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Post by NG4POTTERS on Jul 12, 2017 10:10:38 GMT
The thing is it's a totally different scenario to one of us changing our job for more money. Yes he has to make a living in a short career but he's in an entertainment industry that pays him handsomely and where he is adored by thousands. That's what makes it different from 'normal' people with 'normal' jobs. What we are talking about in essence is loyalty. A trait that is very rare in most walks of life and especially so in football. I don't see much difference. He'll be adored by thousands at his next club , I doubt he'll be thinking about our fans. I'm resigned to the fact that footballers and to a degree human beings in general are inherently greedy mercenary selfish bastards. H We pulled him out of the troublesome wayward player pile and have given him the platform to make a name for himself, earn wonderful money and be made for life. In an ideal world we would receive that loyalty back but its just a shirt to him. He's done bloody well in it and i'd hate to see him playing for one of our mid table rivals but the next shirt is just that. To us its our blood. To him its red, white and full of pound signs.
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Post by Dallas Cowboy on Jul 12, 2017 10:12:01 GMT
The thing is it's a totally different scenario to one of us changing our job for more money. Yes he has to make a living in a short career but he's in an entertainment industry that pays him handsomely and where he is adored by thousands. That's what makes it different from 'normal' people with 'normal' jobs. What we are talking about in essence is loyalty. A trait that is very rare in most walks of life and especially so in football. I don't see much difference. He'll be adored by thousands at his next club , I doubt he'll be thinking about our fans. I'm resigned to the fact that footballers and to a degree human beings in general are inherently greedy mercenary selfish bastards. H You need to mix with different people.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2017 10:12:24 GMT
Shaqiri is also represented by his brother isn't he?
Wonder what fun we're going to have when that one comes around?
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Post by metalhead on Jul 12, 2017 10:19:39 GMT
If Arnautovic wants to come out and say 'OK I want to move for more money and I hope a deal can be worked out between the clubs but I disassociate myself from my idiot brother's toxic bullshit from yesterday which was intended solely to benefit him and myself and weaken the hand of the club who gave me a massive contract 12 months ago' then I might just get on board with you. In the absence of that Arnie can get fucked. Brilliant.
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Post by metalhead on Jul 12, 2017 10:20:16 GMT
Shaqiri is also represented by his brother isn't he? Wonder what fun we're going to have when that one comes around? By Erdin Shaqiri.
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Post by RAF on Jul 12, 2017 10:20:19 GMT
What we are talking about in essence is loyalty. A trait that is very rare in most walks of life and especially so in football. I don't see much difference. He'll be adored by thousands at his next club , I doubt he'll be thinking about our fans. I'm resigned to the fact that footballers and to a degree human beings in general are inherently greedy mercenary selfish bastards. H That's my realisation too RAF and I think why I'm quite so disappointed by this Arnie situation. I love football and that will never change, but I'm finding it harder and harder to like football these days. Shame he's our best player and I like him. It would be a lot easier to not give a fuck if he was shit. H
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Post by Olgrligm on Jul 12, 2017 10:23:54 GMT
Is that really a problem? We've got loads of money. Well yeah? Isn't like we're going get £5m for him, £25 is a sizable fee for a club like us. I suppose it depends on whether we're interested in just cashing in straight away for a relatively paltry fee (c.f. Yannick Bolasie's £30,000,000 move to Everton in last year's slightly saner market), or taking a stand against player and agent. We had Hanover do it to us with Diouf when he had only one year left on his contract, and Kiev do it to us with Yarmolenko. Does Arnie (and his brother) really want to be left with the prospect of four years of youth league football while his career dwindles away?
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Post by nott1 on Jul 12, 2017 10:37:28 GMT
1st of all we don't know if West ham will be his destination, they may have just made his mind up about leaving by putting the bid in. But if it is West Ham, Payet flourished in his position just over a year ago, and the whole world was gushing about how Bilic had turned West ham around and turned Payet into a World beater. They then had a shit season last year, wouldn't be hard to Sell Arnie the dream of doing what Payet did. London, Shiny new stadium, media darlings, wage rise. Do you think that white elephant of a stadium and the fact a few meatheads in Wapping support them is enough to turn his head? Payet left in part because of their lack of ambition! And he was very much a statement signing at the time, which Arnie wouldn't be. White Elephant? They have filled it two years running with 52000 season ticket holders!
