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Post by raythesailor on Aug 18, 2019 8:18:53 GMT
Just watched The Man City v Spurs highlights.
This new rule of accidental handball is plainly stupid. A perfectly good goal dissalowed because the ball accidently and only slightly touches a players arm !! If it was not for VAR it would not have been seen or even considered.
Same last week at Wolves. Spoiling the game.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2019 8:24:42 GMT
It's a dreadfull rule. Players are getting penalised here for having arms. The only way to get around this is by keeping them behind the back or chopping them off. For me, it's about them being in a natural position and intent. It's a rule bought in to take hard work out of decision making. Far easier to govern just whether it hit the arm compared to making a determination in terms of intent.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Aug 18, 2019 8:29:53 GMT
Just watched The Man City v Spurs highlights. This new rule of accidental handball is plainly stupid. A perfectly good goal dissalowed because the ball accidently and only slightly touches a players arm !! If it was not for VAR it would not have been seen or even considered. Same last week at Wolves. Spoiling the game. I agree. Even though in this instance I am happy for Citeh to lose a couple of points as a result. But I don't let that blind me to the fact that the rule is stupid. It is ironic that such a daft rule has been introduced just as VAR has come into the game. In pre VAR days, as you say, the goal would have stood - rule or no rule.
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Post by Dutchpeter on Aug 18, 2019 8:31:18 GMT
It's a dreadfull rule. Players are getting penalised here for having arms. The only way to get around this is by keeping them behind the back or chopping them off. For me, it's about them being in a natural position and intent. It's a rule bought in to take hard work out of decision making. Far easier to govern just whether it hit the arm compared to making a determination in terms of intent. A very good point about decision making. How long did the referee take to book those Derby players yesterday after that touchline fracas? Took ages to consult both linesmen, obviously scared to make a decision.
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Post by binthelplates on Aug 18, 2019 9:16:43 GMT
It's a dreadfull rule. Players are getting penalised here for having arms. The only way to get around this is by keeping them behind the back or chopping them off. For me, it's about them being in a natural position and intent. It's a rule bought in to take hard work out of decision making. Far easier to govern just whether it hit the arm compared to making a determination in terms of intent. A very good point about decision making. How long did the referee take to book those Derby players yesterday after that touchline fracas? Took ages to consult both linesmen, obviously scared to make a decision. And then got then git the colour of the cards wrong........
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2019 9:23:14 GMT
Just watched The Man City v Spurs highlights. This new rule of accidental handball is plainly stupid. A perfectly good goal dissalowed because the ball accidently and only slightly touches a players arm !! If it was not for VAR it would not have been seen or even considered. Same last week at Wolves. Spoiling the game. Of course there were never protests and endless discussions about handball before this new rule... It was difficult to administer the old rule. At least the new one is very clear in stating any handball by an attacker is an offense and a free kick must be given. As it would be if it occured any other place on the pitch without any one blinking an eye...
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Post by Gods on Aug 18, 2019 9:25:24 GMT
The ball hits arms and hands all the time in football, always has done, and since the penalty areas take up a big chunk of the pitch very often it happens there too. It's just more visible now through super slo-mo and about 15 camera angles.
Almost none of them are deliberate and therefore penalties or fouls on the build up to a goal in the original spirit of the law.
It all just seems like a complete nonsense to me.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2019 9:27:51 GMT
Just watched The Man City v Spurs highlights. This new rule of accidental handball is plainly stupid. A perfectly good goal dissalowed because the ball accidently and only slightly touches a players arm !! If it was not for VAR it would not have been seen or even considered. Same last week at Wolves. Spoiling the game. I agree. Even though in this instance I am happy for Citeh to lose a couple of points as a result. But I don't let that blind me to the fact that the rule is stupid. It is ironic that such a daft rule has been introduced just as VAR has come into the game. In pre VAR days, as you say, the goal would have stood - rule or no rule. It's as if they've actually started to invent rules just so they can prove that VAR works. In fact that's exactly what they've done with this rule and also the off side rule which is also a load of bollocks.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2019 9:28:47 GMT
Just watched The Man City v Spurs highlights. This new rule of accidental handball is plainly stupid. A perfectly good goal dissalowed because the ball accidently and only slightly touches a players arm !! If it was not for VAR it would not have been seen or even considered. Same last week at Wolves. Spoiling the game. Of course there were never protests and endless discussions about handball before this new rule... It was difficult to administer the old rule. At least the new one is very clear in stating any handball by an attacker is an offense and a free kick must be given. As it would be if it occured any other place on the pitch without any one blinking an eye... That's where you're wrong because this fucked up ruling only applies if it leads to a goal.
