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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Nov 22, 2024 8:13:28 GMT
About the only one I didn’t win last year😉 Suppose it depends on what format you’re watching it on. You never know with a dodgy stick Felonious will still win that without posting. They’ll be storming the Oatcake offices for a recount if he wins again  |
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Post by iancransonsknees on Nov 22, 2024 8:18:12 GMT
Felonious will still win that without posting. They’ll be storming the Oatcake offices for a recount if he wins again I am going to suggest to GAWA he's nominated. Even in his absence and lack of posts his silence is often the most erudite contribution made to the drivel that the regulars post (myself included). |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Nov 22, 2024 8:22:12 GMT
They’ll be storming the Oatcake offices for a recount if he wins again I am going to suggest to GAWA he's nominated. Even in his absence and lack of posts his silence is often the most erudite contribution made to the drivel that the regulars post (myself included). Good call that. We could change the title to the “Jeremy Corbyn award for the most intelligent poster” he’d be made up with a nod to the big man. Well deserved too. |
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Post by Gawa on Nov 22, 2024 10:07:52 GMT
I am going to suggest to GAWA he's nominated. Even in his absence and lack of posts his silence is often the most erudite contribution made to the drivel that the regulars post (myself included). Good call that. We could change the title to the “Jeremy Corbyn award for the most intelligent poster” he’d be made up with a nod to the big man. Well deserved too. I'm going for the David Icke award lads, the only one I've got my eyes on this year. Now in other news I've came here to call this Reform MP a woman beaters so stop being nice  |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 22, 2024 10:20:04 GMT
Good call that. We could change the title to the “Jeremy Corbyn award for the most intelligent poster” he’d be made up with a nod to the big man. Well deserved too. I'm going for the David Icke award lads, the only one I've got my eyes on this year. Now in other news I've came here to call this Reform MP a woman beaters so stop being nice When does the voting open? |
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Post by Gawa on Nov 22, 2024 10:24:10 GMT
I'm going for the David Icke award lads, the only one I've got my eyes on this year. Now in other news I've came here to call this Reform MP a woman beaters so stop being nice When does the voting open? Huddy will let you know closer to the time. He is going to be running the polling booth near you. Remember your Id! Which selection boxes are you donating as prizes this year? |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 22, 2024 10:30:13 GMT
When does the voting open? Huddy will let you know closer to the time. He is going to be running the polling booth near you. Remember your Id! Which selection boxes are you donating as prizes this year? It’s been a rough year with the cost of living squeeze but I can probably push to a Selfridges Stupendously Chocolately Festive Treat Bonanza if that’s ok with everyone |
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Nov 24, 2024 14:58:08 GMT
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 24, 2024 15:33:20 GMT
Farage is a class A self serving weapon But I will always be grateful for his contribution in freeing this country from the yoke of European imperialism I agree. Politicians are generally (with the odd exception) only interested in their own fortunes/careers/etc and will change policy if it suits them. They have little loyalty to the constituents who put them their and quickly forget their manifestos. So the public owe no loyalty to them and should not worry about booting them out as they go off into their gravy train careers in the media, or memoirs, or consulting, or lecture tours, etc. with their pension. I supported UKIP and it got us a referendum, I supported Johnson and it got us Brexit, and now I'm supporting Starmer to get public services back on their feet and attract and drive much needed investment in everything that has been dire for the last >30 years. If Starmer delivers he is still not guaranteed my support as I will vote in 2029 (God willing) for whoever proposes what I consider the major priority at that time. If things go true to form by then the unions and loony left will be rearing their heads to oust him and the country will swing back to the right, hopefully not Farage. But I expect by then the Tories will have replaced their leader at least twice and we have no idea today who it might be! If Farage can serve any purpose he might be able to soften the crazy Republicans attitude to the UK next year, but he's more likely to stand back and let Starmer get screwed and hope he can benefit from the result. |
