|
Jese.
Dec 6, 2017 13:16:08 GMT
Post by FullerMagic on Dec 6, 2017 13:16:08 GMT
|
|
|
Jese.
Dec 6, 2017 13:19:00 GMT
Post by kustokie on Dec 6, 2017 13:19:00 GMT
In fairness to TP he tended to keep his cock-ups in the single digit gaffe 6-8 million range (Kison, Palacios..) whereas Sparky and the current transfer team prefer to go for the full double digit blunder 12-18 million (Imbula, Berahino, Kev Wimmer). Pretty much the same after inflation.
|
|
|
Post by Gods on Dec 6, 2017 13:21:24 GMT
Doh - I meant Kitson of course! Corrected on the original. Meh, they're both ginger, understandable Yes, I always mix them up, both 2 syllables, Sid and Kit, Son and Well, and they both had about the same amount (nothing) to offer
|
|
|
Jese.
Dec 6, 2017 13:22:11 GMT
Post by chigstoke on Dec 6, 2017 13:22:11 GMT
He looks like a fucking terrorist on that tweet
|
|
|
Post by alster on Dec 6, 2017 14:23:57 GMT
Yeah we go backwards sideways and then launch it in no matter who's up top. We play loads of aerial balls into Berahino when he plays that's why the majority of his better chances have been headers despite the fact he's not great in the air and has no history of scoring headed goals. Players like Berahino and Gabbiadini thrive on good early passes from the midfield which is something we just don't do even our best player Shaq(suppose you still don't rate him) holds the ball far to long to play to the strengths of that type of forward. If you are going to piss about with the ball and allow your striker to get swamped by defenders you need a player with far greater strength. We always piss about with the ball and our striker is always swamped because we move the ball too slowly and don't commit many bodies forward in open play. So it's not the strikers then, it is the other crap players he signs, including Shaqiri? Reference Shaqiri, I've always acknowledged what a good player he is I think. Considering he can be so good, I've never really warmed to him, probably because he doesn't seem to need much excuse no to play, regularly plays and talks like he's doing us a favour and because our big money, star player, has to play for more than half a season. He's been incredibly frustrating in a Stoke shirt up to this season, predominantly because every time he found himself in good form, he got injured. I doubt all of our midfielders are unable to see and play an early pass you'd think its how they are coached to play imo they try to be too safe with everything. We are very lucky to have a player like Shaq, do other teams of our level have such a player? I don't think they do.
|
|
|
Jese.
Dec 6, 2017 14:28:29 GMT
via mobile
Post by crouchpotato1 on Dec 6, 2017 14:28:29 GMT
On Saturday I remember Jese returning to the dugout just as the double substitution was made in the 2nd half and to say he looked pissed off would be an understatement.Not surprised at all by this story having witnessed Jese shaking his head as he got close to the Home dugout And after that change he walked off to the changing rooms gesturing to someone in the crowd . It's not the action of a team player is It? I didn’t realise that mate and like you say it certainly isn’t something a team player would do. He looked like he was going on the stage at the Royal Ballet last Wednesday when he came on
|
|
|
Jese.
