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Post by followyoudown on Jan 11, 2019 13:06:31 GMT
I found that to be a bit of an eye opener tbh. I was fully expecting them to be thumping the table for a second referendum but they seem to have a true grasp on the situation and the democratic "once in a lifetime" vote taken in June 2016 - good for them ! I wonder how representative that is of the view of young people across the country ? Also, Channel 4 admitted they stacked the audience 66-33 in favour of Remain to "represent" that age group. That's strange on the stop brexit march he said 700k people yet there was only 200k, now he is bull$shitting about a debate time split, all from a guy who says leave politicians lied and won't explain how he is himself funded. |
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Post by yeokel on Jan 11, 2019 13:16:20 GMT
“Spelling was never my strong point” I agree, you do seem to have a problem with accuracy which I’ve queried with you a few times recently but not received any response from you. But you did, at least, respond to ‘insults’ as you call them or ‘gentle goading’ as I thought of them. Here are two or three of examples for you… I’ve been quite hurt that you’ve been ignoring me and am glad to see we are on chatting terms again now. Well I apologise you feel I have ignored you! To be honest (and I am sure you can imagine) I get a lot of people replying to my posts and I do not always have time to respond to each and every one. I shall now respond to yours above though: The standard VAT on energy is 20% for businesses, 5% for domestic. See this: www.inprovaenergy.com/blog/are-you-paying-the-right-amount-of-vat-on-your-electricity-and-gas-billsJust because some businesses can reclaim VAT, it doesn't change the fact that the standard VAT rate for businesses is 20%. The lib dems formed a coalition government with the disgusting Tories and mitigated their damage to the country. Let's look at a few coalition policies: Gay marriage - that was a lib dem policy SEIS and EIS tax relief - lib dem policy Increase the personal allowance - lib dem policy Apprenticeship investments - lib dem policy Pupil premium in schools - lib dem policy Shared parental leave - lib dem policy those are just from the top of my head. All those would not have happened if the lib dems were not part of the coalition. The tories took the credit for it obviously and shafted the lib dems. The lib dems are remembered for the tory policy of increasing tuition fees. And finally, yes the EU has changed a lot over the years. Some things are good, some are bad. It is not the same from the original vote at all. Of course not. A lot has changed in the world since then and it is a far more globalised world. But leaving the EU will not sort out our domestic problems. It will worsen them. Has that satisfied you Yeokel?? Thank you for satisfying me, Oggy. |
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Post by pearo on Jan 11, 2019 13:27:03 GMT
Dominic Grieve says “ It is the duty of MP’s to stop the nation from committing national suicide”
I think you will find Mr. Grieve it is the duty of MP’s to represent their constituents and to honour the democratically returned vote on the referendum.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2019 13:49:18 GMT
Dominic Grieve says “ It is the duty of MP’s to stop the nation from committing national suicide” I think you will find Mr. Grieve it is the duty of MP’s to represent their constiuents and to honour the democratically returned vote on the referendum. Totally agree - they're a complete bunch of sh*ts aren't they ? Grieve's own constituency (Beaconsfield) narrowly voted to Leave (50.2%) yet he is one of the main Remain voices. He knows he's pretty safe though as he had a majority of around 20,000 at the last General Election. Soubry's constituency (Broxtowe) had a Leave vote of 56%, yet her GE majority was only 863, so she's risking far more with her stance on Brexit. |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Jan 11, 2019 14:45:43 GMT
Dominic Grieve says “ It is the duty of MP’s to stop the nation from committing national suicide” I think you will find Mr. Grieve it is the duty of MP’s to represent their constiuents and to honour the democratically returned vote on the referendum. Totally agree - they're a complete bunch of sh*ts aren't they ? Grieve's own constituency (Beaconsfield) narrowly voted to Leave (50.2%) yet he is one of the main Remain voices. He knows he's pretty safe though as he had a majority of around 20,000 at the last General Election. Soubry's constituency had a Leave vote of 56%, yet her GE majority was only 863, so she's risking far more with her stance on Brexit. If there is the groundswell of people believing that the Brexit vote has already been betrayed, we'll find out at the next election. Be interesting to see the results for MPs in Leave constituencies who are campaigning against May's deal and no deal, and also the results of those MPs that are the main faces of the Brexit campaign within the Conservative Party. |
