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Post by prettything on Feb 22, 2019 21:04:45 GMT
We won’t flourish with a no deal. With a no deal, tariffs would be implemented. The price of food imported will go up, which means the cost of living would go up, whilst foreign investment will stall, due to it being more expensive to do business in this country. We're losing jobs, finance and companies at the moment. Christ knows what it's going to be like in a few months time. Worse We’ve gone from the top performering economy in the G7 to the worst, since the vote. The value of the pound has lost 14 percent, also. Much worse.
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Post by prettything on Feb 22, 2019 21:06:44 GMT
We won’t flourish with a no deal. With a no deal, tariffs would be implemented. The price of food imported will go up, which means the cost of living would go up, whilst foreign investment will stall, due to it being more expensive to do business in this country. Looks like you’re believing the scaremongers No. Simple facts. We go out with no deal, we have WTO rules, which means tariffs . That means, we have to pay, around 8 or 9 percent on our imports. Which will make these goods are more expensive.
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Post by pearo on Feb 22, 2019 21:35:08 GMT
Looks like you’re believing the scaremongers No. Simple facts. We go out with no deal, we have WTO rules, which means tariffs . That means, we have to pay, around 8 or 9 percent on our imports. Which will make these goods more expensive. But like most Remainers you are mainly concerned with your own personal financial position, Brexit isn’t about wealth or money, it’s about having the ability to be free from the sanctimonious jurisdiction of a body that are happy to take for themselves and are unanswerable to anyone.
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Post by prettything on Feb 22, 2019 21:41:29 GMT
Its very dangerous to put anyone in a certain box.
We are all the same. Both from Stoke , and both want the best for ourselves, friends and family.
I’m willing to go along with the EU in the short term if it means a worse future with a no deal. The risks are too great.
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Post by numpty40 on Feb 22, 2019 21:52:41 GMT
We won’t flourish with a no deal. With a no deal, tariffs would be implemented. The price of food imported will go up, which means the cost of living would go up, whilst foreign investment will stall, due to it being more expensive to do business in this country. We're losing jobs, finance and companies at the moment. Christ knows what it's going to be like in a few months time. It could be worse, we could still be in the EU www.bbc.com/news/topics/c207p54ml4gt/europe-economy
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Post by Clayton Wood on Feb 22, 2019 21:53:29 GMT
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Post by prettything on Feb 22, 2019 22:02:06 GMT
Its very dangerous to put anyone in a certain box. We are all the same. Both from Stoke , and both want the best for ourselves, friends and family. I’m willing to go along with the EU in the short term if it means a worse future with a no deal. The risks are too great. We trade tariff free with them. What’s your point?
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Post by Clayton Wood on Feb 22, 2019 22:08:46 GMT
Its very dangerous to put anyone in a certain box. We are all the same. Both from Stoke , and both want the best for ourselves, friends and family. I’m willing to go along with the EU in the short term if it means a worse future with a no deal. The risks are too great. We trade tariff free with them. What’s your point? Why are you arguing with yourself?
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Post by numpty40 on Feb 22, 2019 22:13:19 GMT
We trade tariff free with them. What’s your point? Why are you arguing with yourself? And they think we didn't know what we were voting for
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Post by prettything on Feb 22, 2019 22:23:14 GMT
We trade tariff free with them. What’s your point? Why are you arguing with yourself? ?
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Post by oggyoggy on Feb 22, 2019 22:44:07 GMT
If you even have to ask that question, you have obviously bought into the BBC, Sky News et al mass media Brexit Crisis scenario. Just one point for you to answer, there are over 10,000 unelected members of the EU that have an annual salary in excess of £50,000 more than any of our democratically elected MPs. Where do the EU raise this revenue from? You do know civil servants here aren’t elected either, right? And we have far more than the EU does, that’s for certain. We also have far, far more unelected law makers (which is what actually matters) than the EU. The EU has 28 unelected law makers, each chosen by the PM (or equivalent) of each member state. We have over 650.
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Feb 22, 2019 23:15:57 GMT
Brexit's bearing an uncanny resemblance to Stoke's season - supposed to make great deals but actually signing up rubbish , selling assets for peanuts , constantly on the defensive when supposed to be sweeping to stylish victories, poor management with a lack of direction, players not following the club rules, supporters unhappy, supposed to be top of the league but struggling to avoid a relegation scrap, and a lot of discussion about difficult Irish issues.
