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Post by crouchpotato1 on Aug 27, 2019 10:25:03 GMT
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Post by Gods on Aug 27, 2019 10:36:26 GMT
I didn't know Nathan won 17 of his first 30 at Luton , I had fully signed up to the popular narrative that it all took time.
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Post by cousindupree on Aug 27, 2019 10:42:44 GMT
The win over Leeds is certainly the highlight of Jones's tenure at Stoke. In all honesty he had only just walked through the door and sat at his desk so not sure just how much that performance was attributed to him.
After that once his pyschobabble tactics scrambled the players thought process the following results and performances were awful and have continued just with the odd plucky draw thrown in. New players and pre season has only seen the decline continue. It's hard to see exactly what can change to turn this around. Certainly bringing in someone he knows to head up recruitment is yet another mistake made by the board.
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Post by thehoof on Aug 27, 2019 10:49:09 GMT
That “psychobabble” is a great word.
If nothing else, our fall from grace has produced that word anyway!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2019 10:54:22 GMT
The Leeds win was directly as a result of spy gate.
If that hadn't have happened Jones would have stuck with the tactics he used at Brentford and we'd have got beat, I'm convinced of that
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Post by serpico on Aug 27, 2019 11:05:24 GMT
From hi Wikipedia page
On 6 January 2016, Jones left his role as first-team coach with Brighton to become the new manager of League Two club Luton Town on a two-and-a-half-year contract.[23] He won 11 of his 21 matches in charge during the remainder of 2015–16, guiding the club away from the danger of relegation to an 11th-place finish.[24]
Jones made wholesale changes to Luton's squad ahead of 2016–17, releasing 12 players and signing eight new ones.[25][26][27][28] Jones' Luton team spent only one week of the season outside the top seven positions,[29] while he also led the club to the semi-final of the EFL Trophy.[30] He signed a new three-and-a-half-year contract with the club on 20 March 2017.[31] Luton finished the 2016–17 season in fourth place, but were beaten 6–5 on aggregate by Blackpool in the play-off semi-final, meaning they would compete the 2017–18 season in League Two again.[32][33]
Jones stated his ambition to go one step further and win promotion to League One in 2017–18, saying: "This year we can't have excuses, can't have that naivety about us, can't allow teams to nick draws and cost us our ultimate goal."[34] His summer recruitment was focused on signing experienced players who had previously won promotion, and he succeeded in doing this when signing Alan McCormack, James Collins and Marek Štěch.[34] Luton began the season with an 8–2 home win over Yeovil Town to set a club record for their biggest margin of victory on the opening day of a season.[35][36] Jones was named the League Two Manager of the Month for October 2017 after Luton recorded three wins, one draw and one defeat,[37] including a 7–1 home victory over Stevenage.[38] He would go on to win the award for the second successive month, in which Luton achieved three wins in four league matches, including a 7–0 home win over Cambridge United, scoring 14 goals to climb to the top of the table on goal difference.[39] Luton's win over Cambridge meant they became the first team in the history of the English Football League to score seven or more goals on three occasions before Christmas.[40] They were also the highest-scoring team in the country in early December with 63 goals in all competitions, one more than Manchester City who were top of the Premier League.[41] Jones was nominated for League Two Manager of the Month for the third month in succession,[42] which was awarded to Danny Cowley of Lincoln City.[43] Luton topped the table until a 2–1 home defeat to Accrington Stanley in March 2018 saw them drop to second place for the first time since 21 November 2017, behind Accrington.[44] The club did, however, win promotion to League One on 21 April 2018 after a 10-year absence following a 1–1 draw away to Carlisle United.[45] A week later, they secured a second-place finish in the table with a 3–1 home victory over Forest Green Rovers.[46] After four wins and one draw in April, Jones was named the League Two Manager of the Month for the third time in 2017–18.[47]
Jones continued to take Luton on an upward trajectory during the 2018–19 season, leading the club to second place in League One by January 2019 with the highest number of goals scored, before being approached by Championship club Stoke City. He left Luton with the highest Football League points per game ratio of any manager in their history.[48]
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Post by jezzascfc on Aug 27, 2019 11:27:23 GMT
Smudge is another coming round to thinking that he needs to pick what he thinks is his best team and formation and stick with it.
