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Post by spitthedog on Apr 17, 2019 15:32:12 GMT
2 questions really
1. Why has it resurfaced so prolifically in recent times?
It's become like a epidemic, from a situation where it was thought it had disappeared from the game. Its virtually every day. It's all the way down the chain too, Padiham in the Evo-Stik walked off after one of their players got racially abused (and have been fined by their league for doing so!). It's happening in grounds, outside of grounds in public spaces and on social media. Did it ever go away?
2. Why the hell do people engage in it in the first place?
I naively thought people like this didn't exist any more, never mind to engage in it so publicly. Its staggering really and quite frightening. What makes people think they have the right to engage in such activity? What the hell is going on in their heads?
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Post by danceswithclams on Apr 17, 2019 15:36:47 GMT
2 questions really 1. Why has it resurfaced so prolifically in recent times? It's become like a epidemic, from a situation where it was thought it had disappeared from the game. Its virtually every day. It's all the way down the chain too, Padiham in the Evo-Stik walked off after one of their players got racially abused (and have been fined by their league for doing so!). It's happening in grounds, outside of grounds in public spaces and on social media. Did it ever go away? 2. Why the hell do people engage in it in the first place? I naively thought people like this didn't exist any more, never mind to engage in it so publicly. Its staggering really and quite frightening. What makes people think they have the right to engage in such activity? What the hell is going on in their heads? 1. Political climate (Brexit/Trump etc) has made those who hold these reprehensible views braver in expressing them. 2. Ignorance, fear, bigotry.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Apr 17, 2019 15:39:17 GMT
It never disappeared, sorry to shatter the delusion. It just simply was brushed under the carpet. Racism has been prevalent in my memory for as long as I’ve supported Stoke. Social media brings it into focus a lot more however. We’re no longer reliant on 3/4 sources for our media consumption.
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Post by kelw on Apr 17, 2019 15:44:04 GMT
2 questions really 1. Why has it resurfaced so prolifically in recent times? It's become like a epidemic, from a situation where it was thought it had disappeared from the game. Its virtually every day. It's all the way down the chain too, Padiham in the Evo-Stik walked off after one of their players got racially abused (and have been fined by their league for doing so!). It's happening in grounds, outside of grounds in public spaces and on social media. Did it ever go away? 2. Why the hell do people engage in it in the first place? I naively thought people like this didn't exist any more, never mind to engage in it so publicly. Its staggering really and quite frightening. What makes people think they have the right to engage in such activity? What the hell is going on in their heads? Has it resurfaced or is as it always was and the media now reporting every incident constantly no matter how small or in fact even taken out of context? Look back to the Mark Stein incident- imagine i that had been this season. Was a bit of a non story back then. Social media wasn't around back then so easy to name call on Twitter etc with the actual proof there for all to see nowadays Also in today's society we seem to have some looking for stories- did anyone see the idiot woman complaining that an eye liner she bought had the word Negro on it not realising was the Spanish word for black? This kind of stupidity doesn't help. i think the reason it's almost every day as we're seeing the same stories re-hashed ( one incident had 5 articles the same day on the BBC) yet the Rio Ferdinand comment was ignored. it never went away but certainly don't think is worse than previously.
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Post by spitthedog on Apr 17, 2019 15:55:49 GMT
2 questions really 1. Why has it resurfaced so prolifically in recent times? It's become like a epidemic, from a situation where it was thought it had disappeared from the game. Its virtually every day. It's all the way down the chain too, Padiham in the Evo-Stik walked off after one of their players got racially abused (and have been fined by their league for doing so!). It's happening in grounds, outside of grounds in public spaces and on social media. Did it ever go away? 2. Why the hell do people engage in it in the first place? I naively thought people like this didn't exist any more, never mind to engage in it so publicly. Its staggering really and quite frightening. What makes people think they have the right to engage in such activity? What the hell is going on in their heads? Has it resurfaced or is as it always was and the media now reporting every incident constantly no matter how small or in fact even taken out of context? Look back to the Mark Stein incident- imagine i that had been this season. Was a bit of a non story back then. Social media wasn't around back then so easy to name call on Twitter etc with the actual proof there for all to see nowadays Also in today's society we seem to have some looking for stories- did anyone see the idiot woman complaining that an eye liner she bought had the word Negro on it not realising was the Spanish word for black? This kind of stupidity doesn't help. i think the reason it's almost every day as we're seeing the same stories re-hashed ( one incident had 5 articles the same day on the BBC) yet the Rio Ferdinand comment was ignored. it never went away but certainly don't think is worse than previously. You seem to be suggesting its not a problem though and is only news because it is exaggerated? I suppose the best people to ask whether it is acceptable or not, are those who are on the receiving end of it. If it's not any worse, does that make it ok?
