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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 17, 2023 8:27:33 GMT
Could Cameron stand at the next election as Tory leader? Is he viewed by the British public as a safe pair of hands? I've no idea. I guess comparitive to what we've got he'd appear competent. Cameron is one of the few Tory MP's I admire. When you see all the shit that has followed him it makes you wonder how he managed to have a reasonably competent government in place for all those years. What's followed him has been beyond embarrassing and although I don't agree with the Tories much I never felt embarrassed about our politics under Cameron. Getting him in the cabinet is about the only competent thing I think I have seen from a Tory government since he left. I wouldn't say I admire him, after all he and Osborne were the architects of the Tory austerity that laid the foundations for the state of our failing public services we currently suffer. He's also responsible for the shit the country's in as a result of Brexit. Not great legacies, nor worthy of admiration. But he gives off an air of old school Tory respectability I suppose, despite his Greensill connections showing him to be as bent as a nine bob note, which respectability is in stark contrast to the clowns who've been in charge since he resigned...tum te tumming as he went without a care in the world. Not much too admire in that record really.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Nov 17, 2023 8:45:25 GMT
Cruel and dangerous.
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Post by lawrieleslie on Nov 17, 2023 8:55:03 GMT
Could Cameron stand at the next election as Tory leader? Is he viewed by the British public as a safe pair of hands? I've no idea. I guess comparitive to what we've got he'd appear competent. Cameron is one of the few Tory MP's I admire. When you see all the shit that has followed him it makes you wonder how he managed to have a reasonably competent government in place for all those years. What's followed him has been beyond embarrassing and although I don't agree with the Tories much I never felt embarrassed about our politics under Cameron. Getting him in the cabinet is about the only competent thing I think I have seen from a Tory government since he left. Agree to a certain extent. But his big error was allowing the EU Referendum. Whilst I voted leave I still think it was a mistake to call the referendum in the first place thinking people would vote remain when the writing was on the wall from the 2010 GE when almost 1m voted for UKIP & by the 2015 GE that had swelled to almost 4m placing them 3rd behind Tories & labour in votes cast. Although only winning 1 seat in 2015 it was an indication of the mood of the country which was not read by the government imo. Not wishing to raise the pros & cons argument of Brexit, the reason why I say it was a mistake to call a referendum is because, imo & in hindsight, the division in the UK it has caused may eventually outweigh the benefits of Brexit.
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Post by adri2008 on Nov 17, 2023 9:02:16 GMT
Could Cameron stand at the next election as Tory leader? Is he viewed by the British public as a safe pair of hands? I've no idea. I guess comparitive to what we've got he'd appear competent. Cameron is one of the few Tory MP's I admire. When you see all the shit that has followed him it makes you wonder how he managed to have a reasonably competent government in place for all those years. What's followed him has been beyond embarrassing and although I don't agree with the Tories much I never felt embarrassed about our politics under Cameron. Getting him in the cabinet is about the only competent thing I think I have seen from a Tory government since he left. I always felt he did a reasonable job in the tricky circumstances of 2010 - any government coming into power was going to have to make difficult decisions. Nick Clegg was very harshly treated too during what was a pretty stable and professional government, though god knows why he didn't just draw a red line at the tuition fees when it was apparently offered to him.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Nov 17, 2023 9:20:52 GMT
Cameron is one of the few Tory MP's I admire. When you see all the shit that has followed him it makes you wonder how he managed to have a reasonably competent government in place for all those years. What's followed him has been beyond embarrassing and although I don't agree with the Tories much I never felt embarrassed about our politics under Cameron. Getting him in the cabinet is about the only competent thing I think I have seen from a Tory government since he left. I always felt he did a reasonable job in the tricky circumstances of 2010 - any government coming into power was going to have to make difficult decisions. Nick Clegg was very harshly treated too during what was a pretty stable and professional government, though god knows why he didn't just draw a red line at the tuition fees when it was apparently offered to him. Only my opinion but I fail to see any good in what Cameron and Osborne did.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 17, 2023 9:27:17 GMT
I always felt he did a reasonable job in the tricky circumstances of 2010 - any government coming into power was going to have to make difficult decisions. Nick Clegg was very harshly treated too during what was a pretty stable and professional government, though god knows why he didn't just draw a red line at the tuition fees when it was apparently offered to him. Only my opinion but I fail to see any good in what Cameron and Osborne did. I am clutching at straws, but they were better than what has followed!