This is the only logical course of action for Jones to adopt. Anything else shows weakness and indecision and will continue to confuse the players.
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Post by sneydgreenstokie1 on Aug 27, 2019 11:28:05 GMT
So, the mighty Swansea are some distance above us in the league.
They cleared the decks as quickly as possible and took a risk on an up and coming manager.
We are a season behind them in reality but it can be done.
Perhaps we need to take a bigger hit on some players.
They were willing to take a huge on hit on Clucas for him to come to us
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Post by Gods on Aug 27, 2019 11:31:35 GMT
That “psychobabble” is a great word. If nothing else, our fall from grace has produced that word anyway! Yes, I'm afraid "psychobabble tactics" may end up on his headstone. As Trousers said in his own inimitable style we need a basic formation that even the thickest player can understand. |
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Post by jezzascfc on Aug 27, 2019 11:31:38 GMT
So, the mighty Swansea are some distance above us in the league. They cleared the decks as quickly as possible and took a risk on an up and coming manager. We are a season behind them in reality but it can be done. Perhaps we need to take a bigger hit on some players. They were willing to take a huge on hit on Clucas for him to come to us Imbula going for 4 mill suggests that is now part of the plan, albeit a year late! |
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Post by stiggerstackle on Aug 27, 2019 11:36:34 GMT
Smudge is another coming round to thinking that he needs to pick what he thinks is his best team and formation and stick with it. This is the only logical course of action for Jones to adopt. Anything else shows weakness and indecision and will continue to confuse the players. When this was being discussed last week people were screaming 'squad rotation' - squad rotation needs to wait until we have a settled team around which to rotate. Anything else is just wholesale chop'n'change that leads to a bunch of strangers having a kick about. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2019 11:48:29 GMT
Smudge is another coming round to thinking that he needs to pick what he thinks is his best team and formation and stick with it. This is the only logical course of action for Jones to adopt. Anything else shows weakness and indecision and will continue to confuse the players. When this was being discussed last week people were screaming 'squad rotation' - squad rotation needs to wait until we have a settled team around which to rotate. Anything else is just wholesale chop'n'change that leads to a bunch of strangers having a kick about. Our 'squad rotation' though, seems to actually be player selection using a tombola drum. |
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Post by dirtygary69 on Aug 27, 2019 12:04:22 GMT
When this was being discussed last week people were screaming 'squad rotation' - squad rotation needs to wait until we have a settled team around which to rotate. Anything else is just wholesale chop'n'change that leads to a bunch of strangers having a kick about. Our 'squad rotation' though, seems to actually be player selection using a tombola drum. Other posters have pointed out elsewhere that we have too many players to keep happy if anything. I didn't want us signing any old shit in pre-season but I am concerned there's not any one player getting a more sustained run than anybody else - outside of Clucas, McClean and probably Lindsay. On the one hand you have to give players a chance to get into their stride but on the other (in the cases of Allen, Batth, Clucas etc) you need to make decisions in a proactive way rather than a reactive one. We could all tell Allen should have been dropped after Charlton away yet only when he made an unforgivable error at Preston was he dropped. Vokes and Powell didn't even make the squad last game and I thought those two would be our main players this season. In Vokes' case he's clearly under-performed but some of the lads must be wondering what on earth they've joined. There just doesn't seem to be any sort of thought behind a lot of it. There will be some big egos in that dressing room who at the very least will be expecting minutes every game and there's conceivably 3 or 4 a game that won't be getting minutes when they probably had options elsewhere. There's a way to rotate your squad and it's not like this. It's just another thing he needs to get on top of, and fast. |
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Post by serpico on Aug 27, 2019 12:25:30 GMT
The best we’ve played this season was against derby so I’d suggest he picks that side for the next 5 home games, away from home he could experiment a bit.
If he ever plays 5 at the back with a DM at home again though he deserves a torrent of abuse, we were playing Leeds not man city! Yes Leeds are decent but we’re a recently relegated premiership side, they should be fearing us!
