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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 22, 2024 8:12:10 GMT
Does “doing well” have to mean being a millionaire? Is there no middle ground? Could it actually not just be someone who is, for example, a small business owner that isn’t entrenched in the gluttony of the 1%? If Starmer was looking to make policies that his voting base wanted, it would be less of a big deal. However, he isn’t. He’s just another Tory. As has been noted Starmer is definitely from Working Class background and was the first in his Family to attend University, I think you can relate to that if I'm not wrong. He qualified and worked as a Barrister for almost 30 years which carries a hefty salary and 6 of those as Head of CPS which by convention on retirement is given an automatic Knighthood. His wife working as a NHS Consultant would also have increased the Family Coffers Continuing his Public Service he left the CPS to seek Election as an MP at a much reduced salary in 2014 Included in the estimate of his Wealth is he lives in a terraced house in Islington worth about £1M near neighbour to Corbyn who lives in a similar property I really don't understand the mystery, Starmer is from a working class family and through his own efforts, not through patronage or from knowing the right people has had a very successful career. Should he becomes PM I hope he continues his hard work on behalf of the Country I would go as far as to say Starmer’s background and crucially his work experience makes him an ideal candidate for PM.
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Post by elystokie on Apr 22, 2024 9:16:30 GMT
As has been noted Starmer is definitely from Working Class background and was the first in his Family to attend University, I think you can relate to that if I'm not wrong. He qualified and worked as a Barrister for almost 30 years which carries a hefty salary and 6 of those as Head of CPS which by convention on retirement is given an automatic Knighthood. His wife working as a NHS Consultant would also have increased the Family Coffers Continuing his Public Service he left the CPS to seek Election as an MP at a much reduced salary in 2014 Included in the estimate of his Wealth is he lives in a terraced house in Islington worth about £1M near neighbour to Corbyn who lives in a similar property I really don't understand the mystery, Starmer is from a working class family and through his own efforts, not through patronage or from knowing the right people has had a very successful career. Should he becomes PM I hope he continues his hard work on behalf of the Country I would go as far as to say Starmer’s background and crucially his work experience makes him an ideal candidate for PM. It does but doesn't mean he's going to be any good. Personally I was prepared to vote labour just to get rid of the current disastrous lot but his latest utterings about drugs and prohibition where he's just following the misguided, dog whistle tory rhetoric has me seriously considering spoiling my vote if there's no lib dem or green candidate in my area.
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 22, 2024 9:42:01 GMT
I would go as far as to say Starmer’s background and crucially his work experience makes him an ideal candidate for PM. It does but doesn't mean he's going to be any good. Personally I was prepared to vote labour just to get rid of the current disastrous lot but his latest utterings about drugs and prohibition where he's just following the misguided, dog whistle tory rhetoric has me seriously considering spoiling my vote if there's no lib dem or green candidate in my area. He may be terrible. Remember with first past the post the important thing isn’t necessarily about who you want to win, it is about voting to stop who you don’t want. Else the vote may be a waste.
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Post by adri2008 on Apr 22, 2024 9:53:32 GMT
Starmer's a technocrat - he'll run the government in a professional manner but I don't think he has any real vision of what he wants to achieve. The country really needs someone to grasp the nettle of how we pay for quality public services whilst supporting an aging population - unpopular decisions are necessary but nobody dares to make them. I suspect 5 years of managed decline is ahead - managed better than now but decline all the same.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Apr 22, 2024 9:56:39 GMT
It does but doesn't mean he's going to be any good. Personally I was prepared to vote labour just to get rid of the current disastrous lot but his latest utterings about drugs and prohibition where he's just following the misguided, dog whistle tory rhetoric has me seriously considering spoiling my vote if there's no lib dem or green candidate in my area. He may be terrible. Remember with first past the post the important thing isn’t necessarily about who you want to win, it is about voting to stop who you don’t want. Else the vote may be a waste. I will be voting Labour purely to get rid of Gullis in Stoke North. Doesn't mean I endorse Starmer, David Williams the Labour candidate has all the requirements to be a good MP though.
