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Post by mrcoke on Jan 12, 2019 19:17:08 GMT
As I watched the last quarter of the match and it became apparent we had lost I thought how poor Rowett's signings have been.
Afobe lifted me with his goal, but as the match went on he did less and less work. Berahino was trying harder before he was subbed, but he has lost any spark that he had.
Clucas has me baffled, what talent does he have at this level?
Allen had one of his off days, but season to date he has been one of our best players.
Etebo needs to start matches. He never seems to get up to speed when he comes on from the bench. I thought he was our best player against Shrewsbury, after he settled down; he was too physical to start with and in danger of getting sent off again.
If we get a decent offer for Jack, maybe we should cash in now and use the money to build a new squad. Starting with CBs.
Edwards is still very green but I would keep playing him and keep coaching and developing him. This is important not just for the team, but very important to the academy. The young players need to be given hope there is a chance for them to break into the team. Edwards has a lot of natural talent he needs the experience and "head" to go with it.
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Post by blackpoolred on Jan 12, 2019 19:36:29 GMT
Edwards has one hell of a lot to learn Yep, not the right time to blood him I'm afraid. Has to be Bauer I would say the opposite actually: We will never know if he is capable of playing at this level if we don't give him a consistent run. 15pts is realistically our only target now, so why not take a good look at him till the end of the season and give him his shot, our manager likes youth also - so this may be his time. He at least looks keen and hungry which is the polar opposite to the rest of his defensive teammates. That said, he does look like he is chasing shadows at times and I have my doubts about him In for a penny, in for a pound, I say
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Post by cousindupree on Jan 12, 2019 19:57:24 GMT
Having watched a lot of champs footie this season I come to the conclusion that teams playing like Leeds or indeed Brentford are the template for promo. I think this is the type of footie Jones wants to play. Sadly we have very few players who are quick and can move the ball quickly. Maybe Bauer Bojan Etebo perhaps Woods and an outside choice Berahino. The rest don't have that mentality and indeed many have suffered from one whole year of playing for percentage damage limitation managers in Lambo and Rowett. It's no surprise they have limited attacking skills. We are light years away from Leeds Brentford West Brom. We are now committed to Jones and his style and will take a huge turnover in players and it's a very tall order to get promo even next season. In summary I think we ate looking at a lengthy stay at this level.
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Post by FullerMagic on Jan 12, 2019 21:08:51 GMT
www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/stoke-city-contracts-january-transfer-2350370Some of the contract lengths are very depressing -Haugaard 2019 Federici 2020 Butland 2021 -Sweeney 2019 Pieters 2020 Shawcross 2021 Bauer 2022 Edwards 2022 BMI 2022 Souttar 2022 Tymon 2022 Wimmer 2022 -Adam 2019 Fletcher 2019 Afellay 2019 Cameron 2020 Imbula 2021 McClean 2022 Ndiaye 2022 Allen 2022 Clucas 2022 Etebo 2023 Sorensen 2023 Woods Unconfirmed (2023?) -Crouch 2019 Bojan 2020 Diouf 2020 Ince 2022 Ngoy 2022 Verlinden 2022 Berahino 2022 Afobe Unconfirmed (2023?) Campbell Unconfirmed
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Post by Trouserdog on Jan 12, 2019 21:12:54 GMT
www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/stoke-city-contracts-january-transfer-2350370Some of the contract lengths are very depressing -Haugaard 2019 Federici 2020 Butland 2021 -Sweeney 2019 Pieters 2020 Shawcross 2021 Bauer 2022 Edwards 2022 BMI 2022 Souttar 2022 Tymon 2022 Wimmer 2022 -Adam 2019 Fletcher 2019 Afellay 2019 Cameron 2020 Imbula 2021 McClean 2022 Ndiaye 2022 Allen 2022 Clucas 2022 Etebo 2023 Sorensen 2023 Woods Unconfirmed (2023?) -Crouch 2019 Bojan 2020 Diouf 2020 Ince 2022 Ngoy 2022 Verlinden 2022 Berahino 2022 Afobe Unconfirmed (2023?) Campbell Unconfirmed At least we'll see the back of all the 2019 ones (be sad to see Crouch go, but his time's up now I think). Maybe Imbers could get a final shot at redemption in a midfield diamond?
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Post by Gary Hackett on Jan 12, 2019 21:17:06 GMT
It's a massive if but IF Imbula could get his attitude sorted he'd be ideal in Jones diamond on the left.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jan 12, 2019 21:19:20 GMT
It's a massive if but IF Imbula could get his attitude sorted he'd be ideal in Jones diamond on the left. You've just answered your own question.
