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Post by riccyfuller93 on Jul 23, 2017 19:39:49 GMT
He was playing at Werder Bremen and he had established himself there. People act like his last club was Inter. He had already proven he had a lot of talent. People are making out like he had fallen to the same level as Etherington and Pennant? Laughable. No, you're using that as a straw man argument. There was never any question about Etherington or Pennant's talent either. If Arnie was smashing it in Bremen, why did we get him for less than three million quid? He was decidedly hit and miss there, to put it kindly. Hughes gambled that the Arnie who ripped it up for Twente could be coaxed out. Because of his reputation and his contract. He was 10x better than Pennant, stop making out like Hughes has turned him into a machine. I'd rather have prime Stoke Pennant than Arnautovic anyway. Much more influential.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Jul 23, 2017 19:40:06 GMT
Talking about the cunt on Talksport transfer tavern now How did it go? My guess would be something like: Presenter: We'll be talking about Arnautovic after the ads so stay tuned. 10 mins of adverts Presenter: so Arnautovic has signed for West Ham Expert (ex London based footballer): yes he has. He should do quite well and West Ham are a big club because they're from London. Presenter: great thanks, now more ads 10 more minutes of ads Both of them said it's a lot of money to pay for a temperamental player like Arnautovic
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Post by aldershotstoke on Jul 23, 2017 19:44:02 GMT
Statement made Want to say a massive thank you to Stoke City Football Club and all my fans who have supported me for the past 4years. You welcomed me and my family to England and this i will never forget. It was an honor beeing part of this amazing team. Wish you all the best in the future! #teamarna Hmm Arnie... Did you forget to mention the bit about Stoke saving your career after you were out on your arse in Germany, not to mention the huge contract extension you signed last year. Go fuck yourself. Prick For me, that'll do. A bizarre transfer mini saga done and dusted. Onwards and upwards.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 23, 2017 19:45:31 GMT
No, you're using that as a straw man argument. There was never any question about Etherington or Pennant's talent either. If Arnie was smashing it in Bremen, why did we get him for less than three million quid? He was decidedly hit and miss there, to put it kindly. Hughes gambled that the Arnie who ripped it up for Twente could be coaxed out. Because of his reputation and his contract. He was 10x better than Pennant, stop making out like Hughes has turned him into a machine. I'd rather have prime Stoke Pennant than Arnautovic anyway. Much more influential. I haven't said Hughes turned him into a machine. I'm saying he helped him turn his career around. Which he did here. I don't see how that can be seriously disputed. You can't stick the boot into Hughes for the players who've failed here and then say the successes are nothing to do with him. Pennant had one good season here and then did what he always does.
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Post by 4kingal on Jul 23, 2017 19:47:27 GMT
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Jul 23, 2017 19:47:27 GMT
Because of his reputation and his contract. He was 10x better than Pennant, stop making out like Hughes has turned him into a machine. I'd rather have prime Stoke Pennant than Arnautovic anyway. Much more influential. I haven't said Hughes turned him into a machine. I'm saying he helped him turn his career around. Which he did here. I don't see how that can be seriously disputed. You can't stick the boot into Hughes for the players who've failed here and then say the successes are nothing to do with him. Pennant had one good season here and then did what he always does. I was arguing that Pulis was the best at it. Obviously he will have had an impact on Arnautovic, but he was already decent in my opinion, I expected him to perform where as with Pennant and Etherington I didn't. And that's because their careers were at a different point to Arnie's. We will have to agree to disagree.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 23, 2017 19:51:55 GMT
I haven't said Hughes turned him into a machine. I'm saying he helped him turn his career around. Which he did here. I don't see how that can be seriously disputed. You can't stick the boot into Hughes for the players who've failed here and then say the successes are nothing to do with him. Pennant had one good season here and then did what he always does. I was arguing that Pulis was the best at it. Obviously he will have had an impact on Arnautovic, but he was already decent in my opinion, I expected him to perform where as with Pennant and Etherington I didn't. And that's because their careers were at a different point to Arnie's. We will have to agree to disagree. I don't understand the suggestion that Etherington and Pennant weren't good players beforehand or what the difference is. Etherington had always been a good player and had been superb the year West Ham got to the cup final, then his personal problems kicked in. Pennant had played for two of the biggest clubs in the country and his talent wasn't in question, just his attitude. And that continued to be the case. Pulis did a fine job with both and Etherington in particular. Arnie's career was going backwards and he was better known for his off-field antics than his on-field ones. That isn't the case anymore thanks to his time with us. He was always a good player and so were the others. They just needed to sort themselves out and get a change of scenery.
