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Post by GoBoks on Nov 24, 2018 20:48:10 GMT
I gave him/Coats until the end of November. Sack him and try to get el Fatso. Or do we persevere with What we've got? Closer to relegation than promotion BUT, any decent run and... Mediocrity is just not good enough... SACK HIM NOW full stop ;-) By "el Fatso, I assume you mean Rafael Benitez? If so, what are you smoking? We had slim to no chance of getting him when we were in the prem, do you really think there is any realistic scenario he ends up here?
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Post by mrred on Nov 24, 2018 20:49:21 GMT
I’ve seen enough to know he’s a manager that will forever float around with Championship teams in the mid to lower half. He’s an entirely unambitious manager that will never achieve anything of note during his career. Like him or not, he’ll never have the sort of career someone like Neil Warnock has had. When he signed (not knowing any better) I honestly ecpected that he’d light a fire under the players arses, getting their heads back in gear and have us in the top 2 more or less most of the season. We have the players for it, he’s spent enough for it, he’s bought a small army of coaches, he’s vastly underachieving. He’s just a very dour, forgettable man. Just like his football. He said a few months ago to judge him on this group of players. With this set up, constantly buying average Championship players, we’re here for the long haul and the Premier League is nothing but a distant memory at this point. Rowett could only dream of having a career like Neil Warnock Absolutely mate. Thought it was a good example. Though he’s never really broken into the Pemier League, he’s a master at this level. Again something he’ll never be recognised as.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Nov 24, 2018 20:49:40 GMT
ROWETT OUT
The tactics, approach pattern of play, everything, is confused and incoherent.
It is never going to click under Rowett. It is god awful and depressing to watch
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Post by towraytek on Nov 24, 2018 20:58:18 GMT
We have played 17 games and have 23 points. After 17 games in promotion season 62/63 we had (using modern scoring) 27 points. In 2007/2008 (another promotion season) after 17 games we had 26 points. Not a million miles off are we, whatever Mr & Mrs Grump say.
Ek
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Nov 24, 2018 21:00:38 GMT
We have played 17 games and have 23 points. After 17 games in promotion season 62/63 we had (using modern scoring) 27 points. In 2007/2008 (another promotion season) after 17 games we had 26 points. Not a million miles off are we, whatever Mr & Mrs Grump say. Ek The gap between us and the play offs is getting too big now. And 1 win in 6 suggests it will keep getting bigger. We are getting worse all the time in my opinion. The gap is getting bigger each game
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2018 21:03:32 GMT
We have played 17 games and have 23 points. After 17 games in promotion season 62/63 we had (using modern scoring) 27 points. In 2007/2008 (another promotion season) after 17 games we had 26 points. Not a million miles off are we, whatever Mr & Mrs Grump say. Ek The pasteans nothing. Are we going to spend big in Jan? No Isour sqaud creating much? No Is this manager going to change the tactics to address the problem? No We ain't going anywhere soon!
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Post by iglugluk on Nov 24, 2018 21:03:51 GMT
We have played 17 games and have 23 points. After 17 games in promotion season 62/63 we had (using modern scoring) 27 points. In 2007/2008 (another promotion season) after 17 games we had 26 points. Not a million miles off are we, whatever Mr & Mrs Grump say. Ek I'd say that the major difference is that our current vector is downwards and has been for quite some time.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Nov 24, 2018 21:11:31 GMT
I wonder if The Coates family were listening to the silence for 75/80 minutes.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2018 21:14:34 GMT
Just watching EFL on quest.
Plucky old Rotherham getting a 2-2 draw against Sheffield United.
They had 26 shots on goal, 8 on target.
Today, 50M worth of talent had 14 shots, 3 on target against QPR.
I can only ask why?
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Post by WorkingclassHero on Nov 25, 2018 10:08:11 GMT
Don't care who we bring in, but give them the rest of this season to get a squad together for a push next year.
Flog Butkand, Allen, Bauer, Pieters in Jan.
Send back Williams and Martina
Release McClean
Then build a young side out if what we have.