Dec 6, 2017 14:36:44 GMT
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 6, 2017 14:36:44 GMT
Crouch wasn't a Hughes signing. Diouf's goal record is ok but he isn't a lone striker and never really has been. His hold up and link play isn't good enough to be. He's still the best option we've got. Joselu was, according to the club, a longtime target. His best work had come as part of a strike duo. The first reports of our interest in Berahino surfaced a good 2-3 windows before we actually signed him. And we actually bid £20m for him at one stage, which is more than either Wood or Gabbiadini cost. Again, his best form had been as part of a front two. I forgot about Joselu. Easy to do I guess. Newcastle fans will soon be forgetting about him as well or at least wishing they could. Diouf is quick and strong. His touch is crap, granted, but he's an aerial threat and he can run the channels. He's perfect to play the lone role ahead of our creative players. It is a mystery how Hughes has used him. Crouch wasn't a Hughes signing but he's better for us now than he was when he was ambling across the front line in a TP team. Berahino is the strange one for me. He's doesn't seem particularly quick, he is not good aerially and he has no physicality to speak of. If he is a player Hughes desperately wanted and was his no1 choice then fair enough...he'll be rightly slammed. If he was the player the transfer team identified as the solution to what Hughes was asking for, then all they all need to be asking themselves serious questions. Had we got Gabbiadini, would we have gone for Berahino? Had we got Dzeko (you'll probably laugh at that but Hughes thought he'd got him before we opened the door for Roma to step in), would we have gone for Diouf? Who knows? However you dress it up and wherever fault lies, our big money signings in all areas of the pitch simply haven't been good enough to date and that is the biggest reason why we find ourselves in the apparent mess we are in at the moment. EDIT - if you look at the managers comments about every signing, you will see he mentions him being a long time target, even referencing his interest in them at previous clubs. He noticed Choupo at the same time he signed Dembele for Fulham if you believe everything Hughes says. Doesn't make it true does it? Could he be towing the party line with the club? Maybe he does track all his signings for ages but he's just good at spotting a good player from a bad player. I don't think Diouf is anything like perfect to play as a lone striker Dave. A lone striker has to have some kind of skill in link play. I like Diouf but that's where he falls down. I don't think Hughes has signed anyone he didn't want to and his interest in Berahino long preceded any links to Gabbiadini. Choupo was mentioned as an option a good few months before we signed him as was Joselu. If we were really hanging our hat on getting Dzeko that's pretty worrying. Almost TP-levels of chasing rainbows. I think he just doesn't know what kind of striker he wants. The fact we went for RVP, Bony and Berahino all in the same summer certainly lends weight to that idea.
|
|
|
Jese.
Dec 6, 2017 14:39:02 GMT
Post by jimmygscfc on Dec 6, 2017 14:39:02 GMT
I don't think Hughes dare risk a maverick talent like Jese given the brown stuff we're in. It's not as if he didn't know what we were bringing in. It's a shame for both parties.
|
|
|
Jese.
Dec 6, 2017 14:42:35 GMT
Post by Gods on Dec 6, 2017 14:42:35 GMT
I don't think Hughes dare risk a maverick talent like Jese given the brown stuff we're in. It's not as if he didn't know what we were bringing in. It's a shame for both parties. Yes, I think we may have seen more of Jese and perhaps 1 or 2 of the youngsters if we had a few more league points on the board. It's going to continue to be 'job-in-hand'/'needs-must' pragmatic selections and tactics until such time as (hopefully) we do.
|
|
|
Jese.
Dec 6, 2017 14:44:41 GMT
Post by alster on Dec 6, 2017 14:44:41 GMT
I don't think Hughes dare risk a maverick talent like Jese given the brown stuff we're in. It's not as if he didn't know what we were bringing in. It's a shame for both parties. That's his problem he daren't risk anything. That's why we've become so poor to watch and win so few games. He's become a safety first merchant.
|
|
|
Jese.
Dec 6, 2017 14:46:45 GMT
via mobile
Post by Gary Hackett on Dec 6, 2017 14:46:45 GMT
In fairness to TP he tended to keep his cock-ups in the single digit gaffe 6-8 million range (Kison, Palacios..) whereas Sparky and the current transfer team prefer to go for the full double digit blunder 12-18 million (Imbula, Berahino, Kev Wimmer). Inflation
|
|
|
Jese.
Dec 6, 2017 14:52:59 GMT
via mobile
Post by lordb on Dec 6, 2017 14:52:59 GMT
I don't think Hughes dare risk a maverick talent like Jese given the brown stuff we're in. It's not as if he didn't know what we were bringing in. It's a shame for both parties. That's his problem he daren't risk anything. That's why we've become so poor to watch and win so few games. He's become a safety first merchant. Most managers do 😑
|
|
|
Jese.
