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Post by Edward Tattsyrup on Oct 23, 2017 16:48:54 GMT
If results and performances don't improve he'll be gone before Christmas. That could be too late.if we are not going to make a decision, the board have to make it absolutely clear, the next two games are crucial, maybe not in results but certainly in the manner of performance.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 23, 2017 16:49:50 GMT
If results and performances don't improve he'll be gone before Christmas. That could be too late.if we are not going to make a decision, the board have to make it absolutely clear, the next two games are crucial, maybe not in results but certainly in the manner of performance. I just meant between now and Christmas. I didn't mean 24th December.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2017 16:51:11 GMT
We should give it the next four games, at most, to see if things improve. They are games against our mid-table peers. If we cannot compete, play well and secure at least 6 points in those, I would not want to see us limp into games against Liverpool and Spurs in our current form. Problem with that is expecting a new manager to fix things against Liverpool and Spurs is a big ask. A fresh start against opposition at our level is what a new manager needs so he can properly judge the squad he has and see what's not working. I honestly like Mark Hughes but the results we have had and the manner we have accepted defeat means I'm now shocked that his pride has not told him to go, he should not need sacking. Stevie Wonder can see what needs doing. Weather the board has the stomach for it and the funds that a new manager will undoubtedly need is another question. I suspect they are praying for a miracle over the next few games so they can AGAIN claim they know about football and were never worried. Well heads up guys you clearly don't know that people from Stoke-on-Trent don't like watching their team look stupid, weak and most importantly lacking any fight. Fight and pride are the only things we have in this City that the rich bastards can't take away from us. SORT IT.
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Post by tuum on Oct 23, 2017 16:51:24 GMT
Who on here would give him more than the next game? Me. I was happy with 10pts from 10 games. He can still achieve that. He probably has the next 5 games to show progress...even then, unless we are seriously adrift, I doubt Coates will press the button. It may be that Coates will take a 16th place finish and pull the trigger in the summer. I apologize for the use of the trite military metaphors.
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Post by tuum on Oct 23, 2017 16:55:02 GMT
I wonder if there is a bit of PLAYER POWER at work at Stoke at the moment. Very similar to the Arsene Wenger situation at Arsenal - the players want Arsene to stay because they get an easy time from the manager. The supporters want him gone but the board continue to keep him. Shawcross has come out already saying that the manager is not at fault. I get the feeling players such as Shaqiri, Jese & Choupo-Moting want Hughes to stay because he was integral to bringing them to the club. Maybe they are making their feelings clear towards the board that they want Hughes to remain and dont like the idea of an Allardyce showing up and making them run up and down hills to get fit. Of course it should be purely up to Peter Coates and the board but in modern football we know the players have a lot of power and influence. I can imagine if a new manager came in then some of the players might push to leave the club if they dont like the new guy. No problem with that. If players are not happy to accept a new manager then get rid as soon as practically possible. Strong managers can handle mardy players.
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Post by GoBoks on Oct 23, 2017 16:55:29 GMT
Coates had better get his finger out real soon - refusing to panic = dither dither dither......and it will cost us...... This is becoming a shit or bust season for us and we still have PLENTY of time to turn it around with the right appointment..... Isn’t every season that for any club other than the top 6?
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Oct 23, 2017 17:06:03 GMT
I kind of agree, but surely any mid table team missing their most creative player is going to be the poorer without him. As I've said earlier, I think there are mitigating circumstances, and it affects confidence and form. A couple of players fitter and it could change fairly quickly. We have looked decent in patches this season. Ramadan has been a disappointment too. I thought Marko leaving would really open the door for him this season. Another creative player, like Jese to a degree, struggling with form and fitness. I am confident that there is more to come from this squad under this manager. I wonder why Ramadan is struggling. Maybe the blows to his confidence of not being given an opportunity to fill Arnies boots despite his performances last season meriting he at least got the chance or getting hardly any minutes a sitting watching the reputations that have been bought in ahead of him getting bucket loads and being about as effective as a set of rubber spanners. Unfortunately Ramadan appears to have returned this season unfit. Whatever you say about the manager, he hasn't helped himself which is a great pity and possibly an opportunity missed for the player.
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Post by kidcrewbob on Oct 23, 2017 17:10:58 GMT
Coates had better get his finger out real soon - refusing to panic = dither dither dither......and it will cost us...... This is becoming a shit or bust season for us and we still have PLENTY of time to turn it around with the right appointment..... Isn’t every season that for any club other than the top 6? No - this is different - we've had slow starts before under Hughes - some worse than this and have been more disappointed than worried - this is now an 18 month + downward spiral with a decreasing number of periods of acceptable form plus some pretty abysmal transfer business to boot - Hughes has lost the plot and we need to replace him now - it will be too late come New Year - Coates needs to act and get past his daft no "foreign" managers thing......