New Keeper
Edwards New CH Indi New LB
Ince Clucas Woods New LW
Bojan Berahinho
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Post by mickstupp on Nov 25, 2018 10:12:02 GMT
Don't care who we bring in, but give them the rest of this season to get a squad together for a push next year. Flog Butkand, Allen, Bauer, Pieters in Jan. Send back Williams and Martina Release McClean Then build a young side out if what we have. New Keeper Edwards New CH Indi New LB Ince Clucas Woods New LW Bojan Berahinho That looks like a one way ticket down to league 1 to me
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Post by werrington on Nov 25, 2018 10:15:35 GMT
I do wish people would take time out to understand how a season long loan actually works out
It’s pretty basic stuff
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 25, 2018 10:19:45 GMT
I agree with "sack him", but I think a decent manager could yet turn this squad around. The answer is teamwork, which we are bereft of attacking and defending.
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Post by clintonbaptiste on Nov 25, 2018 10:20:03 GMT
I see where you're coming from but then you stated 'I don't care who we bring in', you should do, we're already going round in circles.
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Post by Teanstokie1 on Nov 25, 2018 10:24:55 GMT
Don't care who we bring in, but give them the rest of this season to get a squad together for a push next year. Flog Butkand, Allen, Bauer, Pieters in Jan. Send back Williams and Martina Release McClean Then build a young side out if what we have. New Keeper Edwards New CH Indi New LB Ince Clucas Woods New LW Bojan Berahinho
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Post by 19notbeaten72 on Nov 25, 2018 10:39:25 GMT
Don't care who we bring in, but give them the rest of this season to get a squad together for a push next year. Flog Butkand, Allen, Bauer, Pieters in Jan. Send back Williams and Martina Release McClean Then build a young side out if what we have. New Keeper Edwards New CH Indi New LB Ince Clucas Woods New LW Bojan Berahinho I think your comment about not caring who we bring in has led to the mess we are now in. I agree in the sacking part as he should never have been given the job as he has actually done nothing to of note in the game.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 25, 2018 11:33:59 GMT
He isn’t going anywhere. We’ve spent £40m on Gary Rowett players. This is a Gary Rowett team. We’re stuck with it and him for the foreseeable. I see your point to an extent Rob but at the start of the season Scholes said that our intention was to go back up at the first time of trying and Coates has said that if we don't at least get into the play offs, then he will regard it as a total failure. Therefore I think it would be safe to assume that if this happened, then Rowett's employers would regard him as a failure and he would be fired and a new guy would have to come in and during the summer window, try and do something with the squad he has inherited. It's looking increasingly likely that Rowett isn't going to get anywhere near achieving the task he has been given, so why wait until the summer to make a decision that has the smell of inevitability about it already? The difference between making the decision now or leaving it until the summer, is that come the summer, we will be in a dreadful financial position, whereas now, we still do (if we get the right man in) have the opportunity to go back up at the first time of asking. If it doesn't happen, well at least we tried when we had the chance but having done so, we won't be in much of a worse position come the summer than if we hadn't. I'd suggest that the board are now in a very similar situation to the one they were in last November with Hughes. He should have been sacked then and a new man should have had December to assess the squad before the window opened in January but they bottled it and paid the consequences The big difference between now and then, is that at that time, there wasn't an obvious candidate to come in, now there very much is.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 25, 2018 11:47:05 GMT
He isn’t going anywhere. We’ve spent £40m on Gary Rowett players. This is a Gary Rowett team. We’re stuck with it and him for the foreseeable. I see your point to an extent Rob but at the start of the season Scholes said that our intention was to go back up at the first time of trying and Coates has said that if we don't at least get into the play offs, then he will regard it as a total failure. Therefore I think it would be safe to assume that if this happened, then Rowett's employers would regard him as a failure and he would be fired and a new guy would have to come in and during the summer window, try and do something with the squad he has inherited. It's looking increasingly likely that Rowett isn't going to get anywhere near achieving the task he has been given, so why wait until the summer to make a decision that has the smell of inevitability about it already? The difference between making the decision now or leaving it until the summer, is that come the summer, we will be in a dreadful financial position, whereas now, we still do (if we get the right man in) have the opportunity to go back up at the first time of asking. If it doesn't happen, well at least we tried when we had the chance but having done so, we won't be in much of a worse position come the summer than if we hadn't. I'd suggest that the board are now in a very similar situation to the one they were in last November with Hughes. He should have been sacked then and a new man should have had December to assess the squad before the window opened in January but they bottled it and paid the consequences The big difference between now and then, is that at that time, there wasn't an obvious candidate to come in, now there very much is. Do you think that's how the owners see things though Paul? If the obvious candidate is Jokanovic, that also means them giving him at least as big a warchest as they gave Rowett to accommodate his way of playing. I just don't see them doing it. They've invested big time in this guy and as grim as we are and as far away from the mix as they are, knowing what we know about 'the family' I don't think they'd act until things were Sunderland-level dire.
