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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 21, 2024 15:21:52 GMT
Was it not Yvette Cooper who introduced fit to work tests which have resulted in many disabled people being refused benefits? Let's talk about some of the things Labour did under Blair (no i havent quoted every tweet from this thread. Less tban 20% are below):
I think there's a bit of recent bias being applied when it comes to Tony Blairs reign. Wasn't so long ago that Blair wanted to withdraw from parts of the EHCR - www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tony-blair-labour-asylum-echr-b2470463.htmlLet's not forget when Starmer listed 3 ex pms he wanted to emulate, 2 of those were Blair and Thatcher. Blair generally did a lot of good. NHS Continuing Care for example. Disabled people had it better under Blair than now.
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Post by cvillestokie on Apr 21, 2024 15:36:39 GMT
It’s not like he’s decided to now lead a party in a different country though. You think he’d be able to keep some of them 😂. He’s going to be awful for the country - just another toff. He isn’t a toff. He is middle class. He may keep some. He may have decided other things take priority. We will have to wait for his manifesto. A knighted barrister who just had £200k of spare land to sell. Doesn’t sound like your average middle class person to me. The HMRC puts him in the top 1% of earners in the UK and Equity Trust estimates him to be worth £5 million. Man of the people.
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 21, 2024 15:46:51 GMT
He isn’t a toff. He is middle class. He may keep some. He may have decided other things take priority. We will have to wait for his manifesto. A knighted barrister who just had £200k of spare land to sell. Doesn’t sound like your average middle class person to me. The HMRC puts him in the top 1% of earners in the UK and Equity Trust estimates him to be worth £5 million. Man of the people. He attended a selective state school. His mother was a nurse and his father a toolmaker and both Labour party members. He was a man of the people, and he did very well at school and went to Leeds university and then Oxford for a postgrad and he became a barrister and did extremely well, ending up as Head of the CPS. Class isn’t about how much money you earn and how successful you are. Or are you saying nobody who is working class can be successful and be paid a lot? What about most footballers? Are they upper class? Wayne Rooney? Lord Alan Sugar? Are they upper class? Remember, so called man of the people, Nigel Farage was privately educated at one of the most exclusive private schools in the country, and Jeremy Corbyn was also privately educated. Starmer is from far more meagre origins than both.
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Post by gawa on Apr 21, 2024 15:56:48 GMT
A knighted barrister who just had £200k of spare land to sell. Doesn’t sound like your average middle class person to me. The HMRC puts him in the top 1% of earners in the UK and Equity Trust estimates him to be worth £5 million. Man of the people. He attended a selective state school. His mother was a nurse and his father a toolmaker and both Labour party members. He was a man of the people, and he did very well at school and went to Leeds university and then Oxford for a postgrad and he became a barrister and did extremely well, ending up as Head of the CPS. Class isn’t about how much money you earn and how successful you are. Or are you saying nobody who is working class can be successful and be paid a lot? What about most footballers? Are they upper class? Wayne Rooney? Lord Alan Sugar? Are they upper class? Who employed his father as a toolmaker?