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Post by stiggerstackle on Aug 27, 2019 12:28:37 GMT
The best we’ve played this season was against derby so I’d suggest he picks that side for the next 5 home games, away from home he could experiment a bit. If he ever plays 5 at the back with a DM at home again though he deserves a torrent of abuse, we were playing Leeds not man city! Yes Leeds are decent but we’re a recently relegated premiership side, they should be fearing us! The days of anybody fearing us are long gone I'm afraid... |
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Post by Veritas on Aug 27, 2019 12:46:40 GMT
The best we’ve played this season was against derby so I’d suggest he picks that side for the next 5 home games, away from home he could experiment a bit. If he ever plays 5 at the back with a DM at home again though he deserves a torrent of abuse, we were playing Leeds not man city! Yes Leeds are decent but we’re a recently relegated premiership side, they should be fearing us! We are a recently bottom half Championship side! |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2019 12:49:00 GMT
The best we’ve played this season was against derby so I’d suggest he picks that side for the next 5 home games, away from home he could experiment a bit. If he ever plays 5 at the back with a DM at home again though he deserves a torrent of abuse, we were playing Leeds not man city! Yes Leeds are decent but we’re a recently relegated premiership side, they should be fearing us! "They should be fearing us" is an attitude that's get you relegated |
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Post by serpico on Aug 27, 2019 13:05:16 GMT
The best we’ve played this season was against derby so I’d suggest he picks that side for the next 5 home games, away from home he could experiment a bit. If he ever plays 5 at the back with a DM at home again though he deserves a torrent of abuse, we were playing Leeds not man city! Yes Leeds are decent but we’re a recently relegated premiership side, they should be fearing us! "They should be fearing us" is an attitude that's get you relegated I mean we should be making it so they fear us with good reason, not purely because we’re ex premier league and we have a right to beat them. He should have saved Saturday’s team for tonight’s game and played something similar to the derby line up on Saturday, we played well against derby. |
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Post by cerebralstokie on Aug 27, 2019 13:17:43 GMT
I was surprised when he made so many changes for the Leeds game. I was fairly happy with the way we played against Derby - the main failing being conceding an early goal as we have in most games so far. Why he didn't use the team chosen to play Derby and make a couple of changes where he thought the team could be improved is beyond me. I think we miss Shawcross at the back - our defence was O.K. for most of the second half of last season and he makes up with experience what he lacks in pace. As for handing the captaincy to Collins in such an important game I don't know. What will it do to the lad's confidence in leading the team to such a heavy defeat? Just a few thoughts like.
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Post by march4 on Aug 27, 2019 13:21:03 GMT
The win over Leeds is certainly the highlight of Jones's tenure at Stoke. In all honesty he had only just walked through the door and sat at his desk so not sure just how much that performance was attributed to him. After that once his pyschobabble tactics scrambled the players thought process the following results and performances were awful and have continued just with the odd plucky draw thrown in. New players and pre season has only seen the decline continue. It's hard to see exactly what can change to turn this around. Certainly bringing in someone he knows to head up recruitment is yet another mistake made by the board. Well said. This Director of Football appointment simply has to be delayed. It is crazy to make such a decision in the middle of a crisis. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2019 13:34:09 GMT
In citing Leeds as a team to compare us with, it's worth remembering that they weren't actually a success last season, despite playing a quality that would put many a PL team to shame. They didn't get promoted and were struggling at times towards the end of the season.
But for once in their lives, they didn't panic but kept faith with the manager who had "failed".
