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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 16, 2017 12:57:38 GMT
The 3-4-3 presumably makes it all a lot more fluid, as it's more like playing with two number 10s than wingers? Which two would be the first choice number 10s? I'm assuming Shaqiri is one? Where does the other one of the three play? Are they dropping into midfield, playing upfront or are we expecting them to be happy with a bit-part bench role? Yeah, Shaqiri plus one you'd have thought. I think they're probably the easiest positions to rotate in, though whether they'll accept that is another question. As is what it means for Ramadan.
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Post by GeneralFaye on Aug 16, 2017 13:00:04 GMT
I bet Hughes is secretly praying for injuries and suspensions so a team is forced on him.
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Post by jezzascfc on Aug 16, 2017 13:00:31 GMT
Which two would be the first choice number 10s? I'm assuming Shaqiri is one? Where does the other one of the three play? Are they dropping into midfield, playing upfront or are we expecting them to be happy with a bit-part bench role? Yeah, Shaqiri plus one you'd have thought. I think they're probably the easiest positions to rotate in, though whether they'll accept that is another question. As is what it means for Ramadan. If I was Ramadan I would be practising crossing with my left foot every day in training in the hope I could convince Hughes to play me at left wing back, the only really weak spot available in the team now, as surely Choupo and Jese have blocked his options further up the field?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Aug 16, 2017 13:02:05 GMT
Yeah it's been discussed many times mate. The big issue seems to be, how do you play the three of them behind a striker (Jese on the left, Choupo as the '10' and Shaqiri on the right) and still play three at the back? You can't ... it's impossible. The main consensus of opinion seemed to be that Choupo would be our Walters replacement and find himself more likely on the bench. Not sure if that will actually happen though. It's interesting, based from scholes comments about it being really difficult to convince choupo as he wanted CL football do we really expect him to be a rotation player ? He must of been given some assurance that he is a first choice player. I'm convinced that Jese has been offered to us and we jumped without really thinking about it not that I'm complaining the more quality the better for these reasons I can't see another striker coming in. Shaq has to be 1st choice every week. Jese as a loan you'd expect him to be playing Choupo must have been given assurances as above. Is it bera and Bojan that drop out this weekend with choupo playing as the main striker And Jese and Shaq behind him ? The only thing that makes sense to me. Agree with all of that, it's never stopped Sparky before though ... collecting players and then worrying how to form a team out of them later. Jese has never lead the line, when he has played up front it's been more as a false 9, so as you say the only way he can crow bar them all in and keep a back three is to play Choupo as the main striker. Thing is though, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a big money striker come in before the window shuts.
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Post by jezzascfc on Aug 16, 2017 13:04:45 GMT
It's interesting, based from scholes comments about it being really difficult to convince choupo as he wanted CL football do we really expect him to be a rotation player ? He must of been given some assurance that he is a first choice player. I'm convinced that Jese has been offered to us and we jumped without really thinking about it not that I'm complaining the more quality the better for these reasons I can't see another striker coming in. Shaq has to be 1st choice every week. Jese as a loan you'd expect him to be playing Choupo must have been given assurances as above. Is it bera and Bojan that drop out this weekend with choupo playing as the main striker And Jese and Shaq behind him ? The only thing that makes sense to me. Agree with all of that, it's never stopped Sparky before ... collecting players and then worrying how to form a team out of them. Jese has never lead the line, when he has played up front it's been more as a false 9, so as you say the only way he can crow bar them all in and keep a back three is to play Choupo as the main striker. Thing is though, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a big money striker come in before the window shuts. Me neither, given the several links to strikers that have been doing the rounds, so that would leave him with a selection dilemma. I think we have been saving our money with freebies and loans for one big "swoop" in search of goals, spending 20m or so in the process.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Aug 16, 2017 13:06:23 GMT
It's interesting, based from scholes comments about it being really difficult to convince choupo as he wanted CL football do we really expect him to be a rotation player ? He must of been given some assurance that he is a first choice player. I'm convinced that Jese has been offered to us and we jumped without really thinking about it not that I'm complaining the more quality the better for these reasons I can't see another striker coming in. Shaq has to be 1st choice every week. Jese as a loan you'd expect him to be playing Choupo must have been given assurances as above. Is it bera and Bojan that drop out this weekend with choupo playing as the main striker And Jese and Shaq behind him ? The only thing that makes sense to me. Agree with all of that, it's never stopped Sparky before though ... collecting players and then worrying how to form a team out of them later. Jese has never lead the line, when he has played up front it's been more as a false 9, so as you say the only way he can crow bar them all in and keep a back three is to play Choupo as the main striker. Thing is though, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a big money striker come in before the window shuts. And the consensus for that is a big target man. Which leaves 3-4-3 where exactly?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2017 13:06:39 GMT