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Post by skip on Apr 17, 2019 16:10:23 GMT
2 questions really 1. Why has it resurfaced so prolifically in recent times? It's become like a epidemic, from a situation where it was thought it had disappeared from the game. Its virtually every day. It's all the way down the chain too, Padiham in the Evo-Stik walked off after one of their players got racially abused (and have been fined by their league for doing so!). It's happening in grounds, outside of grounds in public spaces and on social media. Did it ever go away? 2. Why the hell do people engage in it in the first place? I naively thought people like this didn't exist any more, never mind to engage in it so publicly. Its staggering really and quite frightening. What makes people think they have the right to engage in such activity? What the hell is going on in their heads? 1. Political climate (Brexit/Trump etc) has made those who hold these reprehensible views braver in expressing them. 2. Ignorance, fear, bigotry. <solves thread>
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Post by kelw on Apr 17, 2019 16:12:19 GMT
Has it resurfaced or is as it always was and the media now reporting every incident constantly no matter how small or in fact even taken out of context? Look back to the Mark Stein incident- imagine i that had been this season. Was a bit of a non story back then. Social media wasn't around back then so easy to name call on Twitter etc with the actual proof there for all to see nowadays Also in today's society we seem to have some looking for stories- did anyone see the idiot woman complaining that an eye liner she bought had the word Negro on it not realising was the Spanish word for black? This kind of stupidity doesn't help. i think the reason it's almost every day as we're seeing the same stories re-hashed ( one incident had 5 articles the same day on the BBC) yet the Rio Ferdinand comment was ignored. it never went away but certainly don't think is worse than previously. You seem to be suggesting its not a problem though and is only news because it is exaggerated? I suppose the best people to ask whether it is acceptable or not, are those who are on the receiving end of it. If it's not any worse, does that make it ok? I never said it wasn't a problem neither did I say the fact it's no worse makes it ok. I was replying to the original comment where it was implied it was getting worse. I wish some people would actually read the content before getting excited
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Post by spitthedog on Apr 17, 2019 16:29:29 GMT
You seem to be suggesting its not a problem though and is only news because it is exaggerated? I suppose the best people to ask whether it is acceptable or not, are those who are on the receiving end of it. If it's not any worse, does that make it ok? I never said it wasn't a problem neither did I say the fact it's no worse makes it ok. I was replying to the original comment where it was implied it was getting worse. I wish some people would actually read the content before getting excited I don't feel excited, but thanks for clarifying your response, that is helpful.
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Post by kelw on Apr 17, 2019 16:32:52 GMT
I never said it wasn't a problem neither did I say the fact it's no worse makes it ok. I was replying to the original comment where it was implied it was getting worse. I wish some people would actually read the content before getting excited I don't feel excited, but thanks for clarifying your response, that is helpful. I suffered racial abuse especially in my teens so no need to ask those who have been on the end of it but in no way think it is worse in today's society or acceptable. I'm also not naive enough to realise it works both ways but that still seems to be ignored
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2019 16:33:48 GMT
Because the world is full of ignorant people.
Sadly social media means more people become aware and then “jump on the bandwagon”, which is a disgrace really.