Dec 6, 2017 15:00:15 GMT
Post by alster on Dec 6, 2017 15:00:15 GMT
That's his problem he daren't risk anything. That's why we've become so poor to watch and win so few games. He's become a safety first merchant. Most managers do 😑 Despite the evidence that it isn't successful, peculiar folk.
|
|
|
Jese.
Dec 6, 2017 15:20:44 GMT
via mobile
Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 6, 2017 15:20:44 GMT
I forgot about Joselu. Easy to do I guess. Newcastle fans will soon be forgetting about him as well or at least wishing they could. Diouf is quick and strong. His touch is crap, granted, but he's an aerial threat and he can run the channels. He's perfect to play the lone role ahead of our creative players. It is a mystery how Hughes has used him. Crouch wasn't a Hughes signing but he's better for us now than he was when he was ambling across the front line in a TP team. Berahino is the strange one for me. He's doesn't seem particularly quick, he is not good aerially and he has no physicality to speak of. If he is a player Hughes desperately wanted and was his no1 choice then fair enough...he'll be rightly slammed. If he was the player the transfer team identified as the solution to what Hughes was asking for, then all they all need to be asking themselves serious questions. Had we got Gabbiadini, would we have gone for Berahino? Had we got Dzeko (you'll probably laugh at that but Hughes thought he'd got him before we opened the door for Roma to step in), would we have gone for Diouf? Who knows? However you dress it up and wherever fault lies, our big money signings in all areas of the pitch simply haven't been good enough to date and that is the biggest reason why we find ourselves in the apparent mess we are in at the moment. EDIT - if you look at the managers comments about every signing, you will see he mentions him being a long time target, even referencing his interest in them at previous clubs. He noticed Choupo at the same time he signed Dembele for Fulham if you believe everything Hughes says. Doesn't make it true does it? Could he be towing the party line with the club? Maybe he does track all his signings for ages but he's just good at spotting a good player from a bad player. I don't think Diouf is anything like perfect to play as a lone striker Dave. A lone striker has to have some kind of skill in link play. I like Diouf but that's where he falls down. I don't think Hughes has signed anyone he didn't want to and his interest in Berahino long preceded any links to Gabbiadini. Choupo was mentioned as an option a good few months before we signed him as was Joselu. If we were really hanging our hat on getting Dzeko that's pretty worrying. Almost TP-levels of chasing rainbows. I think he just doesn't know what kind of striker he wants. The fact we went for RVP, Bony and Berahino all in the same summer certainly lends weight to that idea. It wasn't a case of hanging his hat on dzeko...He was convinced he'd successfully convinced him to join us and was assisted in the process by the influence of his good friend asmir begovic. The powers that bd couldnt reach agreement with man city or the player himself and he went to Roma. Judging by your posts you seem to believe absolutely everything you read in the papers. RVP Interestingly I've just been listening to how klopp wanted to sign benteke whilst manager at Dortmund only to discard him immediately when he actually got to manage him at Liverpool. Seems it's not only Hughes who can sign or attempt to sign a player thinking one thing only to realise something totally different once the player gets through the door. Without going round in even more circles, I think we can all agree that we've spent big money badly with pretty much every 10m+ signing having serious question marks against them, including Shaqiri.
|
|
|
Jese.