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Post by 4372 on Nov 24, 2024 16:10:08 GMT
Farage is a class A self serving weapon But I will always be grateful for his contribution in freeing this country from the yoke of European imperialism I agree. Politicians are generally (with the odd exception) only interested in their own fortunes/careers/etc and will change policy if it suits them. They have little loyalty to the constituents who put them their and quickly forget their manifestos. So the public owe no loyalty to them and should not worry about booting them out as they go off into their gravy train careers in the media, or memoirs, or consulting, or lecture tours, etc. with their pension. I supported UKIP and it got us a referendum, I supported Johnson and it got us Brexit, and now I'm supporting Starmer to get public services back on their feet and attract and drive much needed investment in everything that has been dire for the last >30 years. If Starmer delivers he is still not guaranteed my support as I will vote in 2029 (God willing) for whoever proposes what I consider the major priority at that time. If things go true to form by then the unions and loony left will be rearing their heads to oust him and the country will swing back to the right, hopefully not Farage. But I expect by then the Tories will have replaced their leader at least twice and we have no idea today who it might be! If Farage can serve any purpose he might be able to soften the crazy Republicans attitude to the UK next year, but he's more likely to stand back and let Starmer get screwed and hope he can benefit from the result. Let's get it right. You were prejudiced against the EU, and made a series of derogatory comments about various EU institutions and leaders. You specifically alleged that one of the founders made anti-democratic statements, and you have failed to fully acknowledge your error there. You have voted to push the UK out of a Union of democratic states which have collaborated to bring peace and prosperity to the continent after centuries of nationalistic conflicts which led to the death of millions of innocent people. You should take no pleasure in spreading anti-EU propaganda. |
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Nov 24, 2024 16:29:15 GMT
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Post by LL Cool Dave on Nov 24, 2024 16:32:49 GMT
Only another 5.1 million to beat the record for the most signed UK petition. That one didn't change anything and neither will this one. |
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Nov 24, 2024 16:39:13 GMT
Only another 5.1 million to beat the record for the most signed UK petition. That one didn't change anything and neither will this one. Yes I agree it’ll change fuck all but it shows how many people are pissed off with the government already |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 24, 2024 16:42:12 GMT
Big Nige still settled into the minds of lefties I see. Rent free of course😏
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Nov 24, 2024 16:57:20 GMT
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Nov 24, 2024 16:58:57 GMT
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Nov 24, 2024 17:06:41 GMT
I've never seen anything like it. |
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Nov 24, 2024 19:41:30 GMT
Just under 1.5 million now
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 24, 2024 22:37:15 GMT
I agree. Politicians are generally (with the odd exception) only interested in their own fortunes/careers/etc and will change policy if it suits them. They have little loyalty to the constituents who put them their and quickly forget their manifestos. So the public owe no loyalty to them and should not worry about booting them out as they go off into their gravy train careers in the media, or memoirs, or consulting, or lecture tours, etc. with their pension. I supported UKIP and it got us a referendum, I supported Johnson and it got us Brexit, and now I'm supporting Starmer to get public services back on their feet and attract and drive much needed investment in everything that has been dire for the last >30 years. If Starmer delivers he is still not guaranteed my support as I will vote in 2029 (God willing) for whoever proposes what I consider the major priority at that time. If things go true to form by then the unions and loony left will be rearing their heads to oust him and the country will swing back to the right, hopefully not Farage. But I expect by then the Tories will have replaced their leader at least twice and we have no idea today who it might be! If Farage can serve any purpose he might be able to soften the crazy Republicans attitude to the UK next year, but he's more likely to stand back and let Starmer get screwed and hope he can benefit from the