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 21, 2024 15:59:43 GMT
He attended a selective state school. His mother was a nurse and his father a toolmaker and both Labour party members. He was a man of the people, and he did very well at school and went to Leeds university and then Oxford for a postgrad and he became a barrister and did extremely well, ending up as Head of the CPS. Class isn’t about how much money you earn and how successful you are. Or are you saying nobody who is working class can be successful and be paid a lot? What about most footballers? Are they upper class? Wayne Rooney? Lord Alan Sugar? Are they upper class? Who employed his father as a toolmaker? I have absolutely no idea. But I am sure you will tell me. Corbyn isn’t working class. His family were rich enough to privately educate their 4 kids.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Apr 21, 2024 16:01:15 GMT
He isn’t a toff. He is middle class. He may keep some. He may have decided other things take priority. We will have to wait for his manifesto. A knighted barrister who just had £200k of spare land to sell. Doesn’t sound like your average middle class person to me. The HMRC puts him in the top 1% of earners in the UK and Equity Trust estimates him to be worth £5 million. Man of the people. He wasn't born into wealth - he studied, worked hard, got well paid for what he did and - to the best of my knowledge - has paid his taxes into the UK Treasury. I'm not sure what he's supposed to do - waste his education for a job flipping burgers or delivering for Amazon just so he can have some street cred? Wealth and 'working class' are not mutually exclusive and to have aspiration in society is a good thing.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Apr 21, 2024 16:08:16 GMT
Who employed his father as a toolmaker? I have absolutely no idea. But I am sure you will tell me. Corbyn isn’t working class. His family were rich enough to privately educate their 4 kids. It's rumoured (but not substantiated) that it was his own factory. Therefore committing the 'sin' of self employment. I'm no fan of Starmer but the barrel scraping to stick one on him is beyond pathetic.
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 21, 2024 16:10:34 GMT
I have absolutely no idea. But I am sure you will tell me. Corbyn isn’t working class. His family were rich enough to privately educate their 4 kids. It's rumoured (but not substantiated) that it was his own factory. Therefore committing the 'sin' of self employment. I'm no fan of Starmer but the barrel scraping to stick one on him is beyond pathetic. Oh well in that case Starmer should be shot. My grandfather ran his own business from about age 25 after leaving school at 14. I think it means I am 12th in line for the throne.
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Post by gawa on Apr 21, 2024 16:15:59 GMT
Who employed his father as a toolmaker? I have absolutely no idea. But I am sure you will tell me. Corbyn isn’t working class. His family were rich enough to privately educate their 4 kids. I don't think corbyn has ever really tried to his use upbringing as some sort of way to show he's working class. Those who attribute it to him do so due to his minimalist lifestyle and frequent use of public transport. I think there's a difference between being a toolmaker and running a factory employing toolmakers. Just like I think there's a difference between Sunaks mother being a pharmacist and owning a pharmacy employing people.
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Post by cvillestokie on Apr 21, 2024 16:19:28 GMT
A knighted barrister who just had £200k of spare land to sell. Doesn’t sound like your average middle class person to me. The HMRC puts him in the top 1% of earners in the UK and Equity Trust estimates him to be worth £5 million. Man of the people. He attended a selective state school. His mother was a nurse and his father a toolmaker and both Labour party members. He was a man of the people, and he did very well at school and went to Leeds university and then Oxford for a postgrad and he became a barrister and did extremely well, ending up as Head of the CPS. Class isn’t about how much money you earn and how successful you are. Or are you saying nobody who is working class can be successful and be paid a lot? What about most footballers? Are they upper class? Wayne Rooney? Lord Alan Sugar? Are they upper class? The whole idea that you can’t move between “class” is stupid and really pays into the British psyche of the little lamb that must do what their “betters” command. He may well have had a normal beginning but he is 61. He’s spent far more of his life in luxury than without. Yes, footballers like Wayne Rooney absolutely are in the “Upper Class”. They can pretty much do what they want, when they want. The idea that “class” is more than money is archaic and degrading.
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 21, 2024 16:24:05 GMT
I have absolutely no idea. But I am sure you will tell me. Corbyn isn’t working class. His family were rich enough to privately educate their 4 kids. I don't think corbyn has ever really tried to his use upbringing as some sort of way to show he's working class. Those who attribute it to him do so due to his minimalist lifestyle and frequent use of public transport. I think there's a difference between being a toolmaker and running a factory employing toolmakers. Just like I think there's a difference between Sunaks mother being a pharmacist and owning a pharmacy employing people. So why does Starmer get attacked by Labour supporters for not being “working class”, but Corbyn doesn’t receive the same attacks? Corbyn comes from greater wealth and was privately educated. Starmer didn’t have that advantage in life. Starmer is from a more working class background than Corbyn and has been extremely successful.