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Post by gawa on Apr 22, 2024 9:57:44 GMT
It's disputed but toolmaker or factory owner makes no difference to me. It was oggy or seymour who brought his dads occupation and working class credentials into the conversation. It was Oggy that said Starmer's father was a Toolmaker You asked "Who employed his father as a toolmaker?" I supplied the answer that Starmer's Father Rodney was a Self-employed Toolmaker In his "Expose" Biography of Starmer called "Red Knight" written by Lord Ashcroft he created an innuendo that the "Company" that Rodney operated called Oxted Tool Co was a bigger operation that its actual was just Rodney although I suppose careful of libel Laws went on to say he had no evidence of this This is the same Lord Ashcroft that recently wrote an "Expose" Biography on Angela Rayner called "Red Queen". For such a "creative" writer his choice of titles shows a distinct lack of creativity You may not be surprised to know that the Daily Fail serialised both Weighty Tomes and that quite a few of its readership believe Tax Dodging Lord Ashcroft's Bullshit Exactly, it wasn't me who brought his background up as I was critiquing his actions since becoming labour leader. It also wasn't me who brought Jeremy Corbyns background into question either however I do admit referencing Sunak when others decided to move the conversation away from Starmers actions but instead towards Starmers upbringing. I think it's very important to distinguish the difference between working on a factory production line and being a sole trading toolmaker. Lets not forget Rodneys quotes either where he discusses his son working in his factory one summer. Again though. I've little interest in his background - I'm very much interested in what he is doing today. As for Angela Rayner. I've criticised Tory tax dodgers for years on here. I won't be a hypocrite and decide to change my position or thoughts because it's Angela, who is to the left of starmer, being accused of it. Zahawi wasn't given a criminal conviction for dodging millions, Raynar isn't going to be given a conviction for doing it on a smaller scale. It doesn't make it ok though especially given the lack of integrity in Westminster in recent years. Anyway maybe we can get back to discussing Starmers actions now while being leader of the labour party. Hopefully that's not too uncomfortable a discussion for some on here.
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 22, 2024 10:25:52 GMT
He may be terrible. Remember with first past the post the important thing isn’t necessarily about who you want to win, it is about voting to stop who you don’t want. Else the vote may be a waste. I will be voting Labour purely to get rid of Gullis in Stoke North. Doesn't mean I endorse Starmer, David Williams the Labour candidate has all the requirements to be a good MP though. And Starmer needs to understand that if/when he wins a big majority it isn’t necessarily an endorsement of him, but largely a reaction against what we currently have. The best thing he could do to demonstrate that would be to win a majority under FPTP but still be big enough to change the voting system to a proportional system.
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Post by gawa on Apr 22, 2024 10:29:16 GMT
It's disputed but toolmaker or factory owner makes no difference to me. It was oggy or seymour who brought his dads occupation and working class credentials into the conversation. Only in response to your question 'Who employed his father?". Strange question to ask about something you have no interest in. Haven't you got a Dam to be building or something?
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Post by gawa on Apr 22, 2024 10:38:21 GMT
It does but doesn't mean he's going to be any good. Personally I was prepared to vote labour just to get rid of the current disastrous lot but his latest utterings about drugs and prohibition where he's just following the misguided, dog whistle tory rhetoric has me seriously considering spoiling my vote if there's no lib dem or green candidate in my area. He may be terrible. Remember with first past the post the important thing isn’t necessarily about who you want to win, it is about voting to stop who you don’t want. Else the vote may be a waste. That's not true at all Oggy. It is this mindset which enables the status quo we currently have. NO vote is wasted. The Greens didn't get to power in Bristol through a sudden one election surge or swing. It went 2%, 9%, 20%, Elected. The 2% inspired the 9% who then made the 20% feel it wouldn't be a wasted vote which eventually led to them being elected. It's a movement and being part of even just a 5% Green vote could encourage others to make that a 10% by the next election. The only wasted vote is voting for someone because you dislike them less than someone else. Giving them your vote is giving them a manifesto and your stamp of approval.
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Post by gawa on Apr 22, 2024 10:40:41 GMT
He may be terrible. Remember with first past the post the important thing isn’t necessarily about who you want to win, it is about voting to stop who you don’t want. Else the vote may be a waste. I will be voting Labour purely to get rid of Gullis in Stoke North. Doesn't mean I endorse Starmer, David Williams the Labour candidate has all the requirements to be a good MP though. Lets hope so Huddy. The last labour MP in Stoke North was debatably even more dislikeable than Gullis. Setting yourself up for a nomination for gammon of the year now Huddy
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Post by phileetin on Apr 22, 2024 10:45:37 GMT
Starmer's a technocrat - he'll run the government in a professional manner but I don't think he has any real vision of what he wants to achieve. The country really needs someone to grasp the nettle of how we pay for quality public services whilst supporting an aging population - unpopular decisions are necessary but nobody dares to make them. I suspect 5 years of managed decline is ahead - managed better than now but decline all the same.
i agree . what we need is somebody like maggie thatcher or , for his first couple of years , tony blair.