Why do we always sign players who are names but past their best?Is it Hughes arrogance that he can bring something out of them others can't. he's done it once -with Arnie otherwise all falures. its a bizarre policy. What about young players on the up? Should we of made a bid when he was playing champions league football for Madrid ? Perhaps we should have got Pericard when he was at Juventus
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Post by jezzascfc on Aug 16, 2017 13:09:36 GMT
Agree with all of that, it's never stopped Sparky before though ... collecting players and then worrying how to form a team out of them later. Jese has never lead the line, when he has played up front it's been more as a false 9, so as you say the only way he can crow bar them all in and keep a back three is to play Choupo as the main striker. Thing is though, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a big money striker come in before the window shuts. And the consensus for that is a big target man. Which leaves 3-4-3 where exactly? If it is effectively 3-4-2-1 like at Everton, it would leave Saido and two of Jese/Choupo/Bojan (as Shaq must start, if fit) on the bench.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Aug 16, 2017 13:12:10 GMT
And the consensus for that is a big target man. Which leaves 3-4-3 where exactly? If it is effectively 3-4-2-1 like at Everton, it would leave Saido and two of Jese/Choupo/Bojan (as Shaq must start, if fit) on the bench. We're almost resurrecting (Hoddle's was it?) Christmas tree formation
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Post by mosquito on Aug 16, 2017 13:12:48 GMT
I'm sure this would have been covered before but I only dive in & out of the thread so have most probably missed it, but where do we now stand with 'who plays where?' Does Jesé join Choupo-Moting & Sobhi on the left, leaving only Shaqiri on the right, or can one (both) of these new signings also play on the right? (Or central if we're going back to the old formation?) I've also seen a few posts about the possibility of Jesé, or more likely Choupo-Moting playing upfront, how likely is this? I'm assuming that both Choupo-Moting & Jesé have come here to play rather than sit on the bench, so how are we fitting them both in? Yeah it's been discussed many times mate. The big issue seems to be, how do you play the three of them behind a striker (Jese on the left, Choupo as the '10' and Shaqiri on the right) and still play three at the back? You can't ... it's impossible. The main consensus of opinion seemed to be that Choupo would be our Walters replacement and find himself more likely on the bench. Not sure if that will actually happen though. Didn't Mark Hughes say Choupo could play anywhere across the front, left right and centre
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Post by Paul Spencer on Aug 16, 2017 13:13:23 GMT
Agree with all of that, it's never stopped Sparky before though ... collecting players and then worrying how to form a team out of them later. Jese has never lead the line, when he has played up front it's been more as a false 9, so as you say the only way he can crow bar them all in and keep a back three is to play Choupo as the main striker. Thing is though, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a big money striker come in before the window shuts. And the consensus for that is a big target man. Which leaves 3-4-3 where exactly? My guess is that he hasnt even thought about it yet. If the situation arises meaning that Jese, Choupo and Shaqiri are all fit and in form, then I would suspect he would do one of two things, either stick one of those three on the bench or ditch the back three and revert to a back four with either Bruno at left back or Zouma at right back. That's assuming that all three centre backs are fit and in form of course.
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Post by Onneravineet on Aug 16, 2017 13:14:35 GMT
Ok, just the opinion of my Spanish colleague, a HUGE Real Madrid fan, on our new signing. Cut and Pasted...
In a 4-3-3 he plays all the time as an outside left attacking striker like Ronaldo. This is his position and it is where he is most comfortable playing in his role for the team. Playing in this position he is good with the counterattack. He is a always very direct player and will shoot most times more than he pass.
In a 4-4-2 he can play behind the striker but I think maybe you not have him for this reason. All the time he wants to play outside left and in the Premier League my friend he would need to be stronger.
He is an amazing player and before his injury we all believed he would be Ronaldo's replacement. They all loved him my friends.
He is good before injured in Real was really good even was scoring more than Ronaldo but then he got injury and thats it. In las palmas is nice weather, partys, etc... i think english footbal will change him for good.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Aug 16, 2017 13:14:39 GMT
Yeah it's been discussed many times mate. The big issue seems to be, how do you play the three of them behind a striker (Jese on the left, Choupo as the '10' and Shaqiri on the right) and still play three at the back? You can't ... it's impossible. The main consensus of opinion seemed to be that Choupo would be our Walters replacement and find himself more likely on the bench. Not sure if that will actually happen though. Didn't Mark Hughes say Choupo could play anywhere across the front, left right and centre Yeah he can mate.
