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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 25, 2018 12:39:11 GMT
I don’t think they’ll see it as inevitable Paul. When Hughes was sacked the official statement acknowledged they’d given him too much time, but also stated they’d continue to give managerial appointments time. They hadn’t even made a decision on Lambert until he himself forced the issue. I think they’ll give him the season at least and maybe longer, horrifyingly. If we don't make the play offs, then I don't see how they could possibly continue with him, when they very publicly stated what they would regard failure as being. I hope you’re right mate, because I don’t see anything getting better while he’s here.
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Post by JoeinOz on Nov 25, 2018 12:42:05 GMT
I don’t think they’ll see it as inevitable Paul. When Hughes was sacked the official statement acknowledged they’d given him too much time, but also stated they’d continue to give managerial appointments time. They hadn’t even made a decision on Lambert until he himself forced the issue. I think they’ll give him the season at least and maybe longer, horrifyingly. If we don't make the play offs, then I don't see how they could possibly continue with him, when they very publicly stated what they would regard failure as being. I agree but twice before Coates has held onto a manager in the face of all common sense. He could repeat the misplaced loyalty thing.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 25, 2018 12:42:32 GMT
If we don't make the play offs, then I don't see how they could possibly continue with him, when they very publicly stated what they would regard failure as being. I hope you’re right mate, because I don’t see anything getting better while he’s here. Nope me neither mate.
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Post by JoeinOz on Nov 25, 2018 12:42:49 GMT
If we don't make the play offs, then I don't see how they could possibly continue with him, when they very publicly stated what they would regard failure as being. I hope you’re right mate, because I don’t see anything getting better while he’s here. Nor me.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 25, 2018 12:48:32 GMT
There is no way that Rowett should be allowed to prove he's not good enough.
If the owners still have this club in their heart they need to be brave, admit they have fucked up again and act now.
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 25, 2018 13:06:47 GMT
Do you think that's how the owners see things though Paul? If the obvious candidate is Jokanovic, that also means them giving him at least as big a warchest as they gave Rowett to accommodate his way of playing. I just don't see them doing it. They've invested big time in this guy and as grim as we are and as far away from the mix as they are, knowing what we know about 'the family' I don't think they'd act until things were Sunderland-level dire. Amid talk of budgets and warchests a different manager could get a lot more from the current squad. In terms of both results and style. I think that is exactly right. We have the strongest squad in the Championship and lots of players not used, not used properly, not motivated (till we start losing, or lose the lead), and not playing to their full potential. Just look at what McClaren has done with QPR's paltry squad. We need a manager who can manage seasoned internationals. Tactically we are never going to win many matches. You have to win matches to be promoted. QPR are 2 points ahead of us, despite losing 2 more matches than us, because they score goals and win matches. Rowett supporters on here have kept referring to the fact we are "only 6 points from a play-off place". Well we are not now. Another home match gone, with just 3 shots on target from majority possession, and the opposition GK had a very comfortable day; he only made 1 save according to Sky stats.
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Post by Pugsley on Nov 25, 2018 13:08:30 GMT
The owners will not act unless put under pressure by supporters. Unfortunately there is apathy abound at the B365 and a lot of people can't be arsed. Put that together with the 'fans' who think he's doing a good job and the 'we know our place' brigade, you won't be hearing Rowett Out chants.
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Post by JoeinOz on Nov 25, 2018 13:10:46 GMT
Amid talk of budgets and warchests a different manager could get a lot more from the current squad. In terms of both results and style. I think that is exactly right. We have the strongest squad in the Championship and lots of players not used, not used properly, not motivated (till we start losing, or lose the lead), and not playing to their full potential. Just look at what McClaren has done with QPR's paltry squad. We need a manager who can manage seasoned internationals. Tactically we are never going to win many matches. You have to win matches to be promoted. QPR are 2 points ahead of us, despite losing 2 more matches than us, because they score goals and win matches. Rowett supporters on here have kept referring to the fact we are "only 6 points from a play-off place". Well we are not now. Another home match gone, with just 3 shots on target from majority possession, and the opposition GK had a very comfortable day; he only made 1 save according to Sky stats. Rowett has a certain way of doing things. We are just better suited to away games the way we set up. Caution at all costs.