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Post by RF10 on Aug 18, 2019 9:39:41 GMT
VAR was introduced to stop clear and obvious mistakes. Until it's used in this way it will never work.
The offside judgements and handball incident yesterday are showing VAR up to be what a shambles it is. Completely ruining emotions where perfectly good goals should stand.
I'm all for clearing up obvious and non debatable mistakes such as a player being yards offside and getting a goal but to go in such minor detail is ludicrious.
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Post by adamsson on Aug 18, 2019 9:42:28 GMT
It's a dreadfull rule. Players are getting penalised here for having arms. The only way to get around this is by keeping them behind the back or chopping them off. For me, it's about them being in a natural position and intent. It's a rule bought in to take hard work out of decision making. Far easier to govern just whether it hit the arm compared to making a determination in terms of intent. A very good point about decision making. How long did the referee take to book those Derby players yesterday after that touchline fracas? Took ages to consult both linesmen, obviously scared to make a decision. Took ages to make the wrong decision
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Post by boothenboys1863 on Aug 18, 2019 13:29:06 GMT
It’s bollocks it’s zero tolerance on handball to the attacking side but not the same for defending sides so it isn’t 50/50 it favours the defending side in a situation.
There was just one in the Sheffield United game but his hand wasn’t in an unnatural position blocking a shot. Niether was Laportes yesterday it’s complete bollocks!!
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Post by sportsman on Aug 18, 2019 14:16:05 GMT
I don't get how people can say it's wrong? The pillock missed it with his head, it came off his arm and set up a goal. I couldn't give a flying if he never meant it, it came off his arm and set up a goal.
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Post by Royal Donut on Aug 18, 2019 14:21:00 GMT
Records for lowest scoring season coming right up. This rule has made it so much more interesting NOT.
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Post by Big Sam on Aug 18, 2019 14:25:18 GMT
Just watched The Man City v Spurs highlights. This new rule of accidental handball is plainly stupid. A perfectly good goal dissalowed because the ball accidently and only slightly touches a players arm !! If it was not for VAR it would not have been seen or even considered. Same last week at Wolves. Spoiling the game. This new rule and VAR are killing football....glad it’s not in Championship...I’d sooner accept you win some lose some and it balances itself out over a season
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Post by sportsman on Aug 18, 2019 14:31:01 GMT
Just watched The Man City v Spurs highlights. This new rule of accidental handball is plainly stupid. A perfectly good goal dissalowed because the ball accidently and only slightly touches a players arm !! If it was not for VAR it would not have been seen or even considered. Same last week at Wolves. Spoiling the game. This new rule and VAR are killing football....glad it’s not in Championship...I’d sooner accept you win some lose some and it balances itself out over a season Apart from if we had VAR a couple of years ago, huddersfield and not us would have gone down according to someone who posted something a while ago on decisions that season
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Post by mrred on Aug 18, 2019 14:45:48 GMT
Fifa and the FA are getting worse than the FIA for pissing about with the rules.
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 18, 2019 15:05:54 GMT
The rules are being made by people who never played football and I suspect driven by "big money".
As someone referred to above, there is an argument Stoke should not be relegated, which is a bit tenuous, but imagine you are a major investor such as the Glazers, Sheikh Mansour, Fenway, etc. and have spent £100ms on the club, you would not want to see your investment fail because of human error. There is eventually going to be a case of someone taking the authorities to court because of an officials' error which has cost them a massive amount of revenue. I'm sure more and more authority is going to be taken away from the referee and placed in the hands of invisible officials secreted in some room reviewing events. It may all be in the interests of trying to achieve the "correct" decision, but it is also going to be less and less of a sport.