Dec 6, 2017 15:26:37 GMT
Post by dg19531 on Dec 6, 2017 15:26:37 GMT
On the face of it Jese is unfortunate to have been discarded as a first choice. He has put in a few lack lustre performances whilst his son was ill but presumably merits another chance if and when his son ceases to be a worry. However presumably MH knows something we don't and so has relegated him to the bench.
|
|
|
Post by jezzascfc on Dec 6, 2017 15:29:24 GMT
That's his problem he daren't risk anything. That's why we've become so poor to watch and win so few games. He's become a safety first merchant. Most managers do 😑 Agreed - over time most managers outside the top 6 become focused on the TP mantra of "let's get to 40 points". Survival generally means keeping their jobs, unless the club has delusions of grandeur (think Everton and Newcastle, and latterly Southampton and West Ham). They bump their heads on the glass ceiling of 7th/8th/9th spots and have nowhere else to go except down. Their best players get poached (even unfashionable Stoke have lost Begovic, Nzonzi and Arnautovic when they wanted them to stay), they struggle to buy their first choice targets as replacements, so they buy "steady eddies" and gamble on a few "lost souls", and settle into mid-table mediocrity.
|
|
|
Jese.
Dec 6, 2017 15:30:31 GMT
Post by alster on Dec 6, 2017 15:30:31 GMT
I don't think Diouf is anything like perfect to play as a lone striker Dave. A lone striker has to have some kind of skill in link play. I like Diouf but that's where he falls down. I don't think Hughes has signed anyone he didn't want to and his interest in Berahino long preceded any links to Gabbiadini. Choupo was mentioned as an option a good few months before we signed him as was Joselu. If we were really hanging our hat on getting Dzeko that's pretty worrying. Almost TP-levels of chasing rainbows. I think he just doesn't know what kind of striker he wants. The fact we went for RVP, Bony and Berahino all in the same summer certainly lends weight to that idea. It wasn't a case of hanging his hat on dzeko...He was convinced he'd successfully convinced him to join us and was assisted in the process by the influence of his good friend asmir begovic. The powers that bd couldnt reach agreement with man city or the player himself and he went to Roma. Judging by your posts you seem to believe absolutely everything you read in the papers. RVP Interestingly I've just been listening to how klopp wanted to sign benteke whilst manager at Dortmund only to discard him immediately when he actually got to manage him at Liverpool. Seems it's not only Hughes who can sign or attempt to sign a player thinking one thing only to realise something totally different once the player gets through the door. Without going round in even more circles, I think we can all agree that we've spent big money badly with pretty much every 10m+ signing having serious question marks against them, including Shaqiri. No I think you can take Shaq and Allen out of that sweeping statement because whether you like them or not as players they're worth far more than we paid for them.
|
|
|
Post by alster on Dec 6, 2017 15:31:58 GMT
Agreed - over time most managers outside the top 6 become focused on the TP mantra of "let's get to 40 points". Survival generally means keeping their jobs, unless the club has delusions of grandeur (think Everton and Newcastle, and latterly Southampton and West Ham). They bump their heads on the glass ceiling of 7th/8th/9th spots and have nowhere else to go except down. Their best players get poached (even unfashionable Stoke have lost Begovic, Nzonzi and Arnautovic when they wanted them to stay), they struggle to buy their first choice targets as replacements, so they buy "steady eddies" and gamble on a few "lost souls", and settle into mid-table mediocrity. Probably true but horribly depressing.
|
|
|
Jese.
Dec 6, 2017 15:36:43 GMT
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 6, 2017 15:36:43 GMT
I don't think Diouf is anything like perfect to play as a lone striker Dave. A lone striker has to have some kind of skill in link play. I like Diouf but that's where he falls down. I don't think Hughes has signed anyone he didn't want to and his interest in Berahino long preceded any links to Gabbiadini. Choupo was mentioned as an option a good few months before we signed him as was Joselu. If we were really hanging our hat on getting Dzeko that's pretty worrying. Almost TP-levels of chasing rainbows. I think he just doesn't know what kind of striker he wants. The fact we went for RVP, Bony and Berahino all in the same summer certainly lends weight to that idea. It wasn't a case of hanging his hat on dzeko...He was convinced he'd successfully convinced him to join us and was assisted in the process by the influence of his good friend asmir begovic. The powers that bd couldnt reach agreement with man city or the player himself and he went to Roma. Judging by your posts you seem to believe absolutely everything you read in the papers. RVP Interestingly I've just been listening to how klopp wanted to sign benteke whilst manager at Dortmund only to discard him immediately when he actually got to manage him at Liverpool. Seems it's not only Hughes who can sign or attempt to sign a player thinking one thing only to realise something totally different once the player gets through the door. Without going round in even more circles, I think we can all agree that we've spent big money badly with pretty much every 10m+ signing having serious question marks against them, including Shaqiri. So you think the numerous reports linking us with a move for Robin Van Persie were just pulled randomly from someone's arse out of thin air? It's a very strange thing to make up out of the blue.