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 25, 2018 13:25:13 GMT
I think that is exactly right. We have the strongest squad in the Championship and lots of players not used, not used properly, not motivated (till we start losing, or lose the lead), and not playing to their full potential. Just look at what McClaren has done with QPR's paltry squad. We need a manager who can manage seasoned internationals. Tactically we are never going to win many matches. You have to win matches to be promoted. QPR are 2 points ahead of us, despite losing 2 more matches than us, because they score goals and win matches. Rowett supporters on here have kept referring to the fact we are "only 6 points from a play-off place". Well we are not now. Another home match gone, with just 3 shots on target from majority possession, and the opposition GK had a very comfortable day; he only made 1 save according to Sky stats. Rowett has a certain way of doing things. We are just better suited to away games the way we set up. Caution at all costs. Very marginal if you look at these tables: www.soccerstats.com/homeaway.asp?league=england2Higher position, based on away games, but 11th won't get us to the play offs. More points at home.
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Post by jezzascfc on Nov 25, 2018 13:26:34 GMT
I had thought Jokanovic was a good shout for past vacancies. Right now, after another Rowett masterclass yesterday, as I am on the train to London at this moment, if Peter Coates gave me the nod, I'd pop round his house this afternoon to start negotiations for the club.
5 wins in 18 games, a startling lack of creativity and pace on the break, a creaking back line and a safety first mentality has left me firmly in the Rowett out camp. He will not get us promoted on current evidence, this season or ever.
Time for the owners to grow a pair.
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Post by mrred on Nov 25, 2018 13:38:08 GMT
It already feels like the Hughes scenario- should have been sacked in Summer 2018. The majority of fans can see that we should cut our losses and move on. Keeping Rowett and his dour brand of football will put us back more years.
We're so far behind in every aspect. I'm fucking dreading Derby.
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Post by GrahamHyde on Nov 25, 2018 13:39:47 GMT
We're shit. I'm bored. Time to go.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Nov 25, 2018 13:48:08 GMT
He isn’t going anywhere. We’ve spent £40m on Gary Rowett players. This is a Gary Rowett team. We’re stuck with it and him for the foreseeable. I see your point to an extent Rob but at the start of the season Scholes said that our intention was to go back up at the first time of trying and Coates has said that if we don't at least get into the play offs, then he will regard it as a total failure. Therefore I think it would be safe to assume that if this happened, then Rowett's employers would regard him as a failure and he would be fired and a new guy would have to come in and during the summer window, try and do something with the squad he has inherited. It's looking increasingly likely that Rowett isn't going to get anywhere near achieving the task he has been given, so why wait until the summer to make a decision that has the smell of inevitability about it already? The difference between making the decision now or leaving it until the summer, is that come the summer, we will be in a dreadful financial position, whereas now, we still do (if we get the right man in) have the opportunity to go back up at the first time of asking. If it doesn't happen, well at least we tried when we had the chance but having done so, we won't be in much of a worse position come the summer than if we hadn't. I'd suggest that the board are now in a very similar situation to the one they were in last November with Hughes. He should have been sacked then and a new man should have had December to assess the squad before the window opened in January but they bottled it and paid the consequences The big difference between now and then, is that at that time, there wasn't an obvious candidate to come in, now there very much is. Do you think that Coates will actually follow through and sack him Paul, if we don’t get to the playoffs. Coates actions aren’t always directly correlated with his words. I’d be afraid that a “manage the fans expectations” message will start to emerge with a whole host of excuses and GR will be here in August after securing the lofty heights of mid table
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 25, 2018 14:50:24 GMT
I see your point to an extent Rob but at the start of the season Scholes said that our intention was to go back up at the first time of trying and Coates has said that if we don't at least get into the play offs, then he will regard it as a total failure. Therefore I think it would be safe to assume that if this happened, then Rowett's employers would regard him as a failure and he would be fired and a new guy would have to come in and during the summer window, try and do something with the squad he has inherited. It's looking increasingly likely that Rowett isn't going to get anywhere near achieving the task he has been given, so why wait until the summer to make a decision that has the smell of inevitability about it already? The difference between making the decision now or leaving it until the summer, is that come the summer, we will be in a dreadful financial position, whereas now, we still do (if we get the right man in) have