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Post by franklin on Nov 20, 2020 10:49:59 GMT
Whilst I understand your point I'd like to clear one thing up in the short time I've spent in Germany they are very proficient at not paying tax, there are plenty of places by that I mean loads that only take cash no cards and thats widely understood and specifically to avoid paying their proper taxes. I've no doubt every country has a grey economy, ours is particularly strong, not surprisingly! I have a lot of personal experience of Germany as well and can tell you that their tax take overall is higher than ours, has been for decades, and their public services are far better. Coincidence? Possibly, but I doubt it. Oh I'm not saying they don't pay tax or that its quite a lot but it includes all kinds of things in that payment. Im not sure I'd include health in the better category either even painkillers are not easy to get not like here in every shop etc and they are very expensive compared to here an average dental appointment is €300 for my lad. Communication is way better granted but housing is beyond most to buy or they choose not to buy renting is the normal way people live.
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Post by Kilo on Nov 20, 2020 10:53:21 GMT
Who have I attacked? You have no idea what the mega rich do for the needy, even my ex-boss donated £20K to Ian Botham's walk which was fantastic (mainly because he didn't want to walk 20 miles with Botham from Birmingham to Clent so I got to do it instead)
All I'm doing is not condemning people who I don't know for something I don't know if they've done or not.
For the record, here's me naming a lifeboat after raising £80,000 to buy it. But you carry on calling me scrooge with no moral compass if it make you feel better.
You're getting all uppity with anyone who questions how much the rich (in general) do for the poor. Your original response to me where you basically called me clueless demonstrates that. Maybe in your world the Sheriff of Nottingham is the good guy, but for the vast majority of people he isn't. ps - Good work with the lifeboat. I'm not getting uppity, I've just chosen to argue this morning because I have a hangover I'm happier now you've added (in general) rather than slating all rich people. I find that most people who don't like the rich, don't like them because they wish they had more money themselves which is a pretty stupid reason for hating someone.
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Post by foster on Nov 20, 2020 10:59:51 GMT
You're getting all uppity with anyone who questions how much the rich (in general) do for the poor. Your original response to me where you basically called me clueless demonstrates that. Maybe in your world the Sheriff of Nottingham is the good guy, but for the vast majority of people he isn't. ps - Good work with the lifeboat. I'm not getting uppity, I've just chosen to argue this morning because I have a hangover I'm happier now you've added (in general) rather than slating all rich people. I find that most people who don't like the rich, don't like them because they wish they had more money themselves which is a pretty stupid reason for hating someone. I don't think many people wouldn't like to have more money. I've been buying Euromillions tickets for years now and unbelievably I still haven't hit the jackpot. It's a sham! ps - I will be buying another one for tonight though when I head out to get my weekend beers later.
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Post by franklin on Nov 20, 2020 11:01:19 GMT
I'm not getting uppity, I've just chosen to argue this morning because I have a hangover I'm happier now you've added (in general) rather than slating all rich people. I find that most people who don't like the rich, don't like them because they wish they had more money themselves which is a pretty stupid reason for hating someone. I don't think many people wouldn't like to have more money. I've been buying Euromillions tickets for years now and unbelievably I still haven't hit the jackpot. It's a sham! ps - I will be buying another one for tonight though when I head out to get my weekend beers later. I've splashed out I've got two 🤞
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Post by foster on Nov 20, 2020 11:03:07 GMT
I don't think many people wouldn't like to have more money. I've been buying Euromillions tickets for years now and unbelievably I still haven't hit the jackpot. It's a sham! ps - I will be buying another one for tonight though when I head out to get my weekend beers later. I've splashed out I've got two 🤞 I'm not sure you should be allowed to buy Euromillions tickets mate
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 20, 2020 11:04:24 GMT
Yeah, I probably should have mentioned that I fully expect politicians will get their annual bonuses / benefits. But then again, so will all the mega rich that don't seem to be doing their fair share when it comes to supporting their fellow man (or woman). You obviously have no idea what the 'mega rich' do to support their fellow men but let's not miss out on having a dig at rich people eh? John Caudwell has had loads of stick on here for spending so much money on a house in London (in reality because he's donated to the Tories) and the fact he's generated/donated millions to kids in need along with many other significant donations to businesses and charities in Staffordshire is ignored. I would never knock anyone who gives to charity, but to put into perspective his foundation donate around £4m a year and he has a personal fortune of £1.6 billion which is around 0.2% (if I've done the maths right fingers crossed) of his worth per annum. Some "mega rich" individuals and corporations will donate big sums on paper, whilst simultaneously avoiding paying tax. Charity is great, a society that pays it's taxes to ensure we're not reliant in charity is even better......