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Jul 23, 2017 20:00:21 GMT
I was arguing that Pulis was the best at it. Obviously he will have had an impact on Arnautovic, but he was already decent in my opinion, I expected him to perform where as with Pennant and Etherington I didn't. And that's because their careers were at a different point to Arnie's. We will have to agree to disagree. I don't understand the suggestion that Etherington and Pennant weren't good players beforehand or what the difference is. Etherington had always been a good player and had been superb the year West Ham got to the cup final, then his personal problems kicked in. Pennant had played for two of the biggest clubs in the country and his talent wasn't in question, just his attitude. And that continued to be the case. Pulis did a fine job with both and Etherington in particular. Arnie's career was going backwards and he was better known for his off-field antics than his on-field ones. That isn't the case anymore thanks to his time with us. He was always a good player and so were the others. They just needed to sort themselves out and get a change of scenery. Etherington was 28 when he joined us, and his career looked like it was coming to an end, he was very injury prone. Pennant also was in exile. Arnautovic was young and had heaps of talent, if he didn't sign for us he could've just gone to West Ham and done the exact same. That's the difference I don't know how you can't grasp that. If Arnautovic joined us at 28 from being injury prone and having gambling problems then going on to have a career like Etherington did then fair enough.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 23, 2017 20:06:05 GMT
I don't understand the suggestion that Etherington and Pennant weren't good players beforehand or what the difference is. Etherington had always been a good player and had been superb the year West Ham got to the cup final, then his personal problems kicked in. Pennant had played for two of the biggest clubs in the country and his talent wasn't in question, just his attitude. And that continued to be the case. Pulis did a fine job with both and Etherington in particular. Arnie's career was going backwards and he was better known for his off-field antics than his on-field ones. That isn't the case anymore thanks to his time with us. He was always a good player and so were the others. They just needed to sort themselves out and get a change of scenery. Etherington was 28 when he joined us, and his career looked like it was coming to an end, he was very injury prone. Pennant also was in exile. Arnautovic was young and had heaps of talent, if he didn't sign for us he could've just gone to West Ham and done the exact same. That's the difference I don't know how you can't grasp that. If Arnautovic joined us at 28 from being injury prone and having gambling problems then going on to have a career like Etherington did then fair enough. Or he could have gone to West Ham and absolutely tanked. It's pure speculation isn't it? Arnie's turnaround isn't as spectacular as Etherington's I agree (though he too always had the talent). It is still a turnaround though. Doesn't matter how old you are, if you're going backwards you're going backwards.
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Jul 23, 2017 20:07:26 GMT
Etherington was 28 when he joined us, and his career looked like it was coming to an end, he was very injury prone. Pennant also was in exile. Arnautovic was young and had heaps of talent, if he didn't sign for us he could've just gone to West Ham and done the exact same. That's the difference I don't know how you can't grasp that. If Arnautovic joined us at 28 from being injury prone and having gambling problems then going on to have a career like Etherington did then fair enough. Or he could have gone to West Ham and absolutely tanked. It's pure speculation isn't it? Arnie's turnaround isn't as spectacular as Etherington's I agree (though he too always had the talent). It is still a turnaround though. Doesn't matter how old you are, if you're going backwards you're going backwards. Yes he could've tanked, but chances are he would've been just as good because I personally saw no signs of his career regression, but with Pennant and Etherington there were signs.
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Post by rondogmcmuffin on Jul 23, 2017 20:09:24 GMT
Is this a thank you or an attempt to quell the mass amounts of abuse he thinks he'll get next season?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 23, 2017 20:14:11 GMT
Or he could have gone to West Ham and absolutely tanked. It's pure speculation isn't it? Arnie's turnaround isn't as spectacular as Etherington's I agree (though he too always had the talent). It is still a turnaround though. Doesn't matter how old you are, if you're going backwards you're going backwards. Yes he could've tanked, but chances are he would've been just as good because I personally saw no signs of his career regression, but with Pennant and Etherington there were signs. You don't think his career regressed? He flopped at Inter and wasn't particularly standing out for a mid-table Bundesliga side. They were happy to sell him to us on the cheap. He wasn't playing for them as well as he was to play for us.
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Jul 23, 2017 20:20:12 GMT
Yes he could've tanked, but chances are he would've been just as good because I personally saw no signs of his career regression, but with Pennant and Etherington there were signs. You don't think his career regressed? He flopped at Inter and wasn't particularly standing out for a mid-table Bundesliga side. They were happy to sell him to us on the cheap. He wasn't playing for them as well as he was to play for us. How can he flop after playing 2 games.
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Post by kidcrewbob on Jul 23, 2017 20:23:45 GMT
Is this a thank you or an attempt to quell the mass amounts of abuse he thinks he'll get next season? Just the normal footballer bullshit rhetoric - I was a big Arnie fan and was always first to give him the benefit of the doubt when he had lean spells and some attitude / motivation issues - now he's got a huge price tag hanging round his neck he won't be given such a leeway from his new employers or their fans - so I wish Arnie all the best on a personal level but professionally I hope he tanks and comes to realise the meaning of big fish in a small pond and the value of loyal, mostly unconditional support......