result. Let's get it right. You were prejudiced against the EU, and made a series of derogatory comments about various EU institutions and leaders. You specifically alleged that one of the founders made anti-democratic statements, and you have failed to fully acknowledge your error there. You have voted to push the UK out of a Union of democratic states which have collaborated to bring peace and prosperity to the continent after centuries of nationalistic conflicts which led to the death of millions of innocent people. You should take no pleasure in spreading anti-EU propaganda. I am against UK membership of the EU. I have no objection to the UK being a member of a trade organization, provided the sovereignty of the HoC is retained, but not a political union with a minority say. I am prejudiced against a corrupt organisation. www.transparency.org/en/gcb/eu/european-union-2021www.ibanet.org/article/8ab9996b-5454-4a7d-a38a-6e376aa310f3I am prejudiced against an undemocratic organisation. When Jeremy Corbyn voted against the Maastricht treaty in 1993, he declared it was because the EU had handed control to " an unelected set of bankers". In 2016 he stated that the EU has “always suffered from a serious democratic deficit”. www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/opinion/columnists/the-eu-has-largely-been-a-driver-for-peace-but-it-is-profoundly-anti-democratic-bill-carmichael-4807060citylawtutors.co.uk/law-journal/democracy-within-the-european-union"The European Parliament ........ is an insult against democracy that exists only to rubber-stamp neoliberal rule." jacobin.com/2019/05/European-union-parliament-elections-antidemocraticThe original concept of economic collaboration to bring interdependence and avoid future war was noble, but it was not necessary to move to an elected parliament which is just a façade for democracy, or a court, or ever increasing centralising of power and control through a succession of treaties at Luxembourg, Maastricht, Amsterdam, and Lisbon each increasing the grip of the EU Commission on trade and the economy, finance/fiscal controls, monetary union, etc. left.eu/six-reasons-the-lisbon-treaty-was-and-still-is-a-bad-idea/After the referendum, those that were in favour of remaining a member showed their true colours and total disregard of sovereignty and contempt for democracy by doing everything they could to undermine the leaving process, giving succour to the EU, and trying to put every obstacle in the way of May's government. |
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Post by 4372 on Nov 24, 2024 23:50:03 GMT
Let's get it right. You were prejudiced against the EU, and made a series of derogatory comments about various EU institutions and leaders. You specifically alleged that one of the founders made anti-democratic statements, and you have failed to fully acknowledge your error there. You have voted to push the UK out of a Union of democratic states which have collaborated to bring peace and prosperity to the continent after centuries of nationalistic conflicts which led to the death of millions of innocent people. You should take no pleasure in spreading anti-EU propaganda. I am against UK membership of the EU. I have no objection to the UK being a member of a trade organization, provided the sovereignty of the HoC is retained, but not a political union with a minority say. I am prejudiced against a corrupt organisation. www.transparency.org/en/gcb/eu/european-union-2021www.ibanet.org/article/8ab9996b-5454-4a7d-a38a-6e376aa310f3I am prejudiced against an undemocratic organisation. When Jeremy Corbyn voted against the Maastricht treaty in 1993, he declared it was because the EU had handed control to " an unelected set of bankers". In 2016 he stated that the EU has “always suffered from a serious democratic deficit”. www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/opinion/columnists/the-eu-has-largely-been-a-driver-for-peace-but-it-is-profoundly-anti-democratic-bill-carmichael-4807060citylawtutors.co.uk/law-journal/democracy-within-the-european-union"The European Parliament ........ is an insult against democracy that exists only to rubber-stamp neoliberal rule." jacobin.com/2019/05/European-union-parliament-elections-antidemocraticThe original concept of economic collaboration to bring interdependence and avoid future war was noble, but it was not necessary to move to an elected parliament which is just a façade for democracy, or a court, or ever increasing centralising of power and control through a succession of treaties at Luxembourg, Maastricht, Amsterdam, and Lisbon each increasing the grip of the EU Commission on trade and the economy, finance/fiscal controls, monetary union, etc. left.eu/six-reasons-the-lisbon-treaty-was-and-still-is-a-bad-idea/After the referendum, those that were in favour of remaining a member showed their true colours and total disregard of sovereignty and contempt