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Post by Davef on Jan 11, 2019 15:04:27 GMT
Dominic Grieve says “ It is the duty of MP’s to stop the nation from committing national suicide” I think you will find Mr. Grieve it is the duty of MP’s to represent their constiuents and to honour the democratically returned vote on the referendum. Who was responsible for handing the nation the rope? |
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Post by Northy on Jan 11, 2019 17:02:58 GMT
Here's my MP being true to her word
Check out @esthermcvey1’s Tweet:
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 11, 2019 17:34:10 GMT
Here's my MP being true to her word Check out @esthermcvey1’s Tweet: In my opinion she simply speaks Common sense. A genuine approach if you want to do the best for the UK is to prepare for all eventualities. That's where the energy and the money should have gone.And it should have been done honestly and openly from day one. Instead we have had a group of people and Parliatarians who have behaved deceitfully and in an underhand way clearly to prevent Brexit, they have lied and even collaborated with those with whom we are negotiating , against the interest of the country. They simply have disregarded democracy and shown contempt for the electorate, behaved dishonourably....so much so that the very democracy on which the country is built upon is now under threat...who knows where that will lead. Arrogant and a disgrace to hold the position of MP |
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Post by oggyoggy on Jan 11, 2019 17:57:38 GMT
That’s a tricky one. I would do something like this in 2 stages: 1. Leave or Remain. 2. If a majority vote to Leave in answer to Q1, should we: A) Leave with no deal; or B) Leave with May’s deal If May’s deal is voted down, we could change to one question which is remain or leave woth no deal. Or if there is a plan B option, insert that in to 2B above weve already had the vote for number 1, don't you remember  Yes. I had a choice of many political parties at the last election. The tories won in ny area. Presumably you think labour, the lib dems and anyone else who stood against the tories should be unable to ever stand again at another election? |
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Post by oggyoggy on Jan 11, 2019 17:59:40 GMT
Dominic Grieve says “ It is the duty of MP’s to stop the nation from committing national suicide” I think you will find Mr. Grieve it is the duty of MP’s to represent their constiuents and to honour the democratically returned vote on the referendum. No, I think you’ll find that in a parliamentary democracy the people elect representatives who then do what they want to do until the next vote, when the people get to judge that MP’s performance in the ballot box. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Jan 11, 2019 18:01:00 GMT
Here's my MP being true to her word Check out @esthermcvey1’s Tweet: Does that mean the government are preparing for a second referendum then!? |
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Post by oggyoggy on Jan 11, 2019 18:02:32 GMT
That’s a tricky one. I would do something like this in 2 stages: 1. Leave or Remain. 2. If a majority vote to Leave in answer to Q1, should we: A) Leave with no deal; or B) Leave with May’s deal If May’s deal is voted down, we could change to one question which is remain or leave woth no deal. Or if there is a plan B option, insert that in to 2B above We've had a People's vote and the people voted to Leave. The question and the meaning of leave was made clear and is clear. A deal is a different issue, simply s mechanism in this context to thwart Leave If what you say is true, why on earth are we negotiating with the EU. The deal was in place (or at least the heads of terms) and on all our ballot papers...... Please share with us and the government what the leave vote was for ad there doesn’t even need to be a brexit debate in the Commons. |
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Post by wagsastokie on Jan 11, 2019 18:13:50 GMT
weve already had the vote for number 1, don't you remember Yes. I had a choice of many political parties at the last election. The tories won in ny area. Presumably you think labour, the lib dems and anyone else who stood against the tories should be unable to ever stand again at another election? Well at least you’re fellow constituents have some sense |
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Post by pearo on Jan 11, 2019 18:28:15 GMT