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Post by TexasPotter on Nov 25, 2018 11:48:29 GMT
He isn’t going anywhere. We’ve spent £40m on Gary Rowett players. This is a Gary Rowett team. We’re stuck with it and him for the foreseeable. I see your point to an extent Rob but at the start of the season Scholes said that our intention was to go back up at the first time of trying and Coates has said that if we don't at least get into the play offs, then he will regard it as a total failure. Therefore I think it would be safe to assume that if this happened, then Rowett's employers would regard him as a failure and he would be fired and a new guy would have to come in and during the summer window, try and do something with the squad he has inherited. It's looking increasingly likely that Rowett isn't going to get anywhere near achieving the task he has been given, so why wait until the summer to make a decision that has the smell of inevitability about it already? The difference between making the decision now or leaving it until the summer, is that come the summer, we will be in a dreadful financial position, whereas now, we still do (if we get the right man in) have the opportunity to go back up at the first time of asking. If it doesn't happen, well at least we tried when we had the chance but having done so, we won't be in much of a worse position come the summer than if we hadn't. I'd suggest that the board are now in a very similar situation to the one they were in last November with Hughes. He should have been sacked then and a new man should have had December to assess the squad before the window opened in January but they bottled it and paid the consequences The big difference between now and then, is that at that time, there wasn't an obvious candidate to come in, now there very much is. That level of thinking is clearly beyond some of the folks on here Paul. They'd rather continued dressing room and off the field distractions, poor lineups, bizarre selections and continue this irreverent benevolence towards the man appointed, rather the clubs overall situation.
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Post by thevoid on Nov 25, 2018 11:50:15 GMT
If he went it would make not one iota of difference with the 'old white man' running the show. What the hell does the color of Coates' skin got to do with anything? Old white men seem to get the blame for most things, in this case it's probably a fair call.
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Nov 25, 2018 12:11:23 GMT
He isn’t going anywhere. We’ve spent £40m on Gary Rowett players. This is a Gary Rowett team. We’re stuck with it and him for the foreseeable. I see your point to an extent Rob but at the start of the season Scholes said that our intention was to go back up at the first time of trying and Coates has said that if we don't at least get into the play offs, then he will regard it as a total failure. He also said: What's all the fuss about? Lessons will be learned! And other platitudes for the masses. Look out for his Christmas DVD!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2018 12:17:47 GMT
The tactics aren't the issue. I think the 433 is actually the best option we have, aside from possibly a 4231 which really isn't that different and is probably more defensive in reality.
The problem is that we can't play the 433 and create lots of chances without one of the centre mids being creative. It has to be Bojan taking up one of those centre mid spots.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 25, 2018 12:21:46 GMT
I see your point to an extent Rob but at the start of the season Scholes said that our intention was to go back up at the first time of trying and Coates has said that if we don't at least get into the play offs, then he will regard it as a total failure. Therefore I think it would be safe to assume that if this happened, then Rowett's employers would regard him as a failure and he would be fired and a new guy would have to come in and during the summer window, try and do something with the squad he has inherited. It's looking increasingly likely that Rowett isn't going to get anywhere near achieving the task he has been given, so why wait until the summer to make a decision that has the smell of inevitability about it already? The difference between making the decision now or leaving it until the summer, is that come the summer, we will be in a dreadful financial position, whereas now, we still do (if we get the right man in) have the opportunity to go back up at the first time of asking. If it doesn't happen, well at least we tried when we had the chance but having done so, we won't be in much of a worse position come the summer than if we hadn't. I'd suggest that the board are now in a very similar situation to the one they were in last November with Hughes. He should have been sacked then and a new man should have had December to assess the squad before the window opened in January but they bottled it and paid the consequences The big difference between now and then, is that at that time, there wasn't an obvious candidate to come in, now there very much is. Do you think that's how the owners see things though Paul? If the obvious candidate is Jokanovic, that also means them giving him at least as big a warchest as they gave Rowett to accommodate his way of playing. I just don't see them doing it. They've invested big time in this guy and as grim as we are and as far away from the mix as they are, knowing what we know about 'the family' I don't think they'd act until things were Sunderland-level dire. I think that's how any logical (incredibly wealthy) person should see it Rob. It doesn't matter one jot how much you've got invested in the guy if you can already see you're not going to a get a return on that investment. What is the argument for waiting for five months, just so that you make an inevitable decision then and in the meantime deny yourself the opportunity to do it at the first time of asking, leaving the club in a much more perilous position financially? It makes absolutely no sense to me.