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 21, 2024 16:28:07 GMT
He attended a selective state school. His mother was a nurse and his father a toolmaker and both Labour party members. He was a man of the people, and he did very well at school and went to Leeds university and then Oxford for a postgrad and he became a barrister and did extremely well, ending up as Head of the CPS. Class isn’t about how much money you earn and how successful you are. Or are you saying nobody who is working class can be successful and be paid a lot? What about most footballers? Are they upper class? Wayne Rooney? Lord Alan Sugar? Are they upper class? The whole idea that you can’t move between “class” is stupid and really pays into the British psyche of the little lamb that must do what their “betters” command. He may well have had a normal beginning but he is 61. He’s spent far more of his life in luxury than without. Yes, footballers like Wayne Rooney absolutely are in the “Upper Class”. They can pretty much do what they want, when they want. The idea that “class” is more than money is archaic and degrading. So you want someone born working class who doesn’t succeed or do well to move up a class to lead our country!? How would that even work!?
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Post by cvillestokie on Apr 21, 2024 16:34:14 GMT
The whole idea that you can’t move between “class” is stupid and really pays into the British psyche of the little lamb that must do what their “betters” command. He may well have had a normal beginning but he is 61. He’s spent far more of his life in luxury than without. Yes, footballers like Wayne Rooney absolutely are in the “Upper Class”. They can pretty much do what they want, when they want. The idea that “class” is more than money is archaic and degrading. So you want someone born working class who doesn’t succeed or do well to move up a class to lead our country!? How would that even work!? Does “doing well” have to mean being a millionaire? Is there no middle ground? Could it actually not just be someone who is, for example, a small business owner that isn’t entrenched in the gluttony of the 1%? If Starmer was looking to make policies that his voting base wanted, it would be less of a big deal. However, he isn’t. He’s just another Tory.
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 21, 2024 16:41:52 GMT
So you want someone born working class who doesn’t succeed or do well to move up a class to lead our country!? How would that even work!? Does “doing well” have to mean being a millionaire? Is there no middle ground? Could it actually not just be someone who is, for example, a small business owner that isn’t entrenched in the gluttony of the 1%? If Starmer was looking to make policies that his voting base wanted, it would be less of a big deal. However, he isn’t. He’s just another Tory. But what if that small business owner does well and makes lots of money? Are they not fit to run the country then? Let’s check Starmer’s policy announcements: Vat on private school fees - definitely not tory Nationalised green energy company - definitely not tory Changes to non-dom rules to clamp down on tax avoiders - definitely not a typical tory policy Windfall tax on energy companies- definitely not a typically tory policy So the facts don’t back you up. Starmer comes from a less privileged background than Corbyn and has been extremely successful. That is not a reason for him not to lead our country, quite the contrary. Or would you prefer a far less successful former barrister, like Suella Braverman, to run the country because she isn’t as successful as Starmer in her day job? Or someone undoubtedly working class like Lee Anderson?