Dominic Grieve says “ It is the duty of MP’s to stop the nation from committing national suicide” I think you will find Mr. Grieve it is the duty of MP’s to represent their constiuents and to honour the democratically returned vote on the referendum. No, I think you’ll find that in a parliamentary democracy the people elect representatives who then do what they want to do until the next vote, when the people get to judge that MP’s performance in the ballot box. You are failing to differentiate between a general election( held on a regular basis ) and, as stated by the PM at the time, a once in a lifetime vote. The duty of MP’s is to represent the outcome of these two entirely different votes at their face value. Sadly most MP’s believe they know how the public should have voted and are unable to believe how the public actually voted. As Harry Enfield once said in his EU character “ Simple peeps “ |
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Post by Kilo on Jan 11, 2019 18:30:07 GMT
Dominic Grieve says “ It is the duty of MP’s to stop the nation from committing national suicide” I think you will find Mr. Grieve it is the duty of MP’s to represent their constiuents and to honour the democratically returned vote on the referendum. No, I think you’ll find that in a parliamentary democracy the people elect representatives who then do what they want to do until the next vote, when the people get to judge that MP’s performance in the ballot box. You've clearly lost the plot! As a lawyer, you represent your client and take instruction from him - you don't just do what the hell you want and the complete opposite of what your client wanted just becasue you think you know better. It's no different for a politician, they represent their constituents.
Adolf Hitler got voted in and then did exactly what he wanted - didn't turn out well for him and it wasn't democracy.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 11, 2019 18:55:49 GMT
We've had a People's vote and the people voted to Leave. The question and the meaning of leave was made clear and is clear. A deal is a different issue, simply s mechanism in this context to thwart Leave If what you say is true, why on earth are we negotiating with the EU. The deal was in place (or at least the heads of terms) and on all our ballot papers...... Please share with us and the government what the leave vote was for ad there doesn’t even need to be a brexit debate in the Commons. Oggy The result of vote was to leave the EU . The meaning of " Leave" was made clear and is clear. What's happening now and in Parliament are attempts to undermine Brexit and disregard democracy....by those who don't like not getting their own way. A " deal" is a separate issue but part of the strategy to thwart Brexit....ie trying to convince people that a deal is the same as leave. It's simple really |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 11, 2019 18:59:41 GMT
We've had a People's vote and the people voted to Leave. The question and the meaning of leave was made clear and is clear. A deal is a different issue, simply s mechanism in this context to thwart Leave If what you say is true, why on earth are we negotiating with the EU. The deal was in place (or at least the heads of terms) and on all our ballot papers...... Please share with us and the government what the leave vote was for ad there doesn’t even need to be a brexit debate in the Commons. Oggy The result of vote was to leave the EU . The meaning of " Leave" was made clear and is clear. What's happening now and in Parliament are attempts to undermine Brexit and disregard democracy....by those who don't like getting their own way. A " deal" is a separate issue but part of the strategy to thwart Brexit....ie trying to convince people that a deal is the same as leave. It's simple really |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Jan 11, 2019 19:25:28 GMT
If what you say is true, why on earth are we negotiating with the EU. The deal was in place (or at least the heads of terms) and on all our ballot papers...... Please share with us and the government what the leave vote was for ad there doesn’t even need to be a brexit debate in the Commons. Oggy The result of vote was to leave the EU . The meaning of " Leave" was made clear and is clear. What's happening now and in Parliament are attempts to undermine Brexit and disregard democracy....by those who don't like getting their own way. A " deal" is a separate issue but part of the strategy to thwart Brexit....ie trying to convince people that a deal is the same as leave. It's simple really The meaning of Leave was made over and over again by Nigel Farage when he kept going on about Norway being a great precedence to follow. So lets sort this Norwegian-style deal out and crack on with it, then everyone's happy. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 11, 2019 19:51:03 GMT
