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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2019 9:05:01 GMT
We are improving slowly but we are still improving. Sadly too slowly for our dimwit supporters. Only a short time ago our defence was leaking like a sieve but now we are remaining in games and draws are better than losses. We obviously declined to get relegated but we are certainly no longer declining! Nathan Jones will be a great manager for this club given time and transfer windows to bring better players into the club. At the present moment he is having to manage players tied into lucrative contracts who are neither good enough or fit enough! Under Rowett we conceded at a rate of 1.15 goals per League game. Under Jones that has declined to 1.38. Rowett's run rate of points per game was piss poor but would not have got us relegated. Jones current run rate shows a decline to less than one point per game and is relegation form. It is - as you say - early days and its not his squad. However the same could have been said for Lambert last season - who in league position terms took over a worse situation - however precious little patience was afforded to him. Jones has the advantage of being third, he can play the "give me more time card" and use the two previous managers as an example. Lambert should've been given some backing in January - not signing a striker cost us our place in the premier league. Rowett should've been given more time, expectations were ridiculously high and he was doing an okay but largely uninspiring job, given 18 months I think he could have put a decent team together. NJ will surely get more time despite the horrendous start, sacking him in the summer would put us back to square one and the rebuild starts all over again. Back him and give him a few years minimum and fingers crossed he delivers a side akin to his team at Luton.
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Post by greyman on Feb 26, 2019 9:10:45 GMT
Under Rowett we conceded at a rate of 1.15 goals per League game. Under Jones that has declined to 1.38. Rowett's run rate of points per game was piss poor but would not have got us relegated. Jones current run rate shows a decline to less than one point per game and is relegation form. It is - as you say - early days and its not his squad. However the same could have been said for Lambert last season - who in league position terms took over a worse situation - however precious little patience was afforded to him. Jones has the advantage of being third, he can play the "give me more time card" and use the two previous managers as an example. Lambert should've been given some backing in January - not signing a striker cost us our place in the premier league. Rowett should've been given more time, expectations were ridiculously high and he was doing an okay but largely uninspiring job, given 18 months I think he could have put a decent team together. NJ will surely get more time despite the horrendous start, sacking him in the summer would put us back to square one and the rebuild starts all over again. Back him and give him a few years minimum and fingers crossed he delivers a side akin to his team at Luton. The problem with Rowett wasn't just his performance, despite the tedium. I would have given him as much time as I'm prepared to give Jones given the shambles both inherited. His fatal mistake was making stupid comments about the supporters.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Feb 26, 2019 15:05:02 GMT
Easy Here's ten: Beckham, Lampard,Kane,Darren Sturridge, Andy Cole, Welbeck,John Terry,Victor Moses, Ashley Cole and Danny Rose. All loaned out and come back to their parent clubs and gone with successful careers. You missed out Harry Kane. On loan at Orient, Millwall, Norwich and Leicester. Breakthrough season at Spurs age 21. I assume the 3rd player on the above list is Harry Kane - unless he has a brother of whom I was unaware! Defoe is another one - who gained experience on a season long loan at Bornemouth (for whom he scored against us) before returning to West Ham's first team the following season.
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Post by PotterLog on Feb 26, 2019 15:21:43 GMT
You missed out Harry Kane. On loan at Orient, Millwall, Norwich and Leicester. Breakthrough season at Spurs age 21. I assume the 3rd player on the above list is Harry Kane - unless he has a brother of whom I was unaware! Defoe is another one - who gained experience on a season long loan at Bornemouth (for whom he scored against us) before returning to West Ham's first team the following season. Seems Daniel Sturridge also has a lesser-known brother according to that list
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Post by lordb on Feb 26, 2019 15:50:41 GMT
I assume the 3rd player on the above list is Harry Kane - unless he has a brother of whom I was unaware! Defoe is another one - who gained experience on a season long loan at Bornemouth (for whom he scored against us) before returning to West Ham's first team the following season. Seems Daniel Sturridge also has a lesser-known brother according to that list Darren Sturridge, cracking player...😀
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Post by greyman on Feb 26, 2019 15:51:13 GMT
You missed out Harry Kane. On loan at Orient, Millwall, Norwich and Leicester. Breakthrough season at Spurs age 21. I assume the 3rd player on the above list is Harry Kane - unless he has a brother of whom I was unaware! Defoe is another one - who gained experience on a season long loan at Bornemouth (for whom he scored against us) before returning to West Ham's first team the following season. Bugger edited it
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Post by FullerMagic on Mar 6, 2019 8:42:34 GMT
Looks like he's chosen to play for Australia.