I wish they would review matches with VAR to pick out all those players who fake injury or being fouled and diving, and then give retrospective warnings and fine the club for the behaviour of their players. I know it would have little impact on Man City who could put out 3 Premier League sides and pay £millions in fines, but it might improve the game. generally.
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Post by LiverpoolStokie on Aug 18, 2019 15:17:00 GMT
VAR was introduced to stop clear and obvious mistakes. Until it's used in this way it will never work. The offside judgements and handball incident yesterday are showing VAR up to be what a shambles it is. Completely ruining emotions where perfectly good goals should stand. I'm all for clearing up obvious and non debatable mistakes such as a player being yards offside and getting a goal but to go in such minor detail is ludicrious. I'm with you on this RF10. My understanding is that VAR was introduced to help with clear and obvious mistakes. The handball rule change in respect of penalties and goals scored was introduced (rightly or wrongly) to make such decisions simpler for referees. I think yesterday to two things were conflated. Whilst under the new handball rule it was a clear breach, the question I would ask is was it a clear and obvious mistake? In my view no it wasn't. It happened so quickly and lightly that the ref (i) may have missed it and (ii) may not have perceived it anyway if he had - certainly the TV commentators did not see it and they have massive advantages. I would therefore really ask if this was a clear and obvious mistake and in my view no - its not that the ref was looking at a situation where the ball was clearly struck against an arm and chose to not give it. I think the Prem are stuck with it for now (two goals already been disallowed) but I can see discontent developing over the season and a look again at it at the end.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2019 15:26:23 GMT
Something seems absurdly odd that the Man City supporters had a full last minute mental, only to discover minutes later that the goal and victory they’d fully celebrated had been subsequently ruled out. I’m not saying it’s “wrong” per se, just insanely creepy. I don’t think I’ll ever get used to it.
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Post by heworksardtho on Aug 18, 2019 15:31:27 GMT
Just watched The Man City v Spurs highlights. This new rule of accidental handball is plainly stupid. A perfectly good goal dissalowed because the ball accidently and only slightly touches a players arm !! If it was not for VAR it would not have been seen or even considered. Same last week at Wolves. Spoiling the game. VAR doesn’t make the handball rule it just sees it 😎
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Post by raythesailor on Aug 18, 2019 15:44:04 GMT
Just watched The Man City v Spurs highlights. This new rule of accidental handball is plainly stupid. A perfectly good goal dissalowed because the ball accidently and only slightly touches a players arm !! If it was not for VAR it would not have been seen or even considered. Same last week at Wolves. Spoiling the game. VAR doesn’t make the handball rule it just sees it 😎 Never suggested that it did. Please reread my post.🤓
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Post by AlliG on Aug 18, 2019 18:55:16 GMT
Something seems absurdly odd that the Man City supporters had a full last minute mental, only to discover minutes later that the goal and victory they’d fully celebrated had been subsequently ruled out. I’m not saying it’s “wrong” per se, just insanely creepy. I don’t think I’ll ever get used to it. I got home yesterday from the match in time to watch the last 30 minutes on the telly, saw Man City score to make it 3-2, watched the celebrations and a couple of replays of the goal and then assuming that Man City were going to win 3-2 I turned over to watch the Test Match highlights. As you can imagine I was a bit confused when I turned the telly on this morning to see the experts discussing a 2-2 draw.
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Post by bhp on Aug 18, 2019 18:58:27 GMT
The handball law has effectively got 2 interpretations now depending if you're an attacker or a defender. If that was the other way around the defender wouldn't have been penalised
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Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 18, 2019 19:00:44 GMT
It's cack.
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Post by eriksson74 on Aug 18, 2019 19:02:11 GMT
Just watched The Man City v Spurs highlights. This new rule of accidental handball is plainly stupid. A perfectly good goal dissalowed because the ball accidently and only slightly touches a players arm !! If it was not for VAR it would not have been seen or even considered. Same last week at Wolves. Spoiling the game. Of course there were never protests and endless discussions about handball before this new rule... It was difficult to administer the old rule. At least the new one is very clear in stating any handball by an attacker is an offense and a free kick must be given. As it would be if it occured any other place on the pitch without any one blinking an eye... Wrong, if the defender had accidentally touched it like laporte, nothing is given. It's not a fair rule and only changed to make a decision black or white. What if the spurs defender had done it and it broke to a spurs player on the edge if the box, who ran length of pitch and scored. Would it be a penalty??