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Post by thebet365 on Aug 16, 2017 13:15:57 GMT
It's interesting, based from scholes comments about it being really difficult to convince choupo as he wanted CL football do we really expect him to be a rotation player ? He must of been given some assurance that he is a first choice player. If he'd signed 6 weeks ago then I'd believe them comments but only signing for a club on 11th August after being a free agent since May doesn't smack of being in demand. He may of wanted CL footy but it doesn't look like any clubs with CL footy were interested. I can see him being involved in most games but not a definite starter.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Aug 16, 2017 13:16:38 GMT
Ok, just the opinion of my Spanish colleague, a HUGE Real Madrid fan, on our new signing. Cut and Pasted... In a 4-3-3 he plays all the time as an outside left attacking striker like Ronaldo. This is his position and it is where he is most comfortable playing in his role for the team. Playing in this position he is good with the counterattack. He is a always very direct player and will shoot most times more than he pass. In a 4-4-2 he can play behind the striker but I think maybe you not have him for this reason. All the time he wants to play outside left and in the Premier League my friend he would need to be stronger. He is an amazing player and before his injury we all believed he would be Ronaldo's replacement. They all loved him my friends. He is good before injured in Real was really good even was scoring more than Ronaldo but then he got injury and thats it. In las palmas is nice weather, partys, etc... i think english footbal will change him for good. Yeah I'm convinced (as I said earlier) that Hughes will play him on the left - it's his best position.
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Post by nott1 on Aug 16, 2017 13:17:36 GMT
It's interesting, based from scholes comments about it being really difficult to convince choupo as he wanted CL football do we really expect him to be a rotation player ? He must of been given some assurance that he is a first choice player. If he'd signed 6 weeks ago then I'd believe them comments but only signing for a club on 11th August after being a free agent since May doesn't smack of being in demand. He may of wanted CL footy but it doesn't look like any clubs with CL footy were interested. I can see him being involved in most games but not a definite starter. CL here we come!
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 16, 2017 13:17:39 GMT
Agree with all of that, it's never stopped Sparky before though ... collecting players and then worrying how to form a team out of them later. Jese has never lead the line, when he has played up front it's been more as a false 9, so as you say the only way he can crow bar them all in and keep a back three is to play Choupo as the main striker. Thing is though, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a big money striker come in before the window shuts. And the consensus for that is a big target man. Which leaves 3-4-3 where exactly? It's what the 3-4-3 needs really. Someone with some presence to hold the ball up while the creative players buzz around him.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Aug 16, 2017 13:21:58 GMT
I thought he favoured 3-4-2-1 too. Gets more creativity out of Shaq. There's a lot of competition for places, especially again in the attacking midfield roles.
A lot will depend on how Bera performs and if Johnson/Diouf and Peters/Tymon can provide attacking width.
Also it's a squad game over a hard season. I don't see Shaq, Jese, Choupo or Bojan being available for 30 plus games each.
I suspect Choupo might be in for Bojan against Arsenal - a bit more of a physical presence, hopefully getting close to Bera when Shaq has the ball.
Jese will probably get a hero's welcome and cameo off the bench.
Exciting times ahead as it all shakes up though. I think we've made some great signings for this season, although I'm most excited about the 2 on loan.
Somebody's probably already said it, but wasn't it Terry Venables who used the Christmas Tree formation for England at Euro 96?
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Post by geekenny on Aug 16, 2017 13:22:26 GMT
If it is effectively 3-4-2-1 like at Everton, it would leave Saido and two of Jese/Choupo/Bojan (as Shaq must start, if fit) on the bench. We're almost resurrecting (Hoddle's was it?) Christmas tree formation Venables
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Post by Clayton Wood on Aug 16, 2017 13:22:52 GMT
And the consensus for that is a big target man. Which leaves 3-4-3 where exactly? It's what the 3-4-3 needs really. Someone with some presence to hold the ball up while the creative players buzz around him. But when the penny drops that he can't play Bera alone up front but off the 'target' man then it'll evolve into 4-4-2 or more likely 4-4-1-1 and that's where we came in.
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Aug 16, 2017 13:23:05 GMT
Yeah it's been discussed many times mate. The big issue seems to be, how do you play the three of them behind a striker (Jese on the left, Choupo as the '10' and Shaqiri on the right) and still play three at the back? You can't ... it's impossible. The main consensus of opinion seemed to be that Choupo would be our Walters replacement and find himself more likely on the bench. Not sure if that will actually happen though. I think that will happen. More importantly though I think he's either kicking Berahino up the arse as both Jese and Choupo can play there or preparing for him to fail as he now has options including Crouch When you say goth new guys can play up front do you not take into account the fact that neither seesm to be a regular goalscorer which is what we need so in that regard they would be no different to Berahino ?