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Apr 21, 2024 16:47:56 GMT
He attended a selective state school. His mother was a nurse and his father a toolmaker and both Labour party members. He was a man of the people, and he did very well at school and went to Leeds university and then Oxford for a postgrad and he became a barrister and did extremely well, ending up as Head of the CPS. Class isn’t about how much money you earn and how successful you are. Or are you saying nobody who is working class can be successful and be paid a lot? What about most footballers? Are they upper class? Wayne Rooney? Lord Alan Sugar? Are they upper class? The whole idea that you can’t move between “class” is stupid and really pays into the British psyche of the little lamb that must do what their “betters” command. He may well have had a normal beginning but he is 61. He’s spent far more of his life in luxury than without. Yes, footballers like Wayne Rooney absolutely are in the “Upper Class”. They can pretty much do what they want, when they want. The idea that “class” is more than money is archaic and degrading. The idea of class being more than money is not archaic - the definition of class and how it operates in British society hasn't changed. The idea that you have to have money and join the upper classes in order to be given the opportunity to have an important role in society is degrading. Why shouldn't someone from a working class background who hasn't dedicated their life to become rich not have the opportunity to be, for example, Prime Minister? Class in the country is still more than just about wealth in fact the traditional upper class have always sneered at people who have acquired wealth through their own gf are work. Places At the top universities and certain professions (law, journalism, the acting profession) is massively skewed to people in the upper classes and against those in the working classes. The answer isn't individual acquiring wealth in order to become "better" than they are but to get rid of the assumption that people of the upper classes are "better" than those from the lower classes. We are still a class based society. We need to get rid of the invidious role class and how it continues to distort perceptions of worth and life opportunity.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Apr 21, 2024 17:05:05 GMT
It's rumoured (but not substantiated) that it was his own factory. Therefore committing the 'sin' of self employment. I'm no fan of Starmer but the barrel scraping to stick one on him is beyond pathetic. Oh well in that case Starmer should be shot. My grandfather ran his own business from about age 25 after leaving school at 14. I think it means I am 12th in line for the throne. The only record of Rodney Starmer being a Director of anything at companies House is of the Donkey Breed Society - a charity. There is no record of him ever having a position that would suggest he 'owned a factory". But for folk who want to believe it just keep repeating it and it becomes 'the Truth'.
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Post by gawa on Apr 21, 2024 17:07:16 GMT
I don't think corbyn has ever really tried to his use upbringing as some sort of way to show he's working class. Those who attribute it to him do so due to his minimalist lifestyle and frequent use of public transport. I think there's a difference between being a toolmaker and running a factory employing toolmakers. Just like I think there's a difference between Sunaks mother being a pharmacist and owning a pharmacy employing people. So why does Starmer get attacked by Labour supporters for not being “working class”, but Corbyn doesn’t receive the same attacks? Corbyn comes from greater wealth and was privately educated. Starmer didn’t have that advantage in life. Starmer is from a more working class background than Corbyn and has been extremely successful. I don't see many labour supporters attacking starmer to be honest. Maybe ex supporters. As for Corbyn, he didn't go out doing interviews trying to pretend to be from a working class background like starmer. He didn't downgrade his electrical engineer dad to a sparky to try and make himself appear what he wasn't. Also what relevance does corbyn even have to any of this?
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 21, 2024 17:22:20 GMT
So why does Starmer get attacked by Labour supporters for not being “working class”, but Corbyn doesn’t receive the same attacks? Corbyn comes from greater wealth and was privately educated. Starmer didn’t have that advantage in life. Starmer is from a more working class background than Corbyn and has been extremely successful. I don't see many labour supporters attacking starmer to be honest. Maybe ex supporters. As for Corbyn, he didn't go out doing interviews trying to pretend to be from a working class background like starmer. He didn't downgrade his electrical engineer dad to a sparky to try and make himself appear what he wasn't. Also what relevance does corbyn even have to any of this? Starmer’s is not an ex-Etonian. He wasn’t even privately educated, unusual for a MP. He is from a normal background typical of millions in the country, but he has to his credit through hard work been very successful in his career before and during politics. I bring up Corbyn because the people who hate Starmer the most and want to see him fail are often Corbyn supporters, including many on here. You are very critical of Starmer, and the fact he is now rich is used against him. I merely point out that he had less than Corbyn, someone you have spoken positively about, when growing up by comparison. Both are very different to Cameron, Osborne, Farage, Johnson by way of comparison.