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 12, 2017 10:39:01 GMT
Do you think that white elephant of a stadium and the fact a few meatheads in Wapping support them is enough to turn his head? Payet left in part because of their lack of ambition! And he was very much a statement signing at the time, which Arnie wouldn't be. White Elephant? They have filled it two years running with 52000 season ticket holders! They hate it though don't they? It's been a completely miserable experience for them so far.
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Post by RAF on Jul 12, 2017 10:45:55 GMT
What we are talking about in essence is loyalty. A trait that is very rare in most walks of life and especially so in football. I don't see much difference. He'll be adored by thousands at his next club , I doubt he'll be thinking about our fans. I'm resigned to the fact that footballers and to a degree human beings in general are inherently greedy mercenary selfish bastards. H You need to mix with different people. I do that daily. H
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Jul 12, 2017 10:46:23 GMT
Is Arnie really smart enough to represent himself? I didn't say he needs to be smart enough to represent himself did I? He only needs to be smart enough to employ an agent that wants what he wants and I'm assuming he's capable of doing that. Yes Arnie employed his brother as his agent. Part of his job is to represent and negotiate (speak) on the players behalf. If Arnie wasn't happy or agree with his agents statements he should either speak out himself and clarify or fire his agent. An agency relationship is usually a binding one and Arnies silence here can be (by default) taken as agreement with his agents representations.
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Post by RichJonesy on Jul 12, 2017 11:03:00 GMT
You have to be really old to get this joke! That's good then. Makes me feel younger!!
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Post by itsajoytobeapotter on Jul 12, 2017 11:07:16 GMT
Ah right so Arnie has absolutely no say over who represents him then? THEY (and that's the important bit) are treating our club with complete and utter contempt and they BOTH should be afforded the same from us when the the appropriate time arises. Did I say that? I'm saying it is clear that Arnie's brother is a huge influence over the decision making process. For all we know, it really wouldn't surprise me if Arnie's brother said to him "stand over the other side of the pitch away from your team mates, making sure all the cameras catch you acting like a petulant cock" on Monday afternoon. That wouldn't be anything out of the ordinary. It was Beckham's agent who told him to keep a beany hat on at training after shaving his head, so he could do a big reveal afterwards in front of the press. The 'transfer injury', as I call it, is probably down to Arnie himself, but it's quite clear that his brother is doing a lot more of the donkey work than Arnie in this. I think Arnie is to some degree following orders, while perhaps chasing the paper. Granted but at the end of the day it's the player who signs the contract. I'm sorry but I don't buy this "a big boy made me do it" stuff. If Arnie wants to delegate his career to his agent then Arnie deserves all he gets. Delegating your career to an agent is what 97% of footballers do these days? www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/football-agents-manipulative-groom-players-2255473I can't think of a single football player in many years who hasn't had an agent. Agreed but it's still the player who takes all the shit not the agent. Which is just how it should be.
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Post by RAF on Jul 12, 2017 11:10:53 GMT
Did I say that? I'm saying it is clear that Arnie's brother is a huge influence over the decision making process. For all we know, it really wouldn't surprise me if Arnie's brother said to him "stand over the other side of the pitch away from your team mates, making sure all the cameras catch you acting like a petulant cock" on Monday afternoon. That wouldn't be anything out of the ordinary. It was Beckham's agent who told him to keep a beany hat on at training after shaving his head, so he could do a big reveal afterwards in front of the press. The 'transfer injury', as I call it, is probably down to Arnie himself, but it's quite clear that his brother is doing a lot more of the donkey work than Arnie in this. I think Arnie is to some degree following orders, while perhaps chasing the paper. Delegating your career to an agent is what 97% of footballers do these days? www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/football-agents-manipulative-groom-players-2255473I can't think of a single football player in many years who hasn't had an agent. Agreed but it's still the player who takes all the shit not the agent. Which is just how it should be. Paul Scholes was the last player I heard of not using an agent. H
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Post by TinkerT on Jul 12, 2017 11:27:04 GMT
He was the problem when Arnie signed his extension and the messing about was because he wanted more "agents fees" i feel the current situation is a combination of this again, and Arnie not being major popular amongst the majority of our players, and he's played on this getting in Arnie's head. He's just looking for a move to earn him a shed load of cash in agents fees... AGAIN. Arnautovic is extremely popular amongst the players Not true. Only around 25% actually get on with him.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Jul 12, 2017 12:04:48 GMT
Think we need to cut the toxic stuff until we see how it plays out he might just be in our first 11 at Everton , certainly if he played for Spurs he wouldn't be going anywhere until 5.00 on deadline day but he might just kiss and make up as we really hold the cards here .
