot more interesting in context to see which of the likely candidates people would be up for us appointing? You've got more chance with Mila than we have of appointing Allardyce, but that's by the by.
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Post by silsdenstokie on Sept 9, 2019 16:16:22 GMT
Mad Man Johan. 5-1 against Brighton, 4-1 against Ipswich, 3-2 against Luton, some absolutely mad scorelines under him. Considering he mustn't have known what the word defend means we got some great wins. Breath of fresh air after the Binary Season Falling out big time with his assistant and Rudgey at half time at Coventry, calling Bangoura a shit guy live on air....he was certainly entertaining if nothing else! Never great defensively though which was surprising given he ended up with Big Gerry and Noel assisting him
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Post by thevoid on Sept 9, 2019 16:20:37 GMT
Breath of fresh air after the Binary Season Falling out big time with his assistant and Rudgey at half time at Coventry, calling Bangoura a shit guy live on air....he was certainly entertaining if nothing else! Never great defensively though which was surprising given he ended up with Big Gerry and Noel assisting him It was certainly never dull 😎
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Post by tony1234 on Sept 9, 2019 16:29:07 GMT
Now we've got a top 4 (Hughton, Pulis, Allardyce, Moyes) that doesn't look likely to change... - Interesting that they are all late 50 odd and older! A craving for experience and wisdom it seems. Of those 4, would probably put Pulis as the favourite, though sense divided opinion and baggage might stop that happening. So, the other interesting - and signficantly different - question is "who do we think we will get?". Accounting for a) board sentiments - once bitten twice shy. b) We've had mixed luck at getting our first picks of late, c) We're probably a little less of a catch than 15 mths ago - and the job is less appealing with so much to sort out. The continental selection - Puel, Karanka, Di Matteo Old British hands:- Pardew, O'Neill, Adkins, Pearson, McClaran Something to prove: Sol Campbell, Chris Powell, Darren Moore, Derek McInnes The leftfield moderniser (aka "WTF is he?"):- Pablo Machin (ex Sevilla), Oscar Garcia (ex Olympiakos), Tedesco (Schalke), Sadly I think that sums it up. I don't think there could have been a more depressingly boring and unimaginative top 4 had the poll been entitled "Who would you go for as the most depressingly boring and unimaginative manager ever?" Top work. This thread is sponsored by Mogadon. Music by Dinosaur Junior. A Sad Bastard Production from the Association of Registered Goat Slaughters Chin up fella, we could have Alex McLeish on there!
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 10, 2019 13:15:34 GMT
This is a poll - not a betting slip. If someone asked me to put a bet on who we would appoint I'd weigh things up and probably put my money on a British dinosaur - probably Moyes. If you are asking me who I'd like I'd seriously look at the CV of Dortmund's u23s on the basis that German coaches are streets ahead of their British counterparts and certainly more forward thinking than any if the top 4 on that list. Surely you can dream of a glass of champagne with Mila Kunis before settling for a swig of red wine from Sam Allardyce's half empty third bottle of the afternoon? You can, but it seems a particularly pointless pursuit - we might as well have Pep and Klopp on the poll as that's just as likely to happen? It's nothing to do with a betting slip - surely it's a lot more interesting in context to see which of the likely candidates people would be up for us appointing? You've got more chance with Mila than we have of appointing Allardyce, but that's by the by. If I've got more chance with Mila than Allardyce being appointed how on earth can you claim that is a realistic list? Unless you know something about Mila's romantic intentions towards me - in which case quite frankly I don't care who we appoint - but if that is going to happen then please do add Klopp to the list - I'm obviously on a roll.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 10, 2019 14:44:41 GMT
You can, but it seems a particularly pointless pursuit - we might as well have Pep and Klopp on the poll as that's just as likely to happen? It's nothing to do with a betting slip - surely it's a lot more interesting in context to see which of the likely candidates people would be up for us appointing? You've got more chance with Mila than we have of appointing Allardyce, but that's by the by. If I've got more chance with Mila than Allardyce being appointed how on earth can you claim that is a realistic list? Unless you know something about Mila's romantic intentions towards me - in which case quite frankly I don't care who we appoint - but if that is going to happen then please do add Klopp to the list - I'm obviously on a roll. Allardyce is an exception. He's the kind of manager the regime would go for so in that sense he's in that mould. But he wouldn't take the job in a million years.
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Sept 10, 2019 15:28:31 GMT
On what evidence are you basing this on? The fact we have started this season with 10 new players and we are only 6 games in. Last season has nothing to do with this one. There are decent players in this squad and it's only a matter of time before the tide turns
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