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Post by adri2008 on Nov 17, 2023 9:35:13 GMT
I always felt he did a reasonable job in the tricky circumstances of 2010 - any government coming into power was going to have to make difficult decisions. Nick Clegg was very harshly treated too during what was a pretty stable and professional government, though god knows why he didn't just draw a red line at the tuition fees when it was apparently offered to him. Only my opinion but I fail to see any good in what Cameron and Osborne did. Stabilised the country's finances and ran a professional government - obviously a country's finances are very different to an individual persons but it still has to convince markets it can pay its way if it wants to borrow money. You can argue they went too far of course but for all of the bluster, the cuts ended up at a similar pace to what Alistair Darling was proposing in the run up to the election in 2010. Perhaps it's just me comparing him to successor PMs/governments. A bit like when looking back to John Major.
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Post by gawa on Nov 17, 2023 9:39:28 GMT
When is this government going to focus on the majority?
Why just focus on benefits fraud which is miniscule but not focus on tax evasion, covid fraud and dodgy tory contracts which far eclipse it.
Why just focus on the small percentage of asylum seekers. Why no focus on the hundreds of thousands of immigrants they let through the door with their policies.
Probably because they don't give a shit about us. Always targeting the vulnerable, never targeting those taking advantage.
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Post by wannabee on Nov 17, 2023 9:43:10 GMT
Your original point was "And Rwanda is nothing to do with foreign policy" which was why I even entered the discussion You now acknowledge it does influence Foreign Policy but you caveat that it was unimportant which is subjective and which I disagree with you. You have now introduced a different element, Brexit, as a reason why UK may be considered Bat Shit crazy by other Countries. Whilst I agree with you on that point, Brexit was a decision by UK to self harm. Disregarding International Treaties when inconvenient can cause harm to other Countries so it's far more significant on International Relationships. Foreign policy didn’t affect the Rwanda policy intentionally. It was entirely about immigration and culture wars (it has backfired). Or are you saying you think the foreign office came up with a policy objective to hurt our standing in the world, and they then devised the Rwanda policy!? I know it cane from Suella and the Home Office (from people who work there). Foreign policy didn’t affect the SNP’s amendment to the King’s Speech, it was about humiliating Starmer (it worked well). The people you know in the Home Office must be pretty dense if they are not aware that the Rwanda Policy was introduced by Priti Patel/Boris and merely carried on enthusiastically by Suella/Rishi You're creating a false narrative, no one is suggesting, least of all me, that the Rwanda Policy was concocted by the Foreign Office but decisions of this nature are taken by a collective Cabinet so they would have assessed the impact. I'm not crediting this Government with any specific intelligence they just made a calculated decision that a Domestic Policy which would appeal to some voters was in their Electoral Interest over any negative International consequences of appearing untrustworthy and incompetent. The legal advice they received must have highlighted the strong possibility that the Rwanda Policy would be found to be illegal in the Courts, they were briefing on what they would do alternatively in the days leading up to the Judgement You keep reintroducing the SNP Amendment which I've never mentioned as it's entirely irrelevant and has nothing to do with your original post I replied to.