He's got an Aussie grandmother apparently.
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Post by FullerMagic on Mar 6, 2019 8:58:55 GMT
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Mar 6, 2019 9:26:08 GMT
Looks like he's chosen to play for Australia. He's got an Aussie grandmother apparently. Do the same rules apply to Olympic games as apply for regular senior international games? i.e if he plays in an Olympic qualifying game for Australia, will that rule him out of ever being called up by Scotland?
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Post by pottersrule on Mar 6, 2019 9:41:32 GMT
Interesting reading a comment on Twitter from Fleetwood fan "He will play in the Premier league one day i'm sure,so much composure and time on the ball.When he gets stronger he will be a monster. An improvement on some on here that said he will never make the grade,despite never seeing him play regular competitive league football.
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Post by FullerMagic on Mar 6, 2019 9:43:37 GMT
Looks like he's chosen to play for Australia. He's got an Aussie grandmother apparently. Do the same rules apply to Olympic games as apply for regular senior international games? i.e if he plays in an Olympic qualifying game for Australia, will that rule him out of ever being called up by Scotland? Think he could still switch back to Scotland, before the age of 23, until he wins a full senior cap for Australia.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Mar 6, 2019 9:45:31 GMT
Do the same rules apply to Olympic games as apply for regular senior international games? i.e if he plays in an Olympic qualifying game for Australia, will that rule him out of ever being called up by Scotland? Think he could still switch back to Scotland, before the age of 23, until he wins a full senior cap for Australia. Cheers - I suspected that might be the case given that Olympic games are, essentially, U23 games with just a few over age players.
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Post by greystokie on Mar 6, 2019 15:54:11 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2019 17:04:40 GMT
Do the same rules apply to Olympic games as apply for regular senior international games? i.e if he plays in an Olympic qualifying game for Australia, will that rule him out of ever being called up by Scotland? Think he could still switch back to Scotland, before the age of 23, until he wins a full senior cap for Australia. I don't think FIFA consider the Olympic Games to be full internationals. He can probably play international friendly games for Oz as well, but once he plays the world cup final, or qualifying games, or the same for the Asia Cup, Scotland will have to give up on him. Stoke might too, because he then becomes a foreigner, and time will tell how many we will be allowed to have of those once we really leave the EU.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2019 17:12:13 GMT
Lambert should've been given some backing in January - not signing a striker cost us our place in the premier league. Lambert dug his own grave. He didn't press for another striker, he was sure that HE was the man who could turn Berahino around, although that kind of faith didn't stand him long. I happen to like Lambert a lot, but he dug his grave further when he pressed the board to extend his contract and allow him a set transfer sum (don't know the sum), and set a deadline for the board to give him that. Jon Coates wouldn't stand for that kind of pressure and sacked Lambert, because of that, not because we were relegated.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Mar 6, 2019 17:13:16 GMT
Think he could still switch back to Scotland, before the age of 23, until he wins a full senior cap for Australia. I don't think FIFA consider the Olympic Games to be full internationals. He can probably play international friendly games for Oz as well, but once he plays the world cup final, or qualifying games, or the same for the Asia Cup, Scotland will have to give up on him. Stoke might too, because he then becomes a foreigner, and time will tell how many we will be allowed to have of those once we really leave the EU.
Who he plays international football for doesn't affect his status as a "foreign" or non foreign player under the rules. Huth and Bego played for foreign countries but were domestic players under the rules because they had played 3 years of under 21 football for English clubs. If Souttar gets 3 years in for Stoke (and/or any other English or Welsh club) aged under 21 then he will always be a domestic player - if he doesn't he won't.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2019 17:15:18 GMT
I don't think FIFA consider the Olympic Games to be full internationals. He can probably play international friendly games for Oz as well, but once he plays the world cup final, or qualifying games, or the same for the Asia Cup, Scotland will have to give up on him. Stoke might too, because he then becomes a foreigner, and time will tell how many we will be allowed to have of those once we really leave the EU.