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Post by franklin on Nov 20, 2020 11:05:22 GMT
I've splashed out I've got two 🤞 I'm not sure you should be allowed to buy Euromillions tickets mate Shhhh its the only thing I like about the EU other than holidays of course. Luckily I have a contingency plan in Germany lol
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Post by wagsastokie on Nov 20, 2020 11:08:21 GMT
You're getting all uppity with anyone who questions how much the rich (in general) do for the poor. Your original response to me where you basically called me clueless demonstrates that. Maybe in your world the Sheriff of Nottingham is the good guy, but for the vast majority of people he isn't. ps - Good work with the lifeboat. I'm not getting uppity, I've just chosen to argue this morning because I have a hangover I'm happier now you've added (in general) rather than slating all rich people. I find that most people who don't like the rich, don't like them because they wish they had more money themselves which is a pretty stupid reason for hating someone. The Labour Party have made a bloody good living out of hating the rich
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Post by Kilo on Nov 20, 2020 11:30:31 GMT
You obviously have no idea what the 'mega rich' do to support their fellow men but let's not miss out on having a dig at rich people eh? John Caudwell has had loads of stick on here for spending so much money on a house in London (in reality because he's donated to the Tories) and the fact he's generated/donated millions to kids in need along with many other significant donations to businesses and charities in Staffordshire is ignored. I would never knock anyone who gives to charity, but to put into perspective his foundation donate around £4m a year and he has a personal fortune of £1.6 billion which is around 0.2% (if I've done the maths right fingers crossed) of his worth per annum. Some "mega rich" individuals and corporations will donate big sums on paper, whilst simultaneously avoiding paying tax. Charity is great, a society that pays it's taxes to ensure we're not reliant in charity is even better...... His net worth may be £1.6b but that doesn't mean he has that all in his bank account does it? He donates far more than his £4m to Caudwell Children and may donate much more than is known publically. He's also one of those that has signed up Bill Gates Giving Pledge so I don't understand why he gets so much stick on here. I certainly don't think it's my right or anybody elses to tell him how much more he should be doing for others.
Of course society should pay it's taxes and I'm sure that most do. I wouldn't bet that there's just as many people who 'choose' to be on benefits rather than work as there are who 'choose' to avoid paying tax. I'd put those that mug and burgle even lower and as for the people who rape & pillage, don't get me started.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 20, 2020 11:30:40 GMT
I'm not getting uppity, I've just chosen to argue this morning because I have a hangover I'm happier now you've added (in general) rather than slating all rich people. I find that most people who don't like the rich, don't like them because they wish they had more money themselves which is a pretty stupid reason for hating someone. The Labour Party have made a bloody good living out of hating the rich The rich have made a bloody good living off the sweat of the poor.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 20, 2020 11:47:07 GMT
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 20, 2020 11:53:57 GMT
Wow. You moral compass is about straight as the Zambezi! Justifying actual bullying now Expecting people to do their jobs is not bullying, no complaints were actually made through proper channels or procedures they all miraculously appeared as soon the chinless wonder civil servant resigned, the old boys network in action. Yeah it's just everyone else mate isn't it
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Post by dutchstokie on Nov 20, 2020 12:23:15 GMT
The point is, isn't it funny how those countries which pay more tax overall also, generally, have better public services, are generally more content and rely less on these kind of grand gesture type activities. I recognise that they do help and they also allow people to feel that something is being done, even if it's a drop in the ocean to what could be achieved for everyone in the country through a more mature and less selfish approach to taxation. Us lot over here in Holland for example......
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Nov 20, 2020 12:23:46 GMT
The country voted for a leader with no principles. It deserves what it gets.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 20, 2020 12:26:17 GMT
Just like Cummings, just like the corruption of chumocracy. Rules and laws are just something that apply to the plebs with this lot...not 'us' and 'our kind'.
Vile.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 20, 2020 12:44:55 GMT
They are a bunch of charlatans with absolutely no moral fibre.
Patel should be out on her arse. It's pathetic.
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 20, 2020 13:47:13 GMT
Expecting people to do their jobs is not bullying, no complaints were actually made through proper channels or procedures they all miraculously appeared as soon the chinless wonder civil servant resigned, the old boys network in action. Yeah it's just everyone else mate isn't it Considering your ever changing stance on corbyn thats quite remarkable brass neck. Sir Alex Allen damn big loss left before most people even had a scoobies who they were.