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Post by elystokie on Apr 22, 2024 11:22:47 GMT
He may be terrible. Remember with first past the post the important thing isn’t necessarily about who you want to win, it is about voting to stop who you don’t want. Else the vote may be a waste. I will be voting Labour purely to get rid of Gullis in Stoke North. Doesn't mean I endorse Starmer, David Williams the Labour candidate has all the requirements to be a good MP though. I have had far better interactions with Gareth Snell than I've ever had with Jo Gideon who refuses to engage in a discussion about drug policy, at least Snell was prepared to put a viewpoint forward, I don't agree with his view in the slightest but at least he has one. I'll see what the run up to the election is like before making my final decision.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Apr 22, 2024 11:31:01 GMT
I will be voting Labour purely to get rid of Gullis in Stoke North. Doesn't mean I endorse Starmer, David Williams the Labour candidate has all the requirements to be a good MP though. I have had far better interactions with Gareth Snell than I've ever had with Jo Gideon who refuses to engage in a discussion about drug policy, at least Snell was prepared to put a viewpoint forward, I don't agree with his view in the slightest but at least he has one. I'll see what the run up to the election is like before making my final decision. I hear he's a bit of a bully, liking to throw his considerable weight around to anyone who is to the left of him. Also quite a bit of controversy as to how he got reselected at PPC.
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Post by cvillestokie on Apr 22, 2024 11:37:13 GMT
I will be voting Labour purely to get rid of Gullis in Stoke North. Doesn't mean I endorse Starmer, David Williams the Labour candidate has all the requirements to be a good MP though. And Starmer needs to understand that if/when he wins a big majority it isn’t necessarily an endorsement of him, but largely a reaction against what we currently have. The best thing he could do to demonstrate that would be to win a majority under FPTP but still be big enough to change the voting system to a proportional system. He has said he isn’t interested in electoral reform. Makes sense, people who are going into power never want to change the machinery that has got them there even if their voter base does.
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 22, 2024 11:43:36 GMT
He may be terrible. Remember with first past the post the important thing isn’t necessarily about who you want to win, it is about voting to stop who you don’t want. Else the vote may be a waste. That's not true at all Oggy. It is this mindset which enables the status quo we currently have. NO vote is wasted. The Greens didn't get to power in Bristol through a sudden one election surge or swing. It went 2%, 9%, 20%, Elected. The 2% inspired the 9% who then made the 20% feel it wouldn't be a wasted vote which eventually led to them being elected. It's a movement and being part of even just a 5% Green vote could encourage others to make that a 10% by the next election. The only wasted vote is voting for someone because you dislike them less than someone else. Giving them your vote is giving them a manifesto and your stamp of approval. I think we would get tory governments forever then
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Post by elystokie on Apr 22, 2024 11:44:04 GMT
I have had far better interactions with Gareth Snell than I've ever had with Jo Gideon who refuses to engage in a discussion about drug policy, at least Snell was prepared to put a viewpoint forward, I don't agree with his view in the slightest but at least he has one. I'll see what the run up to the election is like before making my final decision. I hear he's a bit of a bully, liking to throw his considerable weight around to anyone who is to the left of him. Also quite a bit of controversy as to how he got reselected at PPC. Fair enough, I was just going on personal experience.
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 22, 2024 11:44:16 GMT
And Starmer needs to understand that if/when he wins a big majority it isn’t necessarily an endorsement of him, but largely a reaction against what we currently have. The best thing he could do to demonstrate that would be to win a majority under FPTP but still be big enough to change the voting system to a proportional system. He has said he isn’t interested in electoral reform. Makes sense, people who are going into power never want to change the machinery that has got them there even if their voter base does. I know. But I hear he is partial to a U turn now and then!
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Post by suck_the_mop. on Apr 22, 2024 13:33:26 GMT
Wonder how long after the election before this thread title changes to this labour government is incompetent a shambles and!!! Because it will i am no tory fan but simply can't see any of that rabble in Westminster making any difference, it is simply them and us.
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Post by desman2 on Apr 22, 2024 13:40:39 GMT
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Post by gawa on Apr 22, 2024 14:14:39 GMT
People used to complain about having to get an appointment within 48 hours 🤣
Then unfortunately young people started eating avocado and using netflix and that ruined the NHS.