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Post by Pugsley on Oct 23, 2017 17:12:40 GMT
And they shouldn't panic. They should make a calm and calculated decision on the manager based on all the available facts and the possible alternatives.
Let's not forget that this chairman once thought Chic Bates was the right man to lead us into a new stadium. Sleep tight.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Oct 23, 2017 17:14:34 GMT
I kind of agree, but surely any mid table team missing their most creative player is going to be the poorer without him. As I've said earlier, I think there are mitigating circumstances, and it affects confidence and form. A couple of players fitter and it could change fairly quickly. We have looked decent in patches this season. Ramadan has been a disappointment too. I thought Marko leaving would really open the door for him this season. Another creative player, like Jese to a degree, struggling with form and fitness. I am confident that there is more to come from this squad under this manager. Ramadan, for all his rawness and faults, still hasn't really had a chance in one of the creative positions behind the striker. Saturday was crying out for him and yet Hughes put Berahino on, and moved our most dangerous striker out to the wing while removing one of two creative options to supply a player. We really shouldn't, based on what we've spent and how long we've been here, be reliant on one man to be far and away our most creative option and look so moribund without him. If we don't take, say, 6-7 points from our next three games, we're going to be right in the mix aren't we? Well, as I've said, in my opinion, when everybody has been fit we've played some decent stuff and looked a lot more solid. It's not the easiest run of fixtures coming up, with 3 away matches in the next 4. I think 5 points would be a decent return, with a win and a couple of draws. And we will be in the mix - along with Palace, Bournemouth, Everton, West Ham, Swansea, Huddersfield, Leicester, West Brom, Brighton and Southampton. That's assuming that Burnley, Newcastle and Watford keep up their good recent form, or they'll also be in the mix with the rest of us.
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Post by GoBoks on Oct 23, 2017 17:19:12 GMT
Isn’t every season that for any club other than the top 6? No - this is different - we've had slow starts before under Hughes - some worse than this and have been more disappointed than worried - this is now an 18 month + downward spiral with a decreasing number of periods of acceptable form plus some pretty abysmal transfer business to boot - Hughes has lost the plot and we need to replace him now - it will be too late come New Year - Coates needs to act and get past his daft no "foreign" managers thing...... At the end of the day, every season is “ shit or bust” for us. Just because you are worried this season, doesn’t change that. Look at Benjamin, he has been worried since I can remember seeing him on this forum. Changing Managers is not important, doing the business is. And if Stoke do the business with or without Hughes, I’ll be 100 percent behind them. In fact, even if they don’t do the business.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Oct 23, 2017 17:19:30 GMT
Ramadan, for all his rawness and faults, still hasn't really had a chance in one of the creative positions behind the striker. Saturday was crying out for him and yet Hughes put Berahino on, and moved our most dangerous striker out to the wing while removing one of two creative options to supply a player. We really shouldn't, based on what we've spent and how long we've been here, be reliant on one man to be far and away our most creative option and look so moribund without him. If we don't take, say, 6-7 points from our next three games, we're going to be right in the mix aren't we? Well, as I've said, in my opinion, when everybody has been fit we've played some decent stuff and looked a lot more solid. It's not the easiest run of fixtures coming up, with 3 away matches in the next 4. I think 5 points would be a decent return, with a win and a couple of draws. And we will be in the mix - along with Palace, Bournemouth, Everton, West Ham, Swansea, Huddersfield, Leicester, West Brom, Brighton and Southampton. That's assuming that Burnley, Newcastle and Watford keep up their good recent form, or they'll also be in the mix with the rest of us. Bournemouth, Watford, Leicester, Brighton, Palace really is a kinder run of games than we started the season with. Surely, coming a cropper in those must set alarm bells off? It's not just the results either, but the manner of them. If we'd played well on Saturday, if we'd battered them and they'd just had two lucky shots, if we'd played as we did even earlier this season, I don't think there'd be this much soul-searching and wringing of hands. But we looked every bit the turgid mess we have for much of the last two years. Slow. Disorganised. Devoid of ideas. The tactics change, the formations change, the personnel changes, but the same problems remain and in some areas are getting worse. That's not a good sign and it's hard to trust him to put it right when he has been pretty much a disaster in the transfer market since the summer of 2015, both in terms of who he has brought in and the positions neglected.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Oct 23, 2017 17:26:09 GMT
Well let's hope we see a bit more fight, energy and a better performance against Watford. They're obviously full of confidence and a point would be great down there.
I think they will be stung by the last 2 results and rightly so.