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 20, 2020 13:53:59 GMT
They are a bunch of charlatans with absolutely no moral fibre. Patel should be out on her arse. It's pathetic. Really ? She at worst shouted at senior civil servants for not doing their job and in some cases actively obstructing her instructions, it wasn't the tea lady or cleaner. If shouting and arguing constitutes a sackable bullying offence in the real world I can honestly think of 4 or 5 companies I have worked at where they would be changing management on a par with Nathan Jones changing team selections.
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 20, 2020 14:09:46 GMT
They are a bunch of charlatans with absolutely no moral fibre. Patel should be out on her arse. It's pathetic. Really ? She at worst shouted at senior civil servants for not doing their job and in some cases actively obstructing her instructions, it wasn't the tea lady or cleaner. If shouting and arguing constitutes a sackable bullying offence in the real world I can honestly think of 4 or 5 companies I have worked at where they would be changing management on a par with Nathan Jones changing team selections. Was it senior civil servants being bullied or regular staff or anyone and everyone.
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Post by franklin on Nov 20, 2020 14:21:20 GMT
They are a bunch of charlatans with absolutely no moral fibre. Patel should be out on her arse. It's pathetic. Really ? She at worst shouted at senior civil servants for not doing their job and in some cases actively obstructing her instructions, it wasn't the tea lady or cleaner. If shouting and arguing constitutes a sackable bullying offence in the real world I can honestly think of 4 or 5 companies I have worked at where they would be changing management on a par with Nathan Jones changing team selections. I'm pretty sure I was "bullied" nearly every day of my working life if thats the bench mark.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 20, 2020 14:22:24 GMT
Yeah it's just everyone else mate isn't it Considering your ever changing stance on corbyn thats quite remarkable brass neck. Sir Alex Allen damn big loss left before most people even had a scoobies who they were. I'd be interested to know what's changed on my Corbyn stance Anyway our glorious PM has decided that she hasn't broken the ministerial code over and above the guy who actually advises on ministerial standards. Fair enough. I look forward to reading the report in full to see how he came to that conclusion. I mean he will release it wont he, like any decent individual and responsible Prime Minister would? Not looking good for team FYD is it. Setting up their own version of the Dignitas clinic in care homes, playing fast and loose with their own lockdown rules, starving children in school holidays, throwing money at their mates and profiting from a pandemic and now advocating bullying in the work place. What a fucking mob they are.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 20, 2020 14:22:35 GMT
The country voted for a leader with no principles. It deserves what it gets. That's true. As I said a few pages back, there appears to be very little which will cause this lot to accept they've done wrong and resign. Jenrick, Patel, Hancock - corruption, bullying and sleaze runs through the heart of this government like it was a stick of rock. The point is - you break the ministerial code, you resign. Or at least, you did. Now it appears you don't but the person responsible for overseeing it does, in protest. This lot is utterly shameless.
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 20, 2020 14:25:18 GMT
Really ? She at worst shouted at senior civil servants for not doing their job and in some cases actively obstructing her instructions, it wasn't the tea lady or cleaner. If shouting and arguing constitutes a sackable bullying offence in the real world I can honestly think of 4 or 5 companies I have worked at where they would be changing management on a par with Nathan Jones changing team selections. Was it senior civil servants being bullied or regular staff or anyone and everyone. Only seen senior civil servants mentioned there seems to be specifics missing on all the claims guess the next day or two we will see if there is any substance.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 20, 2020 14:40:08 GMT
The country voted for a leader with no principles. It deserves what it gets. That's true. As I said a few pages back, there appears to be very little which will cause this lot to accept they've done wrong and resign. Jenrick, Patel, Hancock - corruption, bullying and sleaze runs through the heart of this government like it was a stick of rock. The point is - you break the ministerial code, you resign. Or at least, you did. Now it appears you don't but the person responsible for overseeing it does, in protest. This lot is utterly shameless. Yeah the first in modern times not to resign for breaking the Ministerial code so it falls to the Prime Minister to sack her. He decides not to and then suppresses the report on which he made this judgement. Slimy, murky, no accountability, no decency, no transparency. All the hallmarks of this Government.
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Post by cerebralstokie on Nov 20, 2020 14:42:03 GMT
A complaint was made against Piti Patel. An Independent Investigator was appointed to see if there was any truth in the complaint. He found that there was. The Prime Minister chose to ignore the findings of the Investigator - just as he stood by Dominic Cummings after his visit(s) to Durham and Barnard Castle - and we all know how that ended. Boris Johnson lacks integrity in my view and his judgement on a number if issues should be called into question.