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Post by thisisouryear on Nov 17, 2023 9:51:32 GMT
Cameron is one of the few Tory MP's I admire. When you see all the shit that has followed him it makes you wonder how he managed to have a reasonably competent government in place for all those years. What's followed him has been beyond embarrassing and although I don't agree with the Tories much I never felt embarrassed about our politics under Cameron. Getting him in the cabinet is about the only competent thing I think I have seen from a Tory government since he left. I wouldn't say I admire him, after all he and Osborne were the architects of the Tory austerity that laid the foundations for the state of our failing public services we currently suffer. He's also responsible for the shit the country's in as a result of Brexit. Not great legacies, nor worthy of admiration. But he gives off an air of old school Tory respectability I suppose, despite his Greensill connections showing him to be as bent as a nine bob note, which respectability is in stark contrast to the clowns who've been in charge since he resigned...tum te tumming as he went without a care in the world. Not much to admire in that record really. I'm more in admiration on how he kept a lid on all the sleeze and corruption in a party full of morons as opposed to his policies. Since he left it's felt like one big wrecking ball running the country with someone getting charged for something or involved in some scandal every other week. I've said it before he's a professional twat.
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Post by Veritas on Nov 17, 2023 10:02:53 GMT
I wouldn't say I admire him, after all he and Osborne were the architects of the Tory austerity that laid the foundations for the state of our failing public services we currently suffer. He's also responsible for the shit the country's in as a result of Brexit. Not great legacies, nor worthy of admiration. But he gives off an air of old school Tory respectability I suppose, despite his Greensill connections showing him to be as bent as a nine bob note, which respectability is in stark contrast to the clowns who've been in charge since he resigned...tum te tumming as he went without a care in the world. Not much to admire in that record really. I'm more in admiration on how he kept a lid on all the sleeze and corruption in a party full of morons as opposed to his policies. Since he left it's felt like one big wrecking ball running the country with someone getting charged for something or involved in some scandal every other week. I've said it before he's a professional twat. I agree he acts like an grown up compared to the chaos that came after him but and it is a very big BUT he and his mate very calmly decimated the social structure of this country through austerity and clearly don't believe they did anything wrong.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 17, 2023 10:37:54 GMT
Foreign policy didn’t affect the Rwanda policy intentionally. It was entirely about immigration and culture wars (it has backfired). Or are you saying you think the foreign office came up with a policy objective to hurt our standing in the world, and they then devised the Rwanda policy!? I know it cane from Suella and the Home Office (from people who work there). Foreign policy didn’t affect the SNP’s amendment to the King’s Speech, it was about humiliating Starmer (it worked well). The people you know in the Home Office must be pretty dense if they are not aware that the Rwanda Policy was introduced by Priti Patel/Boris and merely carried on enthusiastically by Suella/Rishi You're creating a false narrative, no one is suggesting, least of all me, that the Rwanda Policy was concocted by the Foreign Office but decisions of this nature are taken by a collective Cabinet so they would have assessed the impact. I'm not crediting this Government with any specific intelligence they just made a calculated decision that a Domestic Policy which would appeal to some voters was in their Electoral Interest over any negative International consequences of appearing untrustworthy and incompetent. The legal advice they received must have highlighted the strong possibility that the Rwanda Policy would be found to be illegal in the Courts, they were briefing on what they would do alternatively in the days leading up to the Judgement You keep reintroducing the SNP Amendment which I've never mentioned as it's entirely irrelevant and has nothing to do with your original post I replied to. I think we agree. Rwanda policy is primarily about immigration, cooked up by the Home Office to stop the boats, but obviously has some unintentional negative implications on the perception of our nation by the wider world. The SNP amendment was part of the original discussion on the point I was making and my apologies if I have conflated some of your replies on this topic with others who have replied on it. I stand by the point that both are about playing politics before anything else.