the opportunity to go back up at the first time of asking. If it doesn't happen, well at least we tried when we had the chance but having done so, we won't be in much of a worse position come the summer than if we hadn't. I'd suggest that the board are now in a very similar situation to the one they were in last November with Hughes. He should have been sacked then and a new man should have had December to assess the squad before the window opened in January but they bottled it and paid the consequences The big difference between now and then, is that at that time, there wasn't an obvious candidate to come in, now there very much is. Do you think that Coates will actually follow through and sack him Paul, if we don’t get to the playoffs. Coates actions aren’t always directly correlated with his words. I’d be afraid that a “manage the fans expectations” message will start to emerge with a whole host of excuses and GR will be here in August after securing the lofty heights of mid table He and his manager will have zero credibility going into the following season if he doesn't. He spelt out what he would regard as failure quite explicitly at the start of the season.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Nov 25, 2018 15:16:12 GMT
Do you think that Coates will actually follow through and sack him Paul, if we don’t get to the playoffs. Coates actions aren’t always directly correlated with his words. I’d be afraid that a “manage the fans expectations” message will start to emerge with a whole host of excuses and GR will be here in August after securing the lofty heights of mid table He and his manager will have zero credibility going into the following season if he doesn't. He spelt out what he would regard as failure quite explicitly at the start of the season. I agree, but that what I see happening. Can’t see Coates reaching for his money clip again especially with reducing revenue
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Post by chiswickpotter on Nov 25, 2018 15:25:26 GMT
Agree with most of this, however not many of this team will be around next year for various reasons and we will be starting again on a much smaller budget. Why will it be smaller? We get £10m less in parachute payments but assuming we sell a few players, we will have a similar budget
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Nov 25, 2018 15:33:58 GMT
I see your point to an extent Rob but at the start of the season Scholes said that our intention was to go back up at the first time of trying and Coates has said that if we don't at least get into the play offs, then he will regard it as a total failure. Therefore I think it would be safe to assume that if this happened, then Rowett's employers would regard him as a failure and he would be fired and a new guy would have to come in and during the summer window, try and do something with the squad he has inherited. It's looking increasingly likely that Rowett isn't going to get anywhere near achieving the task he has been given, so why wait until the summer to make a decision that has the smell of inevitability about it already? The difference between making the decision now or leaving it until the summer, is that come the summer, we will be in a dreadful financial position, whereas now, we still do (if we get the right man in) have the opportunity to go back up at the first time of asking. If it doesn't happen, well at least we tried when we had the chance but having done so, we won't be in much of a worse position come the summer than if we hadn't. I'd suggest that the board are now in a very similar situation to the one they were in last November with Hughes. He should have been sacked then and a new man should have had December to assess the squad before the window opened in January but they bottled it and paid the consequences The big difference between now and then, is that at that time, there wasn't an obvious candidate to come in, now there very much is. Do you think that Coates will actually follow through and sack him Paul, if we don’t get to the playoffs. Coates actions aren’t always directly correlated with his words. I’d be afraid that a “manage the fans expectations” message will start to emerge with a whole host of excuses and GR will be here in August after securing the lofty heights of mid table Agreed. I can almost hear the "It takes time to create a team.....there was a mess when he got here he had to sort out...this division is harder than any of us realised...there are lots of quality sides in this division who all expect to go up but only 3 can etc etc" bullshit backtracking already. Took me a while to come round to the "time to go" idea with both Hughes and Pulis as to be fair both had earned the chance to put things right when they started to flounder. Rowett's spent a shitload, got HIS players in and still can't come up with any sort of cohesive unit with more than a third of the season gone..he's got fuck all credit in the bank when it comes to the "just give him a chance" idea. I want him gone, a lot want him gone, even those that want to give him a chance seem to acknowledge their idea isn't really based on anything other than he MAY turn it around, and the idea that he MAY achieve something is poles away from what Coates said about it being a failure if we don't make the play offs. It'll simply be a question of whether us getting to where we should be as a team with the financial backing we have (and have had in the summer) is more important to Coates than him having to admit he got it wrong in appointing Rowett.