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 12, 2017 12:08:08 GMT
Arnautovic is extremely popular amongst the players Not true. Only around 25% actually get on with him. Who are the ones who don't then?
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Post by stantheman on Jul 12, 2017 12:11:33 GMT
Did he take a genuine knock on Monday night, or is he after a convenient excuse not to wear the shirt again?
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Post by lordb on Jul 12, 2017 12:11:55 GMT
Think we need to cut the toxic stuff until we see how it plays out he might just be in our first 11 at Everton , certainly if he played for Spurs he wouldn't be going anywhere until 5.00 on deadline day but he might just kiss and make up as we really hold the cards here . I wouldn't play him (if a move hasn't been done) as strongly suspect he will down tools. Ramadam instead please this situation is why the transfer window should shut before the season starts
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Post by lordb on Jul 12, 2017 12:12:16 GMT
Did he take a genuine knock on Monday night, or is he after a convenient excuse not to wear the shirt again? whats your money on?
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Jul 12, 2017 12:14:03 GMT
Not true. Only around 25% actually get on with him. Who are the ones who don't then? The other 75% 😉
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Post by Pugsley on Jul 12, 2017 13:00:43 GMT
Its not jealousy in saying Shobhi is a better prospect that Arnie. I genuinely think hes on the same level already Defensively - Shobhi Trickery - Shobhi Crossing - Shobhi Shooting - Arnie Pace - About the same Strength - Arnie Shobhi will end up at a Champions League club in 2 years. Arnie reached that level at Inter Milan but hardly ever featured for them. Its not jealousy just an observation. I dont want Arnie to leave but I think Ramadan can fill his boots quite easily Frankly that is arse gravy.
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Jul 12, 2017 13:02:19 GMT
Its not jealousy in saying Shobhi is a better prospect that Arnie. I genuinely think hes on the same level already Defensively - Shobhi Trickery - Shobhi Crossing - Shobhi Shooting - Arnie Pace - About the same Strength - Arnie Shobhi will end up at a Champions League club in 2 years. Arnie reached that level at Inter Milan but hardly ever featured for them. Its not jealousy just an observation. I dont want Arnie to leave but I think Ramadan can fill his boots quite easily Frankly that is arse gravy. Frankly you bore me senseless
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Post by Pugsley on Jul 12, 2017 13:11:58 GMT
Like all of us you don't know the full story, what was agreed, what's lost in translation etc. but I agree it looks bad. I just don't understand why anyone gets so upset by it. Bloke wants more money to secure his families future - isn't that what we all want? He can go as long as we get a good deal. For me he can stay as well, I really don't care as long as he produces on the pitch. It's do with respect Pugs. Absolutely nothing wrong with a player wanting to improve his lot but we gave him the security of a huge contract just 12 months ago and you don't then turn around and attempt to weaken our negotiating hand with the antics they're trying to pull at the moment. It just shows complete contempt for Stoke City football club. I honestly couldn't give a toss. If we wanted rid of him the club would do all sorts of shit to make it happen. Respect is a two way street IMHO. And to talk about contempt... you could say the same about the club and it's attitude towards its own supporters.
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Post by essexstokey on Jul 12, 2017 13:17:20 GMT
White Elephant? They have filled it two years running with 52000 season ticket holders! They hate it though don't they? It's been a completely miserable experience for them so far. And long may the miserable experience continue for them as long as the tax payer gets money back (which they wont) yet another Boris balls up
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Post by metalhead on Jul 12, 2017 14:02:00 GMT
Did he take a genuine knock on Monday night, or is he after a convenient excuse not to wear the shirt again? Transfer injury.....
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Jul 12, 2017 14:13:26 GMT
I still want to feed his brother through a wood chipper the arrogant prick.
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Post by kustokie on Jul 12, 2017 14:21:26 GMT
My original post was that I don't blame him. I got questioned about why West Ham are much better, So I pointed out it's not the West Ham being better is us going backwards. If us fans are pissed off with things at the moment how can we expect our better players to stay if there's more money on offer elsewhere ? That contract he signed last year wasn't just security for him, it's secured us a transfer fee, he'd of left for free without it. Excellent point that has been overlooked in the hysteria. I have been banging this drum for a while. Renewing a contract simply guarantees the player a certain salary for a certain period of time and increases the resale value of the player, which will decline over time as the expiration of the contract approaches. That's it.
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Post by unknown182 on Jul 12, 2017 14:47:36 GMT
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Post by FullerMagic on Jul 12, 2017 14:50:45 GMT
Shit. This one looks like it's going to drag. We need to get over £20m to keep some self-respect though
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