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Post by cousindupree on Nov 25, 2018 12:25:55 GMT
He isn’t going anywhere. We’ve spent £40m on Gary Rowett players. This is a Gary Rowett team. We’re stuck with it and him for the foreseeable. I see your point to an extent Rob but at the start of the season Scholes said that our intention was to go back up at the first time of trying and Coates has said that if we don't at least get into the play offs, then he will regard it as a total failure. Therefore I think it would be safe to assume that if this happened, then Rowett's employers would regard him as a failure and he would be fired and a new guy would have to come in and during the summer window, try and do something with the squad he has inherited. It's looking increasingly likely that Rowett isn't going to get anywhere near achieving the task he has been given, so why wait until the summer to make a decision that has the smell of inevitability about it already? The difference between making the decision now or leaving it until the summer, is that come the summer, we will be in a dreadful financial position, whereas now, we still do (if we get the right man in) have the opportunity to go back up at the first time of asking. If it doesn't happen, well at least we tried when we had the chance but having done so, we won't be in much of a worse position come the summer than if we hadn't. I'd suggest that the board are now in a very similar situation to the one they were in last November with Hughes. He should have been sacked then and a new man should have had December to assess the squad before the window opened in January but they bottled it and paid the consequences The big difference between now and then, is that at that time, there wasn't an obvious candidate to come in, now there very much is. Good post Paul, we are nearing the half way point and unless we go on a 3/4 game winning run we will be a long way off the pace even for the playoffs. Jokanovic is available and has the record of success that Rowett doesn't have. The concern would be whether Jokanovic could get Rowett's team performing as he is known for much more expansive entertaining style. His Fulham team last season was a joy to watch and turned over a negative Rowett in the playoffs. But Hughes turned a turgid Pulis team into something much more entertaining and successful quite quickly and at no great cost. Surely if Jokanovic can get Fulham promoted he could do the same with us. As each game passes it becomes more evident that Rowett doesn't have the management skills to get out of this division. He is clearly an average Championship manager whose career seems destined to stall at this level.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 25, 2018 12:28:40 GMT
I see your point to an extent Rob but at the start of the season Scholes said that our intention was to go back up at the first time of trying and Coates has said that if we don't at least get into the play offs, then he will regard it as a total failure. Therefore I think it would be safe to assume that if this happened, then Rowett's employers would regard him as a failure and he would be fired and a new guy would have to come in and during the summer window, try and do something with the squad he has inherited. It's looking increasingly likely that Rowett isn't going to get anywhere near achieving the task he has been given, so why wait until the summer to make a decision that has the smell of inevitability about it already? The difference between making the decision now or leaving it until the summer, is that come the summer, we will be in a dreadful financial position, whereas now, we still do (if we get the right man in) have the opportunity to go back up at the first time of asking. If it doesn't happen, well at least we tried when we had the chance but having done so, we won't be in much of a worse position come the summer than if we hadn't. I'd suggest that the board are now in a very similar situation to the one they were in last November with Hughes. He should have been sacked then and a new man should have had December to assess the squad before the window opened in January but they bottled it and paid the consequences The big difference between now and then, is that at that time, there wasn't an obvious candidate to come in, now there very much is. That level of thinking is clearly beyond some of the folks on here Paul. They'd rather continued dressing room and off the field distractions, poor lineups, bizarre selections and continue this irreverent benevolence towards the man appointed, rather the clubs overall situation. Who is? I’m not, he can go tomorrow for me.