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Post by tejstokie on Aug 18, 2019 19:35:51 GMT
The handball law has effectively got 2 interpretations now depending if you're an attacker or a defender. If that was the other way around the defender wouldn't have been penalised That is the problem with any regulation or law that is a simple phrase or meaning like the new handball rule. It is then inevitably torn into personal subjective reasoning beyond all recognition or intention of the rule in the first place because each crew is different, each game situation different. All this whiny interpretation is exactly what I said would happen. It has ruined other sports like the NFL and it is a damn shame it has come to the PL. Watch every little minute detail in a 20 sec build up become part of the goal scoring opportunity like a sherlock holmes inquiry.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Aug 18, 2019 20:11:20 GMT
One of the best aspects of playing or watching football is the debate about an incident/decision.
Goal line technology for me is fine.
IMHO
1. The new handball rule is unnecessary and illogical
2. VAR will sanitise football and in the long run adversely affect football as a spectator sport
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Aug 18, 2019 20:36:24 GMT
Just watched The Man City v Spurs highlights. This new rule of accidental handball is plainly stupid. A perfectly good goal dissalowed because the ball accidently and only slightly touches a players arm !! If it was not for VAR it would not have been seen or even considered. Same last week at Wolves. Spoiling the game. Of course there were never protests and endless discussions about handball before this new rule... It was difficult to administer the old rule. At least the new one is very clear in stating any handball by an attacker is an offense and a free kick must be given. As it would be if it occured any other place on the pitch without any one blinking an eye... You are quite right. Handball has long been one of the most ambiguous areas of the laws, with endless arguments about what constitutes the 'natural position' of arms and what 'deliberate' means. I'm not sure that the new law will improve things, it remains to be seen, but I think some of the criticism after yesterday's decision fails to take account of that. Also, the suggestion that IFAB decisions are made without thought by idiots who don't understand football is unfair. They may not have got this right, but they have attempted to apply some principles ( see below) Handball - Law 12 Changes Deliberate handball remains an offence The following ‘handball’ situations, even if accidental, will be a free kick: The ball goes into the goal after touching an attacking player’s hand/arm A player gains control/possession of the ball after it has touches their hand/arm•and then scores, or creates a goal-scoring opportunity The ball touches a player’s hand/arm which has made their body unnaturally bigger The ball touches a player’s hand/arm when it is above their shoulder (unless the player has deliberately played the ball which then touches their hand/arm) The following will not usually be a free kick, unless they are one of the above situations: The ball touches a player’s hand/arm directly from their own head/body/foot or the head/body/foot of another player who is close/near The ball touches a player’s hand/arm which is close to their body and has not made their body unnaturally bigger If a player is falling and the ball touches their hand/arm when it is between their body and the ground to support the body (but not extended to make the body bigger) If the goalkeeper attempts to ‘clear’ (release into play) a throw-in or deliberate kick from a team-mate but the ‘clearance’ fails, the goalkeeper can then handle the ball Explanation Greater clarity is needed for handball, especially on those occasions when ‘non- d•eliberate’ handball is an offence. The re-wording follows a number of principles: Football does not accept a goal being scored by a hand/arm (even if accidental) Football expects a player to be penalised for handball if they gain possession/control of the ball from their hand/arm and gain a major advantage e.g. score or create a goal-scoring opportunity It is natural for a player to put their arm between their body and the ground for support when falling. Having the hand/arm above shoulder height is rarely a ‘natural’ position and a player is ‘taking a risk’ by having the hand/arm in that position, including whensliding If the ball comes off the player’s body, or off another player (of either team) who is•close by, onto the hands/arms it is often impossible to avoid contact with the ball When the GK clearly kicks or tries to kick the ball into play, this shows no intention to handle the ball so, if the ‘clearance’ attempt is unsuccessful, the goalkeeper can then handle the ball without committing an offence
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Post by surreystokie on Aug 18, 2019 20:50:05 GMT
Much common sense spoken about it on this morning’s Sunday Supplement. If using Catch Up, it is at the beginning, after a tribute to Steve Curry, a journalist many of you youngsters won’t remember.
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