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Post by Pugsley on Oct 23, 2017 17:28:03 GMT
Well let's hope we see a bit more fight, energy and a better performance against Watford. They're obviously full of confidence and a point would be great down there. I think they will be stung by the last 2 results and rightly so. Well they weren't stung by getting mullered 7 so I doubt it.
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Post by geoff321 on Oct 23, 2017 17:37:02 GMT
The idea that a 7-2 thrashing would inevitably cause the players to react with fight/determination in the next game is probably wishful thinking. Much more likely that confidence would be affected amongst the players and tension would also spread to the supporters, an unexpected win in the next few games could be a massive boost to confidence though.
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Post by Pugsley on Oct 23, 2017 17:38:12 GMT
The idea that a 7-2 thrashing would inevitably cause the players to react with fight/determination in the next game is probably wishful thinking. Much more likely that confidence would be affected amongst the players and tension would also spread to the supporters, an unexpected win in the next few games could be a massive boost to confidence though. Bollocks.
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Post by march4 on Oct 23, 2017 17:38:46 GMT
Procrastination by the club.
There is no better word for this dilly-dallying.
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Post by kidcrewbob on Oct 23, 2017 17:40:35 GMT
No - this is different - we've had slow starts before under Hughes - some worse than this and have been more disappointed than worried - this is now an 18 month + downward spiral with a decreasing number of periods of acceptable form plus some pretty abysmal transfer business to boot - Hughes has lost the plot and we need to replace him now - it will be too late come New Year - Coates needs to act and get past his daft no "foreign" managers thing...... At the end of the day, every season is “ shit or bust” for us. Just because you are worried this season, doesn’t change that. Look at Benjamin, he has been worried since I can remember seeing him on this forum. Changing Managers is not important, doing the business is. And if Stoke do the business with or without Hughes, I’ll be 100 percent behind them. In fact, even if they don’t do the business. Not sure I understand your point - if you're suggesting I'm not 100% behind the team each & every time they cross the white line then you are very much mistaken - I just want a win and am not overly fussed whether it's ugly sometimes or we get lucky - and like you I don't care who's in charge as long as we win. Unfortunately we are not winning often enough and are now being turned over regularly by what we would have previously regarded as lesser clubs - plus embarrassing cup exits......and woeful transfer activity..... He's had the benefit of the doubt (from me at any rate) for nigh on 18 months and this is now at an end - he needs to go - we'd do no worse with a stand-in coach or caretaker - it's just slipped beyond his control and I think he's had more than a fair chance - yes it's another "slow start" on the face of it and had it not been on the back of an appalling decline I'd probably be less concerned - but it is and I am......
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Post by geoff321 on Oct 23, 2017 17:41:04 GMT
The idea that a 7-2 thrashing would inevitably cause the players to react with fight/determination in the next game is probably wishful thinking. Much more likely that confidence would be affected amongst the players and tension would also spread to the supporters, an unexpected win in the next few games could be a massive boost to confidence though. Bollocks. The one thing about you pugs is you always give a lot of thought and care to your answers!
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Post by Pugsley on Oct 23, 2017 17:46:28 GMT
The one thing about you pugs is you always give a lot of thought and care to your answers! Not a lot needed to reply to that claptrap Geoff. I was pro Hughes but that pitiful first half performance from the first whistle has turned me against him. I really expected the team to be up and at it after such a heavy defeat. The fact they were not reflects abysmally on the manager and the players he selected. He's got it too easy, not under enough pressure from the owner. His interviews last week proved it.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Oct 23, 2017 17:50:25 GMT
Procrastination by the club. There is no better word for this dilly-dallying. I think vacillation is pretty close.
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Post by geoff321 on Oct 23, 2017 17:54:20 GMT
The one thing about you pugs is you always give a lot of thought and care to your answers! Not a lot needed to reply to that claptrap Geoff. I was pro Hughes but that pitiful first half performance from the first whistle has turned me against him. I really expected the team to be up and at it after such a heavy defeat. The fact they were not reflects abysmally on the manager and the players he selected. He's got it too easy, not under enough pressure from the owner. His interviews last week proved it. Who would you replace Hughes with, you suggested Southgate for England, that's been a roaring success hasn't it.
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Post by Pugsley on Oct 23, 2017 17:58:48 GMT
Not a lot needed to reply to that claptrap Geoff. I was pro Hughes but that pitiful first half performance from the first whistle has turned me against him. I really expected the team to be up and at it after such a heavy defeat. The fact they were not reflects abysmally on the manager and the players he selected. He's got it too easy, not under enough pressure from the owner. His interviews last week proved it. Who would you replace Hughes with, you suggested Southgate for England, that's been a roaring success hasn't it. No idea, the quality of candidates that Coates would go for is very low. Allardyce I suppose but I don't like him. We'll end up with Moyes, i'm convinced of it, IF Coates acts, which is doubtful.