Who he plays international football for doesn't affect his status as a "foreign" or non foreign player under the rules. Huth and Bego played for foreign countries but were domestic players under the rules because they had played 3 years of under 21 football for English clubs. If Souttar gets 3 years in for Stoke under 21 then he will be a domestic player - if he doesn't he won't. True - but that was before Brexit!
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Post by FullerMagic on Mar 6, 2019 17:17:37 GMT
Who he plays international football for doesn't affect his status as a "foreign" or non foreign player under the rules. Huth and Bego played for foreign countries but were domestic players under the rules because they had played 3 years of under 21 football for English clubs. If Souttar gets 3 years in for Stoke under 21 then he will be a domestic player - if he doesn't he won't. True - but that was before Brexit! He'll always be a British citizen with a UK passport though, regardless of who he plays football for.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Mar 6, 2019 17:21:31 GMT
True - but that was before Brexit! He'll always be a British citizen with a UK passport though, regardless of who he plays football for. Even if Scotland wasn't a British country, Brexit would not make a difference to the domestic player in a squad rule. The rule is that to be a domestic player a player (regardless of his passport or nationality needs to spend 3 years minimum at English or Welsh club(s) before age 21.
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Post by FullerMagic on Mar 6, 2019 17:23:10 GMT
He'll always be a British citizen with a UK passport though, regardless of who he plays football for. Even if Scotland wasn't a British country, Brexit would not make a difference to the domestic player in a squad rule. The rule is that to be a domestic player a player (regardless of his passport or nationality needs to spend 3 years minimum at English or Welsh club(s) before age 21. Yeah, on that front he'll get the 3 years in later this year. Don't think that will be an issue.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2019 19:22:26 GMT
True - but that was before Brexit! He'll always be a British citizen with a UK passport though, regardless of who he plays football for. True - but his football "passport" will be Australian. But I'll hold on my hands: I haven't got a clue what the exact rules are post-Brexit.
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Post by felonious on Mar 6, 2019 19:30:41 GMT
He’s playing great for Fleetwood Town, now read that again. That’s his level. Remind me, where did Gordon Banks start his career?
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Post by jarhead on Mar 6, 2019 19:55:22 GMT
Woooooooooooooosssshhhhhhh
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Post by kelw on Mar 6, 2019 22:42:08 GMT
He's on loan. Great that he's playing well and getting game time. Can't really see the problem some have. Must be doing wonders for his confidence also. Harvey Barnes has gone back to Leicester a new player for example after a loan spell at West Brom .
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2019 23:06:06 GMT
Brilliant for our very own slabhead. A good end to the season and good pre season then we could have a very good 3 in him Indi and Baath
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Mar 7, 2019 7:53:15 GMT
He's on loan. Great that he's playing well and getting game time. Can't really see the problem some have. Must be doing wonders for his confidence also. Harvey Barnes has gone back to Leicester a new player for example after a loan spell at West Brom . Yes, I don't understand why so many of our fans fail to see the positives of a Stoke player doing well on loan at a Div 1 side. I remember years ago being hugely impressed by Defoe on loan at Bournemouth when he played for them at Stoke. It didn't do him any harm and players from Beckam to Kane have cut their teeth on loan at lower league clubs. Why should it be good for them but not for a Stoke player? Can anyone remember how chuffed we were when Shawcross made such a good early impression when he arrived on loan at Stoke? Turned out well for him and us. Let's hope Souttar does the same. I'm also chuffed that Clint Hill, who I have a lot of time for, is taking an interest in his development.
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Post by franklin66 on Mar 7, 2019 8:02:10 GMT
If he was any good would he be on loan? Mark Stein was on loan.
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Post by kelw on Mar 7, 2019 8:27:28 GMT
If he was any good would he be on loan? Mark Stein was on loan. That Harry Kane and David Beckham must be shite then and dozens more
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Post by stokefan1972 on Mar 7, 2019 17:11:26 GMT
That Harry Kane and David Beckham must be shite then and dozens more I'm on about stoke players
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Post by kelw on Mar 7, 2019 17:59:36 GMT
That Harry Kane and David Beckham must be shite then and dozens more I'm on about stoke players We loaned out Ben Foster- played for Man U and England. Couldn't get in the team at the time but didn't make him no good. Begovic was at Macc/Yeovil before being excellent for us, we loaned Butland out 4 times. Need we go on? That's just goalkeepers
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