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Post by gawa on Nov 17, 2023 11:01:56 GMT
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Post by essexstokey on Nov 17, 2023 11:09:19 GMT
If you read the governments welfare reform it c An be a significant attack on the disabled if you take all these proposals together it is cruel and unjust
1 most disabled are going to be forced to work or lose benefit is Bad enough but it gets worse Under BMW new proposals all would be expected to take work placements on benefits If yhey don't or can't they will lose free medication All measures put together are cruel and inhumane Get these parasites out now
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Post by wannabee on Nov 17, 2023 11:50:21 GMT
The people you know in the Home Office must be pretty dense if they are not aware that the Rwanda Policy was introduced by Priti Patel/Boris and merely carried on enthusiastically by Suella/Rishi You're creating a false narrative, no one is suggesting, least of all me, that the Rwanda Policy was concocted by the Foreign Office but decisions of this nature are taken by a collective Cabinet so they would have assessed the impact. I'm not crediting this Government with any specific intelligence they just made a calculated decision that a Domestic Policy which would appeal to some voters was in their Electoral Interest over any negative International consequences of appearing untrustworthy and incompetent. The legal advice they received must have highlighted the strong possibility that the Rwanda Policy would be found to be illegal in the Courts, they were briefing on what they would do alternatively in the days leading up to the Judgement You keep reintroducing the SNP Amendment which I've never mentioned as it's entirely irrelevant and has nothing to do with your original post I replied to. I think we agree. Rwanda policy is primarily about immigration, cooked up by the Home Office to stop the boats, but obviously has some unintentional negative implications on the perception of our nation by the wider world. The SNP amendment was part of the original discussion on the point I was making and my apologies if I have conflated some of your replies on this topic with others who have replied on it. I stand by the point that both are about playing politics before anything else. I don't and never disagreed with any of that, but there are negative consequences
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Post by dutchstokie on Nov 17, 2023 12:26:21 GMT
If you read the governments welfare reform it c An be a significant attack on the disabled if you take all these proposals together it is cruel and unjust 1 most disabled are going to be forced to work or lose benefit is Bad enough but it gets worse Under BMW new proposals all would be expected to take work placements on benefits If yhey don't or can't they will lose free medication All measures put together are cruel and inhumane Get these parasites out now What are you ranting at now...?
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Post by maxplonk on Nov 17, 2023 12:36:08 GMT
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Post by essexstokey on Nov 17, 2023 12:36:43 GMT
If you read the governments welfare reform it c An be a significant attack on the disabled if you take all these proposals together it is cruel and unjust 1 most disabled are going to be forced to work or lose benefit is Bad enough but it gets worse Under BMW new proposals all would be expected to take work placements on benefits If yhey don't or can't they will lose free medication All measures put together are cruel and inhumane Get these parasites out now What are you ranting at now...? If you read this and the BBC website on benefit reforms by the government you would understand it's a major attack on disability with a blackmail of you dont do it well take your free medication away and also sanction you Evel cruel torries Attack the vulnerable so the rich can have tax cuts
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Post by gawa on Nov 17, 2023 12:58:43 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2023 13:05:08 GMT
I personally agree with the idea of making people take work experience if they want to receive benefits (unless they have a medical condition that physically prevents it). I don’t agree with cutting out GP’s and letting some random staffer decide the severity of medical conditions. I imagine that will get challenged in court. Then again, the Secretary for Health has never worked in healthcare, so perhaps medical education is just a scam 😒
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Post by salopstick on Nov 17, 2023 14:01:51 GMT
Cameron is one of the few Tory MP's I admire. When you see all the shit that has followed him it makes you wonder how he managed to have a reasonably competent government in place for all those years. What's followed him has been beyond embarrassing and although I don't agree with the Tories much I never felt embarrassed about our politics under Cameron. Getting him in the cabinet is about the only competent thing I think I have seen from a Tory government since he left. Agree to a certain extent. But his big error was allowing the EU Referendum. Whilst I voted leave I still think it was a mistake to call the referendum in the first place thinking people would vote remain when the writing was on the wall from the 2010 GE when almost 1m voted for UKIP & by the 2015 GE that had swelled to almost 4m placing them 3rd behind Tories & labour in votes cast. Although only winning 1 seat in 2015 it was an indication of the mood of the country which was not read by the government imo. Not wishing to raise the pros & cons argument of Brexit, the reason why I say it was a mistake to call a referendum is because, imo & in hindsight, the division in the UK it has caused may eventually outweigh the benefits of Brexit. It was a manifesto pledge that helped win the election. Its not really his fault for calling it or the result i always thought he was shithouse though for fucking off just because he lost it rather than work it
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Post by dutchstokie on Nov 17, 2023 14:43:45 GMT
What are you ranting at now...? If you read this and the BBC website on benefit reforms by the government you would understand it's a major attack on disability with a blackmail of you dont do it well take your free medication away and also sanction you Evel cruel torries Attack the vulnerable so the rich can have tax cuts I would re-read all this if I were you......and calm down a bit. Sick notes will be approved by a "beneifts system" ...whats all that about then? A load of bollocks. GP's could be cut out of the process...... then again they could be NOT cut out.......so bollocks basically. AND its on twitter....and you believe all that shyte on there......? I know youre anti Tory but busting a blood vessel and the venom your posts protray really arent good for you. And for the record I dont trust any of them either but I dont get all hot under the collar about it....