for democracy by doing everything they could to undermine the leaving process, giving succour to the EU, and trying to put every obstacle in the way of May's government. No, fundamentally you are against the EU. You have described it as corrupt and anti-democratic. Nearly four years ago now you repeated a slur against one of the Founding Fathers of the EU, without even bothering to check the legitimacy of the source. That's where the prejudice showed itself, and you have struggled to acknowledge that fact. The trouble is that you were wrong about Jean Monnet, and thought you could mislead people. If you were wrong about that, what else were you wrong about? You are also wrong to characterise the events of the May years as being down to Remainer Resistance. That May could make no progress was due in part to tensions between various factions in Parliament. But that Parliament was elected by the people, and reflected the divisions in the country at that time. And of course, Parliament was and is sovereign. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 25, 2024 0:55:03 GMT
Only another 5.1 million to beat the record for the most signed UK petition. That one didn't change anything and neither will this one. Yes I agree it’ll change fuck all but it shows how many people are pissed off with the government already And? Can you genuinely not see what Farage is up to? |
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Post by wannabee on Nov 25, 2024 1:20:47 GMT
I am against UK membership of the EU. I have no objection to the UK being a member of a trade organization, provided the sovereignty of the HoC is retained, but not a political union with a minority say. I am prejudiced against a corrupt organisation. www.transparency.org/en/gcb/eu/european-union-2021www.ibanet.org/article/8ab9996b-5454-4a7d-a38a-6e376aa310f3I am prejudiced against an undemocratic organisation. When Jeremy Corbyn voted against the Maastricht treaty in 1993, he declared it was because the EU had handed control to " an unelected set of bankers". In 2016 he stated that the EU has “always suffered from a serious democratic deficit”. www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/opinion/columnists/the-eu-has-largely-been-a-driver-for-peace-but-it-is-profoundly-anti-democratic-bill-carmichael-4807060citylawtutors.co.uk/law-journal/democracy-within-the-european-union"The European Parliament ........ is an insult against democracy that exists only to rubber-stamp neoliberal rule." jacobin.com/2019/05/European-union-parliament-elections-antidemocraticThe original concept of economic collaboration to bring interdependence and avoid future war was noble, but it was not necessary to move to an elected parliament which is just a façade for democracy, or a court, or ever increasing centralising of power and control through a succession of treaties at Luxembourg, Maastricht, Amsterdam, and Lisbon each increasing the grip of the EU Commission on trade and the economy, finance/fiscal controls, monetary union, etc. left.eu/six-reasons-the-lisbon-treaty-was-and-still-is-a-bad-idea/After the referendum, those that were in favour of remaining a member showed their true colours and total disregard of sovereignty and contempt for democracy by doing everything they could to undermine the leaving process, giving succour to the EU, and trying to put every obstacle in the way of May's government. No, fundamentally you are against the EU. You have described it as corrupt and anti-democratic. Nearly four years ago now you repeated a slur against one of the Founding Fathers of the EU, without even bothering to check the legitimacy of the source. That's where the prejudice showed itself, and you have struggled to acknowledge that fact. The trouble is that you were wrong about Jean Monnet, and thought you could mislead people. If you were wrong about that, what else were you wrong about? You are also wrong to characterise the events of the May years as being down to Remainer Resistance. That May could make no progress was due in part to tensions between various factions in Parliament. But that Parliament was elected by the people, and reflected the divisions in the country at that time. And of course, Parliament was and is sovereign. So many contradictions The EEC forerunner the European Coal and Steel (cough) Community established to eliminate reasons for war conflict in Europe The original brainchild being the venerable Robert Schuman, perhaps he came from the wrong branch of Christianity I have come to the sad conclusion that Britain is not prepared to play nice, even in its own self interest. Maybe it's a hangover from Empire that ceased to exist more than a century ago. |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Nov 25, 2024 6:52:01 GMT
LOL |
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 25, 2024 7:17:17 GMT