|
|
|
Post by jimmygscfc on Dec 6, 2017 15:50:49 GMT
It wasn't a case of hanging his hat on dzeko...He was convinced he'd successfully convinced him to join us and was assisted in the process by the influence of his good friend asmir begovic. The powers that bd couldnt reach agreement with man city or the player himself and he went to Roma. Judging by your posts you seem to believe absolutely everything you read in the papers. RVP Interestingly I've just been listening to how klopp wanted to sign benteke whilst manager at Dortmund only to discard him immediately when he actually got to manage him at Liverpool. Seems it's not only Hughes who can sign or attempt to sign a player thinking one thing only to realise something totally different once the player gets through the door. Without going round in even more circles, I think we can all agree that we've spent big money badly with pretty much every 10m+ signing having serious question marks against them, including Shaqiri. So you think the numerous reports linking us with a move for Robin Van Persie were just pulled randomly from someone's arse out of thin air? It's a very strange thing to make up out of the blue. I don't know about you, but I'd rather pull something out of thin air than someone's arse
|
|
|
Jese.
Dec 6, 2017 15:58:10 GMT
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 6, 2017 15:58:10 GMT
So you think the numerous reports linking us with a move for Robin Van Persie were just pulled randomly from someone's arse out of thin air? It's a very strange thing to make up out of the blue. I don't know about you, but I'd rather pull something out of thin air than someone's arse There's probably a worrying amount of overlap...
|
|
|
Jese.
Dec 6, 2017 16:05:18 GMT
Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 6, 2017 16:05:18 GMT
It wasn't a case of hanging his hat on dzeko...He was convinced he'd successfully convinced him to join us and was assisted in the process by the influence of his good friend asmir begovic. The powers that bd couldnt reach agreement with man city or the player himself and he went to Roma. Judging by your posts you seem to believe absolutely everything you read in the papers. RVP Interestingly I've just been listening to how klopp wanted to sign benteke whilst manager at Dortmund only to discard him immediately when he actually got to manage him at Liverpool. Seems it's not only Hughes who can sign or attempt to sign a player thinking one thing only to realise something totally different once the player gets through the door. Without going round in even more circles, I think we can all agree that we've spent big money badly with pretty much every 10m+ signing having serious question marks against them, including Shaqiri. So you think the numerous reports linking us with a move for Robin Van Persie were just pulled randomly from someone's arse out of thin air? It's a very strange thing to make up out of the blue. I think we get linked and mentioned in conjunction with lots of players that we have absolutely no interest in for sure. Isn't that all part of the transfer window "theatre"?
|
|
|
Jese.
Dec 6, 2017 16:06:31 GMT
Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 6, 2017 16:06:31 GMT
It wasn't a case of hanging his hat on dzeko...He was convinced he'd successfully convinced him to join us and was assisted in the process by the influence of his good friend asmir begovic. The powers that bd couldnt reach agreement with man city or the player himself and he went to Roma. Judging by your posts you seem to believe absolutely everything you read in the papers. RVP Interestingly I've just been listening to how klopp wanted to sign benteke whilst manager at Dortmund only to discard him immediately when he actually got to manage him at Liverpool. Seems it's not only Hughes who can sign or attempt to sign a player thinking one thing only to realise something totally different once the player gets through the door. Without going round in even more circles, I think we can all agree that we've spent big money badly with pretty much every 10m+ signing having serious question marks against them, including Shaqiri. No I think you can take Shaq and Allen out of that sweeping statement because whether you like them or not as players they're worth far more than we paid for them. They aren't worth more than we paid for them until such a time as we sell them.
|
|
|
Jese.