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Post by spitthedog on Apr 17, 2019 16:40:58 GMT
Because the world is full of ignorant people. Sadly social media means more people become aware and then “jump on the bandwagon”, which is a disgrace really. I find the social media aspect interesting , because it obviously makes it easier to abuse, the impact is greater, but its still an offence, as well as having a very negative impact. It's not exactly private and the chances are it's going to come back to bite. Everything we write into social media, online etc is there forever. We have no control over it once we press enter, but people seem to use it as if it is very temporary.
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Post by werrington on Apr 17, 2019 16:48:28 GMT
Sky are only going to town on it since Sterling and Rose got affected by it ....Sadly they didn’t give a fuck about until then
It’s like dog attacks, or the recent pitch invaders the media don’t stop reporting on them because they stop, it’s because another story comes along and sadly this will be the same
Still it's a start but I think all the media outlets are desperate for a team to walk off the pitch
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Post by bloody56 on Apr 17, 2019 16:53:59 GMT
It's good that it is being highlighted and dealt with in football now. Football is starting to set a good example. I just wish others would follow that example such as television and political parties.
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Post by thegooddoctor on Apr 17, 2019 16:57:55 GMT
I admit I'm struggling with this. My first Stoke games were in the mid-80s, and all sorts of stuff that will rightly get you arrested these days - monkey chants, people referring to non-white players as "black bastards" etc. - were absolutely taken for granted. The whole idea of going to a copper and complaining about someone's racism was absurd, not least because the rozzers were almost certainly thinking much worse.
This was in front of crowds of 7000-ish, not 50,000 at Chelsea (or wherever). And it was happening at every ground in the country.
No player should have to suffer racist abuse, and the perpetrators should be dealt with by the police. Not complicated, especially when there's CCTV everywhere and everyone has their own personal CCTV in their pockets. But these are isolated incidents: ugly, unnecessary incidents that should be clamped down on. But for an old scrote like me, seeing just one cretin in a crowd of 50,000 people being a racist bell-end is, weirdly enough, a sign of progress.
And progress is usually slow. Y'know, Derek Statham slow.
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Post by OldStokie on Apr 17, 2019 17:15:26 GMT
People love to hate anyone who is different to them. They're shallow human beings with inferiority complexes. If you ever want to confront them, then ask them one simple question: "When was the last time someone of (insert colour, gender, etc here) actually did you any personal harm because of their (insert colour, gender, etc here)?"
As far as racism is rearing its ugly head in football again, then see danceswithclams post above.
OS.
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Post by spitthedog on Apr 17, 2019 19:01:57 GMT
Sky are only going to town on it since Sterling and Rose got affected by it ....Sadly they didn’t give a fuck about until then It’s like dog attacks, or the recent pitch invaders the media don’t stop reporting on them because they stop, it’s because another story comes along and sadly this will be the same Still it's a start but I think all the media outlets are desperate for a team to walk off the pitch Padiham did it at non-league level v Congleton. Padiham got fined £165 for walking off the pitch in protest and Congleton got fined £160 for failing to control the abuse (it was a group of supporters, not an individual).
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Post by songthrush01 on Apr 17, 2019 19:06:52 GMT
one word!PC
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Post by Godo on Apr 17, 2019 20:27:37 GMT
It never went away. Brexit turned over the stones and guess what was hiding there......