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Post by gawa on Apr 21, 2024 17:39:50 GMT
I don't see many labour supporters attacking starmer to be honest. Maybe ex supporters. As for Corbyn, he didn't go out doing interviews trying to pretend to be from a working class background like starmer. He didn't downgrade his electrical engineer dad to a sparky to try and make himself appear what he wasn't. Also what relevance does corbyn even have to any of this? Starmer’s is not an ex-Etonian. He wasn’t even privately educated, unusual for a MP. He is from a normal background typical of millions in the country, but he has to his credit through hard work been very successful in his career before and during politics. I bring up Corbyn because the people who hate Starmer the most and want to see him fail are often Corbyn supporters, including many on here. You are very critical of Starmer, and the fact he is now rich is used against him. I merely point out that he had less than Corbyn, someone you have spoken positively about, when growing up by comparison. Both are very different to Cameron, Osborne, Farage, Johnson by way of comparison. My criticism on starmer isn't based upon his dad's job or what school he went to. I actually thought he was alright a few years ago. My attacks are based on what's happened within labour from grassroots through to NEC under his leadership, his policies, whom he shares company and accepts donations from, his and lindsay hoyles actions in Westminster, his foreign policy and the indistinguishable differences between what he was elected leader for and what he intends to do. I hope those who have spent years scrutinising tories apply the same scrutiny to Starmer.
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 21, 2024 18:11:02 GMT
Starmer’s is not an ex-Etonian. He wasn’t even privately educated, unusual for a MP. He is from a normal background typical of millions in the country, but he has to his credit through hard work been very successful in his career before and during politics. I bring up Corbyn because the people who hate Starmer the most and want to see him fail are often Corbyn supporters, including many on here. You are very critical of Starmer, and the fact he is now rich is used against him. I merely point out that he had less than Corbyn, someone you have spoken positively about, when growing up by comparison. Both are very different to Cameron, Osborne, Farage, Johnson by way of comparison. My criticism on starmer isn't based upon his dad's job or what school he went to. I actually thought he was alright a few years ago. My attacks are based on what's happened within labour from grassroots through to NEC under his leadership, his policies, whom he shares company and accepts donations from, his and lindsay hoyles actions in Westminster, his foreign policy and the indistinguishable differences between what he was elected leader for and what he intends to do. I hope those who have spent years scrutinising tories apply the same scrutiny to Starmer. I have no issue with people criticising Starmer’s actions. Those (not you) calling him a “toff” or saying he is from some silver spooned upbringing though are wrong. I have the lovely position of not needing to vote Labour to get the tories out where I live. So i will certainly be scrutinising Starmer on here from a relatively objective position. I am expecting to be significantly let down by his manifesto but I live in hope.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Apr 21, 2024 18:13:10 GMT
So you want someone born working class who doesn’t succeed or do well to move up a class to lead our country!? How would that even work!? Does “doing well” have to mean being a millionaire? Is there no middle ground? Could it actually not just be someone who is, for example, a small business owner that isn’t entrenched in the gluttony of the 1%? If Starmer was looking to make policies that his voting base wanted, it would be less of a big deal. However, he isn’t. He’s just another Tory. Largely due to property values there are something like 3 million millionaires in the UK - the idea that they should all be 'entrenched in gluttony' is nonsensical. Starmer would undoubtedly be considerably wealthier than he is had he continued in Legal practise rather than choosing a Public position (DPP) - though may still be "Mr". Criticise his policies, his conduct in the HOC or his performance at PMQ's by all means but trying to discredit him just because he's not some flat capped pigeon fancier just seems to me to be laced with bitterness rather than having any relevance.