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Post by nott1 on Jan 12, 2019 21:20:14 GMT
Bojan
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Post by stokiejoe on Jan 12, 2019 21:31:42 GMT
Been thinking exactly the same. I think we'd be able to find a buyer for all of Butland, Allen, Crouch, Diouf and McClean then try to get through the season with this: GK: Federici/ Loan GK RB: Bauer/ Edwards CB: Loan CB/ Shawcross CB: Martins-Indi/Williams LB: Loan LB/Pieters DM: Woods/Sorenson CM: Etebo/ Fletcher CM: Clucas/ Adam AM: Ince/ Shenton F: Afobe/Campbell F: Bojan/Berahino We simply can't go on with Shawcross OR Williams in the team, but we're stuck with both for the rest of the year whether we want them or not. Jones has openly said he doesn't like loan players, he may have to accept one or two though unless he can unearth some gems.
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Post by stokiejoe on Jan 12, 2019 21:41:35 GMT
www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/stoke-city-contracts-january-transfer-2350370Some of the contract lengths are very depressing -Haugaard 2019 Federici 2020 Butland 2021 -Sweeney 2019 Pieters 2020 Shawcross 2021 Bauer 2022 Edwards 2022 BMI 2022 Souttar 2022 Tymon 2022 Wimmer 2022 -Adam 2019 Fletcher 2019 Afellay 2019 Cameron 2020 Imbula 2021 McClean 2022 Ndiaye 2022 Allen 2022 Clucas 2022 Etebo 2023 Sorensen 2023 Woods Unconfirmed (2023?) -Crouch 2019 Bojan 2020 Diouf 2020 Ince 2022 Ngoy 2022 Verlinden 2022 Berahino 2022 Afobe Unconfirmed (2023?) Campbell Unconfirmed I suspect the only solution would be to loan out as many as possible, cut our losses on transfer fees to get them off our books. Not easy if they dont want to budge and very expensive to write them off so we may have to do our best to improve what we have or expect a much longer stay in this division.
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Post by stokeykez on Jan 12, 2019 21:50:00 GMT
We have to bring in players who are from championship and lower leagues to counteract the big boys that we are paying endless amounts for. Ridiculous recruitment has got us in this mess.
To be fair though I think NJ need to rebuild a team of players who haven't been in the prem who seek that level and want to so bad instead of ex prem players that have dined off it and clearly lost their desire and passion to fight to get there again.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Jan 12, 2019 21:56:33 GMT
If I'm being honest I think we're fucked and I can't see any way out of this division in the near future.
I think the board realise that with the appointment of Jones.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2019 21:59:02 GMT
We have to bring in players who are from championship and lower leagues to counteract the big boys that we are paying endless amounts for. Ridiculous recruitment has got us in this mess. To be fair though I think NJ need to rebuild a team of players who haven't been in the prem who seek that level and want to so bad instead of ex prem players that have dined off it and clearly lost their desire and passion to fight to get there again. Could do worse than Zeki Fryers at Barnsley for an attacking left back, and Patrick Bauer at Charlton for a mobile centre half if we're looking in League One....
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Post by gilberto on Jan 12, 2019 22:04:25 GMT
When you have a very specific system like the diamond, do you jettison all wingers and wide forwards from the squad and just not have any? Or do you need to keep some around to give yourself options?
Would any player of that position want to be here knowing that the manager’s plan A does not involve them?
I didn’t watch it today (couldn’t get on the stream) but by all accounts Ince isn’t a number 10. He’s been very good this season on the right but does NJ sell him? His position no longer exists in our team. Same for McClean but I imagine no-one would be too bothered to see the back of him.
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Post by stokesupporter on Jan 12, 2019 22:09:34 GMT
Afobe, Indi, Pieters, Allen, Ince, Bauer, Bojan, Cambell and Butland are the playes who have potential adapting to the new style of playing... the rest we have to buy.
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Jan 12, 2019 22:17:05 GMT
The selling off assets argument is a really good one.
I was watching an NFL documentary about the Dallas Cowboys. Nut shell was the owner's sold up, 20+ year legendary head coach was sacked and an up and coming college head coach was placed in role.
After realising the squad was lacking in quality he sourced a huge "trade" deal for their best player a drafted young talent direct from college.
Now in football we clearly have relegation to consider and selling your best players is usually very unadviseable.
However cashing in on Butland and Allen (Who I feel will command the highest transfer fees) could give us the option of reinvesting with Nathan Jones to complete his vision of how he wants to play.
*For anyone interested Dallas went on to win 3 out of 4 superbowls. It did take a couple of years though.
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Post by DentySCFC on Jan 12, 2019 22:22:27 GMT
www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/stoke-city-contracts-january-transfer-2350370Some of the contract lengths are very depressing -Haugaard 2019 Federici 2020 Butland 2021 -Sweeney 2019 Pieters 2020 Shawcross 2021 Bauer 2022 Edwards 2022 BMI 2022 Souttar 2022 Tymon 2022 Wimmer 2022 -Adam 2019 Fletcher 2019 Afellay 2019 Cameron 2020 Imbula 2021 McClean 2022 Ndiaye 2022 Allen 2022 Clucas 2022 Etebo 2023 Sorensen 2023 Woods Unconfirmed (2023?) -Crouch 2019 Bojan 2020 Diouf 2020 Ince 2022 Ngoy 2022 Verlinden 2022 Berahino 2022 Afobe Unconfirmed (2023?) Campbell Unconfirmed Who on earth committed Candy Floss Cameron to a contract until 2020?