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2019 13:41:08 GMT
In citing Leeds as a team to compare us with, it's worth remembering that they weren't actually a success last season, despite playing a quality that would put many a PL team to shame. They didn't get promoted and were struggling at times towards the end of the season. But for once in their lives, they didn't panic but kept faith with the manager who had "failed". The manager who had one preseason and got them absolutely flying who, but for, an injury crisis and a some goal keeping howlers probably should have got them promoted with the vast majority of the squad they already have and not having had to buy 11 new players. If you are going to compare us to another team at least make it reasonable. Narrowly missing out on promotion is not quite the same as 3 wins in however many it was and being sat rock bottom of the Championship with 1 point. |
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Post by mcw on Aug 27, 2019 13:45:56 GMT
In citing Leeds as a team to compare us with, it's worth remembering that they weren't actually a success last season, despite playing a quality that would put many a PL team to shame. They didn't get promoted and were struggling at times towards the end of the season. But for once in their lives, they didn't panic but kept faith with the manager who had "failed". Crikey, I have heard some things but to suggest that Bielsa had "failed" last season is crackers. They were not a team that was fancied for promotion at the beginning and his appointment was viewed with a mixture of disbelief/optimism by some and ridicule by others. He massively over-achieved and was unlucky not to get them promoted, which over the course of the season would have been well merited. Now he is kicking on, whether it lasts who knows. "Failing" to get promotion is totally different to "failing" to get more than 3 wins in 26 and recently 1 draw in 5. |
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Post by serpico on Aug 27, 2019 13:53:48 GMT
The win over Leeds is certainly the highlight of Jones's tenure at Stoke. In all honesty he had only just walked through the door and sat at his desk so not sure just how much that performance was attributed to him. After that once his pyschobabble tactics scrambled the players thought process the following results and performances were awful and have continued just with the odd plucky draw thrown in. New players and pre season has only seen the decline continue. It's hard to see exactly what can change to turn this around. Certainly bringing in someone he knows to head up recruitment is yet another mistake made by the board. Well said. This Director of Football appointment simply has to be delayed. It is crazy to make such a decision in the middle of a crisis. And it might put a spanner in the works for the return of the 🧢 one ? 😄 |
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Post by march4 on Aug 27, 2019 13:58:02 GMT
Well said. This Director of Football appointment simply has to be delayed. It is crazy to make such a decision in the middle of a crisis. And it might put a spanner in the works for the return of the 🧢 one ? 😄 Hypothetically, if the club did approach TP, would he accept the ‘process’? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2019 14:00:25 GMT
In citing Leeds as a team to compare us with, it's worth remembering that they weren't actually a success last season, despite playing a quality that would put many a PL team to shame. They didn't get promoted and were struggling at times towards the end of the season. But for once in their lives, they didn't panic but kept faith with the manager who had "failed". The manager who had one preseason and got them absolutely flying who, but for, an injury crisis and a some goal keeping howlers probably should have got them promoted with the vast majority of the squad they already have and not having had to buy 11 new players. If you are going to compare us to another team at least make it reasonable. Narrowly missing out on promotion is not quite the same as 3 wins in however many it was and being sat rock bottom of the Championship with 1 point. I didn't make the comparison. But for what it's worth excuses like injuries and goalie howlers are irrelevant. Every team has them. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2019 14:06:34 GMT
In citing Leeds as a team to compare us with, it's worth remembering that they weren't actually a success last season, despite playing a quality that would put many a PL team to shame. They didn't get promoted and were struggling at times towards the end of the season. But for once in their lives, they didn't panic but kept faith with the manager who had "failed". Crikey, I have heard some things but to suggest that Bielsa had "failed" last season is crackers. They were not a team that was fancied for promotion at the beginning and his appointment was viewed with a mixture of disbelief/optimism by some and ridicule by others. He massively over-achieved and was unlucky not to get them promoted, which over the course of the season would have been well merited. Now he is kicking on, whether it lasts who knows. "Failing" to get promotion is totally different to "failing" to get more than 3 wins in 26 and recently 1 draw in 5. I'm a superfan of Bielsa teams. I don't think he was a failure, that's why I put it in inverted commas. I was praising Leeds for keeping faith in a manager who had not delivered what was at one time last season taken for granted. |
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Post by serpico on Aug 27, 2019 14:06:39 GMT
And it might put a spanner in the works for the return of the 🧢 one ? 😄 Hypothetically, if the club did approach TP, would he accept the ‘process’? Good question, also has it put off other managers ? Ie moyes, allardyce and o Neil ? I would think they were all sounded out before Rowett ?... something spooked them ? Is this why we’re ending up with Rowett and jones’ ? |
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