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Post by cvillestokie on Apr 21, 2024 19:06:38 GMT
Does “doing well” have to mean being a millionaire? Is there no middle ground? Could it actually not just be someone who is, for example, a small business owner that isn’t entrenched in the gluttony of the 1%? If Starmer was looking to make policies that his voting base wanted, it would be less of a big deal. However, he isn’t. He’s just another Tory. But what if that small business owner does well and makes lots of money? Are they not fit to run the country then? Let’s check Starmer’s policy announcements: Vat on private school fees - definitely not tory Nationalised green energy company - definitely not tory Changes to non-dom rules to clamp down on tax avoiders - definitely not a typical tory policy Windfall tax on energy companies- definitely not a typically tory policy So the facts don’t back you up. Starmer comes from a less privileged background than Corbyn and has been extremely successful. That is not a reason for him not to lead our country, quite the contrary. Or would you prefer a far less successful former barrister, like Suella Braverman, to run the country because she isn’t as successful as Starmer in her day job? Or someone undoubtedly working class like Lee Anderson? And this is a good list of polices and statements that put him directly in line with the Tory party: www.politico.eu/article/keir-starmer-labour-party-uk-election-u-turns/. We’ll see how long his green energy investment plan lasts - amp.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/07/keir-starmer-to-announce-scaling-back-of-28bn-green-investment-planI just don’t expect anything from him other than Tory-lite.
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 21, 2024 19:11:25 GMT
But what if that small business owner does well and makes lots of money? Are they not fit to run the country then? Let’s check Starmer’s policy announcements: Vat on private school fees - definitely not tory Nationalised green energy company - definitely not tory Changes to non-dom rules to clamp down on tax avoiders - definitely not a typical tory policy Windfall tax on energy companies- definitely not a typically tory policy So the facts don’t back you up. Starmer comes from a less privileged background than Corbyn and has been extremely successful. That is not a reason for him not to lead our country, quite the contrary. Or would you prefer a far less successful former barrister, like Suella Braverman, to run the country because she isn’t as successful as Starmer in her day job? Or someone undoubtedly working class like Lee Anderson? And this is a good list of polices and statements that put him directly in line with the Tory party: www.politico.eu/article/keir-starmer-labour-party-uk-election-u-turns/. We’ll see how long his green energy investment plan lasts - amp.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/07/keir-starmer-to-announce-scaling-back-of-28bn-green-investment-planI just don’t expect anything from him other than Tory-lite. So criticise him for that, not for his success in his career or for being a toff.
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Post by wannabee on Apr 21, 2024 19:26:25 GMT
Was it not Yvette Cooper who introduced fit to work tests which have resulted in many disabled people being refused benefits? Let's talk about some of the things Labour did under Blair (no i havent quoted every tweet from this thread. Less tban 20% are below):
I think there's a bit of recent bias being applied when it comes to Tony Blairs reign. Wasn't so long ago that Blair wanted to withdraw from parts of the EHCR - www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tony-blair-labour-asylum-echr-b2470463.htmlLet's not forget when Starmer listed 3 ex pms he wanted to emulate, 2 of those were Blair and Thatcher. Id be here all day all day if I replied to everyone of the apparent crimes you've linked that the Blair Government committed. I'll just reply to the first two I. Jack Straw/Immigrants: Jack Straw introduced in 2000 a system, obviously to deter Refugees, a payment of £10 Cash and Vouchers of between £18.95 and £26.54 per person per week, today a Refugee receives £49.18 per person per week. Neither are overly generous but the former is more so. What Straw didn't do as Home Secretary was have have Refugees waiting in Limbo for years waiting for a decision so they can get on with their lives, get a job and no longer need a subsistence payment 2. Harriet Harman/Single Mother Benefits: Damned if you do and Damned if you Don't. The 1997 Labour Manifesto pledged they would stick with previous Conservative Chancellor Ken Clarke spending limits for two years and this measure was part of the Labour manifesto pledge which people are saying should be kept. It was only for new applicants so anyone already receiving the benefit wouldn't lose it. It was an ideological measure designed as part of the "Welfare to Work Program" coupled with Family Credits as a means to lift people out of poverty through work. I only read the headline of the tweets so I wonder if it also mentioned that Brown/Harman juggled the Budget figures keeping to the limits but provided a new £300M for Childcare as part of the strategy.