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Post by woodstein on Apr 17, 2019 21:28:55 GMT
2 questions really 1. Why has it resurfaced so prolifically in recent times? It's become like a epidemic, from a situation where it was thought it had disappeared from the game. Its virtually every day. It's all the way down the chain too, Padiham in the Evo-Stik walked off after one of their players got racially abused (and have been fined by their league for doing so!). It's happening in grounds, outside of grounds in public spaces and on social media. Did it ever go away? 2. Why the hell do people engage in it in the first place? I naively thought people like this didn't exist any more, never mind to engage in it so publicly. Its staggering really and quite frightening. What makes people think they have the right to engage in such activity? What the hell is going on in their heads? 1. Political climate (Brexit/Trump etc) has made those who hold these reprehensible views braver in expressing them. 2. Ignorance, fear, bigotry. Your answers: 1/ bollocks 2/ true
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Post by woodstein on Apr 17, 2019 21:36:36 GMT
Has it resurfaced or is as it always was and the media now reporting every incident constantly no matter how small or in fact even taken out of context? Look back to the Mark Stein incident- imagine i that had been this season. Was a bit of a non story back then. Social media wasn't around back then so easy to name call on Twitter etc with the actual proof there for all to see nowadays Also in today's society we seem to have some looking for stories- did anyone see the idiot woman complaining that an eye liner she bought had the word Negro on it not realising was the Spanish word for black? This kind of stupidity doesn't help. i think the reason it's almost every day as we're seeing the same stories re-hashed ( one incident had 5 articles the same day on the BBC) yet the Rio Ferdinand comment was ignored. it never went away but certainly don't think is worse than previously. You seem to be suggesting its not a problem though and is only news because it is exaggerated? I suppose the best people to ask whether it is acceptable or not, are those who are on the receiving end of it. If it's not any worse, does that make it ok? Its folk who speak/lecture on the victims behalf that don't always help matters. Some who like to shout the shite keep doing it when they know its winding folk up. Not that it should be done in the first place though.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 17, 2019 21:42:35 GMT
You seem to be suggesting its not a problem though and is only news because it is exaggerated? I suppose the best people to ask whether it is acceptable or not, are those who are on the receiving end of it. If it's not any worse, does that make it ok? Its folk who speak/lecture on the victims behalf that don't always help matters. Some who like to shout the shite keep doing it when they know its winding folk up. Not that it should be done in the first place though. Just so we're clear, in that situation the blame resides, still, 100% with the spunktrumpet who 'likes to shout the shite', irrespective of their motivation for doing so. A fuckwit is a fuckwit.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Apr 17, 2019 21:57:33 GMT
Football is tribal - which is only a problem when the tribe is narrowed down by the narrow minded. There are those out there who think you can only be a true supporter of <insert name here> if you are the same race/religion/gender/sexual orientation/post code as they are. Difference scares them. Fortunately its perfectly possible to be proud of your own tribe knowing full well that ultimately we all belong to the same tribe.
The current political climate has encouraged people to be narrow minded - define yourself in terms of your difference to others. It's based on fear - fear of the unfamiliar, fear of the fact you're not superior to those you've been told aren't as good as you,
Because football celebrates tribalism it's a great place for those wanting to spread the politics of fear, hate and superiority. And it's a great place for the fearful to over compensate for their feelings of insecurity.
Fortunately you can support your team without being a complete wanker. It's perfectly possibly to be proud to be a Potter and respect an Arsenal fan. Just about.
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Post by innocentbystander on Apr 17, 2019 22:01:32 GMT
Professional football must be the most multi racial industry going, with a large proportion of well paid employees being from ethnically diverse and foreign backgrounds. Many have risen to great wealth from poor families. This rainbow alliance of cultures and languages works together closely everyday, the object being to form a friction-less team. This must form many friendships between players of different racial and national origins. The joy shared by a multiracial team when a goal is scored is something you'd rarely see anywhere else in life. Football is the least racist industry anywhere as it recruits purely on ability, which is tested every week. The whole thing has become exaggerated because journos can get the word 'FOOTBALL' into the headline.
A small minority of idiot fans might abuse a visiting player whilst supporting players of the same race in their own team. They do so more because he's a visitor rather than his race. Let's see if Danny Rose is really willing to give up his pay packet because of the 'intolerable' abuse he gets.
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Apr 17, 2019 22:30:49 GMT
It's surprised me really. I have no reason to disbelieve the players at all, so I certainly accept that it happens. I've been to hundreds of games over about 25 years, home and away, and can probably count on one hand the number of racist abuse levelled at players that I've personally witnessed, and probably none within the last five years or so. For the players to hear it and for me to not hear it, it must be taking place on the first few rows.
This begs the question: are these people purposefully choosing these particular seats in order to abuse players?
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