Dec 6, 2017 16:07:30 GMT
Post by crapslinger on Dec 6, 2017 16:07:30 GMT
So you think the numerous reports linking us with a move for Robin Van Persie were just pulled randomly from someone's arse out of thin air? It's a very strange thing to make up out of the blue. I don't know about you, but I'd rather pull something out of thin air than someone's arse Sticky Vicky pulls things out of her minge so maybe it has some truth, hughes tends to pull donkeys out of his hat rather than rabbits
|
|
|
Jese.
Dec 6, 2017 16:19:13 GMT
Post by alster on Dec 6, 2017 16:19:13 GMT
No I think you can take Shaq and Allen out of that sweeping statement because whether you like them or not as players they're worth far more than we paid for them. They aren't worth more than we paid for them until such a time as we sell them. Well we've already refused a massive profit on Joe and I'd be absolutely steaming if we even considered less than £25M for Shaq even then I'd prefer to keep him you can't sign special players for that sort of money anymore.
|
|
|
Jese.
Dec 6, 2017 16:21:27 GMT
via mobile
Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 6, 2017 16:21:27 GMT
They aren't worth more than we paid for them until such a time as we sell them. Well we've already refused a massive profit on Joe and I'd be absolutely steaming if we even considered less than £25M for Shaq even then I'd prefer to keep him you can't sign special players for that sort of money anymore. What if we keep turning down bids but they don't renew their contracts?
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 6, 2017 16:39:54 GMT
So you think the numerous reports linking us with a move for Robin Van Persie were just pulled randomly from someone's arse out of thin air? It's a very strange thing to make up out of the blue. I think we get linked and mentioned in conjunction with lots of players that we have absolutely no interest in for sure. Isn't that all part of the transfer window "theatre"? I think when something comes from a wide range of different sources, the manager refuses to deny it and sources close to the player release info you can probably assume there’s no smoke without fire.
|
|
|
Jese.
Dec 6, 2017 16:48:19 GMT
via mobile
Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 6, 2017 16:48:19 GMT
I think we get linked and mentioned in conjunction with lots of players that we have absolutely no interest in for sure. Isn't that all part of the transfer window "theatre"? I think when something comes from a wide range of different sources, the manager refuses to deny it and sources close to the player release info you can probably assume there’s no smoke without fire. Or different news sources regurgitate the same information over and over again.
|
|
|
Jese.
Dec 6, 2017 16:58:10 GMT
Post by jimmygscfc on Dec 6, 2017 16:58:10 GMT
Well we've already refused a massive profit on Joe and I'd be absolutely steaming if we even considered less than £25M for Shaq even then I'd prefer to keep him you can't sign special players for that sort of money anymore. What if we keep turning down bids but they don't renew their contracts? There's nothing more certain than Shaq going after the World Cup. I certainly don't expect him to go in January though. We wouldn't countenance it.
|
|
|
Jese.
Dec 6, 2017 17:11:55 GMT
via mobile
march4 likes this
Post by superheroantonius on Dec 6, 2017 17:11:55 GMT
It looks from the outside as if come the transfer window... Hughes has a look who is available...and takes a punt! A bit like me when on some rainy saturday with no footie, I bet a couple of quid on each race on the televised horse racing If he had signed for instance chris wood from leeds as cover for dioufy and crouchy, with the longer term intention that wood would push crouchy for his place I could see how he could sort off play the crouchy role or the diouf role But berahino and jesse are nothing like crouchy or diouf and are not going to cover for, or replace, either of them
|
|