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 20, 2020 15:17:46 GMT
Considering your ever changing stance on corbyn thats quite remarkable brass neck. Sir Alex Allen damn big loss left before most people even had a scoobies who they were. I'd be interested to know what's changed on my Corbyn stance Anyway our glorious PM has decided that she hasn't broken the ministerial code over and above the guy who actually advises on ministerial standards. Fair enough. I look forward to reading the report in full to see how he came to that conclusion. I mean he will release it wont he, like any decent individual and responsible Prime Minister would? Not looking good for team FYD is it. Setting up their own version of the Dignitas clinic in care homes, playing fast and loose with their own lockdown rules, starving children in school holidays, throwing money at their mates and profiting from a pandemic and now advocating bullying in the work place. What a fucking mob they are. Just a reminder a little over 3 weeks ago the EHRC found Jeremy Corbyn and his staff guilty of racial discrimination to such an extent they broke the law not a code of conduct. Jeremy Corbyn has not apologised, accepted or acknowledged any personal responsibility for this and you are absolutely ok with this.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 20, 2020 15:22:36 GMT
I'd be interested to know what's changed on my Corbyn stance Anyway our glorious PM has decided that she hasn't broken the ministerial code over and above the guy who actually advises on ministerial standards. Fair enough. I look forward to reading the report in full to see how he came to that conclusion. I mean he will release it wont he, like any decent individual and responsible Prime Minister would? Not looking good for team FYD is it. Setting up their own version of the Dignitas clinic in care homes, playing fast and loose with their own lockdown rules, starving children in school holidays, throwing money at their mates and profiting from a pandemic and now advocating bullying in the work place. What a fucking mob they are. Just a reminder a little over 3 weeks ago the EHRC found Jeremy Corbyn and his staff guilty of racial discrimination to such an extent they broke the law not a code of conduct. Jeremy Corbyn has not apologised, accepted or acknowledged any personal responsibility for this and you are absolutely ok with this. Jeremy Corbyn was neither accused of anti-Semitism or any level of racism by the EHRC. Sorry to disappoint you because I know it's the discrimination itself that bothers you and not the perpetrator.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 20, 2020 15:26:05 GMT
A complaint was made against Piti Patel. An Independent Investigator was appointed to see if there was any truth in the complaint. He found that there was. The Prime Minister chose to ignore the findings of the Investigator - just as he stood by Dominic Cummings after his visit(s) to Durham and Barnard Castle - and we all know how that ended. Boris Johnson lacks integrity in my view and his judgement on a number if issues should be called into question.I think it was by many people some time ago...
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 20, 2020 15:31:33 GMT
Just a reminder a little over 3 weeks ago the EHRC found Jeremy Corbyn and his staff guilty of racial discrimination to such an extent they broke the law not a code of conduct. Jeremy Corbyn has not apologised, accepted or acknowledged any personal responsibility for this and you are absolutely ok with this. Jeremy Corbyn was neither accused of anti-Semitism or any level of racism by the EHRC. Sorry to disappoint you because I know it's the discrimination itself that bothers you and not the perpetrator. Alasdair Henderson from the EHRC said he "has a responsibility ultimately for those failings” but yeah these things just happened not his fault or anyone who worked for him could have done a thing about it oh hang on...
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Post by shakermaker on Nov 20, 2020 15:32:37 GMT
Just a reminder a little over 3 weeks ago the EHRC found Jeremy Corbyn and his staff guilty of racial discrimination to such an extent they broke the law not a code of conduct. Jeremy Corbyn has not apologised, accepted or acknowledged any personal responsibility for this and you are absolutely ok with this. Jeremy Corbyn was neither accused of anti-Semitism or any level of racism by the EHRC. Sorry to disappoint you because I know it's the discrimination itself that bothers you and not the perpetrator. Indeed, and even then Jezza's only crime was not to toe the line. Just for that, he has been suspended as a Labour MP. Yet Patel has been found guilty in an independent investigation of bullying and breaking the ministerial code, and our self-absorbed, arrogant leader hasn't got the balls or morals to take any action whatsoever. Don't get me wrong, in some ways I admire Patel's resolve to take the Home Office by the horns and that might require ruffling a few feathers. But bullying is a cowardly and humiliating act, which is why Boris needs to publish the full report to back up his decision. I hope Sir Keir and other parties pile on the pressure for him to do just that at PMQs next week!
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