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 17, 2023 14:49:38 GMT
Only my opinion but I fail to see any good in what Cameron and Osborne did. I am clutching at straws, but they were better than what has followed! Very much damned by faint praise, that is, but yes, that's about as much as you can say for them. There was less of the outright venality, grasping ambition and sex-pest sleaze associated with the 2010-15 administration. Partly that's down to the characters involved, partly that there was a smattering of LDs in government too.
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Post by lawrieleslie on Nov 17, 2023 15:37:14 GMT
Agree to a certain extent. But his big error was allowing the EU Referendum. Whilst I voted leave I still think it was a mistake to call the referendum in the first place thinking people would vote remain when the writing was on the wall from the 2010 GE when almost 1m voted for UKIP & by the 2015 GE that had swelled to almost 4m placing them 3rd behind Tories & labour in votes cast. Although only winning 1 seat in 2015 it was an indication of the mood of the country which was not read by the government imo. Not wishing to raise the pros & cons argument of Brexit, the reason why I say it was a mistake to call a referendum is because, imo & in hindsight, the division in the UK it has caused may eventually outweigh the benefits of Brexit. It was a manifesto pledge that helped win the election. Its not really his fault for calling it or the result i always thought he was shithouse though for fucking off just because he lost it rather than work it He couldn’t stay though could he? He was firmly in the Remain camp and spent months hiking around the EU trying to get a better deal for UK membership that fell on mostly deaf ears.
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Post by gawa on Nov 17, 2023 20:57:59 GMT
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Post by essexstokey on Nov 17, 2023 22:43:47 GMT
240 million of money saved on hs2 is going to fix potholes on London
Conservative owner of jcb is selling pot hole machines to govt
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Post by wannabee on Nov 17, 2023 22:49:39 GMT
It was a manifesto pledge that helped win the election. Its not really his fault for calling it or the result i always thought he was shithouse though for fucking off just because he lost it rather than work it He couldn’t stay though could he? He was firmly in the Remain camp and spent months hiking around the EU trying to get a better deal for UK membership that fell on mostly deaf ears. I suppose it comes down to your perspective if we have a better deal now
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 18, 2023 0:03:32 GMT
It was a manifesto pledge that helped win the election. Its not really his fault for calling it or the result i always thought he was shithouse though for fucking off just because he lost it rather than work it He couldn’t stay though could he? He was firmly in the Remain camp and spent months hiking around the EU trying to get a better deal for UK membership that fell on mostly deaf ears. Cameron spent a lot of years pointing out the defects of the EU as he saw them: www.gov.uk/government/speeches/prime-ministers-speech-on-europeThe 4 main things he is critical of the EU in 2013/2015 have all got worse since then. The one major trade agreement of the 4 referred to (America, China, Japan and ASEAN) achieved by the EU (before the UK left) was with Japan, which resulted in Honda shutting their plant at Swindon. It would be interesting to hear Cameron's views on the EU today in the light of what he said in 2015 and what has happened since in the EU. Regarding Cameron's return to the fold; it was Churchill who said (when a Liberal) that "The Conservative Party is not a party but a conspiracy".