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Apr 22, 2024 14:40:35 GMT
Wonder how long after the election before this thread title changes to this labour government is incompetent a shambles and!!! Because it will i am no tory fan but simply can't see any of that rabble in Westminster making any difference, it is simply them and us. While I fully expect a thread of similar title and many frustrations at the actions of a future Labour Government, people have to remember that over 14 years the Tories have been rancid. All decent voters should do whatever they can to drive the utterly contemptible bunch of wankers from power.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Apr 22, 2024 14:42:11 GMT
Wonder how long after the election before this thread title changes to this labour government is incompetent a shambles and!!! Because it will i am no tory fan but simply can't see any of that rabble in Westminster making any difference, it is simply them and us. Almost immediately I would have thought. There will be plenty queuing up to stick the boot in even before he's had the summons from Charlie 'inviting' him to form a government.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Apr 22, 2024 14:46:42 GMT
Wonder how long after the election before this thread title changes to this labour government is incompetent a shambles and!!! Because it will i am no tory fan but simply can't see any of that rabble in Westminster making any difference, it is simply them and us. Don’t dare suggest they’re all the same on this thread. You’ll get absolute pelters from the lefties
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Apr 22, 2024 14:49:56 GMT
Wonder how long after the election before this thread title changes to this labour government is incompetent a shambles and!!! Because it will i am no tory fan but simply can't see any of that rabble in Westminster making any difference, it is simply them and us. Don’t dare suggest they’re all the same on this thread. You’ll get absolute pelters from the lefties To be fair it'll the 'lefties' that will be doing the a good deal of the moaning when it comes to Starmer.
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Post by gawa on Apr 22, 2024 14:58:50 GMT
Wonder how long after the election before this thread title changes to this labour government is incompetent a shambles and!!! Because it will i am no tory fan but simply can't see any of that rabble in Westminster making any difference, it is simply them and us. Almost immediately I would have thought. There will be plenty queuing up to stick the boot in even before he's had the summons from Charlie 'inviting' him to form a government. As we should be. Starmer is PM in waiting. Focus should of course be on those in power or soon to be in power. In respect of Brexit, that might be true, 5/ 10 years....I can't see any of the current left/ Labour being of influence whatsoever....of course things could change , but they seem so bad , I can't see it. Perhaps a Green party with socialist leanings? Still wouldn't penetrate given the present electoral system. In the meantime rather than obsessing about the Labour party - who aren't in power - focus should be on those who who are (it won't turn your own lawn into a bowling green by simply pointing at the weeds in next doors) - however it seems they're getting less and less keen on people voicing their protests.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Apr 22, 2024 15:04:15 GMT
Almost immediately I would have thought. There will be plenty queuing up to stick the boot in even before he's had the summons from Charlie 'inviting' him to form a government. As we should be. Starmer is PM in waiting. Focus should of course be on those in power or soon to be in power. Still wouldn't penetrate given the present electoral system. In the meantime rather than obsessing about the Labour party - who aren't in power - focus should be on those who who are (it won't turn your own lawn into a bowling green by simply pointing at the weeds in next doors) - however it seems they're getting less and less keen on people voicing their protests. I'm sure you think you've made some clever observation that's banged me to rights but whatever it is it's way over my head.
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Post by desman2 on Apr 22, 2024 15:11:05 GMT
Would love to see people go into a polling station and simply vote for anyone other than these two parties just to send a clear message that we are not going to be pissed about any more. We talk about 14 years of tory government yet before that we had 12 years of labour and we are where we are now, yet people seem to believe that going back to the previous is the answer. Then after a couple of terms we shall be talking about going back again just for a change. And then rinse and repeat. We deserve what we get. We can't blame any party overall as they can't wreck the country unless you give them the opportunity to do so. The fault is ours and ours alone. Enjoy.
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Post by wannabee on Apr 22, 2024 15:16:52 GMT
An extremely important point desman which limits the options whichever Government next takes up office In the method the ONS count Government Debt it is set to rise to £2.8 Trillion or more than 100% of GDP in 2024/25 Fiscal year UK habitually runs a Budget Deficit increasing the Debt each year. The Last time UK took in more Revenue than it spent was 2000/01 Tax Rates are at the highest post World War 11 Interest to service Debt was £112Bn in 2023/24 and is set to increase by £23Bn due to higher interest rates. In total more that 10% of all Government Revenue ONS doesn't include liability for State Pensions or Public Service Pensions which is another £9.1 Trillion and an aging population www.taxpayersalliance.com/briefing_the_real_national_debt_2024It's an unenviable task facing the next Chancellor
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Apr 22, 2024 15:22:28 GMT
Don’t dare suggest they’re all the same on this thread. You’ll get absolute pelters from the lefties To be fair it'll the 'lefties' that will be doing the a good deal of the moaning when it comes to Starmer. So we’ll all be moaning exactly how we are now then
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Post by gawa on Apr 22, 2024 15:22:56 GMT
As we should be. Starmer is PM in waiting. Focus should of course be on those in power or soon to be in power. I'm sure you think you've made some clever observation that's banged me to rights but whatever it is it's way over my head. Nope none at all. Just agreeing with what you said to John. I don't understand your earlier posts about people being giddy about criticising starmer when he becomes leader. Why wouldn't we be holding him to the same standards as tories from day one? Did we all have a 1 month pause for Liz Truss or Rishi Sunak? We should be holding him to account now nevermind when he is elected. Why people seem to think that's a problem I don't know.
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