Yes I agree it’ll change fuck all but it shows how many people are pissed off with the government already And? Can you genuinely not see what Farage is up to? He wants to avoid paying tax on his £3m worth of agricultural land he bought to avoid tax. |
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Post by elystokie on Nov 25, 2024 7:23:43 GMT
I've never seen anything like it. Brilliant 😀👏 |
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Nov 25, 2024 8:12:00 GMT
Just under 1.5 million now Is there a shortage of plasterers since we left the EU? 😁 |
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 25, 2024 9:29:24 GMT
I am against UK membership of the EU. I have no objection to the UK being a member of a trade organization, provided the sovereignty of the HoC is retained, but not a political union with a minority say. I am prejudiced against a corrupt organisation. www.transparency.org/en/gcb/eu/european-union-2021www.ibanet.org/article/8ab9996b-5454-4a7d-a38a-6e376aa310f3I am prejudiced against an undemocratic organisation. When Jeremy Corbyn voted against the Maastricht treaty in 1993, he declared it was because the EU had handed control to " an unelected set of bankers". In 2016 he stated that the EU has “always suffered from a serious democratic deficit”. www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/opinion/columnists/the-eu-has-largely-been-a-driver-for-peace-but-it-is-profoundly-anti-democratic-bill-carmichael-4807060citylawtutors.co.uk/law-journal/democracy-within-the-european-union"The European Parliament ........ is an insult against democracy that exists only to rubber-stamp neoliberal rule." jacobin.com/2019/05/European-union-parliament-elections-antidemocraticThe original concept of economic collaboration to bring interdependence and avoid future war was noble, but it was not necessary to move to an elected parliament which is just a façade for democracy, or a court, or ever increasing centralising of power and control through a succession of treaties at Luxembourg, Maastricht, Amsterdam, and Lisbon each increasing the grip of the EU Commission on trade and the economy, finance/fiscal controls, monetary union, etc. left.eu/six-reasons-the-lisbon-treaty-was-and-still-is-a-bad-idea/After the referendum, those that were in favour of remaining a member showed their true colours and total disregard of sovereignty and contempt for democracy by doing everything they could to undermine the leaving process, giving succour to the EU, and trying to put every obstacle in the way of May's government. No, fundamentally you are against the EU. You have described it as corrupt and anti-democratic. Nearly four years ago now you repeated a slur against one of the Founding Fathers of the EU, without even bothering to check the legitimacy of the source. That's where the prejudice showed itself, and you have struggled to acknowledge that fact. The trouble is that you were wrong about Jean Monnet, and thought you could mislead people. If you were wrong about that, what else were you wrong about? You are also wrong to characterise the events of the May years as being down to Remainer Resistance. That May could make no progress was due in part to tensions between various factions in Parliament. But that Parliament was elected by the people, and reflected the divisions in the country at that time. And of course, Parliament was and is sovereign. You seem to have a thing about the Jean Monnet quote that proved to be unsupported by factual evidence and which I recognised as such. Nevertheless, That does not change the fact that Monnet clearly set out a plan for the gradual "abnegation of sovereignty" to use his own words. This plan started with economic union on the grounds of creating greater prosperity and avoiding future conflict between states. But then followed by a gradual evolution in small steps to the formation of a super state. www.thefederalist.eu/site/index.php/en/notes/2495-9th-may-1950-jean-monnet-the-revolution-of-european-sovereigntyI don't want the UK merged into a European super state and law making made outside of the UK. Regarding your second paragraph, Johnson gave the people another chance to change their mind in the 2019 GE and the people chose to get Brexit done and restore parliamentary sovereignty. It is vital to retain control of politicians or they will control you. Farage is a loose cannon and God forbid he actually gets any power but I'm sure the people of Clacton will remove him when it suits them, till then he is their elected representative. |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Nov 25, 2024 9:39:44 GMT