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Post by wannabee on Nov 18, 2023 1:49:10 GMT
He couldn’t stay though could he? He was firmly in the Remain camp and spent months hiking around the EU trying to get a better deal for UK membership that fell on mostly deaf ears. Cameron spent a lot of years pointing out the defects of the EU as he saw them: www.gov.uk/government/speeches/prime-ministers-speech-on-europeThe 4 main things he is critical of the EU in 2013/2015 have all got worse since then. The one major trade agreement of the 4 referred to (America, China, Japan and ASEAN) achieved by the EU (before the UK left) was with Japan, which resulted in Honda shutting their plant at Swindon. It would be interesting to hear Cameron's views on the EU today in the light of what he said in 2015 and what has happened since in the EU. Regarding Cameron's return to the fold; it was Churchill who said (when a Liberal) that "The Conservative Party is not a party but a conspiracy".It's unusual of you Mr Coke to disparage Brexit It's not unusual of you to distort facts Swindon was the only European Manufacturing Factory for Honda's entry into the 450M EU Mainland Market for prospective Customers, the smaller UK Market was hardly a consideration UK decided in June 2016 to exit the EU on Trade Terms yet to be decided, if any, for Goods/Cars to enter EU from UK In July 2018 EU and Japan entered into the largest Bi-Lateral Trade Deal ever, encompassing 1/3 of the World's Trade. In February 2019 Honda announced it was closing Honda Swindon Of course pious words about Electrification etc were used but the reality was that Honda no longer needed to Manufacture in Swindon to supply the EU Market as a result of the previous years Trade Deal with EU which UK could no longer supply as a result of Brexit The lights were finally switched off in Swindon in July 2021 It's such a shame that the first major Cut and Paste Rollover Trade Deal between UK and Japan which promised a whopping 0.07% increase to GDP by 2035 has turned out so disappointing such that a Slump in Trade between UK and Japan has occurred since it was signed.... unless you know better? Always remember the Old Adage " It is better to be inside the Tent Pissing out, than outside the Tent Pissing in"
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Post by iancransonsknees on Nov 18, 2023 6:07:24 GMT
Cameron spent a lot of years pointing out the defects of the EU as he saw them: www.gov.uk/government/speeches/prime-ministers-speech-on-europeThe 4 main things he is critical of the EU in 2013/2015 have all got worse since then. The one major trade agreement of the 4 referred to (America, China, Japan and ASEAN) achieved by the EU (before the UK left) was with Japan, which resulted in Honda shutting their plant at Swindon. It would be interesting to hear Cameron's views on the EU today in the light of what he said in 2015 and what has happened since in the EU. Regarding Cameron's return to the fold; it was Churchill who said (when a Liberal) that "The Conservative Party is not a party but a conspiracy".It's unusual of you Mr Coke to disparage Brexit It's not unusual of you to distort facts Swindon was the only European Manufacturing Factory for Honda's entry into the 450M EU Mainland Market for prospective Customers, the smaller UK Market was hardly a consideration UK decided in June 2016 to exit the EU on Trade Terms yet to be decided, if any, for Goods/Cars to enter EU from UK In July 2018 EU and Japan entered into the largest Bi-Lateral Trade Deal ever, encompassing 1/3 of the World's Trade. In February 2019 Honda announced it was closing Honda Swindon Of course pious words about Electrification etc were used but the reality was that Honda no longer needed to Manufacture in Swindon to supply the EU Market as a result of the previous years Trade Deal with EU which UK could no longer supply as a result of Brexit The lights were finally switched off in Swindon in July 2021 It's such a shame that the first major Cut and Paste Rollover Trade Deal between UK and Japan which promised a whopping 0.07% increase to GDP by 2035 has turned out so disappointing such that a Slump in Trade between UK and Japan has occurred since it was signed.... unless you know better? Always remember the Old Adage " It is better to be inside the Tent Pissing out, than outside the Tent Pissing in" It's not as simple as that, Honda's market share across Europe has been failing for an awfully long time, to the point it cannot justify manufacturing any vehicles on the continent either. They've been overtaken and out thought by the Korean's and their Japanese competitors who partnered up. www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/features/swindon-factory-closure-how-honda-got-europe-so-wrongIt's a long read but pretty comprehensive.
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