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Post by numpty40 on Feb 22, 2019 23:19:30 GMT
If you even have to ask that question, you have obviously bought into the BBC, Sky News et al mass media Brexit Crisis scenario. Just one point for you to answer, there are over 10,000 unelected members of the EU that have an annual salary in excess of £50,000 more than any of our democratically elected MPs. Where do the EU raise this revenue from? You do know civil servants here aren’t elected either, right? And we have far more than the EU does, that’s for certain. We also have far, far more unelected law makers (which is what actually matters) than the EU. The EU has 28 unelected law makers, each chosen by the PM (or equivalent) of each member state. We have over 650. www.europeanlawmonitor.org/eu-legislative-procedures/who-is-involved-in-making-european-laws.htmlLooks a bit more than 28 to me
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Post by numpty40 on Feb 22, 2019 23:30:33 GMT
Brexit's bearing an uncanny resemblance to Stoke's season - supposed to make great deals but actually signing up rubbish , selling assets for peanuts , constantly on the defensive when supposed to be sweeping to stylish victories, poor management with a lack of direction, players not following the club rules, supporters unhappy, supposed to be top of the league but struggling to avoid a relegation scrap, and a lot of discussion about difficult Irish issues. Maybe there is an analogy for the likes of Italy and Greece? Darlington, Chester City?
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 23, 2019 11:16:15 GMT
Some ordinary thick working class people.
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Post by pearo on Feb 23, 2019 11:26:28 GMT
If you even have to ask that question, you have obviously bought into the BBC, Sky News et al mass media Brexit Crisis scenario. Just one point for you to answer, there are over 10,000 unelected members of the EU that have an annual salary in excess of £50,000 more than any of our democratically elected MPs. Where do the EU raise this revenue from? You do know civil servants here aren’t elected either, right? And we have far more than the EU does, that’s for certain. We also have far, far more unelected law makers (which is what actually matters) than the EU. The EU has 28 unelected law makers, each chosen by the PM (or equivalent) of each member state. We have over 650. Our civil servants like all public sector staff are paid for from money raised by the UK Government through taxes, where do the EU generate their income from?
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Post by oggyoggy on Feb 23, 2019 12:00:14 GMT
Does it? Why? It is the European Parliament, Council and Commission. The European Parliament is made up of elected MEPs. The European Council is made up of elected heads of state (May, Merkel, Macron etc) and the European Commission is made up of 28 members selected by the heads of state for each member state. They are the only unelected ones.
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Post by oggyoggy on Feb 23, 2019 12:05:58 GMT
You do know civil servants here aren’t elected either, right? And we have far more than the EU does, that’s for certain. We also have far, far more unelected law makers (which is what actually matters) than the EU. The EU has 28 unelected law makers, each chosen by the PM (or equivalent) of each member state. We have over 650. Our civil servants like all public sector staff are paid for from money raised by the UK Government through taxes, where do the EU generate their income from? Their budget. Where do you think? There are 751 elected MEPs, 28 elected heads of state and 28 unelected commissioners involved in EU law making. 28/751 are unelected, 3.7%. But that is apparently undemocratic according to leave voters! Here we have 650 elected mps, 1 unelected queen and 800 unelected peers. 801/1451 are unelected or over 55%. Which is more democratic???
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 23, 2019 12:34:09 GMT
Our civil servants like all public sector staff are paid for from money raised by the UK Government through taxes, where do the EU generate their income from? Their budget. Where do you think? There are 751 elected MEPs, 28 elected heads of state and 28 unelected commissioners involved in EU law making. 28/751 are unelected, 3.7%. But that is apparently undemocratic according to leave voters! Here we have 650 elected mps, 1 unelected queen and 800 unelected peers. 801/1451 are unelected or over 55%. Which is more democratic??? The EU is a pseudo Parliament Oggy, not scrutinising and legislative. The power lies with Merkel and then through the unminuted Euro group. The UNOPPOSED mission of the Commission is introduce policies towards Ever Closer Union....which are never challenged. As you imply though it is very bureacratic and expensive.... particularly for a trading block.... perhaps it's trying to be a country? Do we need two Parliaments, court systems etc..... nicely paid work and lifestyle for those involved though. ( We've done all this before so I'll just leave you with Tony Benn, a man whose has been there and a believer in democracy ( and incidentally in referendra....you know asking people to decide on big, constitutional issues.... like giving your vote away))
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Feb 23, 2019 12:54:41 GMT