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Post by JoeinOz on Nov 25, 2018 12:28:54 GMT
I see your point to an extent Rob but at the start of the season Scholes said that our intention was to go back up at the first time of trying and Coates has said that if we don't at least get into the play offs, then he will regard it as a total failure. Therefore I think it would be safe to assume that if this happened, then Rowett's employers would regard him as a failure and he would be fired and a new guy would have to come in and during the summer window, try and do something with the squad he has inherited. It's looking increasingly likely that Rowett isn't going to get anywhere near achieving the task he has been given, so why wait until the summer to make a decision that has the smell of inevitability about it already? The difference between making the decision now or leaving it until the summer, is that come the summer, we will be in a dreadful financial position, whereas now, we still do (if we get the right man in) have the opportunity to go back up at the first time of asking. If it doesn't happen, well at least we tried when we had the chance but having done so, we won't be in much of a worse position come the summer than if we hadn't. I'd suggest that the board are now in a very similar situation to the one they were in last November with Hughes. He should have been sacked then and a new man should have had December to assess the squad before the window opened in January but they bottled it and paid the consequences The big difference between now and then, is that at that time, there wasn't an obvious candidate to come in, now there very much is. Do you think that's how the owners see things though Paul? If the obvious candidate is Jokanovic, that also means them giving him at least as big a warchest as they gave Rowett to accommodate his way of playing. I just don't see them doing it. They've invested big time in this guy and as grim as we are and as far away from the mix as they are, knowing what we know about 'the family' I don't think they'd act until things were Sunderland-level dire. Amid talk of budgets and warchests a different manager could get a lot more from the current squad. In terms of both results and style.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 25, 2018 12:32:56 GMT
Do you think that's how the owners see things though Paul? If the obvious candidate is Jokanovic, that also means them giving him at least as big a warchest as they gave Rowett to accommodate his way of playing. I just don't see them doing it. They've invested big time in this guy and as grim as we are and as far away from the mix as they are, knowing what we know about 'the family' I don't think they'd act until things were Sunderland-level dire. I think that's how any logical (incredibly wealthy) person should see it Rob. It doesn't matter one jot how much you've got invested in the guy if you can already see you're not going to a get a return on that investment. What is the argument for waiting for five months just so that you make an inevitable decision then and in the meantime deny yourself the opportunity to do it at the first time of asking, leaving the club in a much more perilous position financially? It makes absolutely no sense to me. I don’t think they’ll see it as inevitable Paul. When Hughes was sacked the official statement acknowledged they’d given him too much time, but also stated they’d continue to give managerial appointments time. They hadn’t even made a decision on Lambert until he himself forced the issue. I think they’ll give him the season at least and maybe longer, horrifyingly.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 25, 2018 12:33:54 GMT
Do you think that's how the owners see things though Paul? If the obvious candidate is Jokanovic, that also means them giving him at least as big a warchest as they gave Rowett to accommodate his way of playing. I just don't see them doing it. They've invested big time in this guy and as grim as we are and as far away from the mix as they are, knowing what we know about 'the family' I don't think they'd act until things were Sunderland-level dire. Amid talk of budgets and warchests a different manager could get a lot more from the current squad. In terms of both results and style. I agree but I think it’d be a manager cut from the same cloth only better at it (eg Moyes) rather than someone who plays a totally different style.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2018 12:36:50 GMT
He will be our manager all of this season unless we start flirting with relegation. Mind you, that's only six points away.....
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 25, 2018 12:37:08 GMT
I think that's how any logical (incredibly wealthy) person should see it Rob. It doesn't matter one jot how much you've got invested in the guy if you can already see you're not going to a get a return on that investment. What is the argument for waiting for five months just so that you make an inevitable decision then and in the meantime deny yourself the opportunity to do it at the first time of asking, leaving the club in a much more perilous position financially? It makes absolutely no sense to me. I don’t think they’ll see it as inevitable Paul. When Hughes was sacked the official statement acknowledged they’d given him too much time, but also stated they’d continue to give managerial appointments time. They hadn’t even made a decision on Lambert until he himself forced the issue. I think they’ll give him the season at least and maybe longer, horrifyingly. If we don't make the play offs, then I don't see how they could possibly continue with him, when they very publicly stated what they would regard failure as being.
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