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Post by bridgnorthstokie on Oct 23, 2017 18:11:13 GMT
For 18 months there has been a slow decline in fitness, attitude, tactics, desire, my thought is either the coaches no longer have the about to coach this set of players or this set of players no longer support this manager, My surprise in the summer was when Hughes somehow kept his job the coaching staff weren't replaced with new faces the same old faces are doing the same old things and it still isn't working time for change either the whole management team or if coates still believes in Hughes then a new coaching team is needed
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Post by fishlovesoatcakes on Oct 23, 2017 18:22:56 GMT
He has demonstrated that he is capable of turning things around. We had slipped into the bottom 3 before a late kick off against Manchester United, won the game and finished the season in 9th. We've had a number of tough starts and finished the season well. We're probably enjoying the best 4 or 5 season spell in 154 years. I too am a long standing supporter. But we've beaten Arsenal and put 2 past Manchester United in the last month to earn a draw with the team second in the league. I've got to be honest - I've known it worse. If you've reached the point where enough is enough now, heaven knows how you felt 20 years ago. Spot on. Some on here have no idea what it's like to be shit in the lower leagues.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Oct 23, 2017 18:34:24 GMT
He has demonstrated that he is capable of turning things around. We had slipped into the bottom 3 before a late kick off against Manchester United, won the game and finished the season in 9th. We've had a number of tough starts and finished the season well. We're probably enjoying the best 4 or 5 season spell in 154 years. I too am a long standing supporter. But we've beaten Arsenal and put 2 past Manchester United in the last month to earn a draw with the team second in the league. I've got to be honest - I've known it worse. If you've reached the point where enough is enough now, heaven knows how you felt 20 years ago. Spot on. Some on here have no idea what it's like to be shit in the lower leagues. I'm Afraid that's flawed , I was at Wigan , reading , oxford , and Swindon for some of our lowest moments , and have never been as frustrated as now as golden opportunities are squandered summer after summer . imagine this squad in the championship without Shaq , Butland Allen ,Zouma and Diouf all of whom would get places elsewhere , we are staring very complacently down a long exile , last summer being the modern era equivalent of the roof blowing off the butler street stand this time totally self inflicted .
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2017 18:46:25 GMT
He has demonstrated that he is capable of turning things around. We had slipped into the bottom 3 before a late kick off against Manchester United, won the game and finished the season in 9th. We've had a number of tough starts and finished the season well. We're probably enjoying the best 4 or 5 season spell in 154 years. I too am a long standing supporter. But we've beaten Arsenal and put 2 past Manchester United in the last month to earn a draw with the team second in the league. I've got to be honest - I've known it worse. If you've reached the point where enough is enough now, heaven knows how you felt 20 years ago. Spot on. Some on here have no idea what it's like to be shit in the lower leagues. I'm very well aware of what life in the lower leagues was like and have no desire to ever revisit those grounds or experiences if at all possible. Now that we are an established Prem team it is crucial that we do all we can to safeguard our status and IMO it just doesn't seem that we are showing any signs of turning things around, and certainly not over the past 20 months period. In fact it seems that the longer time goes on the worse we are becoming. Hughes's team selections, tactics, formations, substitutions have mostly all been baffling, and his transfer signings (or lack of) have led to an unbalanced team/squad with certain positions glaringly lacking the required signings. In many cases we just don't seem to have any basic plan or structure and no fight in the team. If he is allowed to continue, as currently seems likely judging by the apparent lack of action by the Board, and if he does manage to improve results and performances then I will be delighted, but I have no confidence in Hughes whatsoever to be able to dig us out of this situation. I guess it's all about personal opinions isn't it ?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 23, 2017 18:47:50 GMT
He has demonstrated that he is capable of turning things around. We had slipped into the bottom 3 before a late kick off against Manchester United, won the game and finished the season in 9th. We've had a number of tough starts and finished the season well. We're probably enjoying the best 4 or 5 season spell in 154 years. I too am a long standing supporter. But we've beaten Arsenal and put 2 past Manchester United in the last month to earn a draw with the team second in the league. I've got to be honest - I've known it worse. If you've reached the point where enough is enough now, heaven knows how you felt 20 years ago. Spot on. Some on here have no idea what it's like to be shit in the lower leagues. Massively irrelevant.
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Post by liathroid on Oct 23, 2017 18:59:23 GMT
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Post by maninasuitcase on Oct 23, 2017 19:03:21 GMT
Who on here would give him more than the next game? Not me He's had 10 games. It's the last game in October (see other thread) I've lost interest in him, the tactics, the team and his football in general.
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