Let's get it right. You were prejudiced against the EU, and made a series of derogatory comments about various EU institutions and leaders. You specifically alleged that one of the founders made anti-democratic statements, and you have failed to fully acknowledge your error there. You have voted to push the UK out of a Union of democratic states which have collaborated to bring peace and prosperity to the continent after centuries of nationalistic conflicts which led to the death of millions of innocent people. You should take no pleasure in spreading anti-EU propaganda. I am against UK membership of the EU. I have no objection to the UK being a member of a trade organization, provided the sovereignty of the HoC is retained, but not a political union with a minority say. I am prejudiced against a corrupt organisation. www.transparency.org/en/gcb/eu/european-union-2021www.ibanet.org/article/8ab9996b-5454-4a7d-a38a-6e376aa310f3I am prejudiced against an undemocratic organisation. When Jeremy Corbyn voted against the Maastricht treaty in 1993, he declared it was because the EU had handed control to " an unelected set of bankers". In 2016 he stated that the EU has “always suffered from a serious democratic deficit”. www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/opinion/columnists/the-eu-has-largely-been-a-driver-for-peace-but-it-is-profoundly-anti-democratic-bill-carmichael-4807060citylawtutors.co.uk/law-journal/democracy-within-the-european-union"The European Parliament ........ is an insult against democracy that exists only to rubber-stamp neoliberal rule." jacobin.com/2019/05/European-union-parliament-elections-antidemocraticThe original concept of economic collaboration to bring interdependence and avoid future war was noble, but it was not necessary to move to an elected parliament which is just a façade for democracy, or a court, or ever increasing centralising of power and control through a succession of treaties at Luxembourg, Maastricht, Amsterdam, and Lisbon each increasing the grip of the EU Commission on trade and the economy, finance/fiscal controls, monetary union, etc. left.eu/six-reasons-the-lisbon-treaty-was-and-still-is-a-bad-idea/After the referendum, those that were in favour of remaining a member showed their true colours and total disregard of sovereignty and contempt for democracy by doing everything they could to undermine the leaving process, giving succour to the EU, and trying to put every obstacle in the way of May's government. You really are on dodgy ground complaining about the EU being undemocratic given we are the least democratic country in pretty much the whole of Europe: We have an unelected head of state We have an unelected second chamber We have a voting system that effectively disenfranchises two thirds of the population that consistently returns a Parliament that in no way reflects the will of the people We have the most centralised state in Europe with very little regional power We don't have a written constitution or a Bill of rights The EU certainly needs democratic reform but in comparison as a democracy we are a joke. |
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 25, 2024 10:35:59 GMT
I am against UK membership of the EU. I have no objection to the UK being a member of a trade organization, provided the sovereignty of the HoC is retained, but not a political union with a minority say. I am prejudiced against a corrupt organisation. www.transparency.org/en/gcb/eu/european-union-2021www.ibanet.org/article/8ab9996b-5454-4a7d-a38a-6e376aa310f3I am prejudiced against an undemocratic organisation. When Jeremy Corbyn voted against the Maastricht treaty in 1993, he declared it was because the EU had handed control to " an unelected set of bankers". In 2016 he stated that the EU has “always suffered from a serious democratic deficit”. www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/opinion/columnists/the-eu-has-largely-been-a-driver-for-peace-but-it-is-profoundly-anti-democratic-bill-carmichael-4807060citylawtutors.co.uk/law-journal/democracy-within-the-european-union"The European Parliament ........ is an insult against democracy that exists only to rubber-stamp neoliberal rule." jacobin.com/2019/05/European-union-parliament-elections-antidemocraticThe original concept of economic collaboration to bring interdependence and avoid future war was noble, but it was not necessary to move to an elected parliament which is just a façade for democracy, or a court, or ever increasing centralising of power and control through a succession of treaties at Luxembourg, Maastricht, Amsterdam, and Lisbon each increasing the grip of the EU Commission on trade and the economy, finance/fiscal controls, monetary union, etc. left.eu/six-reasons-the-lisbon-treaty-was-and-still-is-a-bad-idea/After the referendum, those that were in favour of remaining a member showed their true colours and total disregard of sovereignty and contempt for democracy by doing everything they could to undermine the leaving process, giving succour to the EU, and trying to put every obstacle in the way of May's government. You really are on dodgy ground complaining about the EU being undemocratic given we are the least democratic country in pretty much the whole of Europe: We have an unelected