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Post by jeycov on Jan 12, 2019 22:22:29 GMT
I would try Bauer and Bojan on Tuesday? Bring Indi back as one of the centre halves! Etobo must play for me too.....also would consider Bojan alongside Afobe as just don’t feel Berahinho will make it.... Afobe was ready for several balls played over their defence but they all seemed to be over hit? Was this a shorter pitch today? ( seriously) He took his goal well, hopefully regaining some confidence
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Post by boothenesque on Jan 12, 2019 22:25:33 GMT
Berahino until 2022 is so depressing
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Post by boskampsflaps on Jan 12, 2019 22:27:19 GMT
Ince, Butland, Afobe, Edwards, Etebo, Campbell, I wouldn't really care if the rest went tbh.
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Post by jezzascfc on Jan 12, 2019 22:50:34 GMT
Right now, to give Jones room to wheel and deal, we should consider any offers for any player. Today's "performance" will have shown Nathan what we have all known for a while - we have an unbalanced, unmotivated, unfit squad of bang average footballers at the club. Some may improve under his tutelage, many are either beyond hope or simply not fit for purpose for his formation and ambitious plans for the club.
I would not cry over any of them being sold. In fact, I would be more excited to see who the new manager would target to replace them.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Jan 12, 2019 23:00:48 GMT
Clucas is going through the stage where he can no longer get through games on adrenaline after a long lay off. He’ll come good I’m sure, Etebo needs an uninterrupted run in the side.... I’ll certainly go with your first sentence. I didn’t expect to see him enough to be able to judge until February because of his lay off and no pre-season Fingers crossed with your second sentence
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Post by Pugsley on Jan 12, 2019 23:05:44 GMT
Got to feel for Jones. To a man, all of Rowett's signings are at best below-average and at worst abysmal.
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Post by Mint Berry Barks on Jan 12, 2019 23:08:51 GMT
There's a very good player at this level in Woods, I'm surprised people are writing him off.
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Post by Pugsley on Jan 12, 2019 23:11:22 GMT
Been thinking exactly the same. I think we'd be able to find a buyer for all of Butland, Allen, Crouch, Diouf and McClean then try to get through the season with this: GK: Federici/ Loan GK RB: Bauer/ Edwards CB: Loan CB/ Shawcross CB: Martins-Indi/Williams LB: Loan LB/Pieters DM: Woods/Sorenson CM: Etebo/ Fletcher CM: Clucas/ Adam AM: Ince/ Shenton F: Afobe/Campbell F: Bojan/Berahino We simply can't go on with Shawcross OR Williams in the team, but we're stuck with both for the rest of the year whether we want them or not. We'll go down with Federici in goal. A calamity keeper. Chucks 'em in for fun.
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Post by gingerninja on Jan 12, 2019 23:14:18 GMT
I tend to agree with Jezza, I wouldn't lose sleep about any players leaving. Let him identify & be given free rein to get players who fit his vision. Like many have stated previously we are a hot potch of useless parts on the whole.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2019 23:23:09 GMT
And of course the players costing a small fortune out on loan. Let's get them off the books too!
One would assume that Jones will be in the role for a while. That I am comfortable with, even if we finish lower than where we are now. But I can see 10-12 outs and 10-12 ins (i.e essentially a starting football team) in this and the next transfer window. The board have to back now, there's no other option.
Wimmer, Imbula, N'Diaye, Mclean, Diouf, Allen, Butland (for the cash) need to be old. Fletcher, Shawcross, Crouch, Pieters and Cameron either sold or eased into mentoring roles - but they are probably all on significant wages so selling wouldn't be a bad thing. There is twelve. And if Bauer and Bojan and both too damaged from what has happened (I personally hope not) then they could eb considered as well.
The wages that would free up alone would be astronomical.
As for the 'ins'... over to you Nathan. You have a free pass in my book. Show us something new.
Edit - And of course - return Williams and Maartina. Geez there's 14 names....
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Post by onionman on Jan 12, 2019 23:31:49 GMT
The last time our squad was as abysmal as this, we only stopped the rot when we sold our two star players, Thorne and Kavanagh, and rebuilt the team with the money.
At the time we sold them, it felt like we were weakening an already weak team.
But those two players had been part of a losing culture and it turned out their departure paved the way for a new culture that brought promotion and put us on track for a sustained period of improvement.
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Post by generationex on Jan 12, 2019 23:44:51 GMT
Imbula. 2021. Jesus I’m going to bed. To cry.
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Post by stokeykez on Jan 13, 2019 0:08:50 GMT
Imbula. 2021. Jesus I’m going to bed. To cry. Seems like these players have been here for years, wouldn't mind if they were being outplayed at stoke and there is no place even in the matchday squad but so many players have given absolutely nothing from day 1.
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