Oggy The result of vote was to leave the EU . The meaning of " Leave" was made clear and is clear. What's happening now and in Parliament are attempts to undermine Brexit and disregard democracy....by those who don't like getting their own way. A " deal" is a separate issue but part of the strategy to thwart Brexit....ie trying to convince people that a deal is the same as leave. It's simple really The meaning of Leave was made over and over again by Nigel Farage when he kept going on about Norway being a great precedence to follow. So lets sort this Norwegian-style deal out and crack on with it, then everyone's happy. He didn't actually say that but never mind. It was simply a selective part of an interview that has been well discredited. You've proved my point. If you want to believe lies it's up to you, keep going ..it just keeps proving the argument for Brexit. |
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shimmer
Academy Starlet
Posts: 244
Location: Middle Earth
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Post by shimmer on Jan 11, 2019 20:50:23 GMT
I fear it my now look to further a divide in class with the capitalists ruling, but lets hope there are many more jobs created in the UK, major problem is many will also be lost. Lets hope it ends up net positive for the economy.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Jan 12, 2019 0:24:44 GMT
The meaning of Leave was made over and over again by Nigel Farage when he kept going on about Norway being a great precedence to follow. So lets sort this Norwegian-style deal out and crack on with it, then everyone's happy. He didn't actually say that but never mind. It was simply a selective part of an interview that has been well discredited. You've proved my point. If you want to believe lies it's up to you, keep going ..it just keeps proving the argument for Brexit. So how many of these Nigel Farage clips have been proven to be "lies"? If you want to keep dismissing things that are right in front of your face, keep going. It only proves the point that this whole "there's only one real Brexit" is horseshit. |
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Post by starkiller on Jan 12, 2019 1:40:17 GMT
weve already had the vote for number 1, don't you remember Yes. I had a choice of many political parties at the last election. The tories won in ny area. Presumably you think labour, the lib dems and anyone else who stood against the tories should be unable to ever stand again at another election? It's a referendum, not a fixed term election. Do you understand? |
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Post by Northy on Jan 12, 2019 7:00:12 GMT
weve already had the vote for number 1, don't you remember Yes. I had a choice of many political parties at the last election. The tories won in ny area. Presumably you think labour, the lib dems and anyone else who stood against the tories should be unable to ever stand again at another election? Twisting things out of context again oggy |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2019 7:05:22 GMT
Yes. I had a choice of many political parties at the last election. The tories won in ny area. Presumably you think labour, the lib dems and anyone else who stood against the tories should be unable to ever stand again at another election? Twisting things out of context again oggy He's been trotting out the same argument for two and a half years now - he just can't (doesn't want to) grasp the difference between a referendum and a General Election. |
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Post by felonious on Jan 12, 2019 7:23:57 GMT
If what you say is true, why on earth are we negotiating with the EU. The deal was in place (or at least the heads of terms) and on all our ballot papers...... Please share with us and the government what the leave vote was for ad there doesn’t even need to be a brexit debate in the Commons. Oggy The result of vote was to leave the EU . The meaning of " Leave" was made clear and is clear. What's happening now and in Parliament are attempts to undermine Brexit and disregard democracy....by those who don't like not getting their own way. A " deal" is a separate issue but part of the strategy to thwart Brexit....ie trying to convince people that a deal is the same as leave. It's simple really It's much worse than that BJR. In 1975 the referendum went the way of the politicians and was implemented, the latest one didn't and we are seeing every effort made to ensure that it isn't implemented. It's a complete disregard for the voting public and completely undermines the democratic system that we have in the UK.