Their budget. Where do you think? There are 751 elected MEPs, 28 elected heads of state and 28 unelected commissioners involved in EU law making. 28/751 are unelected, 3.7%. But that is apparently undemocratic according to leave voters! Here we have 650 elected mps, 1 unelected queen and 800 unelected peers. 801/1451 are unelected or over 55%. Which is more democratic??? The EU is a pseudo Parliament Oggy, not scrutinising and legislative. The power lies with Merkel and then through the unminuted Euro group. The UNOPPOSED mission of the Commission is introduce policies towards Ever Closer Union....which are never challenged. As you imply though it is very bureacratic and expensive.... particularly for a trading block.... perhaps it's trying to be a country? Do we need two Parliaments, court systems etc..... nicely paid work and lifestyle for those involved though. ( We've done all this before so I'll just leave you with Tony Benn, a man whose has been there and a believer in democracy ( and incidentally in referendra....you know asking people to decide on big, constitutional issues.... like giving your vote away)) Do you know what percentage of legislation is rejected by the EU Parliament? I can't find the statistics.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 23, 2019 13:10:29 GMT
The EU is a pseudo Parliament Oggy, not scrutinising and legislative. The power lies with Merkel and then through the unminuted Euro group. The UNOPPOSED mission of the Commission is introduce policies towards Ever Closer Union....which are never challenged. As you imply though it is very bureacratic and expensive.... particularly for a trading block.... perhaps it's trying to be a country? Do we need two Parliaments, court systems etc..... nicely paid work and lifestyle for those involved though. ( We've done all this before so I'll just leave you with Tony Benn, a man whose has been there and a believer in democracy ( and incidentally in referendra....you know asking people to decide on big, constitutional issues.... like giving your vote away)) Do you know what percentage of legislation is rejected by the EU Parliament? I can't find the statistics. My guess is none... when I have been there I immediately get the impression ( and the reality) of a self congratulatory club. It just isn't and isn't meant to be like our understanding of " Parliament". It's a talking shop which at best is a way that " everyone" is made aware of what's been decided and the intended direction of travel....the only challenge is from people like Farage and is group. Part of the reason that the " EU" is enjoying laughing at us is because they know that they no need go through this level of scrutiny and challenge to get their policies through ( the main one being based upon Ever Closer Union of course). Having experienced a different history from ours what they have in the EU seems preferable... not ostensibly a dictatorship..... although it is a totally top down system...." The man in the street's view is irrelevant.... they know best". Try to find me ANY footage in which ANY legislation is challenged in the EU Parliament in the way ours is ...and and particular connection between what they talk about AND comment by UK electorate
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Post by pearo on Feb 23, 2019 13:25:50 GMT
Our civil servants like all public sector staff are paid for from money raised by the UK Government through taxes, where do the EU generate their income from? Their budget. Where do you think? There are 751 elected MEPs, 28 elected heads of state and 28 unelected commissioners involved in EU law making. 28/751 are unelected, 3.7%. But that is apparently undemocratic according to leave voters! Here we have 650 elected mps, 1 unelected queen and 800 unelected peers. 801/1451 are unelected or over 55%. Which is more democratic??? You really don’t understand politics, history or finance do you. Have you ever had an original thought of your own?
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Post by bathstoke on Feb 23, 2019 13:49:28 GMT
Their budget. Where do you think? There are 751 elected MEPs, 28 elected heads of state and 28 unelected commissioners involved in EU law making. 28/751 are unelected, 3.7%. But that is apparently undemocratic according to leave voters! Here we have 650 elected mps, 1 unelected queen and 800 unelected peers. 801/1451 are unelected or over 55%. Which is more democratic??? You really don’t understand politics, history or finance do you. Have you ever had an original thought of your own? The skeleton is in the closet, but the ghost roams free 💀👻
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Post by desman2 on Feb 23, 2019 14:02:19 GMT
Our civil servants like all public sector staff are paid for from money raised by the UK Government through taxes, where do the EU generate their income from? Their budget. Where do you think? There are 751 elected MEPs, 28 elected heads of state and 28 unelected commissioners involved in EU law making. 28/751 are unelected, 3.7%. But that is apparently undemocratic according to leave voters! Here we have 650 elected mps, 1 unelected queen and 800 unelected peers. 801/1451 are unelected or over 55%. Which is more democratic??? The 751 mep's do not have the authority to change laws imposed by the commission or initiate legislation. It either accepts or can try to compromise on laws etc that the council puts forward.. The 28 Headfs of State have no authority to change laws or regulations imposed by the commission. They can advise or offer amendments but in itself can not initiate and pass legislation or change it at national level. The 28 unelected commissioners have the say and ride the most lucrative gravy train on the planet. Here we have 650 elected mp's who have the absolute authority on legislation. 800 unelected peers can advise and try to amend but the final say is the elected parliament. The Queen is apolitical and only signs Royal Ascent to passed legislation, whichever party is in government. So its clear that national parliaments are more democratic than the gravy train
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Feb 23, 2019 14:05:31 GMT