head of state We have an unelected second chamber We have a voting system that effectively disenfranchises two thirds of the population that consistently returns a Parliament that in no way reflects the will of the people We have the most centralised state in Europe with very little regional power We don't have a written constitution or a Bill of rights The EU certainly needs democratic reform but in comparison as a democracy we are a joke. The UK is one of the most democratic countries in the world. www.statista.com/statistics/679796/democracy-index-most-democratic-countries/The UK is more democratic than most European countries. The people elect the HoC where sovereignty lies. The head of state is appointed and succession rules have been changed by parliament in the past. The HoL has no real power, its members are appointed, and its decisions can be overruled by the HoC. We have a well established judicial system. We are far from a joke and the envy of most of the world. The EU is far from a democracy. All legislation is drafted by the unelected Commission along the treaty lines of ever closer union. The EU parliament is a talking shop and its only power is to stop legislation and can only approve what the Commission draft. The Commission runs rings round individual national commissioners and dances to the tune of big business and commercial interests. Tell which country has a government that reflects the will of the people. Maybe Romania? |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 25, 2024 10:57:24 GMT
I am against UK membership of the EU. I have no objection to the UK being a member of a trade organization, provided the sovereignty of the HoC is retained, but not a political union with a minority say. I am prejudiced against a corrupt organisation. www.transparency.org/en/gcb/eu/european-union-2021www.ibanet.org/article/8ab9996b-5454-4a7d-a38a-6e376aa310f3I am prejudiced against an undemocratic organisation. When Jeremy Corbyn voted against the Maastricht treaty in 1993, he declared it was because the EU had handed control to " an unelected set of bankers". In 2016 he stated that the EU has “always suffered from a serious democratic deficit”. www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/opinion/columnists/the-eu-has-largely-been-a-driver-for-peace-but-it-is-profoundly-anti-democratic-bill-carmichael-4807060citylawtutors.co.uk/law-journal/democracy-within-the-european-union"The European Parliament ........ is an insult against democracy that exists only to rubber-stamp neoliberal rule." jacobin.com/2019/05/European-union-parliament-elections-antidemocraticThe original concept of economic collaboration to bring interdependence and avoid future war was noble, but it was not necessary to move to an elected parliament which is just a façade for democracy, or a court, or ever increasing centralising of power and control through a succession of treaties at Luxembourg, Maastricht, Amsterdam, and Lisbon each increasing the grip of the EU Commission on trade and the economy, finance/fiscal controls, monetary union, etc. left.eu/six-reasons-the-lisbon-treaty-was-and-still-is-a-bad-idea/After the referendum, those that were in favour of remaining a member showed their true colours and total disregard of sovereignty and contempt for democracy by doing everything they could to undermine the leaving process, giving succour to the EU, and trying to put every obstacle in the way of May's government. You really are on dodgy ground complaining about the EU being undemocratic given we are the least democratic country in pretty much the whole of Europe: We have an unelected head of state We have an unelected second chamber We have a voting system that effectively disenfranchises two thirds of the population that consistently returns a Parliament that in no way reflects the will of the people We have the most centralised state in Europe with very little regional power We don't have a written constitution or a Bill of rights The EU certainly needs democratic reform but in comparison as a democracy we are a joke. CB Everything you say about the UK system is true . We need serious reform. What we don't want is another system, , another more remote undemocratic "Parliament"( not our understanding of Parliament) , not necessarily acting in our interest, to which British won't and can't relate, on top of what we already have. Particularly for those disenfranchised and for the " Left" , many of who are content and satisfied to moan from the sides, pointing out what is wrong with everything and everybody.... Reform of the system is the only way to achieve any real change. Marx was right,but the Internet revolution and globalism has exacberated things, Benn was right that democracy has to be fought by each generation. The EU isn't a trading block and many people don't want Political and Economic union. |
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