The ground is now being prepared for the "backlash" where everyone unhappy with the complete disregard of democracy by "serving" politicians will be labelled as a far right extremist.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46847169
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 12, 2019 8:06:32 GMT
He didn't actually say that but never mind. It was simply a selective part of an interview that has been well discredited. You've proved my point. If you want to believe lies it's up to you, keep going ..it just keeps proving the argument for Brexit. So how many of these Nigel Farage clips have been proven to be "lies"? If you want to keep dismissing things that are right in front of your face, keep going. It only proves the point that this whole "there's only one real Brexit" is horseshit. As I say if you don't understand that those clips are taken out of context in a propaganda video, bigger ( intentional) fool you. People aren't stupid. |
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Post by 3putts on Jan 12, 2019 8:44:16 GMT
Cameron and co fucked up the Brexit vote big time, we are now over 2 years down the line and no closer to finding a soloution.we will leave but theres no point shutting your eyes we are cutting ourselves adrift and forgot to pack the oars. but anyone who comments on this is just shouted down "project fear"
I call Brexit-project "turkeys voting for xmas"
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 12, 2019 8:46:05 GMT
I do believe that part of the EU plan is / would be to spread industry and development across the whole of the continent of Europe. Nothing wrong with that you might say. But I don't believe that the EU has the interests of the UK at heart and this equality might mean less opportunities for British people. I don't want that. I believe that their real priorities is the mainstream continent of Europe and we are seen as an " awkward member of the club, who are relatively rich and can afford to subsidise others" Also there had got to be trust over a wide area that everyone is playing by the same rules , when regulations and directives are imposed too down, from the centre..I'm not convinced that everyone does abide by the rules. As we are seeing with our own parliament, the political are devious in trying to get their own way, irrespective of the wishes of the population....i believe that blind trust in the EU politicians is a bit naïve. Although there may be accusations of Xenophobia ,I don't think so, more like realism , in that if you don't look after your own in this current climate, no one else will. www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/01/10/eu-rules-left-slovakia-free-entice-jaguar-land-rover-uk-110m/amp/?__twitter_impression=trueI was arguing (trying to educate the wife) last night over this Jaguar thing, about our subsidies to the EU and how they are used to take away British jobs, she jsut couldnt get that EU money isn't our money we give them, that they don't have this magic bottomless bank account for 'EU funded projects'. I was on about this Slovakia plant and she said ' well they should look after themselves, they are a poorer country, charity begins at home' Charity begins at home unles you are the UK I asked?  I agree Northy, Playing devil's advocate, if I was ' in charge' of the EU , apparently responsible for the well being and political decisions across the 28 " member states" ( used to be called " countries".... what happened there?) I would do exactly as they are doing............." Let's create a bit of industry and employment in the east of Europe, no need to worry about the UK, they are relatively rich, they have their financial services ( until they are forced to join the Euro) and they need to be put in their place in any case. It's better to have a successful East Europe strategically to keep the USSR at bay, until we destabilise Russia geographically up to the Volga". But , if I was a British MP who had my country's interests at heart I might fight for the location of industry in our country. The location of Toyota in Derby, and Nissan at Sunderland are not accidental, arguments and incentives had to be made. To give this sort of decision making away is madness. Mind you I would like to be able to make our own industrial and agricultural strategy based upon the needs of our own people....it's a new world with new Global opportunities and to be tied into decisions, not made in our interest, based upon a political project is foolhardy. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 12, 2019 9:09:27 GMT
I would be interested in Remain supporters views on this man's comments. Kerr, a very powerful man who sits in the House of Lords, and was responsible for drawing up Article 50. For me it exposes two things.....the power relationship between the EU and the UK ( and each " member state" actually) and the complete disdain for any possible democracy or opinion from the people of those " member states"...."you can't decide anything, do as you are told"
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2019 9:43:58 GMT
So how many of these Nigel Farage clips have been proven to be "lies"? If you want to keep dismissing things that are right in front of your face, keep going. It only proves the point that this whole "there's only one real Brexit" is horseshit. As I say if you don't understand that those clips are taken out of context in a propaganda video, bigger ( intentional) fool you. People aren't stupid. Oh he understands John......as you say, it’s intentional |
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