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 23, 2017 20:24:17 GMT
You don't think his career regressed? He flopped at Inter and wasn't particularly standing out for a mid-table Bundesliga side. They were happy to sell him to us on the cheap. He wasn't playing for them as well as he was to play for us. How can he flop after playing 2 games. Are you being serious? He couldn't make any kind of impression on their first team. That in itself is flopping. This was the era he was joyriding in Eto'o's car and had Mourinho saying he had the mind of a child. He failed there.
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Jul 23, 2017 20:26:28 GMT
How can he flop after playing 2 games. Are you being serious? He couldn't make any kind of impression on their first team. That in itself is flopping. This was the era he was joyriding in Eto'o's car and had Mourinho saying he had the mind of a child. He failed there. He literally played 3 games, I'm not judging him on that or on driving Eto'o's car. Hernandez barely started for Man Utd, but he wasn't a flop. Same with Tevez. All great players, just didn't want to be a squad rotation player.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 23, 2017 20:32:32 GMT
Are you being serious? He couldn't make any kind of impression on their first team. That in itself is flopping. This was the era he was joyriding in Eto'o's car and had Mourinho saying he had the mind of a child. He failed there. He literally played 3 games, I'm not judging him on that or on driving Eto'o's car. Hernandez barely started for Man Utd, but he wasn't a flop. Same with Tevez. All great players, just didn't want to be a squad rotation player. Hernandez and Tevez weren't flops, no. Both started loads more than three games and did pretty well for Man Utd, scoring some important goals and contributing to trophy winning seasons. Arnie started three games for Inter and had his manager publicly slating him for his behaviour. You can see how it's not the same, right?
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Jul 23, 2017 20:34:06 GMT
He literally played 3 games, I'm not judging him on that or on driving Eto'o's car. Hernandez barely started for Man Utd, but he wasn't a flop. Same with Tevez. All great players, just didn't want to be a squad rotation player. Hernandez and Tevez weren't flops, no. Both started loads more than three games and did pretty well for Man Utd, scoring some important goals and contributing to trophy winning seasons. Arnie started three games for Inter and had his manager publicly slating him for his behaviour. You can see how it's not the same, right? Balotelli got slated for loads of shit, still a quality player. Arnautovic wasn't played probably because of those reasons. He's not a flop and never has been a flop anywhere.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 23, 2017 20:38:18 GMT
Hernandez and Tevez weren't flops, no. Both started loads more than three games and did pretty well for Man Utd, scoring some important goals and contributing to trophy winning seasons. Arnie started three games for Inter and had his manager publicly slating him for his behaviour. You can see how it's not the same, right? Balotelli got slated for loads of shit, still a quality player. Arnautovic wasn't played probably because of those reasons. He's not a flop and never has been a flop anywhere. You're just arguing for the sake of it now. Whatever the reasons, he failed there. Objectively, he wasn't a success. You can have talent and quality and still fail at a club.
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Jul 23, 2017 20:39:39 GMT
Balotelli got slated for loads of shit, still a quality player. Arnautovic wasn't played probably because of those reasons. He's not a flop and never has been a flop anywhere. You're just arguing for the sake of it now. Whatever the reasons, he failed there. Objectively, he wasn't a success. You can have talent and quality and still fail at a club. How am I arguing for the sake of it? Because I keep replying? You're also doing the same, I already said we have to agree to disagree. I personally feel the impact Pulis made on Pennant and Etherington was more influential than Hughes on Arnie. I don't even like Pulis as a manager, I'm just giving him credit where it's due.
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Post by Block 22 on Jul 23, 2017 20:41:48 GMT
Hernandez and Tevez weren't flops, no. Both started loads more than three games and did pretty well for Man Utd, scoring some important goals and contributing to trophy winning seasons. Arnie started three games for Inter and had his manager publicly slating him for his behaviour. You can see how it's not the same, right? Balotelli got slated for loads of shit, still a quality player. Arnautovic wasn't played probably because of those reasons. He's not a flop and never has been a flop anywhere. riccyfuller93 - we bought Arnautovic for £3million pounds. He wasn't even 5% of the player we sold when we first bought him. We rejuvenated his career. End of story.