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Aug 16, 2017 13:24:14 GMT
So going off the last page or so's posts (Back 3 all need to play, Shaqiri must play, Jesé is deffo left side, we told Choup he'd be playing etc...) It seems that our team for Arsenal will be...
Butland; Zouma, Shawcross, Indi; Diouf, Allen, Fletcher, Pieters; Shaqiri, Jesé; Choupo.
Would everyone be happy with that?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 16, 2017 13:26:26 GMT
It's what the 3-4-3 needs really. Someone with some presence to hold the ball up while the creative players buzz around him. But when the penny drops that he can't play Bera alone up front but off the 'target' man then it'll evolve into 4-4-2 or more likely 4-4-1-1 and that's where we came in. Oh he'll have to play the target man instead of Bera.
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Aug 16, 2017 13:26:53 GMT
How long do we have to give these new lads to settle in before we can expect much from them ? Also whilst they are settling into English football who is going to score the goals , we really need a premiership forward or some kind with experience of the league unless we are to rely on Crouch again
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Post by Paul Spencer on Aug 16, 2017 13:27:04 GMT
I guess it's going to end up looking something like this:
Butland
Zouma Shawcross Bruno
Diouf Allen Fletcher Pieters
Shaqiri Jesse
NEW TARGET MAN
Grant, Cameron, Berahino, Choupo, Adam, Tymon, Crouch
Can't even find a place for Ramadan or Bojan on the bench, we are so overloaded in that position now.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 16, 2017 13:27:07 GMT
So going off the last page or so's posts (Back 3 all need to play, Shaqiri must play, Jesé is deffo left side, we told Choup he'd be playing etc...) It seems that our team for Arsenal will be... Butland; Zouma, Shawcross, Indi; Diouf, Allen, Fletcher, Pieters; Shaqiri, Jesé; Choupo. Would everyone be happy with that? I think he'll stick with Berahino until he can sign another out and out centre forward.
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Post by Onneravineet on Aug 16, 2017 13:27:28 GMT
Ok, just the opinion of my Spanish colleague, a HUGE Real Madrid fan, on our new signing. Cut and Pasted... In a 4-3-3 he plays all the time as an outside left attacking striker like Ronaldo. This is his position and it is where he is most comfortable playing in his role for the team. Playing in this position he is good with the counterattack. He is a always very direct player and will shoot most times more than he pass. In a 4-4-2 he can play behind the striker but I think maybe you not have him for this reason. All the time he wants to play outside left and in the Premier League my friend he would need to be stronger. He is an amazing player and before his injury we all believed he would be Ronaldo's replacement. They all loved him my friends. He is good before injured in Real was really good even was scoring more than Ronaldo but then he got injury and thats it. In las palmas is nice weather, partys, etc... i think english footbal will change him for good. Yeah I'm convinced (as I said earlier) that Hughes will play him on the left - it's his best position. So Paul the hope then is to use Sobhi as a LWB and Maxim up top? From what I saw at Everton I would say that thatbhe has enough presence to play in that position for us.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2017 13:27:47 GMT
So going off the last page or so's posts (Back 3 all need to play, Shaqiri must play, Jesé is deffo left side, we told Choup he'd be playing etc...) It seems that our team for Arsenal will be... Butland; Zouma, Shawcross, Indi; Diouf, Allen, Fletcher, Pieters; Shaqiri, Jesé; Choupo. Would everyone be happy with that? Yes. Drop the problem child.
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Post by jimmygscfc on Aug 16, 2017 13:27:51 GMT
Playing Zouma or Indi at full back would be bonkers IMHO. However, if we go to a central two I can't see Ryan missing out.
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Post by FullerMagic on Aug 16, 2017 13:29:02 GMT
Assuming we do see a target-man type come in as the new undisputed first-choice No.9 (and assuming, as seems almost 100% that Shaq's got one of the slots behind the striker nailed-down)
The other one is between:
Jese (who'll be expecting to play every game) Choupo Bojan Sobhi Verlinden (who'll have to go on loan)
It'll be interesting to see where Crouch stands should this new striker come in - and Bojan does seem the most vulnerable of the others, as Sobhi, despite seemingly falling down to the fringes of things, has got the ink on a 5-yr deal drying.
That's not to even mention Berahino. Not sure a super-sub role would suit him?
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