Do you know what percentage of legislation is rejected by the EU Parliament? I can't find the statistics. My guess is none... when I have been there I immediately get the impression ( and the reality) of a self congratulatory club. It just isn't and isn't meant to be like our understanding of " Parliament". It's a talking shop which at best is a way that " everyone" is made aware of what's been decided and the intended direction of travel....the only challenge is from people like Farage and is group. Part of the reason that the " EU" is enjoying laughing at us is because they know that they no need go through this level of scrutiny and challenge to get their policies through ( the main one being based upon Ever Closer Union of course). Having experienced a different history from ours what they have in the EU seems preferable... not ostensibly a dictatorship..... although it is a totally top down system...." The man in the street's view is irrelevant.... they know best". Try to find me ANY footage in which ANY legislation is challenged in the EU Parliament in the way ours is ...and and particular connection between what they talk about AND comment by UK electorate It's certainly not zero, as in trying to find the statistics the story about the EU Parliament rejecting copyright laws kept coming up: www.bbc.com/news/technology-44712475As to what the actual statistics are, I don't know as I can't find any.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 23, 2019 15:11:07 GMT
My guess is none... when I have been there I immediately get the impression ( and the reality) of a self congratulatory club. It just isn't and isn't meant to be like our understanding of " Parliament". It's a talking shop which at best is a way that " everyone" is made aware of what's been decided and the intended direction of travel....the only challenge is from people like Farage and is group. Part of the reason that the " EU" is enjoying laughing at us is because they know that they no need go through this level of scrutiny and challenge to get their policies through ( the main one being based upon Ever Closer Union of course). Having experienced a different history from ours what they have in the EU seems preferable... not ostensibly a dictatorship..... although it is a totally top down system...." The man in the street's view is irrelevant.... they know best". Try to find me ANY footage in which ANY legislation is challenged in the EU Parliament in the way ours is ...and and particular connection between what they talk about AND comment by UK electorate It's certainly not zero, as in trying to find the statistics the story about the EU Parliament rejecting copyright laws kept coming up: www.bbc.com/news/technology-44712475As to what the actual statistics are, I don't know as I can't find any. It's a complete ly different concept from our Parliament... have a listen to Tony, video above
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Feb 23, 2019 15:59:56 GMT
It's certainly not zero, as in trying to find the statistics the story about the EU Parliament rejecting copyright laws kept coming up: www.bbc.com/news/technology-44712475As to what the actual statistics are, I don't know as I can't find any. It's a complete ly different concept from our Parliament... have a listen to Tony, video above That's why I was looking for the statistics, to see how it compares to our system in terms of legislation being rejected and/or amended. I couldn't find the statistics for either though.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 23, 2019 16:30:41 GMT
It's a complete ly different concept from our Parliament... have a listen to Tony, video above That's why I was looking for the statistics, to see how it compares to our system in terms of legislation being rejected and/or amended. I couldn't find the statistics for either though. The point is Rip, irrespective of whether legislation is rejected, 4 it is just NOT debated, scrutinised in the way the UK Parliament operates.....look at the passage of the Brexit legislation 2 There is a general concensus in what they are trying to do 1 Legislation is top down 3 The UK population will never relate to Brussels.... we'd prefer independence and Sovereignty....we can just about relate to our current UK system. 6 There is no number 5
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Feb 23, 2019 17:59:55 GMT
That's why I was looking for the statistics, to see how it compares to our system in terms of legislation being rejected and/or amended. I couldn't find the statistics for either though. The point is Rip, irrespective of whether legislation is rejected, 4 it is just NOT debated, scrutinised in the way the UK Parliament operates.....look at the passage of the Brexit legislation 2 There is a general concensus in what they are trying to do 1 Legislation is top down 3 The UK population will never relate to Brussels.... we'd prefer independence and Sovereignty....we can just about relate to our current UK system. 6 There is no number 5 Looking only at the the parliamentary process, it seems to function in a pretty similar way to the UK Parliament as far as I can tell - legislation is present, debated, then voted on.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 23, 2019 18:06:56 GMT
The point is Rip, irrespective of whether legislation is rejected, 4 it is just NOT debated, scrutinised in the way the UK Parliament operates.....look at the passage of the Brexit legislation 2 There is a general concensus in what they are trying to do 1 Legislation is top down 3 The UK population will never relate to Brussels.... we'd prefer independence and Sovereignty....we can just about relate to our current UK system. 6 There is no number 5 Looking only at the the parliamentary process, it seems to function in a pretty similar way to the UK Parliament as far as I can tell - legislation is present, debated, then voted on. Not at all, it doesn't function in the same way at all. Not adverserial, no prime minister, concensus, not meant to be the same as ours.listenn says , he's been just because it's called a Parliament does not mean it is the same as ours ... just like a Withdrawal bill may not mean that we withdraw
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