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Jul 23, 2017 20:43:12 GMT
Balotelli got slated for loads of shit, still a quality player. Arnautovic wasn't played probably because of those reasons. He's not a flop and never has been a flop anywhere. riccyfuller93 - we bought Arnautovic for £3million pounds. He wasn't even 5% of the player we sold when we first bought him. We rejuvenated his career. End of story. But not as well as Pulis did with Pennant and Etherington. End of story, stick that in your pipe and smoke it.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 23, 2017 20:43:20 GMT
You're just arguing for the sake of it now. Whatever the reasons, he failed there. Objectively, he wasn't a success. You can have talent and quality and still fail at a club. How am I arguing for the sake of it? Because I keep replying? You're also doing the same, I already said we have to agree to disagree. I personally feel the impact Pulis made on Pennant and Etherington was more influential than Hughes on Arnie. I don't even like Pulis as a manager, I'm just giving him credit where it's due. Because you're arguing black is white. Nobody's said Pulis doesn't deserve credit. But it's also a complete fallacy to suggest we've played no part as a club in Arnie's career turnaround or that there wasn't a turnaround in the first place. When you're trying to put a positive spin on his time in Italy you know you're struggling. I'll leave it there.
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Post by iamcliveclarke on Jul 23, 2017 20:44:03 GMT
Why are we still talking about the cnut? We got a good deal, they got someone who will be unplayable for 5 or 6 games a season. Lets move on.
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Jul 23, 2017 20:44:23 GMT
How am I arguing for the sake of it? Because I keep replying? You're also doing the same, I already said we have to agree to disagree. I personally feel the impact Pulis made on Pennant and Etherington was more influential than Hughes on Arnie. I don't even like Pulis as a manager, I'm just giving him credit where it's due. Because you're arguing black is white. Nobody's said Pulis doesn't deserve credit. But it's also a complete fallacy to suggest we've played no part as a club in Arnie's career turnaround or that there wasn't a turnaround in the first place. When you're trying to put a positive spin on his time in Italy you know you're struggling. I'll leave it there. I didn't say we've played no part, It's just he was already decent whereas Pulis took in two players who were regressing and made them great. And no I didn't put a positive spin on it, I just debunked your statement that he was a "flop"
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Post by Block 22 on Jul 23, 2017 20:47:10 GMT
riccyfuller93 - we bought Arnautovic for £3million pounds. He wasn't even 5% of the player we sold when we first bought him. We rejuvenated his career. End of story. But not as well as Pulis did with Pennant and Etherington. End of story, stick that in your pipe and smoke it. Personally, to take a player who hasn't played in English football before, give him a fresh opportunity at the highest level, man manage him accordingly and not only bring the best out of him but to allow him to develop year on year is a much bigger feat than what Pulis did with Matty or Jermaine.
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Jul 23, 2017 20:49:18 GMT
But not as well as Pulis did with Pennant and Etherington. End of story, stick that in your pipe and smoke it. Personally, to take a player who hasn't played in English football before, give him a fresh opportunity at the highest level, man manage him accordingly and not only bring the best out of him but to allow him to develop year on year is a much bigger feat than what Pulis did with Matty or Jermaine. Or two players one that was hung out to dry and one that had a gambling addiction, looking like he was at the end of his career, joining up with a newly promoted team and managing to get to an FA cup final. What did Arnie ever do here apart from waste chances by being selfish and stropping around the place. He will never compare to Etherington and Pennant and I never thought I would say that but that's all down to Pulis's fantastic work with them.
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Post by Block 22 on Jul 23, 2017 20:51:04 GMT
Personally, to take a player who hasn't played in English football before, give him a fresh opportunity at the highest level, man manage him accordingly and not only bring the best out of him but to allow him to develop year on year is a much bigger feat than what Pulis did with Matty or Jermaine. Or two players one that was hung out to dry and one that had a gambling addiction, looking like he was at the end of his career, joining up with a newly promoted team and managing to get to an FA cup final. What did Arnie ever do here apart from waste chances by being selfish and stropping around the place. He will never compare to Etherington and Pennant and I never thought I would say that but that's all down to Pulis's fantastic work with them. If it's your honest opinion that Etherington and Pennant were even half as good as Arnie then we'll end this debate here. They're not even in the same stratosphere.
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Jul 23, 2017 20:53:15 GMT
Or two players one that was hung out to dry and one that had a gambling addiction, looking like he was at the end of his career, joining up with a newly promoted team and managing to get to an FA cup final. What did Arnie ever do here apart from waste chances by being selfish and stropping around the place. He will never compare to Etherington and Pennant and I never thought I would say that but that's all down to Pulis's fantastic work with them. If it's your honest opinion that Etherington and Pennant were even half as good as Arnie then we'll end this debate here. They're not even in the same stratosphere. They performed better and made us a better team. Arnie is a great player, but I don't think he has really helped us as a team, just an individualist.
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Post by essexstokey on Jul 23, 2017 21:29:47 GMT
ok start getting ready for his return tons of printed off money waved at him and snakes might do start photocopying monopoly money now Latest pic of arnie
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