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Post by stonestokie76 on Nov 25, 2018 15:56:11 GMT
Well I'm guessing that Allen, Ince, Butland, Williams, Bauer, Martina, Woods, Afobe off the top of my head won't be playing in the champ again next year. Agree with most of this, however not many of this team will be around next year for various reasons and we will be starting again on a much smaller budget. Why will it be smaller? We get £10m less in parachute payments but assuming we sell a few players, we will have a similar budget
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Nov 25, 2018 16:27:06 GMT
apart from every time he comes on. Bojan did nothing when he came on.... just like he's done nothing for 3 clubs in the last 3 years Bojan looked decent when he came on.... Even though he was all stripped and ready to come on earlier, then told to sit back down again!!! That would piss any player off, especially a player of Bojan's caliber, watching half that team strutting their stuff while you're stuck on the bench week after week!!!
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Post by FullerMagic on Nov 25, 2018 18:02:37 GMT
Based on Expected Goals stats (think this was before this weekend), we're apparently reasonably lucky to be as high as we are. This analysis has us as the 17th best performing team so far.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Nov 25, 2018 18:09:40 GMT
Based on Expected Goals stats (think this was before this weekend), we're apparently reasonably lucky to be as high as we are. This analysis has us as the 17th best performing team so far. Damning and further proof that our eyes do not lie.
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Post by thevoid on Nov 25, 2018 18:11:18 GMT
Can someone explain 'Expected Goals' for me please?
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Nov 25, 2018 18:13:55 GMT
Can someone explain 'Expected Goals' for me please? It was Hughes nickname for Berahino 😂
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2018 18:29:30 GMT
Based on Expected Goals stats (think this was before this weekend), we're apparently reasonably lucky to be as high as we are. This analysis has us as the 17th best performing team so far. Damning and further proof that our eyes do not lie. In response to that though, we had almost 2 higher xG than QPR yesterday, suggesting we were by far and away the dominant team in the game.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2018 18:31:33 GMT
Can someone explain 'Expected Goals' for me please? As far as I understand, it gives a numerical value between 0 and 1 for each chance in the game, based on position, players who could block the shot, etc. based on historical statistics of similar chances. We had an xG of over 2 yesterday, while QPR had under 1 I believe. It's normally an excellent show of which team has created the better chances in games.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Nov 25, 2018 18:34:31 GMT
Can someone explain 'Expected Goals' for me please? As far as I understand, it gives a numerical value between 0 and 1 for each chance in the game, based on position, players who could block the shot, etc. based on historical statistics of similar chances. We had an xG of over 2 yesterday, while QPR had under 1 I believe. It's normally an excellent show of which team has created the better chances in games. I’m old school, I prefer the “actual goal” metric myself
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Post by thevoid on Nov 25, 2018 18:34:50 GMT
Can someone explain 'Expected Goals' for me please? As far as I understand, it gives a numerical value between 0 and 1 for each chance in the game, based on position, players who could block the shot, etc. based on historical statistics of similar chances. We had an xG of over 2 yesterday, while QPR had under 1 I believe. It's normally an excellent show of which team has created the better chances in games. OK mate, thanks.
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Post by enuntio on Nov 25, 2018 20:53:09 GMT
I gave him/Coats until the end of November. Sack him and try to get el Fatso. Or do we persevere with What we've got? Closer to relegation than promotion BUT, any decent run and... Mediocrity is just not good enough... SACK HIM NOW full stop ;-) By "el Fatso, I assume you mean Rafael Benitez? If so, what are you smoking? We had slim to no chance of getting him when we were in the prem, do you really think there is any realistic scenario he ends up here? Wouldn't have thought he'd go to Newcastle, but he did, and in the Championship too. Realistically I don't think we will get him and as a matter of fact, I don't need to smoke to dream :-p
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2018 21:30:28 GMT
Spent £50m for a mid-table Championship team, not a mid-table Premier League team
I would not shed a tear if he went
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Post by TexasPotter on Nov 25, 2018 22:27:44 GMT
Spent £50m for a mid-table Championship team, not a mid-table Premier League team I would not shed a tear if he went I would pop open a bottle of Laphroaig if he did 😊 and cheer! He's an attrocious manager and the table facts show it.
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