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Post by wannabee on Apr 21, 2024 19:41:58 GMT
He attended a selective state school. His mother was a nurse and his father a toolmaker and both Labour party members. He was a man of the people, and he did very well at school and went to Leeds university and then Oxford for a postgrad and he became a barrister and did extremely well, ending up as Head of the CPS. Class isn’t about how much money you earn and how successful you are. Or are you saying nobody who is working class can be successful and be paid a lot? What about most footballers? Are they upper class? Wayne Rooney? Lord Alan Sugar? Are they upper class? Who employed his father as a toolmaker? Starmer's Father was a one man band self-employed Toolmaker Not the owner of a Toolmaking Company some mischievous idiots try to make out
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Post by cvillestokie on Apr 21, 2024 19:51:21 GMT
So criticise him for that, not for his success in his career or for being a toff. I think that they are linked but fine, I will try to stick to criticizing him for being a duplicitous politician who is only likely to get into power because the Tory party is in such a shambles right now.
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Post by wannabee on Apr 21, 2024 19:59:54 GMT
So you want someone born working class who doesn’t succeed or do well to move up a class to lead our country!? How would that even work!? Does “doing well” have to mean being a millionaire? Is there no middle ground? Could it actually not just be someone who is, for example, a small business owner that isn’t entrenched in the gluttony of the 1%? If Starmer was looking to make policies that his voting base wanted, it would be less of a big deal. However, he isn’t. He’s just another Tory. As has been noted Starmer is definitely from Working Class background and was the first in his Family to attend University, I think you can relate to that if I'm not wrong. He qualified and worked as a Barrister for almost 30 years which carries a hefty salary and 6 of those as Head of CPS which by convention on retirement is given an automatic Knighthood. His wife working as a NHS Consultant would also have increased the Family Coffers Continuing his Public Service he left the CPS to seek Election as an MP at a much reduced salary in 2014 Included in the estimate of his Wealth is he lives in a terraced house in Islington worth about £1M near neighbour to Corbyn who lives in a similar property I really don't understand the mystery, Starmer is from a working class family and through his own efforts, not through patronage or from knowing the right people has had a very successful career. Should he becomes PM I hope he continues his hard work on behalf of the Country
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Post by gawa on Apr 22, 2024 0:19:54 GMT
Who employed his father as a toolmaker? Starmer's Father was a one man band self-employed Toolmaker Not the owner of a Toolmaking Company some mischievous idiots try to make out It's disputed but toolmaker or factory owner makes no difference to me. It was oggy or seymour who brought his dads occupation and working class credentials into the conversation.
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Post by wannabee on Apr 22, 2024 1:30:27 GMT
Starmer's Father was a one man band self-employed Toolmaker Not the owner of a Toolmaking Company some mischievous idiots try to make out It's disputed but toolmaker or factory owner makes no difference to me. It was oggy or seymour who brought his dads occupation and working class credentials into the conversation. It was Oggy that said Starmer's father was a Toolmaker You asked "Who employed his father as a toolmaker?" I supplied the answer that Starmer's Father Rodney was a Self-employed Toolmaker In his "Expose" Biography of Starmer called "Red Knight" written by Lord Ashcroft he created an innuendo that the "Company" that Rodney operated called Oxted Tool Co was a bigger operation that its actual was just Rodney although I suppose careful of libel Laws went on to say he had no evidence of this This is the same Lord Ashcroft that recently wrote an "Expose" Biography on Angela Rayner called "Red Queen". For such a "creative" writer his choice of titles shows a distinct lack of creativity You may not be surprised to know that the Daily Fail serialised both Weighty Tomes and that quite a few of its readership believe Tax Dodging Lord Ashcroft's Bullshit
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Apr 22, 2024 7:00:42 GMT
Starmer's Father was a one man band self-employed Toolmaker Not the owner of a Toolmaking Company some mischievous idiots try to make out It's disputed but toolmaker or factory owner makes no difference to me. It was oggy or seymour who brought his dads occupation and working class credentials into the conversation. Only in response to your question 'Who employed his father?". Strange question to ask about something you have no interest in.
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